Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

md23040

McBauer wrote: »

Why should Graham be treated differently just because he's in a wheelchair?

For all the disparaging remarks made against the venue on Facebook and damage to its reputation, how would Bolger and Marcsignal like it if a mob mentality emerged here along the lines of them being

"fame hungry social media pre-madonna whores who purposely went out of their way to be offended and orchestrated an unnecessary pre-emptive one sided Facebook smear campaign without fully considering the consequences".

Then with posts getting more vitriolic.

Using the Madison logo with a wheelchair score through it shows how tech savvy and harmful an outcome these people intended to cause without giving the venue any proper means of right to reply at the outset.

How'd you feel if the pendulum swung the other way and the vitriol turned against you and your reputation in a mob frenzied one sided bloodbath?

Shame on you both and its pathetic the original post still has over 100 thanks even as the story has enfolded. People can un-thank a thank you know.

Btw - I have no connection to this premises but just feel justice has been badly served in this public FB witch hunt.

Kenny Logins

md23040 wrote: »

"fame hungry social media pre-madonna whores who purposely went out of their way to be offended and orchestrated an unnecessary pre-emptive one sided Facebook smear campaign without fully considering the consequences".

No chance. Have a look at Facebook, the majority of those people probably couldn't spell their own name if it wasn't right there above everything they attempt to type.

Can you convey this message in a photo?

3DataModem

mikemac1 wrote: »

Wearing trainers, not tonight pal

What do you mean? Those runners look brand new.

Kenny Logins

What happened in those 45 minutes?

DjTaz

Guys, i was speaking to Graham on the night , and i took that photo that is being passed around. He was stopped on the grounds that he was in a wheelchair. Not because of the way he was dressed , not because of any attitude problems. There is a false rumour going around that he was drunk , but i met him for the first time on Sat night and i was speaking to him for 10 minutes and i can assure you he was perfectly sober and is a very genuine and well spoken individual. He was told he couldnt get in because of the wheelchair. His girlfriend and friends (in the photo) were there to assist if he needed help down the stairs so that would not have been an issue , but they didnt even get that far.

Kenny Logins

DjTaz wrote: »

Guys, i was speaking to Graham on the night , and i took that photo that is being passed around. He was stopped on the grounds that he was in a wheelchair. Not because of the way he was dressed , not because of any attitude problems. There is a false rumour going around that he was drunk , but i met him for the first time on Sat night and i was speaking to him for 10 minutes and i can assure you he was perfectly sober and is a very genuine and well spoken individual. He was told he couldnt get in because of the wheelchair. His girlfriend and friends (in the photo) were there to assist if he needed help down the stairs so that would not have been an issue , but they didnt even get that far.

...and the 45 minutes?

Riesen_Meal

DjTaz wrote: »

Guys, i was speaking to Graham on the night , and i took that photo that is being passed around. He was stopped on the grounds that he was in a wheelchair. Not because of the way he was dressed , not because of any attitude problems. There is a false rumour going around that he was drunk , but i met him for the first time on Sat night and i was speaking to him for 10 minutes and i can assure you he was perfectly sober and is a very genuine and well spoken individual. He was told he couldnt get in because of the wheelchair. His girlfriend and friends (in the photo) were there to assist if he needed help down the stairs so that would not have been an issue , but they didnt even get that far.

What do you have to say about the second bouncers response posted on Facebook?

Not that Facebook is the be all and end all - Graham seems to think it is though...

Cienciano

Madison Nightclub are a bloody disgrace. For getting a bouncer sacked over this.
This is assuming the logical facts about this story. The bouncer refused him because theres a flight of stairs to go down, or refused him for another reason.
Would Graham Bolger have the same rant about any historical building he can't go into? There's thousands businesses in georgian buildings around the city, almost none with wheelchair access.

reganreggie

A similar thing happened a few years back with the wife and another couple one of who is in a wheelchair when we tried to go to coopers, the bouncers said we could not go in due to safety concerns. We were arguing for a bit with the bouncer when Ciara the girl in the wheelchair said hang a minute this place is a ****hole any way keep it. No facebook outrage just ****ty bouncers

SEPT 23 1989

If the worst was to happen and there was a fire in the place and a guy in a wheelchair died because they could not get him out fast enough there would be murder over it

thebigbiffo

Guy above reckons his friends (girls?) were there to help with the stairs...that's great, but if they tripped, fell and let Graham fall down 2 flights of stairs who is going to take responsibility? Would Graham sue the nightclub or or his friends?

