Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

Wabbit Ears

Artful_Badger wrote: »

So in 20 years to your knowledge he's been accommodated and the one time he's not he hits the internet has a moan, gathers an angry mob, backs the club into a corner and gets a guy fired.

Sounds like a real inspiration all right. :rolleyes:

Nail on head right there..

Problem123456

Aadhya Full Sunglasses wrote: »

Marc, I'm shocked.

You have free admission with your friend to another club, any time, just check your PM.

You're so kind maki

Eod100

builditwell wrote: »

How much would it cost to update a place to full less abled access versus how much revenue it would bring in versus not doing it in the first place. Yes its discrimination but many places simply cannot afford the renovations to provide these services. They easily could have in the past but who cared, Certainly not the government. It was never enforced properly

In that case there was a complete cop-out by venues. They had revenue in the celtic tiger years to do it then so why didn't they? A lack of enforcement on the government's part doesn't mean venues should get away scot-free.

It should be seen as an investment. Approximately 13% (others estimate it at almost 19%) of the population has some form of disability so think of all the revenue that's being missed out on. Ideally the gov would pay a contribution to any upgrades but I don't see it happening in the current climate.

Cienciano

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

Well, assuming you're all drinking, I'm surprised more people wouldn't let drunk people carry a drunk guy in a wheelchair down stairs.
We always used to ring ahead to pubs when we were heading out, and as I said, most of them said they don't have wheelchair access.

Gyalist

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

Do you think that any insurance company would be happy with you lifting him down the stairs?

Grayson

Honestly, unless I had a way to get someone in a wheelchair into and out of the building, I wouldn't let them in. If it involves carrying and the person is dropped, the premises is liable. Even if someone else says they'll carry them.

Not everywhere has to be wheelchair accessible as far as I know. If this place isn't and the bouncer was just making a common sense decision, then it's just nasty that he was fired. From what I understand the toilets are up a flight of stairs. So they're not accessible either. The guy would not need to be just carried in, but after every two pints, carried up the stairs. Either by staff who aren't trained or insured, or his mates, who are drinking too.

It's the middle of a recession and a guy's been fired because he was doing his job.

Lord Trollington wrote: »

They know their position alright. They have been backed into a corner by baseless claims on facebook.

It has generated 20,000 likes in 4 hours. By morning at that rate it will have 80,000 likes. Thats a lot of bad publicity.

I have seen a similar complaint on the facebook page of the company where I work but a different department. I knew the full story and the one which was posted to the page couldn't have been much different. On investigation into the post it got 40 likes, every like was a friend of the person who posted it.

That hows this mob frenzy mentality gets started.

And lets face it, the kind of people who get involved in that sort of thing and give abuse are generally idiots.

Wabbit Ears

It would be practically impossible to build wheelchair access to most of the basement nightclubs in Dublin. I'm all for wheelchair access but you just cant go around retrofitting every building which was built without this in mind, many of which are listed buildings.

marcsignal

Artful_Badger wrote: »

So in 20 years to your knowledge he's been accommodated and the one time he's not he hits the internet has a moan, gathers an angry mob, backs the club into a corner and gets a guy fired.

Sounds like a real inspiration all right. :rolleyes:

Clearly you don't know him :rolleyes:

md23040 wrote: »

That's a brilliant result OP.

A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

Just as an example, The Kitchen Nightclub has stairs, and wheelchair access has never been a problem there, because, guess what, I've seen the bouncers there, lock the wheelchair, and carry chair (with the user sitting in it) down to the bottom of the stairs.

md23040 wrote: »

Why don't you get your little camera out in other venues across Dublin with inadequate facilities, and force staff into a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation then destroy someone's business whilst forcing more people out of their jobs in a complete surreptitious and underhand manner.

You might want to direct that at the person who actually took the picture

md23040 wrote: »

You should have consulted the owners on the Monday and if they did not deal with the situation in a pragmatic manner, then you could have legitimate rights then to go down the internet witch hunt route.

