Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

whirlpool

My name is URL wrote: »

Did they actually state that the reason they refused him admission is because he's in a wheelchair? Not that I'm doubting it.. but I'd be reluctant to react angrily to it based on just one person's account.

You've basically just described the entire internet in ten words.

Czarcasm

mango salsa wrote: »

That venue is downstairs

Call me cynical, but even from the language used in the OP, I truly have a sneaking suspicion that Graham and his friend knew this and wanted to make a point.

I have a friend in a wheelchair and I get around on crutches myself and we've never had any issues getting into any nightclub/bar, etc.

Only once have I ever been knocked over on my back by a guy who was drunk and fell back himself by accident, but that's the risk you take.

My friend I DO worry about her flipping backwards in the wheelchair and doing herself a serious injury, so I could understand if door staff were to refuse either or both of us entry for our own safety.

I'm all for equality, rights, etc for disabled people, but I'd sooner be more mindful of the practical considerations.

Micky Dolenz

In fairness to the business, they seem to have dealt with it quickly and without reservation. That has to be applauded in a day and age where denial or a wall of silence is usually the first port of call.

Madam_X

Still no answer as to what reason was given for refusing him entry.

Micky Dolenz

Madam_X wrote: »

Still no answer as to what reason was given for refusing him entry.

Reading the OP and the apology from management, it would appear the reason that he was not allowed access was that he is a wheel chair user.

Lord Trollington

marcsignal wrote: »

He had a good enough reason to post in on FB himself, the quote in the OP were his own words, and they have now posted a full apology on their FB page. I think they know their position.

Anyway, result

They know their position alright. They have been backed into a corner by baseless claims on facebook.

It has generated 20,000 likes in 4 hours. By morning at that rate it will have 80,000 likes. Thats a lot of bad publicity.

I have seen a similar complaint on the facebook page of the company where I work but a different department. I knew the full story and the one which was posted to the page couldn't have been much different. On investigation into the post it got 40 likes, every like was a friend of the person who posted it.

That hows this mob frenzy mentality gets started.

Brendan Flowers

marcsignal wrote: »

He had a good enough reason to post in on FB himself, the quote in the OP were his own words, and they have now posted a full apology on their FB page. I think they know their position.

Anyway, result

We got to hear one person's side of the story. A witch hunt was started against the venue. Their FB page bombarded with abusive comments forcing them to do the only thing possible not to make the situation any worse...accept blame and apologise. And now a man has been fired without even a chance to give his side of the story. Congrats OP if this is what you consider a result.

Ruudi_Mentari

Well I know my dad was wheelchair reliant due to losing a leg and he never had that issue, not in high Wycombe anyhow. Where he'd moved to and even owned a pub there in that condition.

Personally I think you should make concessions, more for such than deny entitlements more.

-but If the place is indeed cramped then fcuk it. I dunno that place

Fr_Dougal

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Reading the OP and the apology from management, it would appear the reason that he was not allowed access was that he is a wheel chair user.

Or that a security guard/bouncer didn't follow proper guidelines.

2Mad2BeMad

he cant get in
because their is a downstairs to get into the club
staff are not letting him in not because hes in a wheelchair
because it could be too dangerous
imagin he fell out of the chair down the stairs? the club would have to close , because they would get their ass handed to them in court because they let him in

its nothing to do with him been in a wheelchair
if their was a lift down to the club well then he would get in
his friends can of course argue the point saying they will help him up and down the stairs but that fact is , their not insured to do that in the club , so the owners of the club would not have a leg to stand on in court (excuse the pun)

although i do think the staff handled the situation terrible, bouncers arnt exactly the nicest when it comes to arguing at the front doors haha , and not too mention be embarressing for the fella like that
he should take them to court anyway because it would be a win win from him

Micky Dolenz

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Or that a security guard/bouncer didn't follow proper guidelines.

It would certainly appear that way. The door person refused him entry as he was in a wheelchair.This was not in line with management procedure and a contract was lost over it.

I think they handled the situation very well.

joetoad

We heard this from one side of the party. He could have been scuttered, gave the bouncers abuse or anything. I have been refused entry to many a night club over the years. Maybe I should take them to the cleaners too? Just because he's in a wheelchair he shouldn't be getting special cripple treatment.

mackg

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

In fairness to the business, they seem to have dealt with it quickly and without reservation. That has to be applauded in a day and age where denial or a wall of silence is usually the first port of call.

They took the course of action that meant the best outcome for them. If it had been the owner or one of his family working there that refused the guy entry do you think they would have been so quick to hang them out to dry? If the guy was refused because he was in a wheelchair then I'd be as disgusted as anyone but as it stands we have no evidence of that.

