Grass Measuring

delaval

mf240 wrote: »

Are your indexes mixed up delaval?

I spread a bag and a half of can to the acre 6 weeks ago and a bag to the acre two weeks ago on dairy platform. could I spread more now or is there enough. I was going to do the last 8 plots grazed with another shot.

To me they look ok maybe youve spotted a problem:mad::mad:

You would need to have the vast majority of your N out before July as we should be in peak growth now(I hope I'm wrong). If thats all you have out and have any kind of a stocking rate I would blanket spread the whole place with a bag and a half next week. You only have 68 units out to date about half the recommended amount, but then again maybe you couldn't get out till 6 ks ago. You need to take advantage of any growth that is to come, the longest day is only 5 weeks away(sorry everyone).

The best return of all farm inputs is NPandK

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

Walked silage ground after milking. A mixed bag to say the least. Was hoping to bring in about 30% next week for winter cows. I was disappointed with what I saw. 20% excellent and on target 60% needs two weeks and sun but 20% was shocking. All pastures are no older than 6 years have gotten 6000 gls slurry and 120 units of N.

The area I was most let down by was newly seeded in April 12. It flew after second split of N and stood still for the last 10 days it is now losing its colour so I decided to top up with a bag of ASN tomorrow.

As we do work our selves bar wagon I hoped to split cutting in 2 periods looks like it will all come together now.

Here's hoping for some heat or we will be short of silage, after emptying the pits for the neighbours. At least there is no shortage of straw around here at harvest.

I'd say dry cows will be on straw and hulls for their period out of the parlour.

Just back from walking
Mine and was hopping to cut in about a week to 10 days but definitely looking at 2 to 3 weeks.2 weeks of warm sunny weather would be a serious tonic for it though.one thing I did notice though wad a lot of purple tipped leaves in 2 fields.of more immediate concern is 2 paddocks I've out for wrapsthere is a cover of 2200 on them and was hopping to have them baled and back into system now.hopefully might get them between Sunday and Tuesday if not may be forced into grazing them as am stocked at 4.2 and growth has slashed from nearly 80 last week to 45 this week.lots of heavy showers,cool temps and utilisation suffering a bit so have bought back in the strip wire and back to 24 hour blocks on dryish days and 12 on wet days

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Just back from walking
Mine and was hopping to cut in about a week to 10 days but definitely looking at 2 to 3 weeks.2 weeks of warm sunny weather would be a serious tonic for it though.one thing I did notice though wad a lot of purple tipped leaves in 2 fields.of more immediate concern is 2 paddocks I've out for wrapsthere is a cover of 2200 on them and was hopping to have them baled and back into system now.hopefully might get them between Sunday and Tuesday if not may be forced into grazing them as am stocked at 4.2 and growth has slashed from nearly 80 last week to 45 this week.lots of heavy showers,cool temps and utilisation suffering a bit so have bought back in the strip wire and back to 24 hour blocks on dryish days and 12 on wet days

I noticed the purple too, what is it?

Were your knees wet Mine cleaned the wellies trousers fairly dry:eek::eek:

whelan1

our grass was purple a month or so ago... it was the cold wind that caused it

mf240

I usually do the whole grazing area the one day with fert. is this a bad job. should I be spreading a few paddocks a week? Or doing it in two halves? thoughts anyone?

delaval

mf240 wrote: »

I usually do the whole grazing area the one day with fert. is this a bad job. should I be spreading a few paddocks a week? Or doing it in two halves? thoughts anyone?

There's a school of thought that says blanket is best. I blanket but only cause it suit unhook spreader and put away fit a few weeks at a time. Really makes no difference IMO what ever suits you

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

I noticed the purple too, what is it?

Were your knees wet Mine cleaned the wellies trousers fairly dry:eek::eek:

Yep same as barely cleared the wellie but not quite wetting the knees,Not far off though,Purple is seemingly from cold weather locking up available phosphorus.It was very evident durin april.This weather is fair depressing,Still going around in the wet suit most days.Am glad to see 6 o clock comming every evening and pop in to see the big smile on my 1 year old daughters face and forget about grass ,meal bills and the feckin weather.Really feel sorry for guys on wet land and guys with no feed whatsoever thats real hardship.Would regard myself as been fairly optimistic and trying to find the best of a bad situation,Good thing in current times...

