Revenue property valuations

orlaanne

Daft have valued my house at over 50k what I paid for it!

D3PO

Very strange. Just opened my letter from revenue re property tax. Letter has valued my property in band 4 (Which would be my assesment of it) yet their website has be valued in Band 05.

Seems myself , revenue & dafts tool all value my peoperty in the same band with only the revenues own website showing what Id consider an incorrect valuation.

Ogham

D3PO wrote: »

Very strange. Just opened my letter from revenue re property tax. Letter has valued my property in band 4 (Which would be my assesment of it) yet their website has be valued in Band 05.

Seems myself , revenue & dafts tool all value my peoperty in the same band with only the revenues own website showing what Id consider an incorrect valuation.

The revenue website is more specific - it lets you choose the type of property you own and shows you the average price for that type of property in your locality.
The Revenue don't know what type of property you live in - so the estimate on the letter will be based on average values for all the houses in the area .
Fully explained here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-letter-estimates-differ-from-valuation-guide.html

PS The Revenue have not actually valued your house - that's for you to do.

D3PO

Ogham wrote: »

The revenue website is more specific - it lets you choose the type of property you own and shows you the average price for that type of property in your locality.
The Revenue don't know what type of property you live in - so the estimate on the letter will be based on average values for all the houses in the area .
Fully explained here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-letter-estimates-differ-from-valuation-guide.html

PS The Revenue have not actually valued your house - that's for you to do.

Im well aware they havent valued my house. Id also argue that their website is not specific at all, it doesnt even break down to number of bedrooms which makes as unspecific as their letter.

I understand why the letter and website might be different. Its still strange though.

blueturnip

D3PO wrote: »

Very strange. Just opened my letter from revenue re property tax. Letter has valued my property in band 4 (Which would be my assesment of it) yet their website has be valued in Band 05.

Seems myself , revenue & dafts tool all value my peoperty in the same band with only the revenues own website showing what Id consider an incorrect valuation.

I've gotten my letter today also. They have put my house in band 4.
The website has it in band 3.

We only bought last July and we would definitely be in band 3. That's what I'll be going with.

CuppaCocoa

Quick question. We have a 3 bed terraced house. We made 2 bedrooms into 1 larger one. Is it effectively a 2 bed house now or would it still be classified as a 3 bed? Also, we have a small toilet added on. Does this make it a 2 bathroomed house?

Bigcheeze

So it's clear that Revenue are issuing letters with differing valuation from the LPT website. So what is the point of the website ?

Also the poll on the thread is now pretty irrelevant because the valuation on the website is not the valuation they are actually using.

Ogham

They are not valuing your house .

Bigcheeze

Ogham wrote: »

They are not valuing your house .

It's valuation guidance that people will rely on and feel intimidated to go below. Stop being so bloody pedantic.

They're not doing it for fun

Bullseye1

D3PO wrote: »

assume your taking realised sales vaues and not asking prices as asking priced mean nothing. My view the higher value must be used.

How so? What if the lower value is the more recently sold dwelling?

Bullseye1

Revenue on the map have me in a band below the daft.ie band. According to daft I am €5,000 over the limit of the band revenue have me in. I'll do some more research on sales of simliar houses sold in my area and include them with my return.

Bullseye1

orlaanne wrote: »

Daft have valued my house at over 50k what I paid for it!

Did you buy it recently? If so you should only pay what you bought the property for. There should be a record of the sales price on the Irish Property Registrar.

D3PO

Bullseye1 wrote: »

How so? What if the lower value is the more recently sold dwelling?

Thats just my opinion ultimatly value your place however you like, but if people decide to go on the conservative side of things and get hit for interest and penalties then they can have no complaints.

Bigcheeze

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Revenue on the map have me in a band below the daft.ie band. According to daft I am €5,000 over the limit of the band revenue have me in. I'll do some more research on sales of simliar houses sold in my area and include them with my return.

Have you actually got the letter yet ? The letters are guiding different bands than the map.

