Left Ireland for Australia, left keys in door

gaius c

The Spider wrote: »

Repossessions as a last resort

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0313/376503-new-measures-on-arrears-to-include-write-downs/

"Significantly, as part of the new targets for banks, regulators are openly asking lenders to include debt forgiveness if it is appropriate.
In the Central Bank's definition of a sustainable solution, it includes repayment of "a revised principal sum" - in other words some of the debt being written down if the bank offers a deal to a customer."


Going to be a lot of it under the table and it'll be drip fed out to the public until it's pallatable.

God loves a trier but since you're so needy for attention...

The only debt forgiveness we'll see is people having their houses taken off them, sold and being forgiven a portion of the outstanding mortgage.

It makes no financial sense for a bank to give defaulters a free property when they could sell it to somebody else who might actually pay their mortgage and pursue the defaulter to recover as much of the outstanding balance as they can.

The Spider

D3PO wrote: »

no they are talking about split mortgages et all. They are nto referring to jonny getting a reduction from 200k to 100k on his mortgage so that it becomes sustainable.

Your so desperate for writedowns that you cant even see past the newspaper spin.

Ha, I don't need a writedown, I have a pretty small mortgage thanks to the crash, I'm just telling you what's going to happen.

Banks'll write down the loans see what Iceland did.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/iceland-s-debt-write-downs-cleared-a-path-to-recovery-1.1364994?page=2

Anynama141

The Spider wrote: »

Ha, I don't need a writedown, I have a pretty small mortgage thanks to the crash, I'm just telling you what's going to happen.

Banks'll write down the loans see what Iceland did.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/iceland-s-debt-write-downs-cleared-a-path-to-recovery-1.1364994?page=2

Iceland has its own currency and can do what it likes with it.

We don't and we can't.

The Spider

gaius c wrote: »

God loves a trier but since you're so needy for attention...

The only debt forgiveness we'll see is people having their houses taken off them, sold and being forgiven a portion of the outstanding mortgage.

It makes no financial sense for a bank to give defaulters a free property when they could sell it to somebody else who might actually pay their mortgage and pursue the defaulter to recover as much of the outstanding balance as they can.

It's not a free property they still have to pay back a loan, it's just been recalculated to a lower amount.

(Thanks for the attention)

The Spider

Oh one more

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/03/11/repossessions-and-gagging-orders/



“The secret document obliges mortgage holders ‘not to disclose to any third party the fact that negotiations are taking place’ on restructuring the mortgage.”

Now another word for restructuring is writedown, deluded if you think differently.

D3PO

The Spider wrote: »

It's not a free property they still have to pay back a loan, it's just been recalculated to a lower amount.

(Thanks for the attention)

Think you on the wrong board my friend. After Hours much more suited to you Id say :rolleyes:

D3PO

The Spider wrote: »

Oh one more

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/03/11/repossessions-and-gagging-orders/



“The secret document obliges mortgage holders ‘not to disclose to any third party the fact that negotiations are taking place’ on restructuring the mortgage.”

Now another word for restructuring is writedown, deluded if you think differently.

no write off is another word for writedown.

reorganizing is another word for restructuring.

Keep casting off though you will get somebody to bite eventually

The Spider

D3PO wrote: »

no write off is another word for writedown.

reorganizing is another word for restructuring.

Keep casting off though you will get somebody to bite eventually

Sigh!, anyway the official description:

Loan Restructuring Overview

• Loan restructuring can include consolidation, re-amortization or even write down of a debt. Restructuring often occurs if there is a change in the market or the borrower's needs, and the lender agrees to change a contract accordingly.
  
  

Now I think anyone who has any sense knows that people who have no cash are pretty much left looking at one option out of the above.

I don't know what's so hard about this, it's common sense, there's nowhere else to go, you can't get blood out of a stone and all that, yes you can repossess, banks won't though unless they absolutely have to as a last resort, they've been warned by the government, and our country culturally will rail against repos.

Releasing a glut of em'll do damage to house prices and we know no one wants that, so all you're left with is the write down.

Now, cue the insults and calls of "unfair I rented in a 1 bedroom basement flat with 100 albanians to avoid the boom, I want anyone who bought publically burned, and anyone who even says my basement time was in vain!"

cookie1977

Anynama141 wrote: »

There are about 30,000 properties for sale in Ireland. If only 10% of 'PPRs' in arrears turn out to be BTLs, then that's a 33% increase in supply.

