How Argos can refuse any warranty within a year

chriss745

Let me share with you my story with Argos. It is unacceptable that in 2013 I cannot complain about a 7 days old product, because it is faulty.

My original letter to Argos:

"Dear Argos,

On 1st of March 2013 I bought a TPLINK TL-WA850RE 300Mbit wireless
repeater device (912/6253) in your Argos store in Mahon, Cork Ireland.
It is a computer wireless network device to extend an existing
wireless network in a home or small business. If someone has a primary
device, it picks up the signals and repeats them a few meters away to
extend the range of the network. I tried to set up and use this
extender device over a week, but unfortunately without any success.
After I configured the device as it was written in the user manual, it
worked fine for 5-10 minutes, but after all of the devices on my
network started to drop the network connection. I tried with multiple
devices, tablets, laptops, smart TVs, the result was the same. I could
stabilize again my home network only with detaching the TL-WA850RE
device from the network.

I would like to beg your pardon in advance because the next part of my
letter will be a bit technically, but I am not able to explain my
problem without technical details. As I am an IT person, I
investigated the issue with my device. first of all I checked if there
is a newer firmware for that product on the vendor's website, there
isn't, the latest one was installed on the device. When I tested the
connection (pinged the default gateway), the connection worked
properly for 16 seconds, the connection was suddenly dropped (packet
lost), the network was unavailable for 10 seconds, it came back, I
could reach again my primary router for 20 seconds but after the
connection was dropped again and so on. From 100 ping packets 36 was
lost, that is only 64% network availability, very bad. I went deeper
into the technical details of the protocol IEEE 802.11n, and I found
that the conception of the product is wrong. My client devices always
try to connect to the strongest wireless signal, and due to the
interference from my neighborhood, it will be continuously changing on
the same channel. It uses the same SSID with multiple BSSID, it is not
complinet with the IEEE 802.11n wireless network standard.
In plain English, my client devices (computers/tablets) are
continuously measuring which wireless device (the primary router or
this extender) has the strongest signal. When the primary router has a
stronger signal, they will connect there, if the secondary (extender)
device has a stronger signal, they will connect there. If in every 10
seconds it is changing, they will continuously drop the network
connection to connect to the strongest signal. That continuously
connect and disconnect is causing my problem, because during this time
frame the network (Internet) is unavailable. Not I am the only one who
are facing with this issue, I found many complaints about this device
on internet:

"After several days of fruitless attempts to make it work (the plug
lit up but I couldn't get an IP address through it, or if I got an IP
address the gateway didn't work), I changed my home hub to work at
40mhz and it started to work - for an hour! Connections would be
dropped suddenly, even though the strength of the reception appeared
to be very good."

"Once I had done this I then placed it mid way between my router and
the area in question and it did work, most of the time, the problem
seems to be that on occasions that the signal drops for no apparent
reason and then reconnects, sometimes it requires a reboot."

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B00AHXXJVW/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm/278-4166784-4672100?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

In general the solution is very easy, I would need to change the
"extender" network name to a different one, but here is the problem,
unfortunately that TPLINK TL-WA850RE device does not support this
feature from it's software. As you can see I tried everything, but it
is not working, I can't do anything with that, it is not my fault, it
is a combination of a improperly designed technology (device) and my
location. I reset the device to factory defaults and placed it back to
the original package. I went back to your store in Mahon where my real
story begins...

I went into your store in Cork, Mahon around 10:30am on 9th of March
to ask for a replacement. I went to the customer desk and explained my
problem. I told to the lady there that I have a technical issue with
that product, but not that exact device is wrong, that technology is
not working for me and I would like to replace it to a different
device. I told her that I know that device is exempt from the 30 days
money back guarantee, but my problem is not with the "color" of the
device, that device is not working at all in my home. I told her also
that this is why I do not ask for refund, I would like to replace it
with a different device or I would like to buy something else on its
price right here, right now. She told me she has to talk with her
store manager, and she went away for 2 minutes.