Wise Old Elf

Revenue estimated house value at 250k - 300k.
Last two comparable houses sold for €212k and €191k, so unsure which to choose. My house is in need of a small bit of work, so tempted to go for lower band, but thinking about it before I commit.

D3PO

Disco Stuart wrote: »

Revenue estimated house value at 250k - 300k.
Last two comparable houses sold for €212k and €191k, so unsure which to choose. My house is in need of a small bit of work, so tempted to go for lower band, but thinking about it before I commit.

if you go down 2 bands you can be sure Revenue will come knocking at some stage. 1 band lower is one thing, trying to argue given what you have said that you are two bands lower is unlikely to fly.

Bullseye1

D3PO wrote: »

if you go down 2 bands you can be sure Revenue will come knocking at some stage. 1 band lower is one thing, trying to argue given what you have said that you are two bands lower is unlikely to fly.

If its the market value how can they argue. The OP only needs to supply those figures with his return. Even if he does use the higher value of the two houses provided he would well be in his right to do so. You seem to want everyone to overvalue the actual market value

Bullseye1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Have you actually got the letter yet ? The letters are guiding different bands than the map.

Haven't received it yet. Just the map valuation on the site and daft. I've also been researching on the property register and I'd be inclinded to value the house at the highest point of the lower band. I'll do some more research to have as much info with my return. That €90 a year difference can go towards the water charge.:D

D3PO

Bullseye1 wrote: »

If its the market value how can they argue. The OP only needs to supply those figures with his return. Even if he does use the higher value of the two houses provided he would well be in his right to do so. You seem to want everyone to overvalue the actual market value

I dont care what people value at. I just want people to be aware that flimsy reasons to go with a lower value will be caught eventually and I will have no sympathy for anybody hit hard with penalties for doing so.

last two houses sold 191 and 212k for the sake of a few euros I think its idiotic to try argue your house is worth 150-200k in that scenario. If you do and reveue accept it so be it. If you do and they dont and you get hit we penalties I have no sympathy for you thats all Im saying.

Bullseye1

D3PO wrote: »

Thats just my opinion ultimatly value your place however you like, but if people decide to go on the conservative side of things and get hit for interest and penalties then they can have no complaints.

They have been asked to value at the price they would expect to be make as of 1st May of this year. If that is the lower value now I see no problem. If in three or four years time when a new valuation is required they find that market values have increased they can then value accordingly. I see no reason to overvalue.

Bullseye1

D3PO wrote: »

I dont care what people value at. I just want people to be aware that flimsy reasons to go with a lower value will be caught eventually and I will have no sympathy for anybody hit hard with penalties for doing so.

last two houses sold 191 and 212k for the sake of a few euros I think its idiotic to try argue your house is worth 150-200k in that scenario. If you do and reveue accept it so be it. If you do and they dont and you get hit we penalties I have no sympathy for you thats all Im saying.

One house sold of €9k below one band and the other €12k over the band. He would be safe, very safe in saying its worth €200k.

Cathmandooo

Surely you'd take the average of those two sales being €201k to put you in the 200k-250k tax bracket?

Bullseye1

Cathmandooo wrote: »

Surely you'd take the average of those two sales being €201k to put you in the 200k-250k tax bracket?

Not necessarily. The higher price might have been sold say two years ago and the lower price in the past year. That would show a true reduction that is happening in the property market. Prices are continuing to fall in most locations outside of Dublin. If the higher price is the more recent price then yes I would put the value in the higher band rather than take the chance.

D3PO

Bullseye1 wrote: »

They have been asked to value at the price they would expect to be make as of 1st May of this year. If that is the lower value now I see no problem. If in three or four years time when a new valuation is required they find that market values have increased they can then value accordingly. I see no reason to overvalue.

Im not saying people should overvalue. Im saying they shouldnt undervalue. There are a lot of people with fairly lightweight arguments as to why they should be in a lower band.

I find valuing a house at 150 - 200k when the last 2 sales averaged over 200k and with one of the last two sales going for 212k as flimsy. Ultimate my opinion doesnt matter but if people kid themselves into believing they are placing a genuine valuation on their property then if they get hit with interest and penalties then they can have no complaints.

