Grass Measuring

Muckit

bob charles wrote: »

ground has gone bone dry

The question on every ones mind is if you are bone dry after your holiday to Miami :pac:

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

The question on every ones mind is if you are bone dry after your holiday to Miami :pac:

I was that before leaving, back up to normal reserves now

Muckit

bob charles wrote: »

I was that before leaving, back up to normal reserves now

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

TEAT SQUEEZER

bob charles wrote: »

ground has gone bone dry and growth still very poor, I was excited with what I was hearing on here last week, seemly it was nothing but wind here last week. if we were to continue to get a drying wind we are screwed as the ground is badly capped

i`m with you on that bob... gr 56 this week, demand is 60 (2.75 kgs meal ).. will get silage finished this week but am fearful of a long dry spell..

ellewood

delaval wrote: »

Judging by your demand you are at 2.5 lu/ha. This is way too light in this growth, then again I don't know your land but I am assuming its all grazable.
I aim for </=1400 opening cover. With your sr you could aim much lower but would need to speed up your rotation to do so.
With that sr you must be getting into a serious surplus. This will need to be dealt with as a priority. I would suggest walking your farm identify how many paddocks >1300. Then look at how many you have at 1000. If you have 3/4 days with 1000 covers bale high ones.
Grass is growing like billeoh at the moment and these 900-1000's will be 12-14's very quickly and you will have lost control.
In summary speed rotation, take bales and fertilize to make the most of the growth that's available.
This way you will set up your pasture to be top quality for the back end when you need to lengthen your rotation. It's hard to believe that in just 3 mths we will be getting ready to start our last rotation!!!

Thanks for that,
Done another walk today to measure to see better whats growing
Bear with me cause im fairley new to this measuring crack
I have 33 cows and calves grazing on 10.2 hec but 1.2 of this is only rough grazing they would prob only get 1 days grass in this per rotation or i can use it to run them off on for a day if i get heavy rain
So I have 33+33 on 9 hec bur the cows only avg 550kgs(theres even a jex cow and lim calf on them) and calves avg 100kgs so at 2% would be about 420=430 daily demand
I have 10 paddocks of just under 1 hec in each and would like eack to last 2 days
They started to strip graze one of the last 4 paddocks all of which has a cover of over 2000 (but its all leafy green grass not stemmy or headed out yet) on them and i plan to keep strip grazing this until the first paddock has enough of a cover on it - its only got about 900 on it at the moment - you reckon let it go to about 13-1400 before starting back on this
So am i right is saying if i start back on paddock 1 with a cover of 1400 on it and keep 1400 on each new paddock in front of them the 7 0.9hec paddocks widd do them 16 days + 1 in the rough grazing = 17 days ahead is this enough?

freedominacup

ellewood wrote: »

Thanks for that,
Done another walk today to measure to see better whats growing
Bear with me cause im fairley new to this measuring crack
I have 33 cows and calves grazing on 10.2 hec but 1.2 of this is only rough grazing they would prob only get 1 days grass in this per rotation or i can use it to run them off on for a day if i get heavy rain
So I have 33+33 on 9 hec bur the cows only avg 550kgs(theres even a jex cow and lim calf on them) and calves avg 100kgs so at 2% would be about 420=430 daily demand
I have 10 paddocks of just under 1 hec in each and would like eack to last 2 days
They started to strip graze one of the last 4 paddocks all of which has a cover of over 2000 (but its all leafy green grass not stemmy or headed out yet) on them and i plan to keep strip grazing this until the first paddock has enough of a cover on it - its only got about 900 on it at the moment - you reckon let it go to about 13-1400 before starting back on this
So am i right is saying if i start back on paddock 1 with a cover of 1400 on it and keep 1400 on each new paddock in front of them the 7 0.9hec paddocks widd do them 16 days + 1 in the rough grazing = 17 days ahead is this enough?

