Left Ireland for Australia, left keys in door

KegglesMcS

After talking to the banks a number of times in Ireland who failed to let me sell my houses I had no choice but to pack the bags and go. The company I worked for had a great offer for me in Oz and I felt I was depriving my kids of a better life by not accepting.

I have 2 properties in Ireland and I haven't paid either mortgage in 13 months. I offered to take on the negative equity as a personal loan but they refused.

My question is when living in Australia, can the banks/law force me to come home at any point?

My only concern is if I were home for christmas for example could I be arrested or am I being stupid?

Chris_5339762

This won't end well.

I'll say it nicely, because others won't. Try to pay your debts, don't run away from them. Sort out a payment plan with your bank that allows you to continue to pay your mortgage. Do not do a strategic default or anything like that.

Thank you and I'll go make the popcorn.

fasttalkerchat

Why not let the houses to someone on a low income living in a smaller house for a nominal fee. That way the houses can be put to good use and the banks cant touch them.
The way it stands they will sell your houses at auction for 50k and take you to court for the rest.

KegglesMcS

So they can take me to court even though I am living in Australia?

Lantus

After 13 months of no payment the banks should b screaming to accept some sort of deal whether it be interest only or int+some capital. Talk to the mortgage arrears section and put everything in writing.

Fundementally life is short and I say put you and your family first. Keep writing and engaging with the banks.

As others have said get the properties rented and use the money to furnish the mortgages. As your away get an agent or friends /family to do all of this.

Dont stick your head in the sand but dont let a very small pile of bricks, timber and plasterboard dictate the future of you and your family. The banks are corrupt and fundementally flawed. The entire premise of our civilisation is built on debt (the source of all money creation in the last 90+ years) My gut feeling is that the whole thing is circling the plug hole on a global level.

GetWithIt

1. Do not leave the keys in the door. That's just being silly. Mail them.

2. You're a grown adult. The repercussions of your actions are yours alone to bear. Research your options, accept the consequences and do what you need to do.

KegglesMcS

GetWithIt wrote: »

1. Do not leave the keys in the door. That's just being silly. Mail them.

2. You're a grown adult. The repercussions of your actions are yours alone to bear. Research your options, accept the consequences and do what you need to do.

Have I not done that?

Kristopherus

KegglesMcS wrote: »

Have I not done that?

To put it simply, you cannot run for ever. If the banks repossess, they can flog off the houses at sfa money and register the remaining mortgage as a debt against you. Nobody can tell the future, but it could be well on the case that Australia could well have pretty comprehensive tax treaty with the auld sod in the not too distant future. That being a possibility, you need to have your i's dotted and your t's crossed to cover yourself from future court action. Have you established that the bank cannot come after you in the Aussie courts?

KegglesMcS

No I havent. I guess thats my question right now.

catallus

KegglesMcS, if you think you're doing the right thing then don't let anyone talk you out of it.

The banks were fully aware of the risk of you defaulting; that's why they charge you (and the rest of us) interest!

Let them have their keys. Maybe talk to a friendly solicitor about going legally bankrupt.

If the idle rich can do it, so can you.

Enjoy Australia.

D3PO

catallus wrote: »

The banks were fully aware of the risk of you defaulting; that's why they charge you (and the rest of us) interest!

.

Eh they charge interest to make a profit not due to a default risk :rolleyes:

Nobody on here will change the OP's mind but the debt wont dissapear, its not a case of out of sight out of mind.

fasttalkerchat

D3PO wrote: »

Eh they charge interest to make a profit not due to a default risk :rolleyes:

Nobody on here will change the OP's mind but the debt wont dissapear, its not a case of out of sight out of mind.

They risk has a link to the interest charged. Profit comes into it too.

Ipso

If you had a job why didn't you pay any mortgage?

KegglesMcS

I had a job. I payed the mortgage until I left Ireland. Never missed a payment on either house for over 12 years.

fasttalkerchat

KegglesMcS wrote: »

I had a job. I payed the mortgage until I left Ireland. Never missed a payment on either house for over 12 years.

So you wanted to sell the houses and pay back the deficit as a personal loan but they refused. So you stopped paying the mortgage and they're still refusing anything?
Could you remortgage the houses with another bank then sell them off?

Peregrinus

Kristopherus wrote: »

To put it simply, you cannot run for ever. If the banks repossess, they can flog off the houses at sfa money and register the remaining mortgage as a debt against you. Nobody can tell the future, but it could be well on the case that Australia could well have pretty comprehensive tax treaty with the auld sod in the not too distant future. That being a possibility, you need to have your i's dotted and your t's crossed to cover yourself from future court action. Have you established that the bank cannot come after you in the Aussie courts?

This has nothing to do with tax or tax treaties. There's already an Ireland/Australia double taxation agreement in place, but it's not relevant to KegglesMcS's situation.

The position is this:

1. The banks can enforce their securities against the two properties, and take court action to have them sold.

2. Assuming the net sale proceeds do not clear the debt, Keggles still owes the bank the shortfall, plus accumulated interest, costs, etc. Interest continues to run.