Injuryprone

delaval wrote: »

I noticed the purple too, what is it?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?p=72191290

Timmaay

Jesus things must be bad when even delaval and mahoney are sounding downbeat and worried! Bit like the fodder crisis, I really knew things were bad when Stanflt posted up back in April that he was extremely worried about his maize and silage possible running out within afew weeks (while most the rest of the country had well hit the back walls of the pits!)

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Jesus things must be bad when even delaval and mahoney are sounding downbeat and worried! Bit like the fodder crisis, I really knew things were bad when Stanflt posted up back in April that he was extremely worried about his maize and silage possible running out within afew weeks (while most the rest of the country had well hit the back walls of the pits!)

Wouldnt say worried ,More like p1ssed off!!!,If this continues for another few weeks though i think ill sell up and move the cows to france and get a few on here to send me over tankers of water every week !!

bob charles

purple leaves is P deficiency to the plant, this is not to say there isnt adequate P in the ground but it just isnt accessible to the plant during periods of cold weather. I remember hearing a report done by an ag consultancy who were advising a multinational farming company about farming in NZ and they were recommending taking P levels to 20mg/l:eek:. whats the corrective action for the purple leaves - at this stage there is only one woman who can sort the problem - mother nature.

As a side there needs to be a serious push by or research organisation on the topic of soil science. Its the most important thing on your farm and most guys dont realise the damage they are doing to the resource that has taken millions of years to become what it is.

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

It was lagoon slurry, I never count it in my calculations. Urea only on index 4, Cut Sward + urea on index 3 and 18-6-12 + urea on index 2.

And which fields are showing poorest growth, bet I can guess!!!

how many bags of cut sward and 18.6.12 did you spread?

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

And which fields are showing poorest growth, bet I can guess!!!

how many bags of cut sward and 18.6.12 did you spread?

The ones that didn't get 100% urea but then they are index 4, though hving said that the one that i'll spread ASN on tomorrow is 4 with ph of 6.5.

3x18 + urea
2.5x cut + urea

delaval

Timmaay wrote: »

Jesus things must be bad when even delaval and mahoney are sounding downbeat and worried! Bit like the fodder crisis, I really knew things were bad when Stanflt posted up back in April that he was extremely worried about his maize and silage possible running out within afew weeks (while most the rest of the country had well hit the back walls of the pits!)

Not too worried just in an ideal situation I would like to spred the work a bit, cows milking well plenty of grass, land dry, loads for ai only downer today was I got called to the school young lad acting the brat. Would love to have done my fathers trick and lose my boot in him but am informed it's not allowed anymore. Anymore bollix'n and no yard for him after school, this really works as he hates to miss the milking arrives on his bike after home work every evening, complete opposite to his old man.

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Wouldnt say worried ,More like p1ssed off!!!

delaval wrote: »

Not too worried just in an ideal situation I would like to spred the work a bit

Ha that post was alittle tongue in cheek, I shoulda thrown in afew . All we can do is press on as usual, with the normal flexibility with dates etc and let the weather gods decide the rest. If only we could get a fair price for the milk, it would take the sting off this year! Could yas imagine a 2009 thrown in the mix this year :eek:, worried wouldn't be the start of it if the milkprice was only say 25cent!

mf240

rolled barley was 130 and citrus was 115 in 2009 so was a help.

Glanbia are really taking the piss at the moment with their failure to rise price. Dragging their heels until the peak months are over.

Timmaay

Thats it totally, as was said the other day supplies will tighten as a result, farmers who are in trouble with money/fodder etc as is will be tipped further over the edge, keeping the show on the road in years like this is the most important thing! I know neighbours who say they are still paying back loans etc after the poor milk price in 2009!

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

The ones that didn't get 100% urea but then they are index 4, though hving said that the one that i'll spread ASN on tomorrow is 4 with ph of 6.5.

3x18 + urea
2.5x cut + urea

did you mix up things here. Taught you put the cut and 18's on the lower index's

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

did you mix up things here. Taught you put the cut and 18's on the lower index's

Your right it the other way round

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Your right it the other way round

so your best silage is on the land that got urea and no P and K although that is on index 4 for both?

what levels of index 4 if you dont mind me asking

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

so your best silage is on the land that got urea and no P and K although that is on index 4 for both?

what levels of index 4 if you dont mind me asking

Best on 4 I will check tomorrow it's in office I am about to watch Leinster and see can I open a set in a field of malting barley

delaval

Beautiful morning a lot for ai and grass is motoring again glad to have spread bag of urea last week.

