Grass Measuring

bob charles

Hugh 2 wrote: »

Where do yea get these soil thermometers?
Thanks

use the one on the quite that the missus sticks in the Turnkey at xmas

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

use the one on the quite that the missus sticks in the Turnkey at xmas

Mine's a meat thermometer I spirited away from the kitchen, kids got ate for losing it in the sandpit

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Mine's a meat thermometer I spirited away from the kitchen, kids got ate for losing it in the sandpit

your probably ateing burned meat for the rest of your life now though

pakalasa

delaval wrote: »

Mine's a meat thermometer I spirited away from the kitchen, kids got ate for losing it in the sandpit

I suppose you blame the dog for farting too?

whelan1

delaval wrote: »

Mine's a meat thermometer I spirited away from the kitchen, kids got ate for losing it in the sandpit

thats a bit like the good carving knife and scissors that go missing around here, only to be found in the digger or shed:cool:

delaval

Soil temp 12
Afc 642
C/Lu 163
Gr 54
Demand 55
Sr 3.93
Looks like magic day here today 1 month later than usual!!
Cows on 3 kg 12% will be reduced considerably if growth rate improves over next few days. Grazing conditions excellent grazing to 50 I'd say

bob charles

your only tempting fate going measuring grass at the moment, after greening here, growth coming along nicely. Soil temperature is a constant 9c here at the moment with a small sprinkling of sunshine, not good grass growing weather yet

rancher

bob charles wrote: »

your only tempting fate going measuring grass at the moment, after greening here, growth coming along nicely

We can throw away the thermometer, magic day here today

Hugh 2

delaval wrote: »

Soil temp 12
Afc 642
C/Lu 163
Gr 54
Demand 55
Sr 3.93
Looks like magic day here today 1 month later than usual!!
Cows on 3 kg 12% will be reduced considerably if growth rate improves over next few days. Grazing conditions excellent grazing to 50 I'd say

Magic day might be a bit away for away for me
Sr =3.09 (no land stopped for silage)
Demand 50 growth 25 Average farm cover 201 kg/ha (up from 95 7 days ago)
I see people round here who kept stock in are close to making silage .
Land is dry here and silage was scarce all winter (so cows out night and day since calving bar 2 days and 4 to 5 nights )
Cows are getting an easier time so only asked to graze below 4 cm now whereas all along they were made graze below 3 cm

Hugh 2

delaval wrote: »

Soil temp 12
Afc 642
C/Lu 163
Gr 54
Demand 55
Sr 3.93
Looks like magic day here today 1 month later than usual!!
Cows on 3 kg 12% will be reduced considerably if growth rate improves over next few days. Grazing conditions excellent grazing to 50 I'd say

If C/Lu is the same as kg Dm available / milking cow mine is 65 (I am not including calves or what paddock they have )
I am now at the stage where I am allocating 7 kg grass / cow - up from allocation 3 or 4

delaval

Hugh 2 wrote: »

If C/Lu is the same as kg Dm available / milking cow mine is 65 (I am not including calves or what paddock they have )
I am now at the stage where I am allocating 7 kg grass / cow - up from allocation 3 or 4

How are you getting in the other 10kilos?

Hugh 2

delaval wrote: »

How are you getting in the other 10kilos?

5 kgs in parlour + bale of straw + a bale of silage and pit silage through diet feeder

delaval

Hugh 2 wrote: »

Magic day might be a bit away for away for me
Sr =3.09 (no land stopped for silage)
Demand 50 growth 25 Average farm cover 201 kg/ha (up from 95 7 days ago)
I see people round here who kept stock in are close to making silage .
Land is dry here and silage was scarce all winter (so cows out night and day since calving bar 2 days and 4 to 5 nights )
Cows are getting an easier time so only asked to graze below 4 cm now whereas all along they were made graze below 3 cm

