Left Ireland for Australia, left keys in door

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Why not? We did it for the banks, why not for our own, sure they will be paying their taxes too, we will just be freeing them of that noose around their necks.

In turn we will have more people back on their feet and ready to contribute to the economy again.

Our own? We were supposed to get a functional banking system from the bailout. What advantage is it to the average taxpayer to bailout a homeowner?

skyfall2012

Potatoeman wrote: »

Our own? We were supposed to get a functional banking system from the bailout. What advantage is it to the average taxpayer to bailout a homeowner?

That banking system should have been left fail like they did in Iceland and jail the lot.

Partly it is psychological, even though I was not caught up in the boom, I could have just as easily been one of those people who bought a home. I mean watching how these people are being squeezed for money and the fraudsters were handed billions. We are idiots in this country cos we sit back and watch and you even backing it.

Watching how only the fat cats get away with their jobs and their golden handshakes and the government who is supposed to protect and represent the people from this kind of fraud, had help them get away with it with our money, and the borrowers who did nothing wrong but want to work hard and put a roof over their head, get nothing!

The lenders lent the money not according to regulation, the lender caused the crash, the lender gets to keep his job and/or given golden handshake, by government, the borrower who borrowed based on normal economic circumstances would still be paying their mortgages if the lender was not acting fraudulently and caused economic crisis.

In my mind the borrower should have been bailed out and the lender go to hell.

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

That banking system should have been left fail like they did in Iceland and jail the lot.

Partly it is psychological, even though I was not caught up in the boom, I could have just as easily been one of those people who bought a home.

Watching how only the fat cats get away with their jobs and their golden handshakes and the government who is supposed to protect and represent the people from this kind of fraud, had help them get away with it with our money, and the borrowers who did nothing wrong but want to work hard and put a roof over their head, get nothing!

The lenders lent the money not according to regulation, the lender caused the crash, the lender gets to keep his job and/or given golden handshake, by government, the borrower who borrowed based on normal economic circumstances would still be paying their mortgages if the lender was not acting fraudulently and caused economic crisis.

In my mind the borrower should have been bailed out and the lender go to hell.

The banks should have been let fail but homeowners over extending themselves are to blame for their own situation. Its the financial regulator that should have enforced regulation on banks but the borrower knew the terms of their loan.

skyfall2012

Potatoeman wrote: »

The banks should have been let fail but homeowners over extending themselves are to blame for their own situation. Its the financial regulator that should have enforced regulation on banks but the borrower knew the terms of their loan.

Banks are changing the terms of loans taking tracker mortgages away, raising interest rates etc.

Secondly they had not over extended themselves, they had work and were paying their mortgage, but due to the crash caused by fraudulent banking backed by the government, they lost their jobs, but not only that, they have absolutely no hope of getting a job, thanks to the banks. Students who have graduated college since 2008 have been unemployed.

The banks and government have left this country desolate and are ringing the cloth to get the last drop of cash out of the people who got caught in this mess, to their detriment and I can't imagine what it must be like for children growing up in that environment.

What the banks and government did has had a insidious affect on the psychology of the country, everyone is suffering and we are blaming each other.

We have a government running our country who is drinking in the AM while making hugely important decisions, using profanities in the Dail, we are being run by a bunch of idiots and we are sitting back and taking this with no fight, they do not take the Irish people seriously.

For me the only card we have to play is that if those who are struggling are giving a golden handshake and their debts are forgiven or else make sure when they come to evict families out of their homes we stand side by side and fight with them.

It is just like when the British made it impossible for the Irish to pay their rent, they evicted them, but we seem to have a different breed of Irish now, it looks like a few of you will be there to give the banks a hand with these evictions. The only reason I can think of that somebody who was insolvent migth end up with a bigger or nicer house than you, well so what. Everybody deserves to have a roof over their heads.

cookie1977

gaius c wrote: »

See the spending guidelines? They are generous enough that folk joked Sean Quinn drew them up.


It's not "our own". It's a very small proportion of them. More households are pinned to their collars paying increasing rents but you are only concerned about households in arrears. That screams "I have an interest" to everybody here.

