Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

SamHall

SamHall wrote: »

Lol. Do you think the property tax is the tax I'm referring to

Hint: (that's not even due until July) you're truly a naive one M.A.

Sorry, Sam. I thought this topic was about the property tax. As I'm not a mindreader, I'm afraid I've no idea what you're on about. Maybe you could clarify? Try plain simple english, as I'm a bit thick and don't understand waffle.

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, Sam. I thought this topic was about the property tax. As I'm not a mindreader, I'm afraid I've no idea what you're on about. Maybe you could clarify? Try plain simple english, as I'm a bit thick and don't understand waffle.

No need to put yourself down M.A.

Let's see how this confusion arose so.

Vladimir said:

The only people being shafted by those who dodge paying taxes are other tax payers, not the government.

Taxes. Taxes come in a many different guises M.A.

I replied to that post with:

Which makes it all the more sickening when govt councillors, senators and ministers don't pay theirs.

I'm sure with all the recent publicity surrounding various councillors, Senators and TD's with 'issues' they may be having with tax/fare avoidance etc, you are aware of what I was referring to?

If not, please come back and let me know and I'll gladly post quotes and provide links from various news sources outlining the ministers, senators and councillors I'm referring to, and what taxes they had been 'evading'.

All cleared up now?

cageyeuclid

"Over 250,000 have paid up already, so I don't see mass resistance"

Aren't 125.000 of these Public Housing like Dublin City Council housing??

In the case of The Household Charge paid, Dublin City Council was included in the compliance.

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

Over 250,000 have paid up already, so I don't see mass resistance.

And the source of this statement is?

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

So, You WILL pay with penalties and interest. And you WILL pay whatever similar tax a new Government may be minded to bring in?

What is the point of your posts? You will pay one way or another!

Careful Sam, Joan is throwing her toys out of the pram and making bold rash unfounded statements above.

All this nonsense about this LPT....I saw on Euronews the other day where Portugal is DROPPING their LPT to try and stimulate their economy. And before anyone asks me for proof, I can't find it...only hope someone else saw that report.

Le_Dieux

Phoebas wrote: »

You'll get your chance at the next election. In the meantime you need to pay your taxes.

Says who, Phoebas? DVpower or Mick noonan, or BFP?

Sadly, there are too many people in this country who have 2 missions in life...to lie, and decieve. Alas, sometimes they are on a double mission, and I believe people coming on here mouthing off in support of the government are of this ilk.

The government here want the economy to grow..I think we ALL agree on that, but how the hell can it when the same government go aorund taking more and more money out of the economy? I had a stall at a fair yesterday. I drove 80kms to this fair, stood all day, and sold €2...honest! I asked other stall holders at this fair ( it was in a shopping centre 80kms or so from Newbridge) about how their day went, every single one of them echoed how bad the footfall was. This government are destroying everything economically in this country. I do accept they didn't start the ball rolling, but they ARE pushing that ball along down the very slippery slope!

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

All this nonsense about this LPT....I saw on Euronews the other day where Portugal is DROPPING their LPT to try and stimulate their economy. And before anyone asks me for proof, I can't find it...only hope someone else saw that report.

Portugal aren't dropping their property tax - the reason you can't find the evidence is because it isn't happening.

They were introducing some tax breaks on intellectual property. Maybe you misheard?

flutered

if the goverment removed below cost selling of alcahol my the muntibles, it would yeild many times the amount of the house hold charge, but then that would never do no would it.

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

And the source of this statement is?

Revenue press release puts the number of returns at 332500
http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/2013/pr-300413-local-property-tax.html

Le_Dieux

Phoebas wrote: »

Portugal aren't dropping their property tax - the reason you can't find the evidence is because it isn't happening.

They were introducing some tax breaks on intellectual property. Maybe you misheard?

How do YOU know? What source do YOU have to make that statement? I KNOW what I saw and heard on Euronews.....

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Sadly, there are too many people in this country who have 2 missions in life...to lie, and decieve. Alas, sometimes they are on a double mission, and I believe people coming on here mouthing off in support of the government are of this ilk.

I'm not trying to lie or deceive. I'm pretty certain that you'll get your chance to reject the current government at the next election.
Whether or not there is going to be a viable alternative choice available that will repeal the property tax is another question. Personally I doubt it.

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

How do YOU know? What source do YOU have to make that statement? I KNOW what I saw and heard on Euronews.....

I did a Google search on the topic (and a site search on Euronews) and it returned nothing.

I think if Portugal were dropping their property tax it might have been reported online by some news outlet somewhere on the planet. A more likely explanation is that you misheard. Confirmation bias maybe?

Le_Dieux

Phoebas wrote: »

I did a Google search on the topic (and a site search on Euronews) and it returned nothing.