At this time of year if you can see a weeks grass coming ready ahead of you it's enough.

delaval

ellewood wrote: »

Thanks for that,
Done another walk today to measure to see better whats growing
Bear with me cause im fairley new to this measuring crack
I have 33 cows and calves grazing on 10.2 hec but 1.2 of this is only rough grazing they would prob only get 1 days grass in this per rotation or i can use it to run them off on for a day if i get heavy rain
So I have 33+33 on 9 hec bur the cows only avg 550kgs(theres even a jex cow and lim calf on them) and calves avg 100kgs so at 2% would be about 420=430 daily demand
I have 10 paddocks of just under 1 hec in each and would like eack to last 2 days
They started to strip graze one of the last 4 paddocks all of which has a cover of over 2000 (but its all leafy green grass not stemmy or headed out yet) on them and i plan to keep strip grazing this until the first paddock has enough of a cover on it - its only got about 900 on it at the moment - you reckon let it go to about 13-1400 before starting back on this
So am i right is saying if i start back on paddock 1 with a cover of 1400 on it and keep 1400 on each new paddock in front of them the 7 0.9hec paddocks widd do them 16 days + 1 in the rough grazing = 17 days ahead is this enough?

Your sr is much higher than you suggested I recon closer to 70 than your 43.
33 cows + 33 calves lets say 43 lu/ha on 10 ha eating 17kg/day. So 43/10=4.3lu/ha. I don't know about sucklers but I guess they eat 17kg/day would give you a demand of 4.3x17=73. This is close enough to growth. You may not have as large a surplus as first thought however if when you finish the paddock you are on you still have 2/3 with 2000 and the first with 1000 I take them out.
Look at it this way 1ha paddock cover 1200=1,2tdm and you have 43 lux17=731kg/day. If my allocation per animal is correct 1 paddock should last 2 days and you get in more leaf therefore should have better performance.
Usually if 1 week grass in front you are ok in this growth.

ellewood

delaval wrote: »

Your sr is much higher than you suggested I recon closer to 70 than your 43.
33 cows + 33 calves lets say 43 lu/ha on 10 ha eating 17kg/day. So 43/10=4.3lu/ha. I don't know about sucklers but I guess they eat 17kg/day would give you a demand of 4.3x17=73. This is close enough to growth. You may not have as large a surplus as first thought however if when you finish the paddock you are on you still have 2/3 with 2000 and the first with 1000 I take them out.
Look at it this way 1ha paddock cover 1200=1,2tdm and you have 43 lux17=731kg/day. If my allocation per animal is correct 1 paddock should last 2 days and you get in more leaf therefore should have better performance.
Usually if 1 week grass in front you are ok in this growth.

Thanks a mill for that, I had it worked out simular but its great to get a second opinion from someone who is doing it for a while to re assure.
It takes a bit of balls to trust the figures when you dont see a huge bank of grass in front of them.
Yea growth is flying at the moment
From measuring last monday and again yesterday and dividing by 6 days I got a GR of 74kgs/day I could be a mile off on that as its the first time doing 1 but I dont think I am - at least I hope not!!!
The aim alright is to keep nice green leafy grass in front of them for as long as possible and as all paddocks up to this were skinned when grazed and got 2 bags of pasture sward/acre after they should be set up now if I can keep them under control.

Thanks a mill for that, thats what i wanted to hear - I

delaval

ellewood wrote: »

Thanks a mill for that, I had it worked out simular but its great to get a second opinion from someone who is doing it for a while to re assure.
It takes a bit of balls to trust the figures when you dont see a huge bank of grass in front of them.
Yea growth is flying at the moment
From measuring last monday and again yesterday and dividing by 6 days I got a GR of 74kgs/day I could be a mile off on that as its the first time doing 1 but I dont think I am - at least I hope not!!!
The aim alright is to keep nice green leafy grass in front of them for as long as possible and as all paddocks up to this were skinned when grazed and got 2 bags of pasture sward/acre after they should be set up now if I can keep them under control.

Thanks a mill for that, thats what i wanted to hear - I

I'd say your on the money with growth. Measure again on Sun and you'll be reassured

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

I'd say your on the money with growth. Measure again on Sun and you'll be reassured

Oul started to have a panic attack this evening over knocking paddocks nearly passed out when I told him there were more being knocked tomorrow. Baler expected thurs evening.

