Left Ireland for Australia, left keys in door

gaius c

The Spider wrote: »

Repossessions as a last resort

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0313/376503-new-measures-on-arrears-to-include-write-downs/

"Significantly, as part of the new targets for banks, regulators are openly asking lenders to include debt forgiveness if it is appropriate.
In the Central Bank's definition of a sustainable solution, it includes repayment of "a revised principal sum" - in other words some of the debt being written down if the bank offers a deal to a customer."


Going to be a lot of it under the table and it'll be drip fed out to the public until it's pallatable.

God loves a trier but since you're so needy for attention...

The only debt forgiveness we'll see is people having their houses taken off them, sold and being forgiven a portion of the outstanding mortgage.

It makes no financial sense for a bank to give defaulters a free property when they could sell it to somebody else who might actually pay their mortgage and pursue the defaulter to recover as much of the outstanding balance as they can.

The Spider

D3PO wrote: »

no they are talking about split mortgages et all. They are nto referring to jonny getting a reduction from 200k to 100k on his mortgage so that it becomes sustainable.

Your so desperate for writedowns that you cant even see past the newspaper spin.

Ha, I don't need a writedown, I have a pretty small mortgage thanks to the crash, I'm just telling you what's going to happen.

Banks'll write down the loans see what Iceland did.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/iceland-s-debt-write-downs-cleared-a-path-to-recovery-1.1364994?page=2

Anynama141

The Spider wrote: »

Ha, I don't need a writedown, I have a pretty small mortgage thanks to the crash, I'm just telling you what's going to happen.

Banks'll write down the loans see what Iceland did.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/iceland-s-debt-write-downs-cleared-a-path-to-recovery-1.1364994?page=2

Iceland has its own currency and can do what it likes with it.

We don't and we can't.

The Spider

gaius c wrote: »

God loves a trier but since you're so needy for attention...

The only debt forgiveness we'll see is people having their houses taken off them, sold and being forgiven a portion of the outstanding mortgage.

It makes no financial sense for a bank to give defaulters a free property when they could sell it to somebody else who might actually pay their mortgage and pursue the defaulter to recover as much of the outstanding balance as they can.

It's not a free property they still have to pay back a loan, it's just been recalculated to a lower amount.

(Thanks for the attention)

The Spider

Oh one more

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/03/11/repossessions-and-gagging-orders/



“The secret document obliges mortgage holders ‘not to disclose to any third party the fact that negotiations are taking place’ on restructuring the mortgage.”

Now another word for restructuring is writedown, deluded if you think differently.

D3PO

The Spider wrote: »

It's not a free property they still have to pay back a loan, it's just been recalculated to a lower amount.

(Thanks for the attention)

Think you on the wrong board my friend. After Hours much more suited to you Id say :rolleyes:

D3PO

The Spider wrote: »

Oh one more

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/03/11/repossessions-and-gagging-orders/



“The secret document obliges mortgage holders ‘not to disclose to any third party the fact that negotiations are taking place’ on restructuring the mortgage.”

Now another word for restructuring is writedown, deluded if you think differently.

no write off is another word for writedown.

reorganizing is another word for restructuring.

Keep casting off though you will get somebody to bite eventually

The Spider

D3PO wrote: »

no write off is another word for writedown.

reorganizing is another word for restructuring.

Keep casting off though you will get somebody to bite eventually

Sigh!, anyway the official description:

Loan Restructuring Overview

• Loan restructuring can include consolidation, re-amortization or even write down of a debt. Restructuring often occurs if there is a change in the market or the borrower's needs, and the lender agrees to change a contract accordingly.
  
  

Now I think anyone who has any sense knows that people who have no cash are pretty much left looking at one option out of the above.

I don't know what's so hard about this, it's common sense, there's nowhere else to go, you can't get blood out of a stone and all that, yes you can repossess, banks won't though unless they absolutely have to as a last resort, they've been warned by the government, and our country culturally will rail against repos.

Releasing a glut of em'll do damage to house prices and we know no one wants that, so all you're left with is the write down.

Now, cue the insults and calls of "unfair I rented in a 1 bedroom basement flat with 100 albanians to avoid the boom, I want anyone who bought publically burned, and anyone who even says my basement time was in vain!"

cookie1977

Anynama141 wrote: »

There are about 30,000 properties for sale in Ireland. If only 10% of 'PPRs' in arrears turn out to be BTLs, then that's a 33% increase in supply.

Increase the supply of anything by 33% and it is quite significant.

Ah now here stop it. It depends too on what and where these properties are in ireland. There's enough speculation going on without trying to use stats to try to prove speculation.

jmayo

Why does this seem apt ?