Also, to get them back on their feet and spending the wealth they have been gifted and did not earn, the financially competent have been penalised. Try again...

The whole point of the PIA's was to put long term solutions into place for people who's debts were sustainable. If the banks have right of refusal and no independent body can make them accept workable deals then what was the point in PIA legislation anyway. Those mortgages that are totally unsustainable can of course be put through the new bankruptcy laws but there will still be plenty of mortgages that could be sustainable if deals were done that the banks have to accept. Remember these are the same banks that have held repossessed houses which they've held for too long and sold them at prices below what the original owners or they could have achieved if they were sold earlier. I have no doubts that their ineptitude will continue into decisions on PIA agreements thus clogging up our courts with many unnecessary bankruptcy proceedings costing the tax payer more money no doubt.

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Banks are changing the terms of loans taking tracker mortgages away, raising interest rates etc.

Secondly they had not over extended themselves, they had work and were paying their mortgage, but due to the crash caused by fraudulent banking backed by the government, they lost their jobs, but not only that, they have absolutely no hope of getting a job, thanks to the banks. Students who have graduated college since 2008 have been unemployed.

The banks and government have left this country desolate and are ringing the cloth to get the last drop of cash out of the people who got caught in this mess, to their detriment and I can't imagine what it must be like for children growing up in that environment.

What the banks and government did has had a insidious affect on the psychology of the country, everyone is suffering and we are blaming each other.

We have a government running our country who is drinking in the AM while making hugely important decisions, using profanities in the Dail, we are being run by a bunch of idiots and we are sitting back and taking this with no fight, they do not take the Irish people seriously.

For me the only card we have to play is that if those who are struggling are giving a golden handshake and their debts are forgiven or else make sure when they come to evict families out of their homes we stand side by side and fight with them.

It is just like when the British made it impossible for the Irish to pay their rent, they evicted them, but we seem to have a different breed of Irish now, it looks like a few of you will be there to give the banks a hand with these evictions. The only reason I can think of that somebody who was insolvent migth end up with a bigger or nicer house than you, well so what. Everybody deserves to have a roof over their heads.

People over extended themselves andlived on credit, ignoring the fact that it had to be paid back. Amortgage is a long term commitment and many people needed twosalaries to service their mortgage. Many of these people planned tohave kids but didn't do the basic maths to see if they could affordto live on a single income.

You will not get people to standtogether to stop evictions as many people were kept out of thehousing market by the very people you want to protect. If you cantmake you payments either reach terms with your bank of file forbankruptcy.

People voted FF back in when it wasclear Bertie was corrupt so I guess the Bernard Shaw quote is true:'Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no betterthan we deserve.'

skyfall2012

Potatoeman wrote: »

People over extended themselves andlived on credit, ignoring the fact that it had to be paid back. Amortgage is a long term commitment and many people needed twosalaries to service their mortgage. Many of these people planned tohave kids but didn't do the basic maths to see if they could affordto live on a single income.

You will not get people to standtogether to stop evictions as many people were kept out of thehousing market by the very people you want to protect. If you cantmake you payments either reach terms with your bank of file forbankruptcy.

People voted FF back in when it wasclear Bertie was corrupt so I guess the Bernard Shaw quote is true:'Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no betterthan we deserve.'

Some of them have no income, because of the crash caused by the banks and backed by the Irish government.

You say the banks should have this and the government should have that, but they didn't and they got away with the biggest bank heist ever witnessed.

With that in mind, I think the ordinary person was sold down the Swanny, should also get away with it. It would make me feel better, to know that the bankers, and the government and the big developers weren't the only ones to get away without having to pay a penny.

and check out this thread, this is how we should be thinking
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056994089

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Some of them have no income, because of the crash caused by the banks and backed by the Irish government.

You say the banks should have this and the government should have that, but they didn't and they got away with the biggest bank heist ever witnessed.

