Exorcism Criteria

StevieNicksFan

I don't know if there are any exorcism experts on this board, however I was just wondering what 'criteria' would a person have to meet before an exorcism is granted? When/how would a mental illness be struck out as the definative cause?

There is always an element of possibility when the topic of exorcism comes up - i.e that it may be some external influence involved, but it's always one of those areas that generates a lot of conversation.Just generally interested in this area so I would love to hear some insights about the guidelines.

lisatiffany

Are you looking on behalf of someone possibly suffering from Demonic possession / influence or just curiosity? most of the time if its the catholic church you want to go through it can take a lot to validate if its a genuine case and even then they are very wary about sending someone out to perform an exorcism because of so many turning out to be cases of mental illness. My friend worked a lot with exorcists and genuine cases for over two years so I'll get some info out of him the next time we are talking and see what he says. There are about 20 to 30 cases in Ireland every year that the church deal with, most you will never hear of because there is actually a lot of stigma attached to it and it changes a lot of people. In one Irish case that comes to mind the person suffering from the possession was taken straight to hospital for brain scans and no abnormalities were found so naturally the doctors were baffled, and before the church set out to even consider authorizing an exorcism in Ireland they do look for scans and similar tests. I've been around people with genuine mental illnesses and then around people have have been under demonic influence and it's evident very quickly if it's a latter, schizophrenia shows it's signs through many specific tests but when those same tests throw up a blank for a person and you just know there is something else causing them to act out it's a very sobering experience. I'm not even religious but I know when I'm in the presence of something you could call pure evil, and even if they don't lash out constantly the threat to family and friends is very serious, especially close family. Some cases of possession will even go on for years, mainly because some people become so accustomed to it and refuse to have it leave, in many ways it warps the person.

In my own experience with Irish cases half the the time it happens because of a gradual breakdown in a persons spiritual defense and eventually something unclean forces its way into their life, the rest of the time its improper operation of devices like the ouija board opening doors that entities will gladly come through and then once you try to move them on they show their true colours and that's when possession becomes a genuine risk. What tends to happen is if they do come into you're life for whatever reason they concentrate on promoting negative energy and emotions which they can in turn feed off of, they don't get a lot out of full blown possession because its more beneficial for them to just drain the energy from a source that can go about it's daily life and the opportunity for getting more out of them is a lot higher.

Off the top of my head I'd say check out The Dark Sacrament, the author is a good friend of mine and he spent a long time researching each case and Exorcism itself before setting out to write the book. I'm good with most things that go bump in the night even demonics but the cases he chose to feature are fairly frightening and because of the content a lot of shops won't even stock the book. It's the most concise reference of Exorcism in Ireland that you will find without putting in a lot of work trying to track down the people involved themselves. It's very similar with severely haunted properties in Ireland, even when the housing market was booming they couldn't shift them because word got out about what was happening in them. In the UK now you have to disclose if a property has had any reported activity if you want to sell it. I personally think that activity is rising because the veil between our world and the next has been thinning out over the the years and now its at a point where we are so close that a lot of entities and energies are passing through with ease, it could be something as simple as a rise in people becoming more spiritually awakened.

What I tend to find with people in Ireland and UK who have had some kind of demonic attack or possession is that tools like the ouija are to blame. I don't even think it's a bad tool but any tool operated by someone uneducated in it's use can cause trouble. What seems to be happening is people are using boards or conducting seances and because they are not versed in how to do it properly they pick up whatever is close by, given that demonics are so uninvolved spiritually they are the closet thing to this dimension and easy to contact, they are experts at twisting the truth and saying the right thing so many times a bond is formed and when the person gets wise to what they are really communicating with all hell breaks lose. That's generally the main cause of possession in this part of the world though the church will chalk it down to even the likes of the Tarot which is entirely harmless. Many people who study the field will also say alcoholism and drug use can lead to it, basically it wears down you're defenses to a point where a demonic will latch onto you're aura if they break through.

Another more recent cause has been people in hospitals having their bodies inhabited by lost of confused spirits in the ether who have passed there and for whatever reason not moved on. It's happened so many times that there are therapists in the US dealing with those kind of cleansing's specifically, there is still a possession though not always malevolent. I study parapsychology and Exorcism and Demonology has always been something I've spent a lot of time on, the numbers are definitely there to suggest that it's still happening to a lot of people of all ages from all walks of life, and I'm not even religious so I won't go and say that's what happens if you don't live you're life the way god wanted you to. It can pretty much happen to anyone though the ones who treat the other side with disrespect usually end up on the wrong side of it most times, they go tapping into something completely unknown to them and then assume they can control what's on the other end. Anyways I hope some of that is helpful, another book worth looking into would be Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin, fantastic book and his own death was very suspicious. In general a lot of the books concerning Exorcism are just aimed at turning people to gods way but the two I mentioned tell it a lot more rawer and are a lot less preachy.

xzanti

^ Well, that's me not sleeping tonight.

BillyMitchel

Bro that post completely creeped me out. No idea why I keep coming here!

The book you mentioned about the exorcisms in Ireland. Your friend is the author. Where can I get a copy?

Ziycon

I know this might be slightly off topic but I've always wondered with possessions, it it not entirely possible that doctors can't find anything wrong due to the fact that the condition can't be diagnosed with medicine as it is today, the techniques and science just aren't there yet to diagnose this purely medical phenomena!?

Urizen

Ziycon wrote: »

I know this might be slightly off topic but I've always wondered with possessions, it it not entirely possible that doctors can't find anything wrong due to the fact that the condition can't be diagnosed with medicine as it is today, the techniques and science just aren't there yet to diagnose this purely medical phenomena!?