If your cover/lu is up so much your growth is more than 25 but they are all at about 600? You only need another week of feeding to get going I'd say

stanflt

Afc 818
C/Lu 197.6
Gr 68
Demand 50
lu 4.14


short term silage being taking out

milking 35litre 3.68fat 3.44 protein

loveta

stanflt wrote: »

Afc 818
C/Lu 197.6
Gr 68
Demand 50
lu 4.14


short term silage being taking out

milking 35litre 3.68fat 3.44 protein

Great solids standfit since cows went out "still by day only" we have a heavy farm, solids are yo yo n all over the shop from 3.38 down to 3.17 at one stage :eek:doing something wrong:mad:

Hugh 2

delaval wrote: »

If your cover/lu is up so much your growth is more than 25 but they are all at about 600? You only need another week of feeding to get going I'd say

Hi delaval
i reckon that growth may well be greater than 25.
I use a plate meter and the farm program calculations ignores covers below 4cm
for example
a paddock with almost 700 grew 68/day
whereas a paddock with 20 kg only grew 3/ day
Unfortunately 10 of my 22 paddocks are still below 4 cm so growth rates are given as n/a


As regards all being over 600 I have only 1 @ 686 the next best is 436

I think I could put up the report to see if you can make any more sense of it

---

it may well be giving false info as it was never designed to measuring so little or the lack of grass.

dar31

Hugh 2 wrote: »

Hi delaval
i reckon that growth may well be greater than 25.
I use a plate meter and the farm program calculations ignores covers below 4cm
for example
a paddock with almost 700 grew 68/day
whereas a paddock with 20 kg only grew 3/ day
Unfortunately 10 of my 22 paddocks are still below 4 cm so growth rates are given as n/a


As regards all being over 600 I have only 1 @ 686 the next best is 436

I think I could put up the report to see if you can make any more sense of it

---

it may well be giving false info as it was never designed to measuring so little or the lack of grass.

use the plate meter to measure the residuals left on paddocks after grazing, then use this figure as your residual part of the formula for calculating covers.

when ever i used the recommended formulas for plate meters i was getting readings of -200 or greater a lot of the time

can remember formula at moment, but the residual part is variable depending on the time of year

Hugh 2

dar31 wrote: »

use the plate meter to measure the residuals left on paddocks after grazing, then use this figure as your residual part of the formula for calculating covers.
.
when ever i used the recommended formulas for plate meters i was getting readings of -200 or greater a lot of the time
.
can remember formula at moment, but the residual part is variable depending on the time of year

Hi dar31
Used the plate meter for the first 2 years and uses a simple formulae of every
1 cm = 200 kgs just ignore first 4 cm ie 5 cm=200 kgs 6. = 400 etc
This was ok away to calculate on the fly without calculator ( not all that accurate but I was out measuring )
Changed to the universal formula after that
This formula originated from newzealand something to do with when renting land the grass cover is taken into account and that some government body came up with a different formula for every day of the year . But at some stage they came up with a formula just one that was never 2 far out so it was adopted for the whole year.
Well anyway this formula worked fine for me having the last paddoc or twi reading below 4cm,s was not a problem having 10 showing below 4 cm,s is new for me.
.
Seems like we are going to have a wet week:(

mahoney_j

Afc 810
C/LU 231
GROWTH RATE 75
s/r 3.5
Grass finally flying and quickly moving to a surplus.2 paddocks earmarked for wraps early next week.Silage out of cows diet since last tuesday and milking 31.8 ltrs at 3.39 prot and 3.84 fat on beteween 4 and 8 kg of meal depending on yield

PatQfarmer

Measured Friday last, only back to PC now.

Growth 90!!!:D
AFC now 630.
Demand reduced to 31kg, thanks to sales of forward stores.
Now to manage the surplus...problem, what problem?:rolleyes:

Only comment is that I am grazing the poorer, older swards atm. So this measurement reflects the "best" part of the farm with newest grass in day 9-18 since last grazed out. Shows that reseeds work. Only 30-35 on older sward, I'd estimate.