Increase the supply of anything by 33% and it is quite significant.

Ah now here stop it. It depends too on what and where these properties are in ireland. There's enough speculation going on without trying to use stats to try to prove speculation.

jmayo

Why does this seem apt ?

Anynama141

cookie1977 wrote: »

Ah now here stop it. It depends too on what and where these properties are in ireland. There's enough speculation going on without trying to use stats to try to prove speculation.

I used stats to prove 'speculation' during the 2000s and decided that we were in a property bubble.

Common sense and some numbers will take you a long way.

cookie1977

Anynama141 wrote: »

I used stats to prove 'speculation' during the 2000s and decided that we were in a property bubble.

Common sense and some numbers will take you a long way.

I'll take your word on it so.

lima

The Spider wrote: »

Sigh!, anyway the official description:

Loan Restructuring Overview

• Loan restructuring can include consolidation, re-amortization or even write down of a debt. Restructuring often occurs if there is a change in the market or the borrower's needs, and the lender agrees to change a contract accordingly.
  
  

Now I think anyone who has any sense knows that people who have no cash are pretty much left looking at one option out of the above.

I don't know what's so hard about this, it's common sense, there's nowhere else to go, you can't get blood out of a stone and all that, yes you can repossess, banks won't though unless they absolutely have to as a last resort, they've been warned by the government, and our country culturally will rail against repos.

Releasing a glut of em'll do damage to house prices and we know no one wants that, so all you're left with is the write down.

Now, cue the insults and calls of "unfair I rented in a 1 bedroom basement flat with 100 albanians to avoid the boom, I want anyone who bought publically burned, and anyone who even says my basement time was in vain!"

repossessions will happen, property is falling still and will fall further and further, Ireland will remain stagnant for a generation.

StillWaters

lima wrote: »

Ireland will remain stagnant for a generation.

thankfully you are utterly wrong.

Anynama141

StillWaters wrote: »

thankfully you are utterly wrong.

You've been speaking to the future?

I hope the place won't be stagnant for a generation, but I'm reasonably confident property is going nowhere but down for the next decade as this shambles works its way through the system. I'll be happy investing again if I see further falls in the 20-30% range from here.

The Corinthian

Anynama141 wrote: »

I used stats to prove 'speculation' during the 2000s and decided that we were in a property bubble.

Common sense and some numbers will take you a long way.

I did much the same, in 2004. Many people did.

jmayo

All one had to do was look at the value of property in the area you grew up in.
Suddenly your neighbours house was worth 2 or 3 times what it had been a few years before.
Suddenly you could not afford to live in your local area because you now needed a job paying 10 times more than that of people who had bought in the area 5 years before.

I grew up in the country and suddenly 3/4 bed standard houses in the local town were worth the sames as similar houses in Galway city had been a few years before.
Suddenly a half acre site in the ar**hole of nowhere was running at 20 times the price of agricultural land.

Guys were suddenly selling ruins of old houses that had been used as barns for years at prices that one would have paid for an actual house in the area a few years before.

And it became even more apparent that it was a house of cards when you stood back and checked out where all the new employment in the local area was coming from.

Jimmy was plastering and had a few lads working for him.
Johnny was a sparks and likewise had lads working for him.
Mary was working in a new furniture shop.
Larry was driving one of the many new readymix trucks that the local quarry man had invested in.
Katie was working in the office of the local window supplier who had tripled their workforce.
Michelle and Frank were working for the newest Estate agent to have appeared.
All of these new local jobs were linked to one single industry.

Sorry to say it, but only morons could fail to see that firstly prices had gotten too high and secondly that if there was any drop in construction a lot of people could be out of work.

sarahchristinem

Contact a solicitor re negotiating a deal with your lending institution to capitalise the value of the properties, and minimsing your debt.

StillWaters

Anynama141 wrote: »

You've been speaking to the future?

I hope the place won't be stagnant for a generation, but I'm reasonably confident property is going nowhere but down for the next decade as this shambles works its way through the system. I'll be happy investing again if I see further falls in the 20-30% range from here.