With that in mind, I think the ordinary person was sold down the Swanny, should also get away with it. It would make me feel better, to know that the bankers, and the government and the big developers weren't the only ones to get away without having to pay a penny.

and check out this thread, this is how we should be thinking
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056994089

The bailout should not have happened but that does not mean we should have another one for homeowners. You have two years of non-payment before they repossesses, how much more time should this be extended by? These are the same terms that these people signed up to.

skyfall2012

Potatoeman wrote: »

The bailout should not have happened but that does not mean we should have another one for homeowners. You have two years of non-payment before they repossesses, how much more time should this be extended by? These are the same terms that these people signed up to.

The bailout out should not have happened, but it did and the crimes have not been punished and the debt we are paying even though we don't have to because the debt to the bondholders is 'odious debt' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt

But yet we are and nobody gives a sh1t, but still want to see the home owners fry, we I for one would like to see some people on the ground get a break from a mess that they didn't cause, because they have been given a life sentence.

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

The bailout out should not have happened, but it did and the crimes have not been punished and the debt we are paying even though we don't have to because the debt to the bondholders is 'odious debt' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt

But yet we are and nobody gives a sh1t, but still want to see the home owners fry, we I for one would like to see some people on the ground get a break from a mess that they didn't cause, because they have been given a life sentence.

The crimes as you call them won't be punished because it was thefailing of the financial regulator that caused the crisis. This wouldraise too many questions about hoe it was even possible for this tohappen. BOI and AIB entered the developer market very late and thiswas a result of competing with NIB and Anglo.

Your trying to justify taking on even more debt so a small sectionof society can hold onto property they can't afford. The very peoplethat bought into and perpetuated the problem.

skyfall2012

Potatoeman wrote: »

The crimes as you call them won't be punished because it was thefailing of the financial regulator that caused the crisis. This wouldraise too many questions about hoe it was even possible for this tohappen. BOI and AIB entered the developer market very late and thiswas a result of competing with NIB and Anglo.

Your trying to justify taking on even more debt so a small sectionof society can hold onto property they can't afford. The very peoplethat bought into and perpetuated the problem.

What a despotic regime we are being ruled by and we look at the African states and pity them because of the corruption and here it is happening right under our noses and we let it, and we pay their debts and we back the banks in pressurizing our fellow citizens into paying their debts, even though they have destroyed the economy and therefore our fellow citizens have no way of paying their debts no matter how much they want to, where to turn, not the government they won't bail them out, not the banks, not the troika. So Bertie is getting his wish and people are committing suicide.

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

What a despotic regime we are being ruled by and we look at the African states and pity them because of the corruption and here it is happening right under our noses and we let it, and we pay their debts and we back the banks in pressurizing our fellow citizens into paying their debts, even though they have destroyed the economy and therefore our fellow citizens have no way of paying their debts no matter how much they want to, where to turn, not the government they won't bail them out, not the banks, not the troika. So Bertie is getting his wish and people are committing suicide.

People waited too long to question what happened and many of the complaints that people are making now are a result of decisions made years ago. At the very least the bailout agreement should have had stipulations to protect us but its pretty clear from the Anglo tapes that no one had a clue what they were doing in the regulator or the department of finance. That's the most worrying part of this crisis.

carpejugulum

skyfall2012 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/how-much-european-particularly-german-money-was-in-the-irish-economy-when-the-music-stopped-1.1339877

and from the Anglo tapes "Deutschland, Deutschland ueber alas!"

Figures in that article invalidate your claim.

skyfall2012

Potatoeman wrote: »

People waited too long to question what happened and many of the complaints that people are making now are a result of decisions made years ago. At the very least the bailout agreement should have had stipulations to protect us but its pretty clear from the Anglo tapes that no one had a clue what they were doing in the regulator or the department of finance. That's the most worrying part of this crisis.

I don't think time is an issue, nobody wants to jump the gun especially as we weren't sure what all this meant. Not to mind how hard people work and are left with very little time to think and unravel what is happening. So they leave it in the hands of the government in the hope that they will make decisions in the best interests of the people.