Timmaay

freedominacup wrote: »

Oul started to have a panic attack this evening over knocking paddocks nearly passed out when I told him there were more being knocked tomorrow. Baler expected thursday evening.

Ha, calling in the contractor on the sly to knock afew paddocks is the last resort for me, but by now running short on ways to convince mine otherwise. Thankfully got cut 40acres 1st cut today, but quality window missed on that, all seeded out. Anyone any ideas how to make the oul man listen to these modern ideas ha?

mf240

Timmaay wrote: »

Ha, calling in the contractor on the sly to knock afew paddocks is the last resort for me, but by now running short on ways to convince mine otherwise. Thankfully got cut 40acres 1st cut today, but quality window missed on that, all seeded out. Anyone any ideas how to make the oul man listen to these modern ideas ha?

Tell him it's not fit to cut.

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Ha, calling in the contractor on the sly to knock afew paddocks is the last resort for me, but by now running short on ways to convince mine otherwise. Thankfully got cut 40acres 1st cut today, but quality window missed on that, all seeded out. Anyone any ideas how to make the oul man listen to these modern ideas ha?

My oul fella is never that hard to convince on new ideas he's just concerned (with some justification) about growth rates if the weather stays dry. I'll let the rest of ye know if there's drought coming as we will be first effected.We have gotten almost no rain since late April, certainly none of the heavy rain that upset so many in the middle of May and this place burns for sport. He gets what we're doing but he has a point to some degree that it would be cheaper to let them graze it themselves if growth stops. I still think quality will out and the utilisation of those strong paddocks will be terrible anyway.

whelan1

sure if a drought does come you will have the bales/silage to feed them

freedominacup

whelan1 wrote: »

sure if a drought does come you will have the bales/silage to feed them

I know that and so does he.

td5man

Does anyone measure silage covers,as in grass not plastic .
If cutting and weighing what formula do you use?

bob charles

first burned patches appearing on our light land, had a wander around the stock today and there certainly will be a diesel saving as no topping is required in most of the fields , I detest topping, most boring job ever

td5man

bob charles wrote: »

first burned patches appearing on our light land, had a wander around the stock today and there certainly will be a diesel saving as no topping is required in most of the fields , I detest topping, most boring job ever

With good grass management you shouldnt need topping ;-)

delaval

We had a group meeting Cell Check very interesting.
We then did farm walk, guy was premowing covers of 1800 cows very content, eating all, no meal and 21 litres.

Do any of you do this. Have seen it passing a few places. He said he'll do some of his paddocks as rest have been baled.
He also said that he wouldn't Pre mow higher than this as it will sweeten the grass but quality compromised

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

We had a group meeting Cell Check very interesting.
We then did farm walk, guy was premowing covers of 1800 cows very content, eating all, no meal and 21 litres.

Do any of you do this. Have seen it passing a few places. He said he'll do some of his paddocks as rest have been baled.
He also said that he wouldn't Pre mow higher than this as it will sweeten the grass but quality compromised

Did it for years but found it very hard to stop once you had started IYKWIM. Cows woud refuse to graze after having it so handy with the pre-mowed.He's right about the 1800 thing. It's hard to get them to clean out any cover that high no matter how you present it to them. Got talked out of doing it by serious grass guys who pointed out that topping is topping no matter when you do it. Much better to get the cows to clean the paddocks themselves. It looks grand all the same, clean paddocks no spatters of sh1t all over tractor and mower but it's still topping.

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

Did it for years but found it very hard to stop once you had started IYKWIM. Cows woud refuse to graze after having it so handy with the pre-mowed.He's right about the 1800 thing. It's hard to get them to clean out any cover that high no matter how you present it to them. Got talked out of doing it by serious grass guys who pointed out that topping is topping no matter when you do it. Much better to get the cows to clean the paddocks themselves. It looks grand all the same, clean paddocks no spatters of sh1t all over tractor and mower but it's still topping.