Not being a wheelchair user, and having never experienced what this guy must have felt like at the time, it's virtually impossible for me to fully comprehend how pissed off he must have been. Consequently, It's difficult for me to comment (on the mans behalf) as regards his reasoning for posting the story on FB to begin with.

bigpink

Until we know what was exactly said the group could have been refused,place might be over 21s 23s people drunk,people rude etc

builditwell

Eod100 wrote: »

In that case there was a complete cop-out by venues. They had revenue in the celtic tiger years to do it then so why didn't they? A lack of enforcement on the government's part doesn't mean venues should get away scot-free.

It should be seen as an investment. Approximately 13% (others estimate it at almost 19%) of the population has some form of disability so think of all the revenue that's being missed out on. Ideally the gov would pay a contribution to any upgrades but I don't see it happening in the current climate.

Regardless of the current economic environment, most of the buildings in Dublin city alone would not be able to facilitate installation of lift shafts. Finding space for w/c facilities is not really an issue. Its the paying bums on seats for as little as possible that the government need to look at as in a minimum standard of premises before they open to the public and be accomodating to everyone.

JustAddWater

Statement from Madison

TLDR bouncer was fired

Madison Nightclub unreservedly apologise for the disgraceful treatment of Graham Bolger last night at the club. The person, who was with us from an outside agency for the last 4 weeks, has been dismissed with immediate effect and he will not be employed by the sub-contractor again. Our company policy is that the club is open to all. We have welcomed people of all abilities and will continue to do so. We are ashamed and embarrassed that this has happened. We have delayed posting here as we have been trying to contact Graham directly to apologise to him in advance of apologising publicly. We deeply regret what has happened and will ensure that it never happens again. We hope to speak to Graham directly as soon as possible

Andy-Pandy

If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.

Grayson

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

I've been refused from plenty of places whilst working as a care attendant. It happens because the places just don't have the facilities and are terrified of being sued. More often we've been let into the ground floor, but not allowed upstairs because there's no life and we're not allowed to carry people upstairs.

It's not like they ever said feck off. they've always been nice about it.

Artful_Badger

marcsignal wrote: »

Clearly you don't know him :rolleyes:

I dont know him, I'm just going by how he dealt with this situation. And he didnt deal with it in an all too inspirational manner.

Cienciano

marcsignal wrote: »

A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

Just as an example, The Kitchen Nightclub has stairs, and wheelchair access has never been a problem there, because, guess what, I've seen the bouncers there, lock the wheelchair, and carry chair (with the user sitting in it) down to the bottom of the stairs.

My mate in a wheelchair wouldn't go somewhere were you have to be carried up or down stairs by bouncers because he considers that humiliating.
Is having bouncers carry someone up or down stairs considered wheelchair accessible? I doubt it is.

Grayson

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.

Legally as far as I know, the establishment is responsible for what happens. Whether you want to be or not.
Besides, they have no idea if your nice or not. You could be nice smiley ba5tards.

Gyalist

marcsignal wrote: »

Clearly you don't know him :rolleyes:



A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

Just as an example, The Kitchen Nightclub has stairs, and wheelchair access has never been a problem there, because, guess what, I've seen the bouncers there, lock the wheelchair, and carry chair (with the user sitting in it) down to the bottom of the stairs.

If that's true, it may be in violation of their Public Liability insurance. Are the doormen trained to lift safely? What happens if the there is an emergency evacuation of the premises?

builditwell

Grayson wrote: »

Legally as far as I know, the establishment is responsible for what happens. Whether you want to be or not.
Besides, they have no idea if your nice or not. You could be nice smiley ba5tards.

As soon as youre admitted into a place ,the liability begins at the front door.

Gyalist

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.

That's all well and good until the injured party gets lawyered-up.

McBauer

marcsignal wrote: »

A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

If it was such an embarrassing incident then why did he go plastering it all over the internet? Why not deal with the situation privately with the company and/or a lawyer?

scudzilla

When i was Head Doorman of a large club back in Wales we used to have a few people coming in wheelchairs, we never refused anyone but did point out a few things.