P_1

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

he cant get in
because their is a downstairs to get into the club
staff are not letting him in not because hes in a wheelchair
because it could be too dangerous
imagin he fell out of the chair down the stairs? the club would have to close , because they would get their ass handed to them in court because they let him in

its nothing to do with him been in a wheelchair
if their was a lift down to the club well then he would get in
his friends can of course argue the point saying they will help him up and down the stairs but that fact is , their not insured to do that in the club , so the owners of the club would not have a leg to stand on in court (excuse the pun)

although i do think the staff handled the situation terrible, bouncers arnt exactly the nicest when it comes to arguing at the front doors haha , and not too mention be embarressing for the fella like that
he should take them to court anyway because it would be a win win from him

Stop it right now, you're making far too much sense. There is a witch hunt on after all

Fighting Irish

first world problems

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Micky Dolenz

mackg wrote: »

They took the course of action that meant the best outcome for them. If it had been the owner or one of his family working there that refused the guy entry do you think they would have been so quick to hang them out to dry? If the guy was refused because he was in a wheelchair then I'd be as disgusted as anyone but as it stands we have no evidence of that.

You are only speculating as to what they would have done if the door person was a relative, good chance that door person would have followed the company procedure and this would never have happened.

All I am going on is what the limited information released by both parties. Both sets of information says he was denied access as he is a wheel chair user.

Artful_Badger

joetoad wrote: »

We heard this from one side of the party. He could have been scuttered, gave the bouncers abuse or anything. I have been refused entry to many a night club over the years. Maybe I should take them to the cleaners too? Just because he's in a wheelchair he shouldn't be getting special cripple treatment.

But nobody gives a fcuk when you and me are told to get lost or discriminated against. So we'd have to just take the usual complaints route and see what comes of it. This guy is in a wheelchair so he can avoid all that by posting a pic of himself looking dejected in a wheelchair on social media and whipping up an angry mob to force the nightclub into taking immediate action.

Madam_X

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You are only speculating as to what they would have done if the door person was a relative, good chance that door person would have followed the company procedure and this would never have happened.

All I am going on is what the limited information released by both parties. Both sets of information says he was denied access as he is a wheel chair user.

But you're speculating too that he was bluntly told "You can't come in, no wheelchairs" rather than being given further info as to why wheelchairs can't be accommodated. If that is the case with the venue, what choice did the bouncer have?

Fighting Irish wrote: »

first world problems

Nah it's more than just a trivial issue, as you know.

Legs.Eleven

mackg wrote: »

They took the course of action that meant the best outcome for them. If it had been the owner or one of his family working there that refused the guy entry do you think they would have been so quick to hang them out to dry? If the guy was refused because he was in a wheelchair then I'd be as disgusted as anyone but as it stands we have no evidence of that.

My friend is a good friend of his and said the reason he was given was that he was in a wheelchair. According to my friend, this guy never kicks up a fuss. So he tells me anyway.

P_1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You are only speculating as to what they would have done if the door person was a relative, good chance that door person would have followed the company procedure and this would never have happened.

All I am going on is what the limited information released by both parties. Both sets of information says he was denied access as he is a wheel chair user.

Which makes sense seeing as there is no possible way for a wheelchair user to actually get in save for the bouncers carrying him in.

If they did that there would be another screaming match going on.

Czarcasm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

They know their position alright. They have been backed into a corner by baseless claims on facebook.

It has generated 20,000 likes in 4 hours. By morning at that rate it will have 80,000 likes. Thats a lot of bad publicity.

And by next weekend it'll have all been forgotten about and the same nightclub will be packed as it ever was.

Cienciano

My mate is in a wheelchair, he can't get into loads of pubs in Dublin. Think of the pubs in Dublin city you go to, millions of them have steps in, or steps somewhere inside. We pretty much gave up on doing a 12 pubs because it's so hard to find 12 pubs in reasonable walking distance with wheelchair access

seanmacc

Did you ever notice that anytime something like this happens with any business that its always agency staff or outside contractors at fault?

God forbid that management ever take responsibility for these things

mackg

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It would certainly appear that way. The door person refused him entry as he was in a wheelchair.This was not in line with management procedure and a contract was lost over it.

I think they handled the situation very well.

The door man was fired, the company didn't lose the contract.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You are only speculating as to what they would have done if the door person was a relative, good chance that door person would have followed the company procedure and this would never have happened.

All I am going on is what the limited information released by both parties. Both sets of information says he was denied access as he is a wheel chair user.

Fair enough I'm speculating there.