This venue is DANGEROUS for a wheelchair user. It's not managements fault, it's just life. I'll never get to the top of Everest - some people just need to accept there are limits.

Cienciano

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

If the worst was to happen and there was a fire in the place and a guy in a wheelchair died because they could not get him out fast enough there would be murder over it

Or going by DjTaz's story, a couple of friends with a few drinks of them drop him down the stairs.
I don't know about you, but when I leave a club I'm usually not in a fit state to carry someone up a flight of stairs.

Fratton Fred

How old is Madison night club? If it is relatively new, it should have been built with disabled access.

Brendan Flowers

DjTaz wrote: »

Guys, i was speaking to Graham on the night , and i took that photo that is being passed around. He was stopped on the grounds that he was in a wheelchair. Not because of the way he was dressed , not because of any attitude problems. There is a false rumour going around that he was drunk , but i met him for the first time on Sat night and i was speaking to him for 10 minutes and i can assure you he was perfectly sober and is a very genuine and well spoken individual. He was told he couldnt get in because of the wheelchair. His girlfriend and friends (in the photo) were there to assist if he needed help down the stairs so that would not have been an issue , but they didnt even get that far.

Oh Jesus, I can just imagine Miss Red Dress in the photo trying to carrying him down (and up) a flight of stairs in those heels :rolleyes:

Just because some people were willing to carry him doesnt mean there wasnt an issue. There is serious health and safety risks.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Rabies

Steve O wrote: »

They're renting the building, the business would have nothing to do with the facilities.

Every LL or building owner should have facilities for wheelchair access in buildings used to serve the public.

It is utterly unacceptable to get refused from any business premise purely for being in a wheelchair.

Completely disagree with all of the above.

New buildings should have a wheel chair access , ramps and elevators as per the building code.

Old buildings were constructed before it became mandatory to provide special access. The premise owners should not be forced to change the structure or layout.

A wheel chair user in bar/club or any premises that uses a stairs as a means of access is a potential major problem in the event of a fire or evacuation.

If it was a only a few steps, they could have allowed him in, but warned him of the potential risks. At the end of the day, dress code, intox level and attitude will possbly have played a part in the decision.

I've ran clubs under street level, bars up sets of steps. All buildings were old. It would cost a fortune to build ramps and no space for elevators.

We have never denied access to someone in a chair. My bouncers have carried the person and chair up/down flights of stairs.

Who pays if they put their back out? Who pays if we refuse to carry them and their friends do it after having a few beers and an accident happens?

I have denied access to a person in a wheel chair based on standard of dress. The chair doesn't make a difference. The guy in the picture was wearing trainers, don't know what the dress code there is.
I have kicked out a person in a chair for getting too drunk, his friends started mouthing off about it only being because he is in a chair. That doesn't matter.
Had a person in a chair get aggressive before and wouldn't leave. He even had the balls to put the wheel break on so we couldn't push him out. Ended up picking the chair up and putting him out side.

Suppose where I'm going with this is, if the venue isn't suited to your capabilities or you're not suited to the venue for safety reasons, then a premise should be within its right to deny access. After all, a club/bar is a private establishment.

Fratton Fred

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What if Graham was applying for a job there?

Cienciano

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How old is Madison night club? If it is relatively new, it should have been built with disabled access.

The club might be new, but it's on Wicklow Street, so an old building.

md23040

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How old is Madison night club? If it is relatively new, it should have been built with disabled access.

It's an old building that's fairly small and no means of disabled access like many other Georgian buildings in Dublin.

Btw there's a funfair coming to Monkstown for Paddies w/e so why doesn't Bulger, Marcsignal, en-masse with a posse go out there (with cameras obviously) and get offended because he can't go on the swing boats.

Sure people can brain storm loads more ways to be offended if required.

Fratton Fred

Cienciano wrote: »

The club might be new, but it's on Wicklow Street, so an old building.

It doesn't matter, adequate allowance should have been made for disabled access. This applies to the refurbishment of premises as well as new construction.

This should have been covered in their planning application and licence. Firstly and foremost because they are an employer.

VinLieger

I vote we outlaw ladders as they arent wheelchair accessible either

triple-M

so if I walk up to coppers on a busy night get refused nobody bats an eyelid,but then if I lie under a luas and it cuts off my legs and I come back in a wheel chair the next day and I get refused again I can have the doormen fired and stir up a big rucus and run the place out of business?hmmm

thebigbiffo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It doesn't matter, adequate allowance should have been made for disabled access. This applies to the refurbishment of premises as well as new construction.

This should have been covered in their planning application and licence. Firstly and foremost because they are an employer.