I think if Portugal were dropping their property tax it might have been reported online by some news outlet somewhere on the planet. A more likely explanation is that you misheard. Confirmation bias maybe?

You are entitled to Your thinking..I know what I heard.

But anyhow, I'm not going to get into a slanging match with you under any circumstances as I am only back from a ban on AH over this very topic, & I do not want to be silenced anymore over my hot-headedness ( which I do admit to:cool: ).

Le_Dieux

Phoebas wrote: »

Revenue press release puts the number of returns at 332500
http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/2013/pr-300413-local-property-tax.html[/QUOTE]

REVENUE press release. Duh, are they spinners of the truth or not? Sadly, I agree with you though, it's all we have t og on. I know one thing, I won't be believing them.

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

REVENUE press release. Duh, are they spinners of the truth or not? Sadly, I agree with you though, it's all we have t og on. I know one thing, I won't be believing them.

I have to wonder why you asked for a source for the number of people who had paid the LPT so far when you wouldn't accept the Revenue themselves as a reliable source.

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

You are entitled to Your thinking..I know what I heard.

Do you have any explanation as to why this news wasn't reported online by any news agency whatsoever? Is there any chance at all that you got it wrong?

Banjo String

Are revenue including the hundreds of thousands of local authority houses that must be paid by the council's in their figures?

A breakdown of the figures would be nice.

Le_Dieux

Right DV am going to answer Your replies above - hope I get to them all:

1)Why did I ask for source? To prove that You are using a government site to justify Your claim...though I would accept I also would use a site from the other side ( if I had one to wrong what You say:-))

2) You can be CERTAIN I'll NEVER vote Labour again ( whom I voted for in the past). As long as I can breathe I will NEVER vote FG. Who is left? Thats what bothers me...

3) Re the news on Euronews? I have no idea why. On reflection, I think I may be slightly wrong....that it was a proposal by the government of Portugal to get their economy moving again. Austerity didn't work, their words not mine....and they need to do something along another route. BUT, I do know I heard the dropping of phil's tax was proposed.

Wonder will that let him off the hook on his holiday home?:rolleyes:

bgrizzley

Phoebas wrote: »

Do you have any explanation as to why this news wasn't reported online by any news agency whatsoever? Is there any chance at all that you got it wrong?

is there any chance you are wrong? maybe E N were reporting this

http://translate.google.ie/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.pt%2Finicio%2Fportugal%2Finterior.aspx%3Fcontent_id%3D3189093%26seccao%3DMadeira

Phoebas

bgrizzley wrote: »

is there any chance you are wrong? maybe E N were reporting this

http://translate.google.ie/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.pt%2Finicio%2Fportugal%2Finterior.aspx%3Fcontent_id%3D3189093%26seccao%3DMadeira

That link (well done 'though) appears to be some local technical or administrative difficulty about the setting of the local rate of property tax in one county in Maderia.

I suppose its possible that Euronews was reporting that (but doubtful) and that Le Dieux completely misunderstood it as Portugal dropping their property tax. He does sometimes display confirmation bias.

Le_Dieux

Phoebas wrote: »

That link (well done 'though) appears to be some local technical or administrative difficulty about the setting of the local rate of property tax in one county in Maderia.

I suppose its possible that Euronews was reporting that (but doubtful) and that Le Dieux completely misunderstood it as Portugal dropping their property tax. He does sometimes display confirmation bias.

Actually, you assume wrong ...again. I prefer the TRUTH!!! Something thats hard for your bunch in Kildare Street to understand.

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

1)Why did I ask for source? To prove that You are using a government site to justify Your claim...though I would accept I also would use a site from the other side ( if I had one to wrong what You say:-))

I'm not sure I understand. How would anyone else but the Revenue have more accurate returns figures than the Revenue itself? All of the information about LPT returns originate from the Revenue.

Le_Dieux

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand. How would anyone else but the Revenue have more accurate returns figures than the Revenue itself? All of the information about LPT returns originate from the Revenue.

Exactly, and it's the spin that revenue play here is what makes me suspicious of the accuracy ( or truth) of the numbers they are publishing.

Le_Dieux

Anyway Phoebas, am not going to bite any more bait from You for now. Want to not be banned again over my beliefs. so off out to do some gardening...enjoy Boards!

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Actually, you assume wrong ...again. I prefer the TRUTH!!! Something thats hard for your bunch in Kildare Street to understand.

I've no doubt that you prefer the truth. I'm just suggesting that confirmation bias can sometimes lead one to to misinterpret it.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

On reflection, I think I may be slightly wrong

Le_Dieux

Ah well...................Seems Phoebas, your bunch just cannot leave anything alone.

I said I won't be here as am going out into the garden ( am here now as we have a passing shower) but just ONE minute and you have to have a say.