She came back but she told me that on device there is no warranty, it
is on the receipt. I wanted to tell her that as I know it is about the
money back guarantee and in practice my problem is a fault, but she
didn't listen to me, she said she cannot help me. I told her again
that my device is not working, and I am not going anywhere, I have the
right for a replacement if my device is faulty. She called her manager
on phone and the store manager came out from the office. I started to
gently tell to the manager that what is my problem but she didn't want
to hear me, she said she doesn't care, there is no warranty on this
product. I told her that Argos cannot sell any product in Ireland or
in the UK without warranty, it is against the law, this product is
exempt from the 30 days money back guarantee, but I don't want to get
back my money, I would like to ask for a voucher to be able to buy a
different product because that one is faulty. I told her not that
exact device is faulty, the technology has a problem in my location.
She said she will try the device if it is working. I was wondering
how, but I said to her, sure, if you can start it up it I can
demonstrate what is my issue. She went back to her office, and came
back to me in 3 minutes and she said she tested the device and it is
working fine. It was obviously not true because it is impossible to
configure the device in 3 minutes, but I stayed a gentleman and told
her, no problem can I connect my phone to the device to show what is
the problem or if she could give me the ipad where she tried out from
I could show her what is my concern. She became very angry and told me
again that no, she can't, she won't replace the product because there
is no warranty on that device, it is on the receipt. I told her again
that in my opinion that means I cannot get back money but I should be
able to buy an another product on the price of that. She said OK, she
will replace it to the same type of the device. I told her still
gently that this replacement won't help me, and most likely I have to
come back again because the problem is not with that exact box, rather
with the technology. She was already very frustrated in that time, she
wasn't really customer friendly, actually everyone in the store was
looking at me, it was very unpleasant. I was with my wife and with our
two children.
So back to the story, she said she cannot take the device back because
it is already used. I told her "look on the boxing, looks like brand
new, you can sell it for sure, the packaging is as it was originally,
and I set back the software to factory defaults". She wasn't arguing
with the packaging (obviously she couldn't, it is only a paper box
with a single device inside with a single manual book), but she said
the software is not original, because she checked that in the back of
the store (in three minutes?) and it is not on the factory defaults. I
told her I am working in IT since 15 years, unless she has the same
experience we shouldn't go into deep technical details, but if she
prefers that option, I can show her how I set it back to factory
defaults. For that time she became very aggressive, she was boiling. I
told her that if she already said she will replace it for me to the
same type of device, why she cannot give me a voucher, what is the
difference? From her point of view it doesn't matter, she already
accepted the return of my faulty device.
Then something unexpected happened, she said "GET OUT OF MY STORE!". I
asked her sorry, why, what is your problem? She cried loudly that she
doesn't care, "GET OUT OF MY STORE!". I was shocked with my wife and
my children, and as I saw everybody were shocked in the store, too. I
told her to please relax, I just have a problem, I have a faulty
device and I am looking for a solution. She didn't want to hear my
words anymore, she was continuously crying that "OUT OF MY STORE OR I
CALL THE POLICE". I told her that no problem, let's do that, based on
the law I have the right to ask a replacement of a faulty product, the
police will tell you the law if you wouldn't know the corresponding
paragraph. Then she said to one of her colleague that "CALL THE
SECURITY, LET'S DROP THEM OUT".

What?! A customer in suit with a lady with two children and she wants
us drop out with security because I was complaining about a faulty
product? You know, I would expect much more from a store manager! How
she dares that?! How Argos can work with this kind of quality of human
resource? Sorry, but I could not leave this situation without a
complain letter about her. This kind of behavior with a customer is
totally unacceptable, especially in front of all the customers!

So when she said "CALL THE SECURITY" a younger assistant man came
there and asked what is the problem, I told him that I have a faulty
product and I am looking for a replacement. He told me he will replace
it to the same device, I didn't want to spend more time on that, my
children were already scared, and I accepted the offer and left the
store as quick as possible. Actually I wanted to spend additional 75
EUR in the same day in the store, but after that affair I changed my
mind... My children, my wife and myself were totally shocked.