3. Keggles's obligations do not evaporate when he gets on a plane. The bank can sue Keggles (in the Irish courts) while he's abroad. Whether they will or not is another matter, but they can.

4. If they sue, they'll almost certainly get judgment in their favour.

5. The bank can seek to enforce their Irish judgment against Keggles in the Australian courts (if they can trace Keggle - but banks have good international information networks). That's cumbersome and complex, but possible. Again, whether they will or not is another matter, but they can certainly try.

6. Alternatively, the banks can sue Keggles in the Australian courts. That's probably more straightforward. I have to say that it's not something banks normally do, except for very large amounts. But it can certainly be done.

7. Should Keggles come back to Ireland, either on a visit or permanently, they can seek to enforce their judgment against him in Ireland. Available enforcement mechanisms do not include arrest, however. What Keggles is contemplating doing is not a crime.

8. If Keggles remains in Australia, and assuming the Irish bank does not pursue him through the Australian courts, this could still cause him problems if he applies for credit in Australia. At a minimum, he'll probably have to lie (about not having defaulted on previous obligations) to obtain any signficant amount of credit, and lying to obtain credit is fraud, and that would be a crime - committed in his new country of residence, not his old. And there's a material chance of detection. So, best to avoid this.

catallus

^^^^^^^

Right!

So Kegles should get bankrupt ASAP......

StillWaters

catallus wrote: »

^^^^^^^

Right!

So Kegles should get bankrupt ASAP......

Certainly they should explore this, or a Personal Insolvency Arrangement. Leaving the arrangement as is is messy and leaves Kegles looking over their shoulder for years.

cookie1977

Have you looked at all the options under the MARP process?

It's really essential to have exploited all options before going with the one you're suggesting. You also might meet the criteria for personal insolvency. Have a look at the links below:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/personal_insolvency/personal_insolvency_options.html

www.keepingyourhome.ie

stoneill

KegglesMcS wrote: »

I had a job. I payed the mortgage until I left Ireland. Never missed a payment on either house for over 12 years.

I don't understand, you just left?

Peregrinus

As I read it, he left 13 months ago and stopped making mortgage payments at that point.

JustAThought

Peregrinus wrote: »

As I read it, he left 13 months ago and stopped making mortgage payments at that point.

13 years is half the mortgage life. Australian visa authorities are tough & if their rules change they can choose to deport you - and your family.

Can you not re-engage with the banks here & get in tenants - even if you have to use an estate agent - and get some income from them to keep the mortgage cash flow going.

A lifetime is a long time to be running & watching over your shoulder. And you have 13 years of good credit behind you .shame to ruin the future when most of your past is so good.

D3PO

beginning to think the OP is trolling. Paid their mortgage in full for 12 years ?

If they paid interest and capital on a house since 2001, this doesnt add up at all

JustLen

D3PO wrote: »

If they paid interest and capital on a house since 2001, this doesnt add up at all

What doesn't add up?

murphaph

catallus wrote: »

KegglesMcS, if you think you're doing the right thing then don't let anyone talk you out of it.

The banks were fully aware of the risk of you defaulting; that's why they charge you (and the rest of us) interest!

Let them have their keys. Maybe talk to a friendly solicitor about going legally bankrupt.

If the idle rich can do it, so can you.

Enjoy Australia.

Extremely reckless advice. OP if you want to know if the banks can chase you in Australia then consult a specialist lawyer in Australia.

I think you've handled this badly and could end up regretting your actions later.

murphaph

JustLen wrote: »

What doesn't add up?

Actually it doesn't add up. A house purchased in 2001 is highly unlikely to be in negative equity in the first place.

Denis k

Best of luck in aus.unfortunately your debt will continue to grow.i believe the banks can sell on the debt,you will have to deal with it at some stage

looksee

If the house(s) has been standing empty with the key in the door for 13 years it is most likely either occupied or trashed by now.

RUSTEDCORE

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

They risk has a link to the interest charged. Profit comes into it too.

other way around

DamoKen

murphaph wrote: »

Actually it doesn't add up. A house purchased in 2001 is highly unlikely to be in negative equity in the first place.

I bought my house summer 2001.It's been in negative equity for at least the last two years. Talked with a mate who's a estate agent last summer. House near to mine that was the same spec but newer with a larger garden sold for 80,000 less than I bought mine. My estate and those surrounding it were all built within a year of each other. There are I would say over 1000 homes in all.

So it is quite possible that the OP is in negative equity.

earlyevening

DamoKen wrote: »

I bought my house summer 2001.It's been in negative equity for at least the last two years. Talked with a mate who's a estate agent last summer. House near to mine that was the same spec but newer with a larger garden sold for 80,000 less than I bought mine. My estate and those surrounding it were all built within a year of each other. There are I would say over 1000 homes in all.

So it is quite possible that the OP is in negative equity.

No way.

If he' has been repaying capital for 14 years, there's no way you could be in neg equity - unless he remortgaged.