As for my reflection on Portugal, at least I had the balls to admit the 'possibility'. As I said, I DID hear a reference to Portugal dropping their LPT..I KNOW what I heard. Just not certain that either they are, or are contemplating it.

And please, stop assuming on my behalf! OK rain has stopped, so if you don't mind, enough of throwing bait.

ziggy451

Possibly this point has been made previously but as closing dates for this tax approach, it may be good to air again.

Whilst the pressure is being put on people to register and pay a ridiculous tax, perhaps it is time for people to put pressure back onto the political bunch; in times of austerity and an average industrial wage of approx. €43,000 why is it acceptable for a TD to receive an average approaching €200,000 (including extras and expenses)?

With 166 TD's, cutting all of these bludgers down to the average industrial wage would certainly save the country a substantial amount per year. Take into account the 2nd political house and you probably exceed the amount that would be raised annually by the property tax...

Is it not time that these people were brought back to earth and put onto the average industrial wage, for the good of Ireland and as we are 'all in it together....' etc.

Some interesting reading:-

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/how-much-do-irish-politicians-get-paid-part-1-of-2/

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/48591/tds-are-living-like-lords-and-expect-the-public-to-cough-up-these-extra-charges

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/average-industrial-wage-828-88-per-week-805225-Feb2013/

cageyeuclid

From the Revenue site :

Number of LPT calls and returns
Category ............................. Number
Calls to LPT helpline .............. 199,834
Total LPT returns received........332,500*
*Electronic returns received: ... 204,891
*Paper returns received: ......... 127,609

I do not doubt the 332,500 paid, but here are my queries :

Q1: How many of the paid are true single house owners? (excluding Local Government / multiple owners / rented accommodation etc etc )
Q2: still a greater question ... How many on Social Welfare / Carer / Old age pension etc have paid.

Please stop arguing about other countries having a Property Tax ... the vast majority of countries do not,
and most of those who have relate it to the ability to pay.

Any tax not related to the ability to pay (or choice of purchase like VAT) is very cruel and very unjust.

Good to see people are starting to pay what they owe.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/household-tax-dodgers-pay-up-as-revenue-closes-in-29244149.html

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see people are starting to pay what they owe.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/household-tax-dodgers-pay-up-as-revenue-closes-in-29244149.html

You're using the independent as a source when it furthers your cause.

Then dismiss it when it doesn't

with u-turns like that, next you'll be telling us it's morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax the family home.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84144490&postcount=368

FF are coming round to the Governments way of thinking. They are letting the electorate know that they DO agree with the LPT. (Whick, of course, we knew all along)

Phoebas

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see people are starting to pay what they owe.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/household-tax-dodgers-pay-up-as-revenue-closes-in-29244149.html

It was always going to be this way; people waiting 'till they paid their LPT to pay the HHC arrears.
I haven't seen much from the CAHWT in recent times apart from a few tiny protests with a handful of protesters. They never appeared to have any kind of strategy at all.

In the past week alone, some 19,478 household charge rebels paid up as the
arrival of the property tax made them anxious about being caught.

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see people are starting to pay what they owe.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/household-tax-dodgers-pay-up-as-revenue-closes-in-29244149.html[/QUOTE]

The Sindo is a FF (FG ) rag, so this poll is pretty meaningless

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

FF are coming round to the Governments way of thinking. They are letting the electorate know that they DO agree with the LPT. (Whick, of course, we knew all along)

OMG, that you, Noonan? Really, the diatribe spewing out here is mind blowing. MA, can You not do better? Use the Indo when they produce something You agree with, and lambast the paper otherwise?

Le_Dieux

I notice you didn't upload this: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/housefee-protesters-vow-they-wont-be-scared-off-29244195.html

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see people are starting to pay what they owe.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/household-tax-dodgers-pay-up-as-revenue-closes-in-29244149.html[/QUOTE]

Nothing like scaremongering eh, MA?

What really bugs me is the people who are paying - what are they getting for their money? I really think this whole entire thing is a con job, some extra dosh to hype up the pension funds, and make sure dear oul EG, EK, PR, etc get their pensions. Oh not forgetting the thing from Drumcondra, among others, either

SICKENING!!!

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

FF are coming round to the Governments way of thinking. They are letting the electorate know that they DO agree with the LPT. (Whick, of course, we knew all along)

Or.............you are coming around to FF's way of thinking? Man, make your mind up, will ya?

Chips Lovell

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Nothing like scaremongering eh, MA?

What really bugs me is the people who are paying - what are they getting for their money? I really think this whole entire thing is a con job, some extra dosh to hype up the pension funds, and make sure dear oul EG, EK, PR, etc get their pensions. Oh not forgetting the thing from Drumcondra, among others, either

Talking about scaremongering.... It isn't going to anyone's pension. It's going to local authorities.