I'm in this camp myself; pretty sure it's some kind of psychosis. That said, I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of paranormal phenomenon will be answered by science eventually. Which is why mainstream scientists should stop dismissing them offhand, and these 'possessions' should be looked at more closely by someone with actual training.

lisatiffany

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Bro that post completely creeped me out. No idea why I keep coming here!

The book you mentioned about the exorcisms in Ireland. Your friend is the author. Where can I get a copy?

Been away for the last while. There are two versions at the moment, the Irish version and an updated copy available stateside with I think three more cases. It's on amazon and from time it pops up in chapters on parnell street. His wife also writes too, she did a good book a while back called Ireland's Haunted Women.

Gumbi

Urizen wrote: »

I'm in this camp myself; pretty sure it's some kind of psychosis. That said, I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of paranormal phenomenon will be answered by science eventually. Which is why mainstream scientists should stop dismissing them offhand, and these 'possessions' should be looked at more closely by someone with actual training.

What is dismissed is the claim of "magic" (what else can you call it?).

Urizen

Gumbi wrote: »

What is dismissed is the claim of "magic" (what else can you call it?).

You misunderstand me; I don't believe in magic. What I mean is that legitimate science refuses to properly investigate these phenomenon, or even give them the time of day, and they should be studied.

Modern science is far too dogmatic on what we say is and isn't. We should open our minds to the (extremely likely) possibility that even though we can't prove or disprove things with current equipment and methods, this doesn't mean we won't be able to in the future. Many forms of what was once called 'magic' can now be explained by science (fire, electricity, etc.), and I see no reason why that trend won't continue. Scientific knowledge, by its very nature, is mutable, and we'd all do well to remember that.

In the context of this thread, it's all well and good to say someone's posessed and hand them to an exorcist. But it'd be much better if we got some doctors in on that to possibly diagnose a mental illness hitherto unrecognised, because of the scorn of things considered 'impossible'.

I'm not sure how well I explained that (come on, it's 3am), but hopefully you get the idea.

conor2469

Hey lisatiffany, very interesting post. I have looked up the books you mentioned. It is an area I always found fascinating. you say you have been around people that you regard as being genuinely possessed. Would you be able to recount any of your more memorable experiences? I'd love to read them.

Gumbi

Urizen wrote: »

You misunderstand me; I don't believe in magic. What I mean is that legitimate science refuses to properly investigate these phenomenon, or even give them the time of day, and they should be studied.

Modern science is far too dogmatic on what we say is and isn't. We should open our minds to the (extremely likely) possibility that even though we can't prove or disprove things with current equipment and methods, this doesn't mean we won't be able to in the future. Many forms of what was once called 'magic' can now be explained by science (fire, electricity, etc.), and I see no reason why that trend won't continue. Scientific knowledge, by its very nature, is mutable, and we'd all do well to remember that.

In the context of this thread, it's all well and good to say someone's posessed and hand them to an exorcist. But it'd be much better if we got some doctors in on that to possibly diagnose a mental illness hitherto unrecognised, because of the scorn of things considered 'impossible'.

I'm not sure how well I explained that (come on, it's 3am), but hopefully you get the idea.

It has been investigated.

I got to speak with one of the priests that has preformed exorcisms within Ireland, he now is in my local parish. Im not going to name any names but to say i was disappointed was an understatement. He pretty much told me that he no longer does it as it wasnt good for business and doesnt want to be associated. In the past he was able to build up a following but that quickly dwindled. He now has a new business venture so he doesnt want to be associated with anything paranormal as that might ruin this opportunity. :eek:

A priest doesnt want to be associated with anything paranormal. Makes me wonder has he read the bible.

I have been witness to paranormal events. But in no way can i say they were done by the ghost of a dead person, let alone a "Demon"

Demon is thrown around very loosely. This house was haunted by a demon of pure evil. WOW what did he do ? He moved this coffee mug, and makes alot of noise :cool:

Urizen

Gumbi wrote: »

It has been investigated.

Well in that case, could you link to some papers on the subject? They'd be much appreciated.

Gumbi

Urizen wrote: »

Well in that case, could you link to some papers on the subject? They'd be much appreciated.

About what specifically? Exorcisms?

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

A priest doesnt want to be associated with anything paranormal. Makes me wonder has he read the bible.

I take he didn't bother with a vow of poverty either, given his new buisness venture :P

Joking aside, Exorcisms are either sanctioned by the church or not. A priest shouldn't be able to decide they are 'bad for business', it should be either required or not from his point of view.

Urizen

Gumbi wrote: »

About what specifically? Exorcisms?

Scientific and/or medical studies on possession and exorcism, yes.

100200 shih

lisatiffany wrote: »

Been away for the last while. There are two versions at the moment, the Irish version and an updated copy available stateside with I think three more cases. It's on amazon and from time it pops up in chapters on parnell street. His wife also writes too, she did a good book a while back called Ireland's Haunted Women.

Must say thank you for recommending the book , I am half way through it & its scared the crap out of me, never has a book done this, but I cant leave the book down. When i went to bed last night , I jump from the door to my bed. I taught I would never be scared of these kind of thing but I was wrong. I had to buy the book on amazon USA , Got it for €6.

StevieNicksFan

100200 shih wrote: »

Must say thank you for recommending the book , I am half way through it & its scared the crap out of me, never has a book done this, but I cant leave the book down. When i went to bed last night , I jump from the door to my bed. I taught I would never be scared of these kind of thing but I was wrong. I had to buy the book on amazon USA , Got it for €6.

Just received this book from Amazon myself. Going to start reading it tonight! By all accounts, it seems to be very insightful and will hopefully give me a deeper understanding of what is involved.