Can you decode IYKWIM?
He said the same about no **** on tractor and I said topping is topping, you must have had the same conversation:):)

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Can you decode IYKWIM?
He said the same about no **** on tractor and I said topping is topping, you must have had the same conversation:):)

If You Know What I Mean:rolleyes:. It works but as said topping is topping and I've been talked out of it. Diesel is too pricey.

mf240

freedominacup wrote: »

If You Know What I Mean:rolleyes:. It works but as said topping is topping and I've been talked out of it. Diesel is too pricey.

Guy near here does all the paddocks once even if their not too heavy sets the farm up lovely for rest of year.

Advantage over topping in that it's all eaten and it's topped and back growing a day or too sooner than if toped after grazing.

I assume ye all cycle to these group meeting where the burning of diesel is so fiercely frowned upon.

freedominacup

mf240 wrote: »

Guy near here does all the paddocks once even if their not too heavy sets the farm up lovely for rest of year.

Advantage over topping in that it's all eaten and it's topped and back growing a day or too sooner than if toped after grazing.

I assume ye all cycle to these group meeting where the burning of diesel is so fiercely frowned upon.

As I said before I did it for years and when I stopped saw no real drop in performance. I don't mind burning diesel providing there's a return. We knocked 3 paddocks today for bales looks like 2 more next week there's a return from that sort of activity and looking at the recovery on last weeks it's every bit as good as premowing and paddocks will be just as clean.

maxxuumman

I havn't topped in 10 yrs. Only ever pre mow. There are loads of advantages to pre mowing over topping.
No sh1t on mower or tractor
More grass utilisation, they will happily eat the dung pat grass when it's pre mowed.
You gain a day on regrowth, as it's cut a day earlier
Regrowth is very clean, and faster than with topping with mower, or grazing. I'm not sure the reason with this, I think it's because it's a cleaner cut, not sure.
In this kind of weather DM intakes are higher, as the grass is wilted 6+ hours.

I usually do two rounds, a round apart, gives lovely grass for the year. The mower is a conditioner mower, but I have the conditioner opened to the last, if the conditioner is closed the cows don't like it as much. Also don't cut as low as mowing, bed tilted back to 4cms

Timmaay

Anyone mind explaining what pre mowing is?

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Anyone mind explaining what pre mowing is?

Cutting grass in front of the cows timmay and letting them eat it

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Cutting grass in front of the cows timmay and letting them eat it

Interesting, only problem I'd see with that instead of topping (which gets done every yr here without fail) is that we usually have too many weeds, even now thistles are starting to pop up all over the place.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Interesting, only problem I'd see with that instead of topping (which gets done every yr here without fail) is that we usually have too many weeds, even now thistles are starting to pop up all over the place.

Time to pull out the sprayer so!!

maxxuumman

mahoney_j wrote: »

Time to pull out the sprayer so!!

... Or top earlier

delaval

Paddock cut for bales 23/5 1200 now. This is same paddock pictured last week so you can compare

just do it

delaval wrote: »

Paddock cut for bales 23/5 1200 now. This is same paddock pictured last week so you can compare

I'd nearly eat it myself

mahoney_j

For anyone out there that questions wether to reseed and if it is worth it,I am just after walking farm and measured growth,I reseeded half a 12 acre field last year(2 paddocks).these paddocks were baled Wednesday last week and have grown 135kg/per day since then ,the 2 older paddocks fertilised same day after been grazed grew 70 which ain't no mean feat either but couldn't get over re growth on new paddocks.growth rate across farm 88demand 80 ,cover per lu 154.serious weeks growth a lot of bales taken out..farm cover a tad lower than I'd like but just after putting a load of fertiliser out and rain on the way next week so should be ok

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

For anyone out there that questions wether to reseed and if it is worth it,I am just after walking farm and measured growth,I reseeded half a 12 acre field last year(2 paddocks).these paddocks were baled Wednesday last week and have grown 135kg/per day since then ,the 2 older paddocks fertilised same day after been grazed grew 70 which ain't no mean feat either but couldn't get over re growth on new paddocks.growth rate across farm 88demand 80 ,cover per lu 154.serious weeks growth a lot of bales taken out..farm cover a tad lower than I'd like but just after putting a load of fertiliser out and rain on the way next week so should be ok

I know your cows would require more dm than mine. What are you allocating per cow before you top up. What's you sr at the moment.