Two hours later we calmed down and decided to go to an another Argos
store (Cork Blackpool), and try to talk with someone else there. There
the lady was very kind and gently, I told her my story. She was
completely surprised how the store manager in Mahon could behave like
that, but she said she already heard about my story because the store
manager in Mahon called all the Argos in Cork to do not take back this
unboxed TP-LINK device from me... What? Why?

So, now I have an unboxed, untouched TL-WA850RE device on my desk, and
I cannot do anything with that. I would like to ask your help what to
do now, because I don't want to open it, because it won't work for
sure, and I cannot go back to any Argos store for a replacement
because they do not take it back. I would like to highlight it again,
it is untouched at the moment, the external plastic wrapping with the
Argos number is still on that. If they gave it back to me, why I
couldn't choose a different type of wireless extender device where I
can change the name of the network? Actually I have already solved my
issue with a different device where I could change the network name
to an another one, since my extended network is working fine, I don't
have any network issue at all. The problem was only the software in
device TL-WA850RE, and obviously it is not my fault.

I really trust your fairness and I would like to ask you to take back
that device from me and let me buy something else on the price of that
TP-LINK TL-WA850RE device. Please see my scanned receipts attached.
"

And their answer:

"Subject: Reference 14201217.

Thank you for your email regarding TPLINK TL-WA850RE 300Mbit wireless
repeater device.

I am sorry to read the above item is not suitable.

I have spoken to our Cork Mahon store regarding to the incident that happened in store on Saturday 9th March 2013.

Our store refused to refund or exchange the item with a different model as there was no fault found, and the item is exempt from our 30 day money back gaurantee. You advised our store that the item was not compatible but was working on other devices. Our store looked into this further for you and no fault was found. We can not resell the item even if you restore it to the factory settings as we know the item had been used and is classed as second hand goods. Our store asked you to leave the store as the query was not being resolved so we offered you a replacment for the same model. We would not be able refund the item because of this reason and our store informed other stores that no fault was found.

If you are not happy with this decision you will need to obtain your own independent report to confirm the item has developed a manufactures fault on your device you are using it for.

Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us at order.enquiries@argos.co.uk or call us on 0845 640 2020.

Regards,


Yvette Wood
Argos Direct E-Commerce Customer Service Team."

So if you buy an item in Argos, and it is not behaving as you expected and written on the box, - in my case it is not working at all -, it is your fault, Argos says go to hell!

I recommend you to avoid Argos stores at all time, their customer service sank under a level where it really worth to avoid them.

Chris

Nody

Sorry but you even state it yourself:

I would need to change the
"extender" network name to a different one, but here is the problem,
unfortunately that TPLINK TL-WA850RE device does not support this
feature from it's software. As you can see I tried everything, but it
is not working, I can't do anything with that, it is not my fault, it
is a combination of a improperly designed technology (device) and my
location.

None of which gives you a right to exchange it for a different device under any law or policy of Argos. It is not working in your specific set of circumstances but that does not mean the device is not working and short of you specifying in advance to Argos your requirements your case ends up as a change of mind basically.

chriss745

Nody wrote: »

Sorry but you even state it yourself:
None of which gives you a right to exchange it for a different device under any law or policy of Argos. It is not working in your specific set of circumstances but that does not mean the device is not working and short of you specifying in advance to Argos your requirements your case ends up as a change of mind basically.

No, that is incorrect. The device is not compatible with the IEEE 802.11n wireless standard, two BSSID under the same SSID is against the specification. I can see the issue more often due to my circumstances, but everyone who buy this device is facing with this issue, maximum not so often and they cannot realize that.

The device has 64% network availability. If you would have a TV which would not work on Saturdays and Sundays, would you complain or not?

GarIT

chriss745 wrote: »

No, that is incorrect. The device is not compatible with the IEEE 802.11n wireless standard, two BSSID under the same SSID is against the specification. I can see the issue more often due to my circumstances, but everyone who buy this device is facing with this issue, maximum not so often and they cannot realize that.