PMU

thats the first thing people who measure find, the difference between old pasture and reseeds. all of a sudden grass-seed becomes cheap!

bob charles

its all a matter if your need a plate meter to tell you good reseeds grow more than poor pasture. mind you I have some older grass varieties here that kick the crap out of some of the newer varieties

PatQfarmer

bob charles wrote: »

its all a matter if your need a plate meter to tell you good reseeds grow more than poor pasture. mind you I have some older grass varieties here that kick the crap out of some of the newer varieties

Lol, Bob, true that. It's fairly evident, but good to be able to quantify the difference!
I haven't extended the spend to a platemeter, did a good bit of Cut & Weigh, marked the welly and went from there once eye was trained.
I have grazed a lot tighter since I started measuring and the quality is showing. That said, it's all grazed tight this year, and not necessarily through choice...:)

freedominacup

Quick question. I have often heard quoted that 1 acre should keep 50 dairy cows for one day at this time of year. At what growth rates, grass cover and DMI per cow is this correct if at all?

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

Quick question. I have often heard quoted that 1 acre should keep 50 dairy cows for one day at this time of year. At what growth rates, grass cover and DMI per cow is this correct if at all?

I worked out in ha's
50/acre=123/ ha
Allow 17 kgdm/cow (average cows) this would take a cover of 2100 too high
So Sr is 1/acre or 2.47/ha
This is a demand of 42
Growth would need to be 100/day for 3 week rotation


This could be done with 3 kg ration and allowance of 14kgs grass dm.
The demand is now 34 and cover would need to be 1700 too high.

Could you check the figures as I'm not the brightest !!!

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

I worked out in ha's
50/acre=123/ ha
Allow 17 kgdm/cow (average cows) this would take a cover of 2100 too high
So Sr is 1/acre or 2.47/ha
This is a demand of 42
Growth would need to be 100/day for 3 week rotation


This could be done with 3 kg ration and allowance of 14kgs grass dm.
The demand is now 34 and cover would need to be 1700 too high.

Could you check the figures as I'm not the brightest !!!

Yeah I'd say you're close enough. The answer is "not really doable" so. Covers would need to be too high for good utilisation. Am I right in saying above 1500 kg covers utilisation starts to drop fairly quickly? If you were budgeting for 16 kgs DMI on 1500 covers (which aren't very plentiful at the mo') your hectare would feed 93/94 cows per day or 37 to the acre?

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

Yeah I'd say you're close enough. The answer is "not really doable" so. Covers would need to be too high for good utilisation. Am I right in saying above 1500 kg covers utilisation starts to drop fairly quickly? If you were budgeting for 16 kgs DMI on 1500 covers (which aren't very plentiful at the mo') your hectare would feed 93/94 cows per day or 37 to the acre?

>1500 we mow and bale or wagon. Have some to do now waiting for window. I am almost afraid to ask but, did anyone see weather for the week?

Timmaay

delaval wrote: »

>1500 we mow and bale or wagon. Have some to do now waiting for window. I am almost afraid to ask but, did anyone see weather for the week?

Ugh, you're better off not knowing, leave the baler in the shed! Have some here close also.

jaymla627

whats everyone take on current growth rates reckon here maybe mid 20s up in laois was at 80 in the couple of good days that where got....whats people plans on worst case scenario happening and a repeat of last summers weather thinkin of goin once a day milking in the next month our two if growth rates dont take up just tryin to carry cows over next winter looks like its goin to cost a fortune

delaval

jaymla627 wrote: »

whats everyone take on current growth rates reckon here maybe mid 20s up in laois was at 80 in the couple of good days that where got....whats people plans on worst case scenario happening and a repeat of last summers weather thinkin of goin once a day milking in the next month our two if growth rates dont take up just tryin to carry cows over next winter looks like its goin to cost a fortune

What will OAD do to reduce demand?