So true about reseeds. People often say that it's not worth the expense. Your example proves them wrong but where I notice the real difference is in the Spring and back end the way they respond to slurry and fert.

As a matter of interest what % of your farm is index 1&2. We are 10%1and 12%2 so almost a quarter sub 3 not at all except able. Not only that there is a big difference between low3's and a high 3. This coupled with Scc are our two goals for the next 2 years, while we wait for quotas to go and get distracted again. I'm beginning to get bored, love a project.

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

I know your cows would require more dm than mine. What are you allocating per cow before you top up. What's you sr at the moment.

So true about reseeds. People often say that it's not worth the expense. Your example proves them wrong but where I notice the real difference is in the Spring and back end the way they respond to slurry and fert.

As a matter of interest what % of your farm is index 1&2. We are 10%1and 12%2 so almost a quarter sub 3 not at all except able. Not only that there is a big difference between low3's and a high 3. This coupled with Scc are our two goals for the next 2 years, while we wait for quotas to go and get distracted again. I'm beginning to get bored, love a project.

Allocating 15 kg and getting between 4 and 6 kg in parlour depending on yield.normally stocked at 3.7 till first cut silage ground comes back but up around 5 at the moment with all paddocks gone for wraps but these will come back into rotation next week. As for reseeds they are the business and well worth the money at this stage of the year and as u rightly said in the shoulders.as for p and k index ,I last soil tested for derogation in 2011 and had about 40 % at index 2 and none at 1, the rest were 3 and 4.worked feet plan with my advisor and went heavy with 0 10 20 and 18 6 12 on them in spring Nd autumn as well as pasture sward during summer.i think it us really paying off now and reckon I should be at all index 3 at least.have to be creative with feet records though!!!! My next little project is to see how I can grow cow nos post 2015.the plan is to source a top contract reader for my heifer replacements and keep about 10 top RBI breeding bulls for sale,oh and you'll like this I plan on getting into about 15 purebred jerseys to help increase solids.ill still keep my Holsteins and won't cross them,just as I won't the jerseys..keep the breed pure

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Allocating 15 kg and getting between 4 and 6 kg in parlour depending on yield.normally stocked at 3.7 till first cut silage ground comes back but up around 5 at the moment with all paddocks gone for wraps but these will come back into rotation next week. As for reseeds they are the business and well worth the money at this stage of the year and as u rightly said in the shoulders.as for p and k index ,I last soil tested for derogation in 2011 and had about 40 % at index 2 and none at 1, the rest were 3 and 4.worked feet plan with my advisor and went heavy with 0 10 20 and 18 6 12 on them in spring Nd autumn as well as pasture sward during summer.i think it us really paying off now and reckon I should be at all index 3 at least.have to be creative with feet records though!!!! My next little project is to see how I can grow cow nos post 2015.the plan is to source a top contract reader for my heifer replacements and keep about 10 top RBI breeding bulls for sale,oh and you'll like this I plan on getting into about 15 purebred jerseys to help increase solids.ill still keep my Holsteins and won't cross them,just as I won't the jerseys..keep the breed pure

I visied a dairy farm in Idaho last fall. 40,000 milking cows but what was interesting was that half were pure Jersey. I asked why he hadn't crossed any and his response was that he'd only get the worst of both worlds. It's gas as I feel that we get the best of both worlds, horses for courses:):)

The first Jerseys we used were from Denmark not NZ. They would beat any cow you care to choose for kg's produced massive milk. They were poor to go in calf though.

Timmaay

Nashmash was saying over on the other farming forum about 16000kg JEs he saw in the states :-!

But yeh would give plenty of consideration to contract rearing here also postquotas, lots of good enthusiastic beef farmers around me and I'm sure I could get one to convert over. Its not that common here in east wicklow yet I'll admit though!

nashmach

Timmaay wrote: »

Nashmash was saying over on the other farming forum about 16000kg JEs he saw in the states :-!