Not just me, the game plan is changing. Good riddance.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2013/04/25/as-the-salt-pillars-of-austerity-crumble-there-will-be-enormous-opportunities

Anynama141

StillWaters wrote: »

Not just me, the game plan is changing. Good riddance.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2013/04/25/as-the-salt-pillars-of-austerity-crumble-there-will-be-enormous-opportunities

StillWaters, I have decent time for McWilliams because a lot of what he says makes sense and he did after all warn about the property bubble.

But he started warning about the bubble in 1999 and it didn't burst for nearly a decade later. Even if he's right about the prospect of recovery - and I sincerely hope he is - his track record also suggests you'd be very foolish to rely on his timing.

StillWaters

Anynama141 wrote: »

StillWaters, I have decent time for McWilliams because a lot of what he says makes sense and he did after all warn about the property bubble.

But he started warning about the bubble in 1999 and it didn't burst for nearly a decade later. Even if he's right about the prospect of recovery - and I sincerely hope he is - his track record also suggests you'd be very foolish to rely on his timing.

He is actually behind the curve on this. There has been anti austerity pressure coming from the IMF for quite a while.
Austerity did not work as EU unemployment levels attest to.
There will of course be challenges with growth stimulus, such as the new structural funds, the main one being the learning of lessons and the importance of good governance.
I am an eternal optimist!

As for what this means for house prices here, a repeat of the past 15 years or stability and rises with inflation? I'd love to say the latter, but I'm not betting my house on it!

gaius c

StillWaters wrote: »

He is actually behind the curve on this. There has been anti austerity pressure coming from the IMF for quite a while.
Austerity did not work as EU unemployment levels attest to.
There will of course be challenges with growth stimulus, such as the new structural funds, the main one being the learning of lessons and the importance of good governance.
I am an eternal optimist!

As for what this means for house prices here, a repeat of the past 15 years or stability and rises with inflation? I'd love to say the latter, but I'm not betting my house on it!

Where is this magic money for "stimulus" going to come from?

belcampprisoner

http://qz.com/50615/welcome-to-ireland-where-house-payments-are-optional-apparently/

StillWaters

gaius c wrote: »

Where is this magic money for "stimulus" going to come from?

You don't think there is money there?

gaius c

StillWaters wrote: »

You don't think there is money there?

Where? And from who?

by the seaside

gaius c wrote: »

Where? And from who?

From printing the new debased currency of course. But who knows how long that will take to play out.

gaius c

by the seaside wrote: »

From printing the new debased currency of course. But who knows how long that will take to play out.

The euro or punt nua?

I should be amazed at the extent to which over-borrowed folk are egging us on to douse the entire economy in petrol and flick a lit match onto it so that we're all in the **** together but then I remember that they are the ones who bought the over-priced tat in the first place.

jmayo

StillWaters wrote: »

He is actually behind the curve on this. There has been anti austerity pressure coming from the IMF for quite a while.
Austerity did not work as EU unemployment levels attest to.

Yes the IMF are against austerity.
Every one from Christine Lagarde right down has been singing this tune.
But get this little nugget, they were also supposedly for giving bondholders a haircut and they were overruled on that at the time of the bailout.
The EU/ECB is the bigger player here and that is controlled by the only ones with the money, the Germans.
And the Germans are pro austerity if it means the public sector in one of the countries it is bailing out is still earning more than it's own public sector.

I always find it laughable and even downright infantile when posters start thinking the ones paying the piper should cough up more so that we can continue to dance away to our own tune.
It is like some around here claiming we can extend our debts much like Germany's war reparations so that we can bailout mortgage defaulters and those in negative equity.

As long as the Germans see the Irish (or Greece, Spain, etc) public sector paid huge money and money wasted by government they will be pro cuts for these countries.
The Germans are for states living within their means and not living recklessly.

StillWaters wrote: »

There will of course be challenges with growth stimulus, such as the new structural funds, the main one being the learning of lessons and the importance of good governance.
I am an eternal optimist!

As for what this means for house prices here, a repeat of the past 15 years or stability and rises with inflation? I'd love to say the latter, but I'm not betting my house on it!

And I wish people would also cop on that even if "austerity" ends in the morning, even if we went back to better employment figures, our property market is not going to recover in the way they want i.e. prices rise.

There is a huge problem with personal debt, all our indigeneous banks are in huge trouble, foreign banks will not take risks here and they often have their own troubles, there is still huge oversupply of some types of property in some areas and there is also property that people will never want i.e. appartments.

by the seaside

gaius c wrote: »

The euro or punt nua?