I really hope that things improve on the heavier ground as people really need a break. All this extra feeding and large feed bills along with the usual ones would grind anyone down.

Timmaay

Growth going to hit the 100 for the next few wks please???? Reminds me I need to go out and do a farm walk today, will leave it until after the milking, taking the afternoon off!

just do it

Lads
My grazing block is like the photos of stanflt's poorest 10% over on the photo thread. How in Gods name do I start measuring with land like that? The farm is representative enough of a lot of farms in West Clare. I'm lucky that I've roughly 30% dry silage ground but the rest requires management in an average year, never mind a year like this!

just do it

Ready to go:


Going to start with the silage field and see how it goes I suppose the weekly walk is the most valuable part of the exercise, accurate figures will come with time.

TEAT SQUEEZER

just do it wrote: »

Ready to go:


Going to start with the silage field and see how it goes I suppose the weekly walk is the most valuable part of the exercise, accurate figures will come with time.

looks like your dog is another one with reservations about this whole grass measuring lark

delaval

Afc 700
Per cow 180
Gr 63
Sr 3.98
This cover was as of Monday
Recon gr is hitting 100 taking a lot of bales today

PatQfarmer

delaval wrote: »

Afc 700
Per cow 180
Gr 63
Sr 3.98
This cover was as of Monday
Recon gr is hitting 100 taking a lot of bales today

Yep, hope I get some bales over next 2 weeks. Skipping a few paddocks now. They have 1800-2200kg in them. Would you let bulk up a while or take out now? SR reduced to 1400kg/HA, grass building fast in front of them.

delaval

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Yep, hope I get some bales over next 2 weeks. Skipping a few paddocks now. They have 1800-2200kg in them. Would you let bulk up a while or take out now? SR reduced to 1400kg/HA, grass building fast in front of them.

Take immediately is my advice and you'll find you'll get a lot of bales might have to pay baler man by the Km!!!

delaval

80 bales in the bank this evening. 2.3 bales/acre really good gear.

kowtow

delaval wrote: »

80 bales in the bank this evening. 2.3 bales/acre really good gear.

What was the cover like before cutting? You didn't happen to take a picture?

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

80 bales in the bank this evening. 2.3 bales/acre really good gear.

you lads must have very understanding contractors. talking to one of mine the other day and he was after doing a few acre paddock jobs, no job bigger than 20 bales. he reckons he will have to charge over a tenner for baling and wrapping. he is not a happy bunny. Thats expensive grub

mf240

10 a bale for 80 + dmd silage from grass that was going to be wasted by cows? Cheap as chips bob.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

you lads must have very understanding contractors. talking to one of mine the other day and he was after doing a few acre paddock jobs, no job bigger than 20 bales. he reckons he will have to charge over a tenner for baling and wrapping. he is not a happy bunny. Thats expensive grub

Local contractor around here who specialises in bales, most crews are self propelled at silage, has a min charge of €80/machine to turn up. No problem if you are doing a reasonable bit. It's not added on to price just a minimum charge. If you only make ten bales they'll cost you €8 a piece baled and wrapped. Delavals guy got 80 bales and was paid at the gate and there'll be plenty more over the season so he's got little to bitch about.

bob charles

mf240 wrote: »

10 a bale for 80 + dmd silage from grass that was going to be wasted by cows? Cheap as chips bob.