The device has 64% network availability. If you would have a TV which would not work on Saturdays and Sundays, would you complain or not?

Unless they told you that it is compatible with IEEE 802.1n then it is your fault and not theirs.

chriss745

With other words, I bough a product in Argos, I connected to the power, configured as it is written in the manual, it is working for only 5 minutes and it dies, and is it my fault? It is obviously the manufacture's fault but do I have to pay that price?

I believe Argos should collect back the devices and start a discussion with the manufacturer instead of doing nothing. That "go to hell because it is working" policy is unacceptable, they neither allowed me to demo them what is my issue. Based on what they say it is working? Did they connected to the power and it had the lights on?

chriss745

GarIT wrote: »

Unless they told you that it is compatible with IEEE 802.1n then it is your fault and not theirs.

It is written on the box and on the manufacturer's website, too!!!

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?categoryid=1247&model=TL-WA850RE#spec

"Wireless Standards: IEEE 802.11n, IEEE 802.11g, IEEE 802.11b"

Paulw

Your options -

#1 - accept the situation and move on.
#2 - Contact the item manufacturer support and see if they can help resolve your problem.
#3 - Small claims court against Argos.

GarIT

chriss745 wrote: »

With other words, I bough a product in Argos, I connected to the power, configured as it is written in the manual, it is working for only 5 minutes and it dies, and is it my fault? It is obviously the manufacture's fault but do I have to pay that price?

I believe Argos should collect back the devices and start a discussion with the manufacturer instead of doing nothing. That "go to hell because it is working" policy is unacceptable, they neither allowed me to demo them what is my issue. Based on what they say it is working? Did they connected to the power and it had the lights on?

If the device does what it is advertised to do there is no problem. If the device is advertised to work with IEEE 802.1n then you have a case. If it wasn't advertised like that then it is your fault for choosing the wrong device.

GarIT

chriss745 wrote: »

It is written on the box and on the manufacturer's website, too!!!

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?categoryid=1247&model=TL-WA850RE#spec

"Wireless Standards: IEEE 802.11n, IEEE 802.11g, IEEE 802.11b"

Check the catalogue, if it's in there you can tell them the item is not as described and ask for a refund.

whippet

chriss745 wrote: »

With other words, I bough a product in Argos, I connected to the power, configured as it is written in the manual, it is working for only 5 minutes and it dies, and is it my fault? It is obviously the manufacture's fault but do I have to pay that price?

I believe Argos should collect back the devices and start a discussion with the manufacturer instead of doing nothing. That "go to hell because it is working" policy is unacceptable, they neither allowed me to demo them what is my issue. Based on what they say it is working? Did they connected to the power and it had the lights on?

This isn't a faulty product, it is just a product that isn't suitable for you. Unless you specified what you wanted and they advised you to buy it you don't have a leg to stand on.

Secondly, this has nothing what so ever to do with warranty, it isn't faulty. This is a case of 'change of mind' and in cases of change of mind the retailer has the option to entertain your demands or refuse them.

Thirdly, by your own admission you are an 'it expert' ; therefore it would be reasonable to assume that you would have researched the product before purchasing.

Also; the crux of your gripe / argument is - So if you buy an item in Argos, and it is not behaving as you expected

Your expectations were and are set by yourself not Argos .. therefore you are at fault.

ahnowbrowncow

Are you going to get that mountain of text published?

chriss745

GarIT wrote: »

Check the catalogue, if it's in there you can tell them the item is not as described and ask for a refund.

I did exactly the same in the store. They connected it to the power, the lights went on, they state now it is working. When I offered to demonstrate the issue, they refused it.

BostonB

whippet wrote: »

This isn't a faulty product, it is just a product that isn't suitable for you. ....

Who is suitable for, if it doesn't do what it says on the box?

chriss745

Paulw wrote: »

Your options -

#1 - accept the situation and move on.
#2 - Contact the item manufacturer support and see if they can help resolve your problem.
#3 - Small claims court against Argos.