I should be amazed at the extent to which over-borrowed folk are egging us on to douse the entire economy in petrol and flick a lit match onto it so that we're all in the **** together but then I remember that they are the ones who bought the over-priced tat in the first place.

Could be the MedEuro.

Like it or not, new currency, debasement, inflation is the only way out, however long it takes. Default is an optional extra.

gaius c

by the seaside wrote: »

Could be the MedEuro.

Like it or not, new currency, debasement, inflation is the only way out, however long it takes. Default is an optional extra.

The issue isn't really leaving the euro or staying within and defaulting (and it's a debate worth having), it's the plain vested interest over-borrowed folk have in having everybody else jump out of their lifeboats and into the boiling water with them.

by the seaside

There are lots of issues. The new currency and debasement approach makes the water less boiling by inflating away the debt (and of course the savings of those who have taken the cash is king approach). And it restores competitiveness by lowering wage costs against other currencies.

gaius c

by the seaside wrote: »

There are lots of issues. The new currency and debasement approach makes the water less boiling by inflating away the debt (and of course the savings of those who have taken the cash is king approach). And it restores competitiveness by lowering wage costs against other currencies.

Not true. Imports will become more expensive and inflating debt away only works if two things happen together:
-devalue the currency
-wages increase so that debt becomes manageable

However, those two together will cancel out the cost reduction of messing with exchange rates.

by the seaside

gaius c wrote: »

Not true. Imports will become more expensive and inflating debt away only works if two things happen together:
-devalue the currency
-wages increase so that debt becomes manageable

However, those two together will cancel out the cost reduction of messing with exchange rates.

Imports becoming more expensive is part of being more competitive.

The new currency would sink like a stone, so no need to worry there, particularly as that is a key objective so in the unlikely event that it doesn't you lower interest rates and print money until it does. Wages don't need to increase to make the debt more manageable because the debt is redenominated in the new currency - which along with inflation creates a soft default.

Look how Iceland's currency has fared.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=ISK&to=EUR&view=10Y

gaius c

by the seaside wrote: »

Imports becoming more expensive is part of being more competitive.

The new currency would sink like a stone, so no need to worry there, particularly as that is a key objective so in the unlikely event that it doesn't you lower interest rates and print money until it does. Wages don't need to increase to make the debt more manageable because the debt is redenominated in the new currency - which along with inflation creates a soft default.

Look how Iceland's currency has fared.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=ISK&to=EUR&view=10Y

Oh great more voodoo economics...
The debt won't be redenominated in the new currency because the folks we owe it to work in euros and they'll want to be paid back in euros since that's what they loaned us.

And the wages do need to increase relative to the debt, otherwise we can't shrink it.

We're an open economy and a small one with limited natural resources at that. Increase the cost of our imports and as sure as night follows day, our cost of exports will increase too.

Now your next step is default and I kind of agree with that one but for entirely different reasons to you. Firstly, I have no interest in burning the entire economy to save 7% of households who over-borrowed. I do however have an interest in saving the sovereign state that is living way beyond it's means.

However, default means 30% public sector paycuts as we'll have to close the budget gap to zero overnight. I'm okay with that but I suspect that a lot of folk won't be.

Forget the New Beginnings-type BS. Iceland is still a basket-case with capital controls in place to stop money leaving the economy.

Just pay your mortgages folks and stop demanding that the entire state runs economic policy to suit you. You're a minority of Irish people, an extremely vocal one but a minority nonetheless.

by the seaside

gaius c wrote: »

Oh great more voodoo economics...
The debt won't be redenominated in the new currency because the folks we owe it to work in euros and they'll want to be paid back in euros since that's what they loaned us.

And the wages do need to increase relative to the debt, otherwise we can't shrink it.

We're an open economy and a small one with limited natural resources at that. Increase the cost of our imports and as sure as night follows day, our cost of exports will increase too.

Now your next step is default and I kind of agree with that one but for entirely different reasons to you. Firstly, I have no interest in burning the entire economy to save 7% of households who over-borrowed. I do however have an interest in saving the sovereign state that is living way beyond it's means.

However, default means 30% public sector paycuts as we'll have to close the budget gap to zero overnight. I'm okay with that but I suspect that a lot of folk won't be.