jaymla627

Its noting to do with reducing demand more trying to hold cow condition saying that two good weeks of growth will turn the whole thing around but if it dosent come just trying to keep cows going will become the priority if we take new zealand for example this year with the drought some horrible stories coming out of goverment agencies going onto 1000 cow farms and culling 200 cows on the one day that where near starvation/death, nearer to home 110 cow farm on wet ground about 10 miles from us sent 25 of his older milking cows to the factory back in april just to try and get back on top of things grass wise, this year could really make our break a lot of lads if the weather dosent come good especially anyone on wet ground which now after the last weeks rain has become ungrazeable for the next 2-3 weeks at least wat options are left for these guys realistically other then go once a day milking try to keep there cows going.

delaval

jaymla627 wrote: »

Its noting to do with reducing demand more trying to hold cow condition saying that two good weeks of growth will turn the whole thing around but if it dosent come just trying to keep cows going will become the priority if we take new zealand for example this year with the drought some horrible stories coming out of goverment agencies going onto 1000 cow farms and culling 200 cows on the one day that where near starvation/death, nearer to home 110 cow farm on wet ground about 10 miles from us sent 25 of his older milking cows to the factory back in april just to try and get back on top of things grass wise, this year could really make our break a lot of lads if the weather dosent come good especially anyone on wet ground which now after the last weeks rain has become ungrazeable for the next 2-3 weeks at least wat options are left for these guys realistically other then go once a day milking try to keep there cows going.

We have milked thinner cows and lame cows OAD in the past it's amazing how the condition bulds quickly. Any time we do cows feet we keep on OAD 'till their up and running again. Do you have any feed left and how much meal re you feeding.

jaymla627

Have 25 days left of covers of 1000kg plus with 30 acreas of silage ground closed up on outfarms since 1 st april hoping to cut 1 june still feeding 7 kg meal made up of 3.5 kg of soya hulls and 3.5 kg 16 precent dairy nut, not really worried about my own situation at all we have good dry ground which was a real life saver this year along with a weeks silage left but the 3 dairy farmers bordering us are really doing it hard all are out of silage since march we even sold 200 ton to one neighbour who was out since feb to keep him going but looking at these lads none have silage ground closed up and could safely say none have more then 5-6 days left ahead of there cows coupled with the fact most of their land is now ungrazeable where do these lads go if the weather dosent turn and quick can safely say a record number of cull cows will be slaughtered this year on both dairy and suckler farms.

delaval

Soil temp 9.4 dropping slowly unfortunately

delaval

jaymla627 wrote: »

Have 25 days left of covers of 1000kg plus with 30 acreas of silage ground closed up on outfarms since 1 st april hoping to cut 1 june still feeding 7 kg meal made up of 3.5 kg of soya hulls and 3.5 kg 16 precent dairy nut, not really worried about my own situation at all we have good dry ground which was a real life saver this year along with a weeks silage left but the 3 dairy farmers bordering us are really doing it hard all are out of silage since march we even sold 200 ton to one neighbour who was out since feb to keep him going but looking at these lads none have silage ground closed up and could safely say none have more then 5-6 days left ahead of there cows coupled with the fact most of their land is now ungrazeable where do these lads go if the weather dosent turn and quick can safely say a record number of cull cows will be slaughtered this year on both dairy and suckler farms.

I think we all know people in this situation. My tuppence would be to cull all non performing and anything that is likely to come under pressure. That is only part of it as the remainder have to be fed. I would suggest buying a few lorries of that maize that Glanbia are importing and clamping it to feed along with what ever limited amount of grass that's available. This available at €100/tonne 26%starch and with Dept subsidy is costing farmer €65/tonne net.

It's critical that all remaining cows and heifers are on arising plain of nutrition now at breeding time. I think that Oad has a role here, what ever about this year it's all about survival in their situation but the cows must be in calf for next year or their business is gone.

I think people need to ask themselves questions like you're asking and deal with the situation before it becomes a very long term problem. This situation could have a 4-5 year fallout if not dealt with as you are suggesting.