Ya walked into reception then into the main club, there was a big flat area with a bar/toilets, then 6 steps down to dancefloor. Other side of dancefloor was 6 steps up to far side area, then in that area 2 sets of steps (about 30) to upstairs area.

All people in wheelchairs were told they were more than welcome, and we didn't even charge, so long as they stayed in the first area, as if there was a fire and they had managed to be lifted/carried to other area's they would be a hazard to themselves and others (imagine trying to carry a chair down stairs in a smoky building)

This went fine for a few years, then 1 guy started taking the piss, his friends continually carried him up to the top floor, (was just a balcony and bar), he was warned 3 times, then barred for 6 months

jd007

Your bouncers are still ***** though. Give yourselves an extra pat on yhe back for hiring them. Top notch employment.

****ing disgusting, vile people, i hope the guy in the wheelchair takes u to the cleaners, RATS

Pack of ****in rats. Shameful your treatment of a disabled individual simply wanting a night out.....Pricks

Well done being ****ing the worst *****... explain yourselves!!!.....

yous couldnt run a piss up in a brewery, yous knackers

Madison Nightclub=****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a few of the comments on their FB page. The utter vitriol people come out with after only hearing one side of the story with absolutely no proof is amazing.

Czarcasm

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.

Saying that now tbh might be all well and good, but the club has no way of knowing you won't sue, and if an accident were to happen where one of you slipped, tripped and ended up in a wheelchair yourselves, would you still think "nah, I won't look for compensation, t'was me own fault sure".

I respectfully suggest you think twice before you put door staff in that position again. They're not just there to say "not tonight mate", they're there to look out for the security and safety of the public, including your inspirational friend.

Grayson

builditwell wrote: »

As soon as youre admitted into a place ,the liability begins at the front door.

So the bouncer was probably in the right. And he got fired. That sucks. I haven't seen anyone involved say they're sorry he lost his livelihood.

My favourite quote from the Facebook crowd.

Find that ****ing **** of a bouncers house and blow his legs off, un-educated biggoted discriminatory bastards like him deserve nothing more than to face the inconvenience, harassment, and pain that the disabled community go through every day and if I seen something like that happen, I would personally make sure the perpetrators don't do it again, whether it means hurting them or suing the ass of them and donating all money to care, I can't stand people like that and I have my reasons for it....

liquoriceall

How was he going to get out at the end of the night? Would people expect the bouncers to carry him? I love how its all about his rights what about other peoples rights not to have a back injury lifting him

Alactric

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

T

Also, Of all the clubs in the City, did he choose to goto one in a basement and no wheelchair access, I mean its not like he couldn't have spent a half second on the interwebs and figured this wasn't the best choice for a night out.

I'm finding this very confusing as well. He's clearly gone on nights out plenty of times before, it's not unreasonable to expect some clubs just aren't equipped, which is no excuse and still crap but the practicality of the situation has to hit home at some point. We still don't know what bouncer said directly though, which could be the real deal breaker. The bouncer's comments could elevated the incident from an annoying inconvenience to outright discrimination

Scruffles

seanmacc wrote: »

If they carried him down the stairs there would be no problem if they invested in an evacuation chair. All wheelchair accessible buildings have to have them due to lifts not working in the case of fire. They are not expensive and require little training for staff to operate.

the evacmat is even easier to carry a person;a lot more stable, and less dangerous for them to use; this one is mine,well half of it,its to big to get a full shot of-
http://sadpanda.us/images/1460034-TL7JO9J.jpg
takes two people [one at each end] to use and woud suit a lot more disabilities unlike the chairs,evac chairs can be more dangerous for some people,especialy if they are very overweight,or have difficulty holding their upper body up,or have spastic muscles and may make sudden jerks [eg, CP] , or use a H/T/crelling harness.