Forget the New Beginnings-type BS. Iceland is still a basket-case with capital controls in place to stop money leaving the economy.

Just pay your mortgages folks and stop demanding that the entire state runs economic policy to suit you. You're a minority of Irish people, an extremely vocal one but a minority nonetheless.

Pass a law to redenominate debt and guess what? It's law!

If overseas imports are more expensive them home produced goods are more competitive.

This is not voodoo economics but the inevitable end game.

What is nonsensical economics is the belief that a sovereign state can be part of a currency union without a fiscal union.

The Corinthian

by the seaside wrote: »

Pass a law to redenominate debt and guess what? It's law!

So we get to repay other nations in our 'new' currency and whatever value we set it at?

That ends well...

by the seaside

The Corinthian wrote: »

So we get to repay other nations in our 'new' currency and whatever value we set it at?

That ends well...

That's defaulting for you. But there really is no alternative.

The Corinthian

by the seaside wrote: »

That's defaulting for you. But there really is no alternative.

If you'd demonstrated in this discussion that there isn't, I might take that seriously. Instead, defaulting on international debts is one of the most stupid ideas I've heard in years.

gaius c

by the seaside wrote: »

Pass a law to redenominate debt and guess what? It's law!

If overseas imports are more expensive them home produced goods are more competitive.

This is not voodoo economics but the inevitable end game.

What is nonsensical economics is the belief that a sovereign state can be part of a currency union without a fiscal union.

Just so that you know, this was the type of economic thinking that 19th century laissez faire economists thought would pull Ireland out of the Great Famine.

Home produced goods can only be competitive if we have the capability to manufacture them in the first place. We strangled what was left of our manufacturing industry during the bubble years. Aside from agricultural produce, there is shag all indigenous produce coming out of our economy and if we leave the euro, the MNC's will be gone too.

Stop the dishonesty please. You have no interest in default for the wider economy's sake. You just want to get off the hook for your own debts by any means necessary.

by the seaside

The Corinthian wrote: »

If you'd demonstrated in this discussion that there isn't, I might take that seriously. Instead, defaulting on international debts is one of the most stupid ideas I've heard in years.

Then let's catch up in a few years, perhaps a little more courteously. Presumably you think the Euro will still be going strong.

The most stupid idea was bailing out the banks' bond holders.

The Corinthian

by the seaside wrote: »

Then let's catch up in a few years, perhaps a little more courteously. Presumably you think the Euro will still be going strong.

I made no comment on the Euro being around or not. I questioned the sanity of Ireland unilaterally defaulting on international debts. If in a few years you're capable of making such distinctions and understanding how economics and international politics work, I've no doubt that our discourse will be more courteous.

MagnusDamm

Seems like I'm not the only one with a problem! I'm on the same boat it would appear only not so far away!

jmayo

by the seaside wrote: »

Pass a law to redenominate debt and guess what? It's law!

So let me get this straight ?
Larry the mortgage defaulter, who owes €300,000, goes to his bank and tells Paddy the banker he will now pay him Punt Nua 300,000 (which btw is worth €30,000) and Paddy the banker says fine Larry, good man.
Then Paddy the banker goes to Helmut in the ECB and tells him he will give him Punt Nua rather than euro.
Of course Paddy now has only Punt Nua 300,000 or €30,000 to repay Helmut the €300,000 he owes him.
Am I the only one that sees and issue with this ??

by the seaside wrote: »

If overseas imports are more expensive them home produced goods are more competitive.

Do you have any idea how little we manufacture here or for that matter how little of the fruit, veg, foodstuffs we eat on a daily basis we grow here ?
BTW have you discovered a major source of oil ?

Oh and stop reading or believeing in the codswollop spouted by Dev.

by the seaside wrote: »

This is not voodoo economics but the inevitable end game.

What is nonsensical economics is the belief that a sovereign state can be part of a currency union without a fiscal union.

True for a currency union there needs to be a strict fiscal policy across the members to ensure that states all are headed in the same direction.

The Corinthian

jmayo wrote: »

m I the only one that sees and issue with this ??

No, I'd imagine that anyone with an IQ above room temperature would. Giving international creditors the finger is a dangerous game. To begin with, you'll be locked out of the international financial markets. Secondly, you will end up with significant, if not prohibitory, barriers against any kind of international trade. Then, of course, there is the political dimension too; our diplomatic influence would end up, well, gone.