I fortunately have never been in this situation and I am sure the stress and worry are big issues also. These are my thoughts I could be as wrong as hell but cows must be kept milking for income and got in calf for the future.

One question, you've noticed the problem and know the solution do your neighbours?

jaymla627

The short answer is no alot have their heads still in the sand, have to laugh one guy went from 60 cows last year to 110 this year on 90 acreas of what best could be described as wet ground in a good year has been buying silage in since feb, cows are in fulltime on a diet of 7 kg of 18% nut 9 kg of soya hulls and the remainder made up of whatever silage he can get his hands on cows are only milking 25 litres at 4% butterfat 3.3% protein pure madness , the funny thing is tryed to buy 20 heifers of this guy in december was offering 1,200 for what where plain commercial freisian heifers got laughed out of the yard wanted 1,500 since then was offered them at a 1,000 from the same guy in april had heifers bought else where and now he cant give away his cows/heifers , just shows that in alot of cases people that expanded foolishly/didnt see the bigger picture are really getting shown up this year.

whelan1

good few heifers etc on done deal , most ads are saying farmer is changing system of farming.... hailstones here at the minute:eek:

delaval

jaymla627 wrote: »

The short answer is no alot have their heads still in the sand, have to laugh one guy went from 60 cows last year to 110 this year on 90 acreas of what best could be described as wet ground in a good year has been buying silage in since feb, cows are in fulltime on a diet of 7 kg of 18% nut 9 kg of soya hulls and the remainder made up of whatever silage he can get his hands on cows are only milking 25 litres at 4% butterfat 3.3% protein pure madness , the funny thing is tryed to buy 20 heifers of this guy in december was offering 1,200 for what where plain commercial freisian heifers got laughed out of the yard wanted 1,500 since then was offered them at a 1,000 from the same guy in april had heifers bought else where and now he cant give away his cows/heifers , just shows that in alot of cases people that expanded foolishly/didnt see the bigger picture are really getting shown up this year.

Complete lack of planning/ management. The limiting factor in most business' is the manager.........the nut behind the wheel!!!

PatQfarmer

delaval wrote: »

Complete lack of planning/ management. The limiting factor in most business' is the manager.........the nut behind the wheel!!!

Last year a "young" dairy farmer told me he was going to expand like mad after quota was gone. I told him there is always a quota, land and it's output capacity. Think this last 12 months has made him understand...

Timmaay

Can safely say I'm that solder also Pat ha!

delaval

Soil temp 9.8
Afc 668
Per cow 168
Gr 60
Sr 3.96

We have dropped to 2 kg 12% nut. Growth was 54 last week so no major improvement. We have paddocks that must be taken out asap but I am going to chance waiting a few days

Blue Holland

delaval wrote: »

Soil temp 9.8
Afc 668
Per cow 168
Gr 60
Sr 3.96

We have dropped to 2 kg 12% nut. Growth was 54 last week so no major improvement. We have paddocks that must be taken out asap but I am going to chance waiting a few days

Do ya think with a lot of N spread, that this could be a prob with quality of bales. Have couple of paddocks with covers of 2200 or so, how many bales to the acre would ya get, calculations tell me 6 but hard to see it. Weather looks like could be better after wednesday.

delaval

Blue Holland wrote: »

Do ya think with a lot of N spread, that this could be a prob with quality of bales. Have couple of paddocks with covers of 2200 or so, how many bales to the acre would ya get, calculations tell me 6 but hard to see it. Weather looks like could be better after wednesday.

We don't have any bother. We always need for July as we can burn up not likely this year though. What's you sr 2200 very high.

Blue Holland

delaval wrote: »

We don't have any bother. We always need for July as we can burn up not likely this year though. What's you sr 2200 very high.