Alas the government don't work in the interest of the people and we change government and they are as bad as the last. Privatizing everything so the country has no wealth, cutting public sector spending in all the wrong places, education, health etc. but still give bankers bonuses, pay politician huge wages and pensions.

I was speaking to my child's teacher yesterday and she told me that the schools budget has been cut back by €9,000!! for next year.

So here is the thing all the taxpayer's money is not being used for the taxpayer, all the benefits the taxpayer should get from his taxes are being cut to pay a debt that the taxpayer didn't incur. But, it can be difficult to see what the government is doing, if I hadn't spoken to that teacher I might not have known the plight the school was in.

The Irish Economy had difficulty getting off its feet after we gained our independence from Britain, partly due to the attitude of the Irish people towards success, and I think the attitude of the Irish people is playing a part in allowing this recession to continue and the government and banks have free reign to serve their own needs.

I think we need to stop paying the bondholders and start putting our taxes back into the economy.

The debt is 'Odious debt' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt and we should be able to claim the right not to pay it, based on the fact: "In international law, odious debt, also known as illegitimate debt, is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable."

Therefore the Germans shouldn't have lent money to the Irish banks (linked in the Anglo tapes) as they must have known that the banking practices in Ireland were fraudulent and not in the best interest of the nation.

skyfall2012

carpejugulum wrote: »

Figures in that article invalidate your claim.

What part of this invalidates my claim:
"Germany and Ireland, however Bundesbank statistics indicate a growing German investment. In early 2000, German banks had €20 billion invested in Ireland, according to consolidated figures. By the end of 2006 that had quadrupled to €79 billion. By September 2008, the month of the bank guarantee, the level was €135 billion – a 575 per cent increase compared to eight years earlier. Investment declined rapidly between September to October 2010 from €157.5 billion to €78.3 billion. Currently the amount is €51 billion.
The Central Bank of Ireland says Bundesbank data sets relating to Ireland carry health warnings. A law change in 2001 allowed IFSC-based non-Irish-owned banks issue covered bonds which impinge minimally on the Irish domestic bank sector but were still collated in Irish banking data. Thus Bundesbank data relating to Irish banks is, the Irish Central Bank warns, distorted by large capital flows of German banks to and from their IFSC subsidiaries.

Bondholders
Tracking the identity or nationality of bank bondholders is a difficult task. Purchases are anonymised by a clearing house system and bonds change hands rapidly. Consolidated Central Bank figures from August 2008 nevertheless provide an interesting snapshot. Debt securities, including short- and long-term bonds, contributed €107.97 billion to Irish bank financing a month before the bank guarantee. Of this total, one quarter of bonds were in Irish hands, while 63 per cent were held outside the euro area. Euro area banks comprised just 13 per cent of bondholder total"

The Corinthian

skyfall2012 wrote: »

The debt is 'Odious debt' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt and we should be able to claim the right not to pay it, based on the fact: "In international law, odious debt, also known as illegitimate debt, is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable."

I've heard the odious debt argument before, but have yet to hear a cogent argument as to why our debt qualifies as such.

After all, odious debts are "considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state" - in other words, you need an undemocratic country with an unaccountable regime that then goes and squanders or embezzles the debt.

Ireland is a developed, democratic nation. We elected - repeatedly - the government that screwed things up, so we are not in a position to wash our hands of responsibility and thus what we have fails to qualify as odious debt.

Ray Palmer

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Banks are changing the terms of loans taking tracker mortgages away, raising interest rates etc.

Secondly they had not over extended themselves, they had work and were paying their mortgage, but due to the crash caused by fraudulent banking backed by the government, they lost their jobs, but not only that, they have absolutely no hope of getting a job, thanks to the banks. Students who have graduated college since 2008 have been unemployed.

.

Banks have no changed the terms of loans without agreement. People changing the agreement

The banks ins Ireland didn't really cause the crash it is a world wide event. People do have hope of getting work. There are industries screaming out for employees. People need to retrain and they are.

People choosing to study subjects with no employment opportunities. There is a forensic pathology course run at the moment. There is one or two jobs in the whole country. Is the government to blame for this choice of study too.