You know, I don't care about that anymore, I already stressed myself enough. I just wanted to tell everyone, how Argos has changed in the recent years, and if you don't want the same pain for yourself, avoid them if it is possible.

Paulw

chriss745 wrote: »

You know, I don't care about that anymore, I already stressed myself enough. I just wanted to tell everyone, how Argos has changed in the recent years, and if you don't want the same pain for yourself, avoid them if it is possible.

I have no problem buying with Argos, but I always make sure I do my own research before I buy anything.

foggy_lad

Op you should send an email to Argos and don't go into any detail like you do in your original post here or they may ignore it, they are shop employees not IT personnel.

Tell them that under the Sale of Goods Act the item is not fit for purpose and is not compatible with the IEEE 802.1n standard even though this is stated on the box. explain that you would have accepted a gift card to allow you buy a different product but after your treatment in the store you will accept nothing less than a refund as you have no confidence in Argos being able to look after you in regards to your statutory rights!

I have highlighted the important parts. there is no warranty issue because you are looking for redress provided by your statutory rights(something which many retailers would prefer consumers didn't have).

chriss745

foggy_lad wrote: »

Op you should send an email to Argos and don't go into any detail like you do in your original post here or they may ignore it, they are shop employees not IT personnel.

Tell them that under the Sale of Goods Act the item is not fit for purpose and is not compatible with the IEEE 802.1n standard even though this is stated on the box. explain that you would have accepted a gift card to allow you buy a different product but after your treatment in the store you will accept nothing less than a refund as you have no confidence in Argos being able to look after you in regards to your statutory rights!

I have highlighted the important parts. there is no warranty issue because you are looking for redress provided by your statutory rights(something which many retailers would prefer consumers didn't have).

Thanks for the advice, I will follow it!

chriss745

Paulw wrote: »

I have no problem buying with Argos, but I always make sure I do my own research before I buy anything.

Mee too, but it is a software issue, and I could not see that in advance until I did not buy the product and tried out myself. This is why they should have a time period when they accept a replacement (I never asked for a refund), a customer cannot see these kind of issues in advance.

It is the same as a 3G dongle, you don't know if it will work until you don't try it after you bought it. If it is not working, you can go back and say, hey although XYZ provider says there is indoor coverage in my area, there isn't. They don't connect the 3G dongle there in their shop, and they say, hey, it is working here, "GET OUT OF MY STORE".

whippet

chriss745 wrote: »

Mee too, but it is a software issue, and I could not see that in advance until I did not buy the product and tried out myself. This is why they should have a time period when they accept a replacement (I never asked for a refund), a customer cannot see these kind of issues in advance.

It is the same as a 3G dongle, you don't know if it will work until you don't try it after you bought it. If it is not working, you can go back and say, hey although XYZ provider says there is indoor coverage in my area, there isn't. They don't connect the 3G dongle there in their shop, and they say, hey, it is working here, "GET OUT OF MY STORE".

your comparing apples with oranges here. A mobile provider provides a service which is dependent on certain conditions.

Argos supply items from a catalogue.

Unfortunately unless you can prove that the item is a) Faulty or b) does not do what it says it will do; you have no comeback.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

thenightrider

I did not read all of your post so sorry if you have all ready said you have tried this. Change the wireless Chanel there should be 13 different wireless Channels and see how you get on.

dolallyoh

Bring back to another store, just say its dead and ask for a straight swap. They will give you a new one in a box. Return this one and ask for a refund or ebay it.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

foggy_lad

whippet wrote: »

Unfortunately unless you can prove that the item is a) Faulty or b) does not do what it says it will do; you have no comeback.

The only thing required is the claim that the item does not work as described or that it is not fit for its stated purpose. It is then up to the retailer to examine or have the product checked out by the manufacturer and if found to be working perfectly they return to the consumer with their findings.