But yeh would give plenty of consideration to contract rearing here also postquotas, lots of good enthusiastic beef farmers around me and I'm sure I could get one to convert over. Its not that common here in east wicklow yet I'll admit though!

Wasn't me Tim!!

I think you have the wrong man :)

Timmaay

nashmach wrote: »

Was I Tim!!

I think you have the wrong man :)

Sorry one of the regulars said it defo ha, On the mobile now and was too lazy to go double check ha.

mf240

Timmaay wrote: »

Sorry one of the regulars said it defo ha, On the mobile now and was too lazy to go double check ha.

You know I find the idea of a few pure jerseys more palatable than crossing with the other cows but would they not be too small in palour built for Holsteins.

mahoney_j

mf240 wrote: »

You know I find the idea of a few pure jerseys more palatable than crossing with the other cows but would they not be too small in palour built for Holsteins.

No the pure jerseys ive seen are pretty big,Not quite as big as a holstein but a fair bit bigger than a jex.Just dont like the idea of crossing breeds,Not my cup of tea.If i could milk big nos of them say 200 plus or was farming heavy land maby i would consider the jex

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

No the pure jerseys ive seen are pretty big,Not quite as big as a holstein but a fair bit bigger than a jex.Just dont like the idea of crossing breeds,Not my cup of tea.If i could milk big nos of them say 200 plus or was farming heavy land maby i would consider the jex

I don't know where you saw the jerseys that are bigger than Jex.
The guy in the Us was milking them seperatly

Muckit

5 paddocks cut for bales this evening. Nice leafy stuff. Two 10' swarths grouped into one. Should make it easier for baler to pick and make good shaped bales.

Cut all meadow for pit also, picking Saturday.

I have over 60% of the farm cut out now at this stage between meadows and surplus paddocks. Should set the farm up lovely for the rest of the summer and the topper not seen the light of day yet.

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

5 paddocks cut for bales this evening. Nice leafy stuff. Two 10' swarths grouped into one. Should make it easier for baler to pick and make good shaped bales.

Cut all meadow for pit also, picking Saturday.

I have over 60% of the farm cut out now at this stage between meadows and surplus paddocks. Should set the farm up lovely for the rest of the summer and the topper not seen the light of day yet.

Fair deuce Muckit, you're taken to the new regime with real gusto :D

delaval

Muckit wrote: »

5 paddocks cut for bales this evening. Nice leafy stuff. Two 10' swarths grouped into one. Should make it easier for baler to pick and make good shaped bales.

Cut all meadow for pit also, picking Saturday.

I have over 60% of the farm cut out now at this stage between meadows and surplus paddocks. Should set the farm up lovely for the rest of the summer and the topper not seen the light of day yet.

Jesus Muckit
Go handy, your putting us all to shame!!!!!

bob charles

just to burn the eyes of all you grazers . only 2 kgs of fresh grass in the feed and it looks like they are eating nothing else, im out of a forage so needs must. growth rates have dropped off after one decent weeks growth

Muckit

bob charles wrote: »

just to burn the eyes of all you grazers . only 2 kgs of fresh grass in the feed and it looks like they are eating nothing else, im out of a forage so needs must

Are they green bales? What else is on that concoction bob.....do I see spuds or chopped beet?

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

Are they green bales? What else is on that concoction bob.....do I see spuds or chopped beet?

chopped sugar beet, bales made on friday so they will tide me over for the next month until wholecrop come in

promise not to cream yourself muckit with attached picture

Muckit

Too late! :D:D Fine shed there for cattle. As good as being outside and they're not walking or sh*ttin on there food;) Are they on rubber slat mats?

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

Too late! :D:D Fine shed there for cattle. As good as being outside and they're not walking or sh*ttin on there food;) Are they on rubber slat mats?

not on slat mats, should be but couldnt afford to do the slats, will build another shed to the cost of the slat mats as I consider animal space more important than what they are standing on. On saying that got a bad going over with Mortellara this winter. its now probably or biggest cost that we hopefully should be able to control