You are showing so much ignorance on the main subject and every auxiliary thing you drag in. You seem to think the Germans are the biggest creditors for Ireland when it is the UK. A main premise of your argument. The global crash was not caused by Ireland another flag pole on your argument gone. It is such basic stuff that you haven't got right I don't know why you keep arguing on peripheral points given the whole thing has already fallen apart

skyfall2012

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Banks have no changed the terms of loans without agreement. People changing the agreement

The banks ins Ireland didn't really cause the crash it is a world wide event. People do have hope of getting work. There are industries screaming out for employees. People need to retrain and they are.

People choosing to study subjects with no employment opportunities. There is a forensic pathology course run at the moment. There is one or two jobs in the whole country. Is the government to blame for this choice of study too.

You are showing so much ignorance on the main subject and every auxiliary thing you drag in. You seem to think the Germans are the biggest creditors for Ireland when it is the UK. A main premise of your argument. The global crash was not caused by Ireland another flag pole on your argument gone. It is such basic stuff that you haven't got right I don't know why you keep arguing on peripheral points given the whole thing has already fallen apart

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/banks-set-to-take-trackers-off-struggling-borrowers-29355458.html

"THE Central Bank is to give banks the power, for the first time, to take tracker mortgages off struggling householders."

These struggling householders may be paying interest only part of their mortgage, but if the bank change their mortgage terms, they will end up in arrears and a danger of the house being repossessed.

I never said the German's were the biggest creditor for Ireland, I said Ireland were borrowing from the German's, which would make it very much in the German's interest to tie us up in huge debt, make it look like they are helping us when they are really helping themselves.

It doesn't matter what people study in Ireland today they will have to emigrate. Towns and villages in Ireland all over the country have been emptied of their young people. People who don't want to leave cannot get work. The only industry that seems to be healthy is the software industry, one industry.

The global crash was caused by reckless banking, Canada's banks did not get caught up in this global banking mess and are accepting lots of our young people to work there.

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

I don't think time is an issue, nobody wants to jump the gun especially as we weren't sure what all this meant. Not to mind how hard people work and are left with very little time to think and unravel what is happening. So they leave it in the hands of the government in the hope that they will make decisions in the best interests of the people.

Alas the government don't work in the interest of the people and we change government and they are as bad as the last. Privatizing everything so the country has no wealth, cutting public sector spending in all the wrong places, education, health etc. but still give bankers bonuses, pay politician huge wages and pensions.

I was speaking to my child's teacher yesterday and she told me that the schools budget has been cut back by €9,000!! for next year.

So here is the thing all the taxpayer's money is not being used for the taxpayer, all the benefits the taxpayer should get from his taxes are being cut to pay a debt that the taxpayer didn't incur. But, it can be difficult to see what the government is doing, if I hadn't spoken to that teacher I might not have known the plight the school was in.

The Irish Economy had difficulty getting off its feet after we gained our independence from Britain, partly due to the attitude of the Irish people towards success, and I think the attitude of the Irish people is playing a part in allowing this recession to continue and the government and banks have free reign to serve their own needs.

I think we need to stop paying the bondholders and start putting our taxes back into the economy.

The debt is 'Odious debt' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt and we should be able to claim the right not to pay it, based on the fact: "In international law, odious debt, also known as illegitimate debt, is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable."

Therefore the Germans shouldn't have lent money to the Irish banks (linked in the Anglo tapes) as they must have known that the banking practices in Ireland were fraudulent and not in the best interest of the nation.

Decisions were made at the time and comitments made. Its too late now complaining about it. These were made by FF and not FG but they have to honour them.

The public service is a mess and as much to blame for the situation they find themselves in as anyone else. All the spending went on pay increases and staffing and not nearly enough on infrastructure. We were spending money we would not always have and now we are in a downturn they have very little thats easy to cut. Most countries cut infrastructure spending but we cant as it all went on pay.

gaius c

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Some of them have no income, because of the crash caused by the banks and backed by the Irish government.