Argentina followed the default route over ten years ago. What followed was a 20% drop in GDP, depreciation of it's currency by 70% and unemployment levels of 25%. It still hasn't recovered and will take a very long time to do so. And Argentina, before we forget, is a significantly larger economy than Ireland, with more and more varied resources than Ireland - we actually can't be self-sufficient. Not a hope.

And if history has taught us anything, it's that the self-sufficiency road is not a pleasant one. We largely tried it and as a result were effectively a second-World nation up until we liberalized. The only other historical examples that come to mind of 'self-sufficient' economies are North Korea and communist Albania; need I say more?

Defaulting on our international debts so as to avoid the economic pain of those debts is a bit like suicide to avoid being sent to prison. Dumb.

Then again, my experience is that those who advocate it tend to be those who do so more for eurosceptic reasons than anything to do with the debts themselves. They'd happily see us all in an even bigger financial pile of excrement if it got us out of the EU.

True for a currency union there needs to be a strict fiscal policy across the members to ensure that states all are headed in the same direction.

To an extent; countries such as the US and Switzerland allow for fiscal autonomy and are able to maintain a currency union without imposing draconian central fiscal control.

Of course, that's not to say that how the Euro was launched was foresighted; it effectively had no fiscal rules; just a few hypothetical targets that were ignored whenever anyone felt like it.

gaius c

Argentina had post-default problems because they defaulted but then messed around doing a deal with their creditors. Default was the correct option for them but they implemented it very badly. Russia defaulted and notwithstanding other post-communism problems that they've had, they did recover significantly from the catastrophes of the Yeltsin years.

Lativia should be our model for a "how to" on default. They did a deal quickly, efficiently and then they stuck to it. Some of the stuff they did:
• A 20% cut in the average public sector salary in the 2009 budget followed by a further 5% reduction in the 2010 budget

• A reduction in the number of government agencies from 76 to 39

• A reduction in the number of hospitals from 59 to 42

• An increase in the main VAT rate from 18% to 21%

Nothing about burning depositors in there!

As to whether we should default, I'd much prefer to discuss it in a place where the discussion won't be hijacked by desperate insolvents hoping to get somebody else to pay for their debts but the quick answer is that I think it's too late now and we gave away our chips back in 2009.

skyfall2012

gaius c wrote: »

As to whether we should default, I'd much prefer to discuss it in a place where the discussion won't be hijacked by desperate insolvents hoping to get somebody else to pay for their debts but the quick answer is that I think it's too late now and we gave away our chips back in 2009.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-prof-tells-the-banks-ill-blame-you-for-suicides-29418331.html

These desperate insolvents had intended on paying their own debts until 'THE BANKS' knowingly destroyed the economy.

The Corinthian

skyfall2012 wrote: »

These desperate insolvents had intended on paying their own debts until 'THE BANKS' knowingly destroyed the economy.

How noble of them...

...no doubt many of the more irresponsible bankers had intended on lending responsibly too, until they realized that less responsible bankers weren't.

If you look for a moral justification for the immoral long enough, you'll always find it.

Zambia

skyfall2012 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-prof-tells-the-banks-ill-blame-you-for-suicides-29418331.html

These desperate insolvents had intended on paying their own debts until 'THE BANKS' knowingly destroyed the economy.

Hang on is this bloke saying that the banks are not allowed chase people for the money they are owed because they may commit suicide.

The whole principal of a mortgage is if you don't keep up the re-payments the bank take the house.

How do you propose the banks get their money?

skyfall2012

Zambia wrote: »

Hang on is this bloke saying that the banks are not allowed chase people for the money they are owed because they may commit suicide.

The whole principal of a mortgage is if you don't keep up the re-payments the bank take the house.

How do you propose the banks get their money?

The banks are getting plenty of money out of us, they want the tax payer to pay their debts caused by themselves (refer to anglo tapes) and they also want people to pay their mortgages, even though the banks caused the economy to crash. You must work for a bank.

Zambia

skyfall2012 wrote: »

The banks are getting plenty of money out of us, they want the tax payer to pay their debts caused by themselves (refer to anglo tapes) and they also want people to pay their mortgages, even though the banks caused the economy to crash. You must work for a bank.

A is currently not paying his mortgage to bank B.

How does B get their money?