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Draft from down lighters in new extension

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  • 10-03-2013 10:42pm
    #1
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭


    We had an extension built last year and of late there's a bad draft which I recently found is coming from the downlights. Have tried contact the builder with no luck.. Is there anything that can be done? I inspected the fittings and they seem to be cheap fittings. i.e. non fire rated "cans" there also seems to be quite a void of insulation around the light fitting in the ceiling. Could I try fill the void with expanding foam then make a cut out for a can type light fitting would this be advisable? Don't want a fire hazard either.


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    #2
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    Buy bathroom down lighters. They have a rubber seal on them it's supposed to stop water ingress but I would imagine it would stop the draft getting in. As for the fire rating i think you can get fire rated ones but they'd be pricey. Fire rated down lighters have a back on them that covers the bulb and reflects heat downwards. Hope sat helped ya.


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    #3
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Cogsy88 wrote: »
    Buy bathroom down lighters. They have a rubber seal on them it's supposed to stop water ingress but I would imagine it would stop the draft getting in. As for the fire rating i think you can get fire rated ones but they'd be pricey. Fire rated down lighters have a back on them that covers the bulb and reflects heat downwards. Hope sat helped ya.


    They will be fcuk all use if the OPs kitchen extension ceiling is a sloped ceiling/lean to roof.

    Therefor they would need to be adjustable so that the light beam would face downwards and not off to 1 side.


    The OP also needs to find out what size/diameter hole was cut out of the ceiling for the existing downlights,before doing anything else.


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    #4
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭karlito0001


    It's a pitched roof.. And the ceiling goes up with the pitch btw.. So the space between the plaster and the felt/roof tiles is about 100mm


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    #5
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    karlito0001 wrote: »
    It's a pitched roof.. And the ceiling goes up with the pitch btw.. So the space between the plaster and the felt/roof tiles is about 100mm

    Forget bathroom fittings then...as you need directional light fitttings

    Aroura sell a fire/accoustc/insulating downlight kit,that is fully adjustable.

    Its around 18-20 euro for a fiting though.


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    #6
    Cogsy88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 460 ✭✭Cogsy88


    There's no need to have a go at me was only trying to help. He never said wat type of roof it was. If its not flat he can jus use eyeball down lighters with surrounds they should also stop a draft.


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    #7
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Cogsy88 wrote: »
    There's no need to have a go at me was only trying to help. He never said wat type of roof it was. If its not flat he can jus use eyeball down lighters with surrounds they should also stop a draft.


    Eh no one is having a go at you.......so relax there.

    You could have asked the OP what type of roof/ceiling it was/is 1st though.;)


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    #8
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭karlito0001


    The void is actually 140mm and I've sourced some lights 80 mm in depth (that's the can) so I'm left with 60 mm and was gonna maybe get a disc if insulation say 20 mm and bond it in? Would this be ok?


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    #9
    Robbie.G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭Robbie.G


    karlito0001 wrote: »
    The void is actually 140mm and I've sourced some lights 80 mm in depth (that's the can) so I'm left with 60 mm and was gonna maybe get a disc if insulation say 20 mm and bond it in? Would this be ok?
    Don't put insulation around or directly over your down lighters as that is a major fire hazard you can get fire hoods for the down lighters that will solve most of the draught and it is the safest option


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    #10
    avon barksdale
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭avon barksdale


    Robbie.G wrote: »
    Don't put insulation around or directly over your down lighters as that is a major fire hazard you can get fire hoods for the down lighters that will solve most of the draught and it is the safest option

    You can cover fire rated down lighters with insulation!


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    #11
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭karlito0001


    Unfortunately I can't go for the hood option as its not accessible..


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    #12
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Robbie.G wrote: »
    Don't put insulation around or directly over your down lighters as that is a major fire hazard you can get fire hoods for the down lighters that will solve most of the draught and it is the safest option


    Exactly as I did and posted pics about too.;):)

    100mm Rockwool slab around them,and then 170mm Knauf Carbon Zero over them.


    PS-This wont work though if the ceiling and lights are allready done and slabbed out.


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    #13
    Robbie.G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭Robbie.G


    paddy147 wrote: »


    Exactly as I did and posted pics about too.;):)

    100mm Rockwool slab around them,and then 170mm Knauf Carbon Zero over them.