Argos doing their in-store testing of products is just another way they water down and try to deny consumers their statutory rights! Afaik no argos staff are employed as testers and there is no evidence or statements that any of their staff are suitably qualified to test any product especially electrical products! There are obvious safety concerns with management stating that they will test electrical items in store.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Worth a shot at bringing this to small claims court, the registrar there may try to resolve the issue by contacting Argos, who may want to avoid the hassle of court and give you what you want. But if this went to court, I doubt you would win. My opinion.

foggy_lad

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Worth a shot at bringing this to small claims court, the registrar there may try to resolve the issue by contacting Argos, who may want to avoid the hassle of court and give you what you want. But if this went to court, I doubt you would win. My opinion.

Why doubt it? the op bought an item which does not do what it is supposed to do, they went back to the retailer who told them there was no warranty on the product and they would provide no after sales care despite their obligations under the Sale Of Goods Act.

Solair

I think you'd be better off going in and saying:

"This yoke I bought doesn't work"
"I followed all the instructions and it still doesn't work"

You've given them WAY too much info! Argos is a warehouse operation that sells stuff in boxes. It has very limited IT knowledge.

Chazz Michael Michaels

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why doubt it? the op bought an item which does not do what it is supposed to do, they went back to the retailer who told them there was no warranty on the product and they would provide no after sales care despite their obligations under the Sale Of Goods Act.

Well, warranties have nothing to do with your statutory rights, so we may as well forget what that says for now. I may have misread the wall of text at the start, but am I right in understanding that the product was sold stating clearly what it can do on the box? Were any assumptions made on the consumers part, such as assuming specifications that it didn't state on the box?

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

whippet

foggy_lad wrote: »

The only thing required is the claim that the item does not work as described or that it is not fit for its stated purpose. It is then up to the retailer to examine or have the product checked out by the manufacturer and if found to be working perfectly they return to the consumer with their findings.

Argos doing their in-store testing of products is just another way they water down and try to deny consumers their statutory rights! Afaik no argos staff are employed as testers and there is no evidence or statements that any of their staff are suitably qualified to test any product especially electrical products! There are obvious safety concerns with management stating that they will test electrical items in store.

I'm not too sure what you are trying to say here, are you saying that a retailer isn't entitled to check that a product is faulty before offering one of the three R's? They are entitled to, and obviously a catalogue retailer will not have sutaitabily qualified engineers on hand to check the item (and no one would expect them to have); therefore as a reasonable person I would expect them to ask the manufacture of the product for advice as to the condition of the unit.

They can send it back to the manufacture for testing and offer one of the 3 R's based on the findings or should the customer have some form of communication from the manufacture saying that there is a problem they can make their offer of resolution based on that.

The OP would be best placed to contact the manufacture's tech support and attempt to have the issue resolved. Fingers crossed it might work, but if the unit will not do what it is supposed to do then he will have a Call ID / email from TP-Link etc .. to show Argos that there is a problem / fault with the box and thus have a positive solution to the problem.

Trying to argue the toss on a technical issue with a mass shipping, catalogue-based high street retailer like argos who retail everything from garden chairs to WiFi equipment is just plain stupid.

Anyone who works in the IT industry knows that when there is a technical problem the best place to go for support is the manufacture and then should the issue still not be resolved go back to the seller with the support call number / authorisation for return / authorisation for repair.

The fact that the OP has confused the notion of 'warranty' with returning a product shows that the OP isn't too familiar with what they are entitled to and the best way of handling it.

Tails142

Solair wrote: »

I think you'd be better off going in and saying:

"This yoke I bought doesn't work"
"I followed all the instructions and it still doesn't work"

You've given them WAY too much info! Argos is a warehouse operation that sells stuff in boxes. It has very limited IT knowledge.

Yeah this ^

What is up with their returns policy these days anyway, I remember you used to be able to bring anything back. I once returned a hifi after 5 days and as long as all the packaging was there they were happy.

I know there was a bit of a scandal a few years back with people buying cameras which had been returned and had innapropriate photos on the internal memory. Is this what has changed the policy?

I bought a DVD player from them yesterday and they told me I couldn't return it, but why, it was just a basic €45 DVD player, no internal memory or anything - does the distance selling law need an update to cover electronic goods?