Slunk

I wonder would the bouncer have a case for unfair dismissal. He was only doing his job. I certainly wouldn't be lifting anyone up and down stairs. Health and safety would be all over that.

rannerap

I've been to this place, the entrance in is a set of very steep stairs. Its in the basement, and its tiny! As people have said what was the bouncer meant to do carry him in and out? what if they fell? they are not covered to do such things. Really I would think he was refused in health and safety grounds, its all turned into a big witch hunt as these things normally do.

sfwcork

Its quite funny how this escalated so quickly

joetoad

The bouncer was probably new and didn't realize they could have letting someone in on a wheelchair even though there was stairs there. he probably wasn't even discriminating just thought it was a risk if he fell down the stairs been carried by drunk people. Or the guy in the wheelchair could have been scuttered. Who knows

marcsignal

McBauer wrote: »

If it was such an embarrassing incident then why did he go plastering it all over the internet? Why not deal with the situation privately with the company and/or a lawyer?

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I dont know him, I'm just going by how he dealt with this situation. And he didnt deal with it in an all too inspirational manner.

You can put yourself inside the mind of a wheelchair user, who has just been publicly humiliated ? I'm impressed, because I must say, I can't.

I can understand him being pissed off, but I couldn't for a minute comment on whether I think it was right, or wrong, or dignified, or undignified, or whatever, to deal with it the way he did. That's his decision to make. I've never even sat in a wheelchair, so, as I said before, It's extremely difficult for me to see it from his perspective, and then make a judgement on his actions.

Gyalist wrote: »

If that's true, it may be in violation of their Public Liability insurance. Are the doormen trained to lift safely? What happens if the there is an emergency evacuation of the premises?

I don’t know how it affects their insurance, but I’ve seen it happen. In fact, on the particular night I’m talking about, the bouncers wouldn’t allow the persons mates bring him down. They insisted the door staff deal with it. I assume they have a similar plan in the event of a fire or other emergency.

Slunk

sfwcork wrote: »

Its quite funny how this escalated so quickly

It's not so funny though that someone has lost there job because some idiot feels hard done by

Gyalist

Slunk wrote: »

I wonder would the bouncer have a case for unfair dismissal. He was only doing his job. I certainly wouldn't be lifting anyone up and down stairs. Health and safety would be all over that.

The bouncer was contract staff. He'll just not work at that venue again but if his employer has other contracts, he can be reassigned there.

scudzilla

Sarannewrap wrote: »

I've been to this place, the entrance in is a set of very steep stairs. Its in the basement, and its tiny! As people have said what was the bouncer meant to do carry him in and out? what if they fell? they are not covered to do such things. Really I would think he was refused in health and safety grounds, its all turned into a big witch hunt as these things normally do.

Sounds about right, well done on him being refused, if a big fire was in there and a wheelchair was a blocking the steep stairs then many would die, yet as there was no fire the club will be getting it in the neck

username123

marcsignal wrote: »

I can understand him being pissed off, but I couldn't for a minute comment on whether I think it was right, or wrong, or dignified, or undignified, or whatever, to deal with it the way he did. That's his decision to make.

I think its fair to say that a one sided internet witch hunt is never the proper way to deal with something.

Slunk

Says on Madison fb he has been dismissed and wont be reassigned by the contractor.

johnny_ultimate

While I absolutely sympathise with the situation the wheelchair user at the centre of this found himself subjected to, the 'witch hunt' element of this actually made me more angry. Simmer down people: it's an unfortunate incident, but some of the vile comments coming from 'outraged' individuals are so absurdly hyperbolic and worryingly aggressive it's rather embarrassing. Especially when the nightclub has already taken actions to rectify it.

The Internet equivalent of a pitchfork & flaming torch wielding mob. There's an interesting discussion to be had about the issues this incident raises, but **** me that's been lost in a spew of the most medieval of overreactions.

Alactric

username123 wrote: »

I think its fair to say that a one sided internet witch hunt is never the proper way to deal with something.