10 a bale to cut and rake, 8 to bale and wrap, 2.5 for plastic, 1 for stacking/haulage, fert @ 1.5units a day @ 30 days? = 45 units of N and a bit of PK, so another 2.50 for fert giving a total cost of €24 a bale. circa €100 dm ton @ 650cals kilo, before land charge:P, best not go there

Cheap as chips? maybe I too used to Eddie Rockets :rolleyes:

would it have being wasted? or is the grazing area is too big for the cow numbers? Im back to being on about much shorter rotations now. My old chestnut is - the best grass grows overnight

mf240

bob charles wrote: »

10 a bale to cut and rake, 8 to bale and wrap, 2.5 for plastic, 1 for stacking/haulage, fert @ 1.5units a day @ 30 days? = 45 units of N and a bit of PK, so another 2.50 for fert giving a total cost of €24 a bale. circa €100 dm ton @ 650cals kilo, before land charge:P, best not go there

Cheap as chips? maybe I too used to Eddie Rockets :rolleyes:

would it have being wasted? or is the grazing area is too big for the cow numbers? Im back to being on about much shorter rotations now. My old chestnut is - the best grass grows overnight

Yes bob.

Now do your sums from where we're at.

The grass is grown and has been Identified as a surplus.

delaval

kowtow wrote: »

What was the cover like before cutting? You didn't happen to take a picture?

13-1500 max

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

you lads must have very understanding contractors. talking to one of mine the other day and he was after doing a few acre paddock jobs, no job bigger than 20 bales. he reckons he will have to charge over a tenner for baling and wrapping. he is not a happy bunny. Thats expensive grub

He'll do over 1200 bales and get paid every time he leaves. If he doesn't like it I will get in wagon and he looses a good customer.
We do hauling and stacking, if he does we pay per hour for haulage. We have a few area round the farm where we stack and bring to yard in winter when not so busy. We also have it in 30 foot Swartz for him

Blue Holland

bob charles wrote: »

10 a bale to cut and rake, 8 to bale and wrap, 2.5 for plastic, 1 for stacking/haulage, fert @ 1.5units a day @ 30 days? = 45 units of N and a bit of PK, so another 2.50 for fert giving a total cost of €24 a bale. circa €100 dm ton @ 650cals kilo, before land charge:P, best not go there

Cheap as chips? maybe I too used to Eddie Rockets :rolleyes:

would it have being wasted? or is the grazing area is too big for the cow numbers? Im back to being on about much shorter rotations now. My old chestnut is - the best grass grows overnight

What bout loss of milk yield 1.5 litres day easy from grazing bigger covers 50c+ cow/day. Cost of having to top after grazing, poorer grass growth, dose'nt be long adding up.
As for grazing area too big, what demand do you reckon should be working with?

Dampintheattic

Never knew, you had to bring a few cans of beer with you, whan measuring grass :Phttp://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?11665-Strip-Grazing

mahoney_j

bob charles wrote: »

10 a bale to cut and rake, 8 to bale and wrap, 2.5 for plastic, 1 for stacking/haulage, fert @ 1.5units a day @ 30 days? = 45 units of N and a bit of PK, so another 2.50 for fert giving a total cost of €24 a bale. circa €100 dm ton @ 650cals kilo, before land charge:P, best not go there

Cheap as chips? maybe I too used to Eddie Rockets :rolleyes:

would it have being wasted? or is the grazing area is too big for the cow numbers? Im back to being on about much shorter rotations now. My old chestnut is - the best grass grows overnight

De laval was 100% correct to wrap lads but at covers around 1300 it was still graze able without any knock on affect on yield or solids.i wrapped 20 acres of milking block this week with covers ranging from 1500 to 2200 and got 41 top notch bales.thos is where good grassland management and grass measuring pays off if you have the balls to trust it.you have the added benefit of clean swards with leafy covers conning back within 3 weeks.my contractor charges 6 euro a bale to bale and wrap with a fusion baler.i mow Tedd out and pay a guy 8 euro an acre to take into 30 ft swarths.

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

De laval was 100% correct to wrap lads but at covers around 1300 it was still graze able without any knock on affect on yield or solids.i wrapped 20 acres of milking block this week with covers ranging from 1500 to 2200 and got 41 top notch bales.thos is where good grassland management and grass measuring pays off if you have the balls to trust it.you have the added benefit of clean swards with leafy covers conning back within 3 weeks.my contractor charges 6 euro a bale to bale and wrap with a fusion baler.i mow Tedd out and pay a guy 8 euro an acre to take into 30 ft swarths.