Le_Dieux

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Talking about scaremongering.... It isn't going to anyone's pension. It's going to local authorities.

i'm not going to call You a liar Vlad, but did'nt one of the stooges in the govt. say that only a certain % is?

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see people are starting to pay what they owe.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/household-tax-dodgers-pay-up-as-revenue-closes-in-29244149.html[/QUOTE]

I also note You didn't quote any of the contributor's under the article, though on reading them, I couldn't blame You.

Just to tickle Your fancy, chew on this one ( apologies if the author reads this):

I read two articles over the week-end.
One stated that we currently pay 1 billion per month in interest,
the other that it is probable that the upcoming "bank health check" will reveal a 30 billion black hole that WE, the citizens, will have to fill.
If both articles are correct, and I honestly don't know if they are not, I think we are in deep deep trouble.
It could be that rather than being in a hole, we are in a mine shaft and we are still bloody digging.

I sincerely hope the author is wrong, but somehow, I think He/She is onto something here. For me? I'll not be registering anytime soon, and wait and see what crawls out of the woodwork....ok dv/MA/Vlad/Noonan/EG etc?

Oh and here's another which echoes my sentiment:

Instead of just printing more threats from that horrible, gloating woman, why doesn't this paper ask her how she thinks hard pressed households are going to find this money.

No doubt on her massive salary she has no such worries.

Phoebas

Le_Dieux wrote: »

i'm not going to call You a liar Vlad, but did'nt one of the stooges in the govt. say that only a certain % is?

No. You're mistaken again.
I think what you're getting at is that something like 65% is to be spent in the LA where it is collected, but the remaining 35% may go to fund other LAs.
But it all goes on local authority funding.

Where exactly did you get the idea that it was going towards the pensions of politicians? You just made that up, didn't you?

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Talking about scaremongering.... It isn't going to anyone's pension. It's going to local authorities.

It's for the central fund, that Noonan himself can't guarantee won't fund bankers salaries (indirectly).

Then again, according to you Richie rich is worth every cent anyway.

Come to think of it, on this and various other threads I've yet to see you be outspoken on a single thing the govt or the banks say or do, you defend every action and financial decision made. Even when a bank is operating to the tune of several billion Euro of a loss, you still reckon Boucher deserves his salary.

Make of that what you will.

Chips Lovell

It is going to local authorities. 80 per cent of it (was originally 65 per cent) is going to the local authority it is collected in. The balance is redistributed to other local authorities.

I think you're misremembering what Noonan said. He said he couldn't guarantee that any taxpayers money (not property tax money) money didn't indirectly go into recapitalising the AIB pension scheme.

Richie Boucher's salary has nothing to do with Property Tax.

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It is going to local authorities. 80 per cent of it (was originally 65 per cent) is going to the local authority it is collected in. The balance is redistributed to other local authorities.

I think you're misremembering what Noonan said. He said he couldn't guarantee that any taxpayers money (not property tax money) money didn't indirectly go into recapitalising the AIB pension scheme.

Richie Boucher's salary has nothing to do with Property Tax.

Tax payers money is tax payers money.

That was a u-turn from Noonan anyway. What's to stop him saying something similar ref the property tax at a later date?

U-turns are seemingly no problem to the current coalition anyway, setting as the banks and bondholders did get another red cent, child benefit did get touched, and we're now going things Frankfurt's way.

As for endas stance on taxing the family home:eek:

Chips Lovell

SamHall wrote: »

What's to stop him saying something similar ref the property tax at a later date?

There's little point in debating hypotheticals. The fact of the matter is that, as it stands, it's for local authorities.

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

There's little point in debating hypotheticals. The fact of the matter is that, as it stands, it's for local authorities.

Because the budget that used to fund them was cut.

Where is that money now going to?

Le_Dieux

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

There's little point in debating hypotheticals. The fact of the matter is that, as it stands, it's for local authorities.

While I would tend to agree with You Vlad, did not dear oul EK hypothetically not set the ball in motion himself back in 1994 when he made THAT statement?

Chips Lovell

Le_Dieux wrote: »

While I would tend to agree with You Vlad, did not dear oul EK hypothetically not set the ball in motion himself back in 1994 when he made THAT statement?

He's obviously changed his mind since then. In fact, he's had to change his mind since the last general election as the current property tax is more in line with Labour's pre-election proposals than Fine Gael.

But to reiterate, you can speculate all you want on what the government might do, whether it's suddenly decide to use property tax revenues to finance banks or all buy themselves gold shoes, but until it's actually happening, it's pretty pointless.

Phoebas

SamHall wrote: »

Because the budget that used to fund them was cut.

Where is that money now going to?

That money doesn't exist

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

That money doesn't exist

Well as it used to come from Income tax and VAT etc,(Which I for one still pay every month) I think you are very much mistaken Phoebas.