Anynama141

cookie1977 wrote: »

Ah now here stop it. It depends too on what and where these properties are in ireland. There's enough speculation going on without trying to use stats to try to prove speculation.

I used stats to prove 'speculation' during the 2000s and decided that we were in a property bubble.

Common sense and some numbers will take you a long way.

cookie1977

Anynama141 wrote: »

I used stats to prove 'speculation' during the 2000s and decided that we were in a property bubble.

Common sense and some numbers will take you a long way.

I'll take your word on it so.

lima

The Spider wrote: »

Sigh!, anyway the official description:

Loan Restructuring Overview

• Loan restructuring can include consolidation, re-amortization or even write down of a debt. Restructuring often occurs if there is a change in the market or the borrower's needs, and the lender agrees to change a contract accordingly.
  
  

Now I think anyone who has any sense knows that people who have no cash are pretty much left looking at one option out of the above.

I don't know what's so hard about this, it's common sense, there's nowhere else to go, you can't get blood out of a stone and all that, yes you can repossess, banks won't though unless they absolutely have to as a last resort, they've been warned by the government, and our country culturally will rail against repos.

Releasing a glut of em'll do damage to house prices and we know no one wants that, so all you're left with is the write down.

Now, cue the insults and calls of "unfair I rented in a 1 bedroom basement flat with 100 albanians to avoid the boom, I want anyone who bought publically burned, and anyone who even says my basement time was in vain!"

repossessions will happen, property is falling still and will fall further and further, Ireland will remain stagnant for a generation.

StillWaters

lima wrote: »

Ireland will remain stagnant for a generation.

thankfully you are utterly wrong.

Anynama141

StillWaters wrote: »

thankfully you are utterly wrong.

You've been speaking to the future?

I hope the place won't be stagnant for a generation, but I'm reasonably confident property is going nowhere but down for the next decade as this shambles works its way through the system. I'll be happy investing again if I see further falls in the 20-30% range from here.

The Corinthian

Anynama141 wrote: »

I used stats to prove 'speculation' during the 2000s and decided that we were in a property bubble.

Common sense and some numbers will take you a long way.

I did much the same, in 2004. Many people did.

jmayo

All one had to do was look at the value of property in the area you grew up in.
Suddenly your neighbours house was worth 2 or 3 times what it had been a few years before.
Suddenly you could not afford to live in your local area because you now needed a job paying 10 times more than that of people who had bought in the area 5 years before.

I grew up in the country and suddenly 3/4 bed standard houses in the local town were worth the sames as similar houses in Galway city had been a few years before.
Suddenly a half acre site in the ar**hole of nowhere was running at 20 times the price of agricultural land.

Guys were suddenly selling ruins of old houses that had been used as barns for years at prices that one would have paid for an actual house in the area a few years before.

And it became even more apparent that it was a house of cards when you stood back and checked out where all the new employment in the local area was coming from.

Jimmy was plastering and had a few lads working for him.
Johnny was a sparks and likewise had lads working for him.
Mary was working in a new furniture shop.
Larry was driving one of the many new readymix trucks that the local quarry man had invested in.
Katie was working in the office of the local window supplier who had tripled their workforce.
Michelle and Frank were working for the newest Estate agent to have appeared.
All of these new local jobs were linked to one single industry.

Sorry to say it, but only morons could fail to see that firstly prices had gotten too high and secondly that if there was any drop in construction a lot of people could be out of work.

sarahchristinem

Contact a solicitor re negotiating a deal with your lending institution to capitalise the value of the properties, and minimsing your debt.

StillWaters

Anynama141 wrote: »

You've been speaking to the future?

I hope the place won't be stagnant for a generation, but I'm reasonably confident property is going nowhere but down for the next decade as this shambles works its way through the system. I'll be happy investing again if I see further falls in the 20-30% range from here.

Not just me, the game plan is changing. Good riddance.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2013/04/25/as-the-salt-pillars-of-austerity-crumble-there-will-be-enormous-opportunities

Anynama141

StillWaters wrote: »

Not just me, the game plan is changing. Good riddance.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2013/04/25/as-the-salt-pillars-of-austerity-crumble-there-will-be-enormous-opportunities

StillWaters, I have decent time for McWilliams because a lot of what he says makes sense and he did after all warn about the property bubble.

But he started warning about the bubble in 1999 and it didn't burst for nearly a decade later. Even if he's right about the prospect of recovery - and I sincerely hope he is - his track record also suggests you'd be very foolish to rely on his timing.