D3PO

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Not necessarily. The higher price might have been sold say two years ago and the lower price in the past year. That would show a true reduction that is happening in the property market. Prices are continuing to fall in most locations outside of Dublin. If the higher price is the more recent price then yes I would put the value in the higher band rather than take the chance.

he said sold recently. Two years ago isnt recently.

Bullseye1

D3PO wrote: »

Im not saying people should overvalue. Im saying they shouldnt undervalue. There are a lot of people with fairly lightweight arguments as to why they should be in a lower band.

I find valuing a house at 150 - 200k when the last 2 sales averaged over 200k and with one of the last two sales going for 212k as flimsy. Ultimate my opinion doesnt matter but if people kid themselves into believing they are placing a genuine valuation on their property then if they get hit with interest and penalties then they can have no complaints.

One of the houses was €191k that is in a lower band. If that is the more recent value even if you value your house at €200k revenue are not going to see that as purposely undervaluing because a house sold for €212k previous to the lower value. Also there maybe a reason why one house sold for €212k, ie an extension which the other house has etc. There is much more permutations than simple value. Are both houses the same house type?

D3PO

Bullseye1 wrote: »

One of the houses was €191k that is in a lower band. If that is the more recent value even if you value your house at €200k revenue are not going to see that as purposely undervaluing because a house sold for €212k previous to the lower value. Also there maybe a reason why one house sold for €212k, ie an extension which the other house has etc. There is much more permutations than simple value. Are both houses the same house type?

True there is more to consider aswell. All Im saying is that many people are trying to convince themselves that their hosue is worth less now to save a few quid but if they are honest they know its not the case.

Take the semi D terraced house thread. The OP, they know what their house is and what its worth yet they are trying to disingeneously find away to under value and convince themselves they are valuing it fairly because the daft tool or the revenue tool says so.

People know what their property is worth and they should value it accordingly. Coming up with crappy little reasons to drop it a band where not genuine is noting short of stupidity of the highest degree and anybody that does deserves everytying they get

Disclaimer Im not referring to any specific poster on here but just people in general.

Wise Old Elf

D3PO wrote: »

True there is more to consider aswell. All Im saying is that many people are trying to convince themselves that their hosue is worth less now to save a few quid but if they are honest they know its not the case.

Take the semi D terraced house thread. The OP, they know what their house is and what its worth yet they are trying to disingeneously find away to under value and convince themselves they are valuing it fairly because the daft tool or the revenue tool says so.

People know what their property is worth and they should value it accordingly. Coming up with crappy little reasons to drop it a band where not genuine is noting short of stupidity of the highest degree and anybody that does deserves everytying they get

Disclaimer Im not referring to any specific poster on here but just people in general.

Wow, can of worms .
Both the €191k and the €212k houses were sold in 2012, and same types of house (also same as mine). Haven't investigated the reason for the price difference yet.
Wasn't trying to wrangle out of higher payment, just interested in what folk would do. I see both sides of the discussion, however, given that the more recent house was well below €200, I don't think it's a non-genuine reason for valuing at that level, and I am well aware that the consequences are all mine!
Interesting discussion though.

dori_dormer

Online Map valued my apartment in Band 2 100k - 150k. I was happy enough with that.
Letter arrived saying Band 3 - if i actually got that for selling it Id be ecstatic!

Daft value it at very low in band 2. Another apartment sold last year at that price, but it was a complete dump. According to Daft, if prices continue to fall I could be in Band 1 in 18 months or there abouts.

Think Ill stick with Band 2, their original guide.

Bullseye1

Disco Stuart wrote: »

Wow, can of worms .
Both the €191k and the €212k houses were sold in 2012, and same types of house (also same as mine). Haven't investigated the reason for the price difference yet.
Wasn't trying to wrangle out of higher payment, just interested in what folk would do. I see both sides of the discussion, however, given that the more recent house was well below €200, I don't think it's a non-genuine reason for valuing at that level, and I am well aware that the consequences are all mine!
Interesting discussion though.

Do you know what dates each house were sold? Have any sold in 2013?