You say the banks should have this and the government should have that, but they didn't and they got away with the biggest bank heist ever witnessed.

With that in mind, I think the ordinary person was sold down the Swanny, should also get away with it. It would make me feel better, to know that the bankers, and the government and the big developers weren't the only ones to get away without having to pay a penny.

and check out this thread, this is how we should be thinking
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056994089

Nearly 70% of households in arrears still have an income coming in. Now even unemployed people make a contribution to their own rent so there simply has to be strategic defaulting if as many as a third of people in one specific class of arrears are paying 0 towards their mortgage.

gaius c

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Banks are changing the terms of loans taking tracker mortgages away, raising interest rates etc.

Only for those in arrears. If you want to keep your tracker and hold the bank to their end of the contract, try keeping up your end of the contract.

Ray Palmer

skyfall2012 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/banks-set-to-take-trackers-off-struggling-borrowers-29355458.html

"THE Central Bank is to give banks the power, for the first time, to take tracker mortgages off struggling householders."

These struggling householders may be paying interest only part of their mortgage, but if the bank change their mortgage terms, they will end up in arrears and a danger of the house being repossessed.

I never said the German's were the biggest creditor for Ireland, I said Ireland were borrowing from the German's, which would make it very much in the German's interest to tie us up in huge debt, make it look like they are helping us when they are really helping themselves.

It doesn't matter what people study in Ireland today they will have to emigrate. Towns and villages in Ireland all over the country have been emptied of their young people. People who don't want to leave cannot get work. The only industry that seems to be healthy is the software industry, one industry.

The global crash was caused by reckless banking, Canada's banks did not get caught up in this global banking mess and are accepting lots of our young people to work there.

If somebody is not paying their mortgage then they are not keeping to their agreement. So amazingly the terms are changed in line with the customers need to change the terms. That is not the banks changing the terms but the customer. If you read your article you might notice that it is chancers not paying that are a big concern. That is exactly the reason most of your "ideas" won't work

The people are in arrears if they lose their tracker it doesn't cause them to be in arrears because they already are.

The software industry is not the only successful industry still doing well in Ireland. Again showing your ignorance. To claim it doesn't matter what you study is ludicrous.

Lets get this straight who are you blaming for the banking crisis? Was it Irish bankers or international bankers? You chop and change your stance so much when any pressure is placed on you.

Ireland borrowed on the international market which happened to include German companies. You sound paranoid. Everybody in the EU has a vested interest in every other country in the EU.

You seem to think it is all some elaborate plan. The reality is it is actually incompetence and panic.

BTW Canada is on the brink of big trouble

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/04/02/and-canadas-stuck/

jmayo

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Banks are changing the terms of loans taking tracker mortgages away, raising interest rates etc.

Secondly they had not over extended themselves, they had work and were paying their mortgage,

A lot of people had work in the construction industry or offshoots of homebuilding like home fitouts, furnishing, etc.
Now during the bubble they were earning way above normal and any moron could see that sooner or later a downturn in construction had to come.
Thus basing you lending on salaries that long term could not be guaranteed was lunacy.

I am sick and tired of hearing from ex construction workers claiming that they need a bailout because they can no longer afford the massive pads they bought/built and the loans that went with them which were based on hugh overinflated salaries.

skyfall2012 wrote: »

but due to the crash caused by fraudulent banking backed by the government, they lost their jobs, but not only that, they have absolutely no hope of getting a job, thanks to the banks.

Even if the banks were fine we were still going to have a crash.
And yes they pushed in the mnoney that caused the bubble, but I found very few complaing back then and if you did you were labelled another ginger twat mcwilliams.
We had reached a situation where supply was going past demand and the prices were unsustainable.

If you can't see that fact and the fact that a huge chunk of our male population were involved with just cosntruction then you are missing how this happened and who is at fault at least partially.

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Students who have graduated college since 2008 have been unemployed.

The banks and government have left this country desolate and are ringing the cloth to get the last drop of cash out of the people who got caught in this mess, to their detriment and I can't imagine what it must be like for children growing up in that environment.