No, it's cost prohibitive to make a building like the one Madison is in wheelchair friendly.

I am all for wheelchair friendly buildings, nightclubs, buses whatever - but expecting every single building to be retro fitted is b'ollox.

Jesus Graham, just go to another nightclub!! Whats the big feckin deal!!

Fratton Fred

VinLieger wrote: »

I vote we outlaw ladders as they arent wheelchair accessible either

Or maybe ban people in wheelchairs from going anywhere that isn't on the ground level?

Grayson

Kenny Logins wrote: »

What happened in those 45 minutes?

That is suspicious.

Duggy747

All this ruckus is a fine example of how easy it is to rile up a braying mob to spew it's venomous hatred towards a business and it's staff with as little facts known as possible on social media.

When the dust settles, nobody will remember this except the bouncer who was made a scapegoat.

Grayson

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It doesn't matter, adequate allowance should have been made for disabled access. This applies to the refurbishment of premises as well as new construction.

This should have been covered in their planning application and licence. Firstly and foremost because they are an employer.

there's be a lot of empty space if every place had to be wheelchair accessible. the south side especially has loads of little basement shops. I have a mate who has rented the top floor of an old building for a specialist shop. He's using the savings he scraped together. There's only a narrow stairs that two people couldn't pass on. There's no lift and nowhere one could be built even if he could afford it.
Should that space remain empty?

In the case of the nightclub, if i remember correctly, it might be new, but there have been clubs there in the past. It's directly under the building (it's a basement). The only way to get build lift down would be to go into the business that's above. So that business would have to provide access after hours.

Businesses should provide access, when possible. If they're just not bothered, that's sh1tty, but that's not the same as not being able to.

Matt_Trakker

I don't get why he wanted to go to an underground pub that only had access by stairs.

Grayson

Duggy747 wrote: »

All this ruckus is a fine example of how easy it is to rile up a braying mob to spew it's venomous hatred towards a business and it's staff with as little facts known as possible on social media.

When the dust settles, nobody will remember this except the bouncer who was made a scapegoat.

Considering all the people involved work in the music and entertainment industry, you'd think they'd know where's accessable and where's not. In fact, you'd think they'd know the all the sound engineers and dj's around dublin. They probably have plenty of friends in the nightclub business.

hell, the people who posted up the nightclub sign with the wheelchair access logo are dj's and sound engineers.

suicide_circus

Does anyone know the legal position here? Are businesses with premises in old buildings legally required to retro fit the building for wheelchair access in order to be allowed operate?

Fratton Fred

Grayson wrote: »

there's be a lot of empty space if every place had to be wheelchair accessible. the south side especially has loads of little basement shops. I have a mate who has rented the top floor of an old building for a specialist shop. He's using the savings he scraped together. There's only a narrow stairs that two people couldn't pass on. There's no lift and nowhere one could be built even if he could afford it.
Should that space remain empty?

In the case of the nightclub, if i remember correctly, it might be new, but there have been clubs there in the past. It's directly under the building (it's a basement). The only way to get build lift down would be to go into the business that's above. So that business would have to provide access after hours.

Businesses should provide access, when possible. If they're just not bothered, that's sh1tty, but that's not the same as not being able to.

It has to be proportional. If they spent €5m fitting out a club then they in the wrong. If the spent €200k and disabled access would have cost that again then it is cost prohibitive.

They should make that very clear though and it shouldn't be up to a bouncer to decide who does and who doesn't get in.

Ush1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They should make that very clear though and it shouldn't be up to a bouncer to decide who does and who doesn't get in.

Wheelchair or not, that is always the case.

rubiesarered

I've a friend in a wheelchair and he often comes out with a big group of us. Over the years, he's been refused entry to quite a few clubs where the club is in a basement. It doesn't matter if there is a lift to get you in because, if there was a fire, they couldn't let you use it to get out. It's not discriminatory at all - its just a fact that the insurance company won't allow it. We just learnt which clubs to go to and which not to go to.

Fratton Fred

Ush1 wrote: »

Wheelchair or not, that is always the case.

Yes and no. That is part of the bouncers job, bit this is refusal based on disability only, which is a unique matter.

Should they let people in on crutches, or with only one leg? They might have trouble getting up the stairs, what about a blind person?

The club should have a clear policy.

Kloecor

I'm in Waterford and a friend of mine is in a wheelchair. The lift wasn't working so the bouncers lifted him up the stairs. And when he was leaving they lifted him back down again.

This is just so wrong!! It's like he's being punished for no reason. Those bouncers should be completely embarrassed by themselves at the moment!