The thing is though that it didn't matter what happened from here on out once word started to spread that they refused him entry because he was disabled. Word spreads and people take it as fact, see the start of this thread. How exactly were the nightclub and the security company completely unaware of this last night when the man was refused entry but were able to find out for definite that this is what happened within an hour or two of the post on FB today?

If this is a case of discrimination then it should have gone to court where the guy could have got compensation instead of some crappy FB apology.

Micky Dolenz

Madam_X wrote: »

But you're speculating too that he was bluntly told "You can't come in, no wheelchairs" rather than being given further info as to why wheelchairs can't be accommodated. If that is the case with the venue, what choice did the bouncer have?
.

I am only reading what both parties said and not speculating.
Have you read the apology from the club? What do you make of it?

Boskowski

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

To be fair maybe you should make the effort to find out what the "excuse" was before you start slandering a business.

Although if they refused him without a genuine reason then he's dead right to take action against them.

I believe a lot of people are being refused admission to a nightclub without a genuine reason. He's wearing runners too.

The Big Red Button

minidazzler wrote: »

That said, there is no lift in the place I work, Wheelchair users still get in in any way they want because bouncers will lift them and their wheelchairs if needs be. Where I work is full of stairs, and yet we'll still make it happen. Why can Madison not?

Fair play to them, but.

What if there's a fire? Will the bouncers be there to carry the wheelchair up the stairs?

What if they can't make it there in time?

What if everyone manages to make it out of the club, and the wheelchair user is left behind, because the bouncers can't make it down, and the person's friends assume the bouncers will have taken care of him?

It's a very real and genuine health and safety concern, and not necessarily anything to do with discrimination at all.

md23040

P_1 wrote: »

Which makes sense seeing as there is no possible way for a wheelchair user to actually get in save for the bouncers carrying him in.

If they did that there would be another screaming match going on.

So the bouncer can't let someone in because of the stairs and no wheelchair access and then gets sacked (leased premises).

That's a brilliant result OP. Why don't you get your little camera out in other venues across Dublin with inadequate facilities, and force staff into a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation then destroy someone's business whilst forcing more people out of their jobs in a complete surreptitious and underhand manner.

You should have consulted the owners on the Monday and if they did not deal with the situation in a pragmatic manner, then you could have legitimate rights then to go down the internet witch hunt route.

Eod100

Couple of things: 1) I thought in theory public venues were legally obliged to be accessible.

2) Supposing venues aren't accessible to people in wheelchairs due to having stairs and no lifts, what happens then? As in is there some sort of punishment for venues who don't comply with these rules?

LizT

Fluffy Bunny Rabid wrote: »

Fair play to them, but.

What if there's a fire? Will the bouncers be there to carry the wheelchair up the stairs?

What if they can't make it there in time?

What if everyone manages to make it out of the club, and the wheelchair user is left behind, because the bouncers can't make it down, and the person's friends assume the bouncers will have taken care of him?

It's a very real and genuine health and safety concern, and not necessarily anything to do with discrimination at all.

And what happens if the bouncers trip and fall while carrying someone in a wheelchair and the person in the wheelchair is injured? It's a very real health and safety risk.

Micky Dolenz

mackg wrote: »

The door man was fired, the company didn't lose the contract.



Fair enough I'm speculating there.

The thing is though that it didn't matter what happened from here on out once word started to spread that they refused him entry because he was disabled. Word spreads and people take it as fact, see the start of this thread. How exactly were the nightclub and the security company completely unaware of this last night when the man was refused entry but were able to find out for definite that this is what happened within an hour or two of the post on FB today?

If this is a case of discrimination then it should have gone to court where the guy could have got compensation instead of some crappy FB apology.

I meant the doorman's contract was lost.

I assume the guy was angry and saw it as an avenue to vent that frustration. I'm not on facebook and would go through the proper channels if I had a dispute with a company or individual.

It is a bit crazy how these FB mobs form. It seems to be becoming more and more popular.

Gorilla Rising

Czarcasm wrote: »

And by next weekend it'll have all been forgotten about and the same nightclub will be packed as it ever was.

And some poor guy has been made a scapegoat and been sacked. And for what?

This whole witch hunt based on one version of events disgusts me to be honest.

Logical_Bear

username123 wrote: »

What was the reason for refusing him entry?

they said he was off his trolley?

Cienciano

Eod100 wrote: »

Couple of things: 1) I thought in theory public venues were legally obliged to be accessible.

2) Supposing venues aren't accessible to people in wheelchairs due to having stairs and no lifts, what happens then? As in is there some sort of punishment for venues who don't comply with these rules?