StillWaters

Anynama141 wrote: »

StillWaters, I have decent time for McWilliams because a lot of what he says makes sense and he did after all warn about the property bubble.

But he started warning about the bubble in 1999 and it didn't burst for nearly a decade later. Even if he's right about the prospect of recovery - and I sincerely hope he is - his track record also suggests you'd be very foolish to rely on his timing.

He is actually behind the curve on this. There has been anti austerity pressure coming from the IMF for quite a while.
Austerity did not work as EU unemployment levels attest to.
There will of course be challenges with growth stimulus, such as the new structural funds, the main one being the learning of lessons and the importance of good governance.
I am an eternal optimist!

As for what this means for house prices here, a repeat of the past 15 years or stability and rises with inflation? I'd love to say the latter, but I'm not betting my house on it!

gaius c

StillWaters wrote: »

He is actually behind the curve on this. There has been anti austerity pressure coming from the IMF for quite a while.
Austerity did not work as EU unemployment levels attest to.
There will of course be challenges with growth stimulus, such as the new structural funds, the main one being the learning of lessons and the importance of good governance.
I am an eternal optimist!

As for what this means for house prices here, a repeat of the past 15 years or stability and rises with inflation? I'd love to say the latter, but I'm not betting my house on it!

Where is this magic money for "stimulus" going to come from?

belcampprisoner

http://qz.com/50615/welcome-to-ireland-where-house-payments-are-optional-apparently/

StillWaters

gaius c wrote: »

Where is this magic money for "stimulus" going to come from?

You don't think there is money there?

gaius c

StillWaters wrote: »

You don't think there is money there?

Where? And from who?

by the seaside

gaius c wrote: »

Where? And from who?

From printing the new debased currency of course. But who knows how long that will take to play out.

gaius c

by the seaside wrote: »

From printing the new debased currency of course. But who knows how long that will take to play out.

The euro or punt nua?

I should be amazed at the extent to which over-borrowed folk are egging us on to douse the entire economy in petrol and flick a lit match onto it so that we're all in the **** together but then I remember that they are the ones who bought the over-priced tat in the first place.

jmayo

StillWaters wrote: »

He is actually behind the curve on this. There has been anti austerity pressure coming from the IMF for quite a while.
Austerity did not work as EU unemployment levels attest to.

Yes the IMF are against austerity.
Every one from Christine Lagarde right down has been singing this tune.
But get this little nugget, they were also supposedly for giving bondholders a haircut and they were overruled on that at the time of the bailout.
The EU/ECB is the bigger player here and that is controlled by the only ones with the money, the Germans.
And the Germans are pro austerity if it means the public sector in one of the countries it is bailing out is still earning more than it's own public sector.

I always find it laughable and even downright infantile when posters start thinking the ones paying the piper should cough up more so that we can continue to dance away to our own tune.
It is like some around here claiming we can extend our debts much like Germany's war reparations so that we can bailout mortgage defaulters and those in negative equity.

As long as the Germans see the Irish (or Greece, Spain, etc) public sector paid huge money and money wasted by government they will be pro cuts for these countries.
The Germans are for states living within their means and not living recklessly.

StillWaters wrote: »

There will of course be challenges with growth stimulus, such as the new structural funds, the main one being the learning of lessons and the importance of good governance.
I am an eternal optimist!

As for what this means for house prices here, a repeat of the past 15 years or stability and rises with inflation? I'd love to say the latter, but I'm not betting my house on it!

And I wish people would also cop on that even if "austerity" ends in the morning, even if we went back to better employment figures, our property market is not going to recover in the way they want i.e. prices rise.

There is a huge problem with personal debt, all our indigeneous banks are in huge trouble, foreign banks will not take risks here and they often have their own troubles, there is still huge oversupply of some types of property in some areas and there is also property that people will never want i.e. appartments.

by the seaside

gaius c wrote: »

The euro or punt nua?

I should be amazed at the extent to which over-borrowed folk are egging us on to douse the entire economy in petrol and flick a lit match onto it so that we're all in the **** together but then I remember that they are the ones who bought the over-priced tat in the first place.

Could be the MedEuro.

Like it or not, new currency, debasement, inflation is the only way out, however long it takes. Default is an optional extra.

gaius c

by the seaside wrote: »

Could be the MedEuro.

Like it or not, new currency, debasement, inflation is the only way out, however long it takes. Default is an optional extra.

The issue isn't really leaving the euro or staying within and defaulting (and it's a debate worth having), it's the plain vested interest over-borrowed folk have in having everybody else jump out of their lifeboats and into the boiling water with them.