Fratton Fred

pawsandheels wrote: »

I've a friend in a wheelchair and he often comes out with a big group of us. Over the years, he's been refused entry to quite a few clubs where the club is in a basement. It doesn't matter if there is a lift to get you in because, if there was a fire, they couldn't let you use it to get out. It's not discriminatory at all - its just a fact that the insurance company won't allow it. We just learnt which clubs to go to and which not to go to.

I work on the fifth floor of a building and we have two people in wheelchairs in the building.

The Road Runner

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I work on the fifth floor of a building and we have two people in wheelchairs in the building.

How do they get up the stairs?

Rasheed

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

I don't get why he wanted to go to an underground pub that only had access by stairs.

Yeah I can't understand this either. Why put yourself in the embarrassing position of being carried down stairs, run the risk of falling and injuring yourself and your friends, and do the same when leaving?

It's not a practical place for a wheelchair user to be, sad but true. Why he didn't go to a club he knew would suit him, I don't know.

fullstop

He shared the post again himself on fb this morning :rolleyes: What was the point in that? He got his apology and the member of staff sacked.

Hilly Bill

sounds like someone is after some easy money.

Fratton Fred

The Road Runner wrote: »

How do they get up the stairs?

By lift. The same lifts that het turned off if there is a fire.

krudler

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It doesn't matter, adequate allowance should have been made for disabled access. This applies to the refurbishment of premises as well as new construction.

This should have been covered in their planning application and licence. Firstly and foremost because they are an employer.

That's a pretty big cost to undertake for a miniscule percentage of customers.

Rabies

Hilly Bill wrote: »

sounds like someone is after some easy money.

Out for drinks.
Get denied access.
Pose for picture outside venue
Go to FB and rant instead of going back the next day to complain.

Sounds like a lovely chap.

Brendan Flowers

fullstop wrote: »

He shared the post again himself on fb this morning :rolleyes: What was the point in that? He got his apology and the member of staff sacked.

He's really coming across as a petty, spiteful little man. Rather than feel guilty for getting a man fired he seems determined to use this whole incident to get his 15 mins of fame and a bit of compo.

The Road Runner

fullstop wrote: »

He shared the post again himself on fb this morning :rolleyes: What was the point in that? He got his apology and the member of staff sacked.

I suspect he didn't preempt the nightclub apologizing so soon and the bouncer getting the sack. Hasn't got the millage out of his campaign he wanted so he's stocking the fire some more. Says a lot about the guy him doing that today

Cienciano

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It doesn't matter, adequate allowance should have been made for disabled access. This applies to the refurbishment of premises as well as new construction.

This should have been covered in their planning application and licence. Firstly and foremost because they are an employer.

That's just not realistic. Every georgian building on merrion square has to get rid of it's granite steps and have a wheelchair ramp? The interior of all these buildings has to be altered to put in a lift?

Kloecor wrote: »

I'm in Waterford and a friend of mine is in a wheelchair. The lift wasn't working so the bouncers lifted him up the stairs. And when he was leaving they lifted him back down again.

This is just so wrong!! It's like he's being punished for no reason. Those bouncers should be completely embarrassed by themselves at the moment!

I thought you meant being lifted was so wrong! Some people in wheelchairs see being carried as being humiliating.

fullstop

The Road Runner wrote: »

I suspect he didn't preempt the nightclub apologizing so soon and the bouncer getting the sack. Hasn't got the millage out of his campaign he wanted so he's stocking the fire some more. Says a lot about the guy him doing that today

You can be damn sure he knew about the apology. One of the comments on his latest sharing "It's gone international now, stuff them hard"

Duggy747

fullstop wrote: »

He shared the post again himself on fb this morning :rolleyes: What was the point in that? He got his apology and the member of staff sacked.

It's beyond an apology, he wants the company to ripped apart by the mob and he wants this little moment to carry on as long as possible.

He should grow the fùck up and deal with it in a better manner. Instead, he's coming off as spiteful and this repost is reflecting that, he wants it to be viral.

If I had an unhappy customer I'd encourage them to come to me with their complaint and let me deal with them directly, not kick up a stink on Facebook first and have thousands angrily against you with nobody stepping back to consider the other side of the story.

Ush1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes and no. That is part of the bouncers job, bit this is refusal based on disability only, which is a unique matter.

Where was that confirmed exactly that he was only refused on disability? Bouncers aren't even obliged to give a reason anyway as far as I know.

monkeypants

Kloecor wrote: »

It's like he's being punished for no reason.

Punished? Not gaining access to a nightclub is punishment now?