    PS-This wont work though if the ceiling and lights are allready done and slabbed out.
    The fire hoods are designed to be fitted through the cut out can't remember the make but I fitted 90 of them


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    #14
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Robbie.G wrote: »
    The fire hoods are designed to be fitted through the cut out can't remember the make but I fitted 90 of them


    Aroura perhaps?.......they are canvas fire retardant hoods that fold down for instalation and then pop out once installed into the void.


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    #15
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Theres also a cone shaped fire hood that you "cut to size" to fit into the downlight hole.

    It used 2 metal brackets that you bend to shape.

    You fit the cone shaped hood in 1st,and then slot in the 2 metal brackets to keep it up and away from the downlight bulb..


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    #16
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Video of said hood.




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    #17
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTUMESCENT-FABRIC-VENTILATED-FIRE-HOOD-DOWNLIGHT-COVER-150-X-150-NEW-/281076118771?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Lighting_Parts&hash=item41717134f3#ht_336wt_1313


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    #18
    cheif kaiser
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭cheif kaiser


    From my own experience when searching for fire hoods I found they were more expensive than buying firerated downlights themselves. I think I payed around €70 for 10 Robus, adjustable, firerated downlights on ebay and was pretty please with the quality. Electrician also told me that the hoods are tricky little suckers to install correctly!


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    #19
    L1979
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭L1979


    Sorry i don't mean to start an argument, but Fire rated downlights are designed to restore the fire rating of the ceiling after cutting a hole in it. I have never read anything from manufacturers about covering them with insulation. Am i missing something?


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    #20
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭karlito0001


    L1979 wrote: »
    Sorry i don't mean to start an argument, but Fire rated downlights are designed to restore the fire rating of the ceiling after cutting a hole in it. I have never read anything from manufacturers about covering them with insulation. Am i missing something?

    I don't think so but what I'm looking to find out is, with the heat created by the light fitting is it ok to deal the top to prevent the draft that's comin through the fitting? And what's the permissible clearance between the "can" and insulation


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    #21
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭karlito0001


    *seal


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    #22
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    karlito0001 wrote: »
    I don't think so but what I'm looking to find out is, with the heat created by the light fitting is it ok to deal the top to prevent the draft that's comin through the fitting? And what's the permissible clearance between the "can" and insulation


    Change over to LED downlights.Big drop in the heat and also the electricity usage too.:)


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    #23
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭karlito0001


    What's the light off the LEDs like? I've heard it can be quite white if you know what I mean.. Unlike the warm glow produced by the halogen equivalent


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    #24
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    karlito0001 wrote: »
    What's the light off the LEDs like? I've heard it can be quite white if you know what I mean.. Unlike the warm glow produced by the halogen equivalent


    Myself and my family found them very nice indeed....a nice warm/homely white colour.:)

    Have them installed throughout the house...(the picture doesnt do them justice)


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    #25
    karlito0001
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭karlito0001


    How much did you pay for those LEDs ? Did you get them online?


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    #26
    L1979
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭L1979


    karlito0001 wrote: »
    I don't think so but what I'm looking to find out is, with the heat created by the light fitting is it ok to deal the top to prevent the draft that's comin through the fitting? And what's the permissible clearance between the "can" and insulation

    Have a read of http://www.led.ie/led/led/asp/section.asp?s=40

    Fire Rated fittings are indeed to restore the fire rating of the ceiling and have nothing to do with insulation. Robus do however claim that their fitting are Air leakage tested to BS5250, so that in itself should resolve your problem with drafts.

    As Paddy suggested swap to Led's as they are alot cooler then their halogen cousins.


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    #27
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    karlito0001 wrote: »
    How much did you pay for those LEDs ? Did you get them online?


    8 euro 50 cents plus vat.

    Eurosales in Glasnevin


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    #28
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    There's a lot to be said for surface-mounted spots!
    I sincerely hope recessed lighting goes out of fashion soon. It's more hassle than it's worth.

    You can get some really nice looking track / wire systems that are a million times less trouble to install, don't screw up your insulation and are't fire hazards.


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    #29
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Solair wrote: »
    There's a lot to be said for surface-mounted spots!
    I sincerely hope recessed lighting goes out of fashion soon. It's more hassle than it's worth.

    You can get some really nice looking track / wire systems that are a million times less trouble to install, don't screw up your insulation and are't fire hazards.


    Any links.

    I know Ikea do some nice track systems,but dont know how good or bad they may be?


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