When covers hit 1600 i skipped them, plan on cutting as soon as weather allows.
Sr is 3.6 at d min on grazing area with paddocks to be taking out included, 3.95 without, have 50 acres closed up for silage that was'nt grazed. Sr will be back to 2.8 in july. Also burn up very quick here, how's soil moisture with you at the moment, showers of last week just keeping things goin here, i know lads don't want to hear it but could do with good nites rain, was hard to get pigtail posts in ground early last week.

freedominacup

Blue Holland wrote: »

When covers hit 1600 i skipped them, plan on cutting as soon as weather allows.
Sr is 3.6 at d min on grazing area with paddocks to be taking out included, 3.95 without, have 50 acres closed up for silage that was'nt grazed. Sr will be back to 2.8 in july. Also burn up very quick here, how's soil moisture with you at the moment, showers of last week just keeping things goin here, i know lads don't want to hear it but could do with good nites rain, was hard to get pigtail posts in ground early last week.

You are absolutely guaranteed enough rain. Now never express a desire for more rain again. I wasat a discussion group meeting at th end of March 2012 and lads were looking for a "drop of rain to keep things going". Look how that worked out:(

delaval

Walked silage ground after milking. A mixed bag to say the least. Was hoping to bring in about 30% next week for winter cows. I was disappointed with what I saw. 20% excellent and on target 60% needs two weeks and sun but 20% was shocking. All pastures are no older than 6 years have gotten 6000 gls slurry and 120 units of N.

The area I was most let down by was newly seeded in April 12. It flew after second split of N and stood still for the last 10 days it is now losing its colour so I decided to top up with a bag of ASN tomorrow.

As we do work our selves bar wagon I hoped to split cutting in 2 periods looks like it will all come together now.

Here's hoping for some heat or we will be short of silage, after emptying the pits for the neighbours. At least there is no shortage of straw around here at harvest.

I'd say dry cows will be on straw and hulls for their period out of the parlour.

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Walked silage ground after milking. A mixed bag to say the least. Was hoping to bring in about 30% next week for winter cows. I was disappointed with what I saw. 20% excellent and on target 60% needs two weeks and sun but 20% was shocking. All pastures are no older than 6 years have gotten 6000 gls slurry and 120 units of N.

The area I was most let down by was newly seeded in April 12. It flew after second split of N and stood still for the last 10 days it is now losing its colour so I decided to top up with a bag of ASN tomorrow.

As we do work our selves bar wagon I hoped to split cutting in 2 periods looks like it will all come together now.

Here's hoping for some heat or we will be short of silage, after emptying the pits for the neighbours. At least there is no shortage of straw around here at harvest.

I'd say dry cows will be on straw and hulls for their period out of the parlour.

120 units of Urea? Maybe there is a reason why AN is expensive over Urea:)

6k gls of cow slurry probably doesn't supply enough of the goodies needed. was it out of lagoon or tower by any chance.

Viewtodiefor

Blue Holland wrote: »

When covers hit 1600 i skipped them, plan on cutting as soon as weather allows.
Sr is 3.6 at d min on grazing area with paddocks to be taking out included, 3.95 without, have 50 acres closed up for silage that was'nt grazed. Sr will be back to 2.8 in july. Also burn up very quick here, how's soil moisture with you at the moment, showers of last week just keeping things goin here, i know lads don't want to hear it but could do with good nites rain, was hard to get pigtail posts in ground early last week.

Never never ever look for rain!!!! It's a certainty in this country u get rain! Don't even think it!!! My god!!

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

120 units of Urea? Maybe there is a reason why AN is expensive over Urea:)

6k gls of cow slurry probably doesn't supply enough of the goodies needed. was it out of lagoon or tower by any chance.

It was lagoon slurry, I never count it in my calculations. Urea only on index 4, Cut Sward + urea on index 3 and 18-6-12 + urea on index 2.

mf240

Are your indexes mixed up delaval?

I spread a bag and a half of can to the acre 6 weeks ago and a bag to the acre two weeks ago on dairy platform. could I spread more now or is there enough. I was going to do the last 8 plots grazed with another shot.