I agree, but it's hardly the mans fault that his honest complaint was turned into a bandwagon. You can say he should have forseen how volatile a public claim of discrimination can be, but he clearly felt legitimately hard done. I don't think either side is 100% right. The Bouncer could have been a real insensitive oaf about it for all we know. Likewise, Bolger should have probably looked into the matter privately and legally.

jluv

I also spend a lot of time with a wheelchair user. Yes I do call in advance only because I don't need hassle when I get there. Any venue I have contacted have been great. Now I believe ALL public venues should be in some way accessable. We have gone in side doors,back doors, through kitchens etc but while we have been acceptable to entry by any means i know it's not acceptable to all. I don't really care how we manage it however if someone said no then I would consider then not worthy to be in business.If you cannot accept everyone then your business is not acceptable..

fullgas

Slunk wrote: »

Says on Madison fb he has been dismissed and wont be reassigned by the contractor.

Crazy!

Was the bouncer expected to lift him up the stairs at the end of the night? What if there was a fire? Imagine the below scene but with a wheelchair blocking the stairs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOzfq9Egxeo

It is the nightclub's fault for not having the proper facilities, not the bouncers.

Grayson

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.

How is it shocking that we think a business that isn't designed to support special needs, refuses to support special needs.

Is it surprising that every taxi cab isn't wheelchair accessible and would you be surprised if a taxi driver refused someone they couldn't cater for?

Public services like Dublin bus have to because they're public services. But taxi's don't.

If he was refused from a club that has an accessible ground floor level because he was in a wheelchair, I'd be outraged. But the clue is in the description, I don't think anyone would describe that premises as wheelchair accessible.

srm23

it'll prob turn out Graham works for Madison

james142

Was just mentioned on FM104 there..

The presenter got the story from this thread :pac:

username123

Alactric wrote: »

I agree, but it's hardly the mans fault that his honest complaint was turned into a bandwagon.

What would be the purpose of posting it on the internet including a photo if not to attract attention though? The text with the image is worded provocatively.

The club were wrong, but creating a big internet stink causing someone to lose their job was worse.

Artful_Badger

marcsignal wrote: »

You can put yourself inside the mind of a wheelchair user, who has just been publicly humiliated ? I'm impressed, because I must say, I can't.

I can understand him being pissed off, but I couldn't for a minute comment on whether I think it was right, or wrong, or dignified, or undignified, or whatever, to deal with it the way he did. That's his decision to make. I've never even sat in a wheelchair, so, as I said before, It's extremely difficult for me to see it from his perspective, and then make a judgement on his actions

Because he's in a wheelchair means his humiliation or means of dealing with an issue is different than the rest of us ? Give over.

He was denied entry into a nightclub, plenty of people have for one thing or another. As others have said if he was that humiliated he'd have took the issue up with management in private instead of arguing with the bouncers for 45 minutes and then plastering it all over the internet.

The fact he did deal with it in this manner and cause the outcome he caused coupled with the fact this was the first time he was ever refused entry leads me to believe he's not really the poor humiliated victim people think he is and he didnt handle it in the best of ways.

Grayson

Alactric wrote: »

I agree, but it's hardly the mans fault that his honest complaint was turned into a bandwagon. You can say he should have forseen how volatile a public claim of discrimination can be, but he clearly felt legitimately hard done. I don't think either side is 100% right. The Bouncer could have been a real insensitive oaf about it for all we know. Likewise, Bolger should have probably looked into the matter privately and legally.

Did they try messaging them first? If so, I'd like to see if they got a response and if the response was reasonable. Ignoring a message is unacceptable and not stating clearly that they are sorry but... would be unacceptable.

dave1982

If I was him I'd be happy where he was in that pic anyway

Grayson

james142 wrote: »

Was just mentioned on FM104 there..

The presenter got the story from this thread :pac:

HEY FM104 MENTION ME!!

LizT

Alactric wrote: »

I agree, but it's hardly the mans fault that his honest complaint was turned into a bandwagon. You can say he should have forseen how volatile a public claim of discrimination can be, but he clearly felt legitimately hard done. I don't think either side is 100% right. The Bouncer could have been a real insensitive oaf about it for all we know. Likewise, Bolger should have probably looked into the matter privately and legally.

If he felt hard done by, he could have contacted the management. Instead he chose to publicize it on the internet and intentionally or not, started an online mob.