The reason I took 1300's was we have quiet a few and need to speed up rotation

bob charles

mahoney_j wrote: »

De laval was 100% correct to wrap lads but at covers around 1300 it was still graze able without any knock on affect on yield or solids.i wrapped 20 acres of milking block this week with covers ranging from 1500 to 2200 and got 41 top notch bales.thos is where good grassland management and grass measuring pays off if you have the balls to trust it.you have the added benefit of clean swards with leafy covers conning back within 3 weeks.my contractor charges 6 euro a bale to bale and wrap with a fusion baler.i mow Tedd out and pay a guy 8 euro an acre to take into 30 ft swarths.

Im not saying he done anything wrong, just that it is far from cheap energy and you needed a patient contractor especially if making small amount of bales and allot of acres. How come you didnt leave till today and stick it in the pit?

bob charles

Blue Holland wrote: »

What bout loss of milk yield 1.5 litres day easy from grazing bigger covers 50c+ cow/day. Cost of having to top after grazing, poorer grass growth, dose'nt be long adding up.
As for grazing area too big, what demand do you reckon should be working with?

I wasnt advocating grazing higher covers, I feel the opposite should be the case and graze lower covers that industry advocates.

I cant put a figure on what stocking rate you dairy guys with cows should be at as I have none and on my farm there is every weight of an animal grazing so to work out my stocking rate would take along time, all I know is im way way over stocked. eg cull cows are getting a buffer of 7kgs dm of high concentrate TMR on grass to just meet demand, most cattle still indoors and grass isnt growing here either. This seems like a waste of a year :rolleyes:

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

Im not saying he done anything wrong, just that it is far from cheap energy and you needed a patient contractor especially if making small amount of bales and allot of acres. How come you didnt leave till today and stick it in the pit?

Bob I told you before it's my sunny disposition. Anyway what are you doing on a grass measuring thread it's only for dairy farmers

darragh_haven

delaval wrote: »

Bob I told you before it's my sunny disposition. Anyway what are you doing on a grass measuring thread it's only for dairy farmers

Down with that sort of thing. Careful now.... Delaval

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

Im not saying he done anything wrong, just that it is far from cheap energy and you needed a patient contractor especially if making small amount of bales and allot of acres. How come you didnt leave till today and stick it in the pit?

Reason for baling low yield wagon charge per acre. We also can dry up quickly here so we some times have to feed saved bales.If I put in pit it will never be as good, this stuff is as good as grazed grass.

just do it

bob charles wrote: »

I wasnt advocating grazing higher covers, I feel the opposite should be the case and graze lower covers that industry advocates.

I cant put a figure on what stocking rate you dairy guys with cows should be at as I have none and on my farm there is every weight of an animal grazing so to work out my stocking rate would take along time, all I know is im way way over stocked. eg cull cows are getting a buffer of 7kgs dm of high concentrate TMR on grass to just meet demand, most cattle still indoors and grass isnt growing here either. This seems like a waste of a year :rolleyes:

Hmm, I follow the logic of delaval's system taking top quality forage when he's surplus grass growth. Conversely Bob I can't get to grips with your system. Surely the cost of saving top quality bales at the time of year of peak grass growth is a better economical model than being overstocked, still having cattle housed, and having to supplement the diet of cull cows just to meet demand?! I fear the green-eyed monster has taken hold

bob charles

just do it wrote: »

Hmm, I follow the logic of delaval's system taking top quality forage when he's surplus grass growth. Conversely Bob I can't get to grips with your system. Surely the cost of saving top quality bales at the time of year of peak grass growth is a better economical model than being overstocked, still having cattle housed, and having to supplement the diet of cull cows just to meet demand?! I fear the green-eyed monster has taken hold

I wouldnt be overstocked if the grass grew, then again I wouldnt have as many cattle on hands if the grass grew for everyone else either. I only own 25% of land farmed and there is no suitable land for rent so kinda stuck doing what im doing.
With beef animals you just can drop in and out of grazing like dairy cows. Our grazing period this year for a forward beef animal is going to be under 100 days (20May to 1st September) after this point performance will drop like a lead balloon. its mostly store cattle that graze most of my grass

Costs just bug me unfortunately

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Reason for baling low yield wagon charge per acre. We also can dry up quickly here so we some times have to feed saved bales.If I put in pit it will never be as good, this stuff is as good as grazed grass.

ah I have you, wagon would only work here on hourly rate as usually only doing light cuts so it can work out very cheap per ac. Im shifting to having the silage contract grown and delivered