Except you want to make sure the kids of the ones surviving also get tied to anchors and dragged down.
Well from me and my family the answer is "fook off for yourself and pay for our own debts".

skyfall2012 wrote: »

What the banks and government did has had a insidious affect on the psychology of the country, everyone is suffering and we are blaming each other.

True, but then again what the governments of ahern, nay as far back as haughey, did had an insidious effect on this country.
Did you complain when the government of ahern was making the bubble even bubblier ?
Somehow I bet you didn't.

skyfall2012 wrote: »

We have a government running our country who is drinking in the AM while making hugely important decisions, using profanities in the Dail, we are being run by a bunch of idiots and we are sitting back and taking this with no fight, they do not take the Irish people seriously.

For me the only card we have to play is that if those who are struggling are giving a golden handshake and their debts are forgiven or else make sure when they come to evict families out of their homes we stand side by side and fight with them.

Why should I fight so I get saddled with some other fookers debts ?
Please tell me why I should.
Were these people sharing their "gains" when they had them ?
No they were usually telling me how dumb I was.

skyfall2012 wrote: »

It is just like when the British made it impossible for the Irish to pay their rent, they evicted them, but we seem to have a different breed of Irish now, it looks like a few of you will be there to give the banks a hand with these evictions. The only reason I can think of that somebody who was insolvent migth end up with a bigger or nicer house than you, well so what. Everybody deserves to have a roof over their heads.

And of course renting is not having a roof over ones head.
As we see from many of the property owning entitlement brigade, renters are the untouchables in Ireland.

Potatoeman

skyfall2012 wrote: »

It is just like when the British made it impossible for the Irish to pay their rent, they evicted them, but we seem to have a different breed of Irish now, it looks like a few of you will be there to give the banks a hand with these evictions. The only reason I can think of that somebody who was insolvent migth end up with a bigger or nicer house than you, well so what. Everybody deserves to have a roof over their heads.

These people have options just because you cant afford to keep your delux boom time house does not mean you will be homeless. People have to live within their means and if you cant after two years you have to give up your house.
Why should the rest of us fund their lifestyle?

skyfall2012

I am happy enough with the split mortgage idea to tackle arrears, I think that is fair.

They will be paying current value of the house instead of those inflated and impossible house prices caused by the bubble.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/banks-under-pressure-to-use-split-mortgages-to-tackle-arrears-1.1465599

OMD

skyfall2012 wrote: »

I am happy enough with the split mortgage idea to tackle arrears, I think that is fair.

They will be paying current value of the house instead of those inflated and impossible house prices caused by the bubble.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/banks-under-pressure-to-use-split-mortgages-to-tackle-arrears-1.1465599

It is probably fair but remember they will still have to repay the entire loan.

gaius c

OMD wrote: »

It is probably fair but remember they will still have to repay the entire loan.

By then, the magic (inflation) money tree will have that sorted.

Or else, the children will find that their inheritance is screwed.

OMD

gaius c wrote: »

By then, the magic (inflation) money tree will have that sorted.

Or else, the children will find that their inheritance is screwed.

No reason why the children should expect an inheritance.

You would imagine inflation will certainly have taken care of the capital repayments. How the interest is handled and where interest rates go could be interesting. Not really sure why you refer to it as magic. Inflation is real.

gaius c

OMD wrote: »

No reason why the children should expect an inheritance.

You would imagine inflation will certainly have taken care of the capital repayments. How the interest is handled and where interest rates go could be interesting. Not really sure why you refer to it as magic. Inflation is real.

If you can find us a bank willing to lend long at zero %, then we're sorted with split mortgages.

Rather than kick another can down the road and store up problems for another day, losses should be taken on the chin now.

OMD

gaius c wrote: »

If you can find us a bank willing to lend long at zero %, then we're sorted with split mortgages.

Rather than kick another can down the road and store up problems for another day, losses should be taken on the chin now.

Why would lending have to be at 0%?

With inflation house price goes up. With inflation and time generally speaking income goes up.