As far as I know, it's only places that are being built now. Or built after a certain date, whenever the law came in.

toastedpickles

Cienciano wrote: »

As far as I know, it's only places that are being built now. Or built after a certain date, whenever the law came in.

Nope, It's all new builds have to be accessible and show a disability cert, all existing buildings can alter parts of the place to comply with building regs, if they don't, they can be brought to court for not bringing their building up to standard, as far as I know anyways

Madam_X

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Have you read the apology from the club? What do you make of it?

Yes I have. And what I make of it is: it's a deflection of responsibility to the bouncer, whereas the club itself should have had provisions for people who are in wheelchairs in the first place.

dmc17

Daveysil15 wrote: »

What was he planning on doing if he did get in?

A wheelie!

seanmacc

Fluffy Bunny Rabid wrote: »

Fair play to them, but.

What if there's a fire? Will the bouncers be there to carry the wheelchair up the stairs?

What if they can't make it there in time?

What if everyone manages to make it out of the club, and the wheelchair user is left behind, because the bouncers can't make it down, and the person's friends assume the bouncers will have taken care of him?

It's a very real and genuine health and safety concern, and not necessarily anything to do with discrimination at all.

If they carried him down the stairs there would be no problem if they invested in an evacuation chair. All wheelchair accessible buildings have to have them due to lifts not working in the case of fire. They are not expensive and require little training for staff to operate.

Eod100

Cienciano wrote: »

As far as I know, it's only places that are being built now. Or built after a certain date, whenever the law came in.

Think you're right. But say something like the Equal Status Act which prevents discrimination on the basis of disability. Would that not apply to premises with stairs which prevented wheelchair users from accessing them?

Wabbit Ears

Talking the wheelchair out of the equation completely I'd expect to be refused entry to most Dublin nightclubs on a weekend with shoes like he's wearing.

Also, Of all the clubs in the City, did he choose to goto one in a basement and no wheelchair access, I mean its not like he couldn't have spent a half second on the interwebs and figured this wasn't the best choice for a night out.

So well done mr wheelchair guy, you got a bouncer who was just doing his job fired, aren't you a can of awesome.

JONJO THE MISER

Only one man for this Job, Joe Duffy.

builditwell

Madam_X wrote: »

Yes I have. And what I make of it is: it's a deflection of responsibility to the bouncer, whereas the club itself should have had provisions for people who are in wheelchairs in the first place.

Thats complete rubbish. The club doesn't have to provide facilities for less abled access as do many other pubs and clubs in Dublin because it is not enforced. The reason for the refusal is very clear here. If there is no way of getting the wheelchaired person into the club on his or her own, then they cannot safely use the club. Working in this industry in the past as a bar manager we were advised no to lift,carry or allow a wheelchair bound person to be carried.An example which was originally posted was if a staff member of security bouncer, tripped and caused further injury etc etc etc. Really its down to MONEY. Keep the insurance down , dont have any claims,keep the liability to an absolute minium.
As of 2015 and all current buildings fall under a new less abled building guideline, this will keep happening until enforcement of the 2015 mandate comes to effect.

Eod100

toastedpickles wrote: »

Nope, It's all new builds have to be accessible and show a disability cert, all existing buildings can alter parts of the place to comply with building regs, if they don't, they can be brought to court for not bringing their building up to standard, as far as I know anyways

Can pubs/clubs be refused licenses if they're not whellchair accessible in that case? Seems like common sense to encourage premises to update their premisies..

bigpink

What reason they give?

If they have stairs but no lift what way does this stand?

builditwell

Eod100 wrote: »

Can pubs/clubs be refused licenses if they're not whellchair accessible in that case? Seems like common sense to encourage premises to update their premisies..

How much would it cost to update a place to full less abled access versus how much revenue it would bring in versus not doing it in the first place. Yes its discrimination but many places simply cannot afford the renovations to provide these services. They easily could have in the past but who cared, Certainly not the government. It was never enforced properly

Andy-Pandy

I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

username123

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them.

And was this refused by the club?

Artful_Badger

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

So in 20 years to your knowledge he's been accommodated and the one time he's not he hits the internet has a moan, gathers an angry mob, backs the club into a corner and gets a guy fired.

Sounds like a real inspiration all right. :rolleyes:

builditwell

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.[/QUOTE

So you just do exactly what staff and security are told they cannot allow in their business. Theres no way you would be in control of a situation like that. So its a rainy night u and your mates walk in pick up Grahams wheel chair, then slip and fall down the wet stairs. Whos fault is it then , somone would be loosing a job if not a few of the staff or the business completely after the claim is settled.