F.C. Barcelona vs A.C. Milan CL last 16 2nd leg Match Thread

ironingbored

Seaneh wrote: »

I don't support a club who claim to be the embodiment of etnhic struggle against a totalitarian dictatorship while at the same time using hundreds of millions of euros to keep themselves afloat and finance their insane spending which is coming, funnily enough, from a totalitarian dictatorship...

I know exactly where Milan's money from the last 30 years has come from, and it wasn't from a totalitarian Islamist dictatorship who's horrendous human rights record, stance of womens and homosexual rights and miss-treatment of religious minorities are all well known historical fact.

Oh, and by the way, I think if you do a bit of research on me you'll know I'm not exactly a fan of Berlu, politically or as president of Milan.

I'm gobsmacked! :eek: You have managed to work out what a financial expert from the Bank of Italy (Francesco Giuffrida) was unable to when a report was commissioned by the DIA (Anti-Mafia Investigative Unit) and the Bank of Italy in the 1990's into the origins of Berlusconi's fortune.

LuckyLloyd

ironingbored wrote: »

I'm gobsmacked! :eek: You have managed to work out what a financial expert from the Bank of Italy (Francesco Giuffrida) was unable to when a report was commissioned by the DIA (Anti-Mafia Investigative Unit) and the Bank of Italy in the 1990's into the origins of Berlusconi's fortune.

A Barca fan throwing aspersions at where other clubs get their money is pretty ****ing funny. Their current shirt sponsorship deal is a stain on sport.

Tox56

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, three Champions Leagues over the previous seven years puts them in the same conversation as the great teams, but it's not an unprecedented haul. People want to make out that they're the best ever, that they've changed the game forever but I don't think that's true. One of the great teams, but not any greater or less great than Milan in the early nineties or Liverpool in the late seventies or early eighties. It's hard to place ourselves in previous contexts, but those sides would have had the same level of lovers / haters it's just that football was less global and ubiquitous at those times.

In a couple of decades some other team will come along and be the best around for a few years and have their followers talking about them as the greatest ever and so on and so on.

That's pretty much what he said? They clearly are the best team of this generation

elefant

anyone else think that Villa playing through the middle was a big improvement for Barca last night? He didn't have his best game, but it meant Milan couldn't just clog things up in front of Messi and only have someone toothless like Alexis to worry about. Villa must be a nightmare for defenders with his constant movement, and it gives Messi that little extra time he needs to get shots off.

I hope Villa will be a fixture in the team again now, and not as a left winger either. Seems a criminal waste of talent for one of the best goal-scorers I've ever seen.

gimmick

dfx- wrote: »

Great win, an unexpected win. In the cold light of day, it might be a problem that Barcelona had to go back to Guardiola's tactics and lineup for the CL final (bar Alba) to get plan A working properly.

I don't see why any of this is a problem at all. I was delighted to see the constant harrying and harrassing which made this a great team. It was like Pep gave the team talk. Barca played to the strongest of their strengths last night and did an incredible job. If they can keep that bit between their teeth I would not bet against another CL victory this season.

I would also say that it may sharpen the ideas of a few others. I would imagine Fabregas was pretty disgusted to not be a part of the 14 last night. So that tells him he has to step up his game if he wants to be seen as part of the best 14.

SlickRic

brilliant win and performance.

2 things swung this.

1) Niang's miss.
2) Messi.

as dfx said, Ramires scored his chance last year, Niang missed his. they're the margins.

and RE: Messi...it's not a slight on Barca, but if Messi's not on the pitch, they don't win last night. for all the pressing and harrying, which was exemplary by the way, Messi's genius is what did it - particularly that 1st goal. it can't be underestimated how perfect that was, and how he's probably the only player who could have used that little space so quickly to put it so perfectly in the top corner.

Milan were a shambles in most senses. they didn't get close enough quick enough to players 20/25 yards from goal like they did a couple of weeks ago. and against Barca, that's all you need.

Xavi was excellent alright, but he had all the time in the world 30 yards from goal most of the time. Milan just were not at the races. and even so, they still could've easily gone through.

this was a brilliant performance by Barca, but not complete. i think there are too many deficiencies right now, particularly in defence. maybe Villanova will sort it when he's back in a month? will that be time enough? it probably depends on who they draw.

i reckon a motivated Madrid, Bayern, and maybe even Dortmund, could very easily do them.

but just to say, it's brilliant that there are so many genuine contenders for the Champions League this year, as well as a couple of really dangerous "outsiders". it's going to make for a fantastic last 8 and beyond.

ionadnapokot

Messi & Iniesta - Simply unplayable.
Ineista looking over his shoulder last night shielding the ball from the Milan player just made me smile:) (reminded me of the Irish lads in the euros trying to get the ball off him):(
Messi's goals had me out of my seat. So did Niang's 1 on 1. it would have been great to see what might had happened had he scored. (Pique is an excuse for a defender)
Funnily enough i still think Barca would have went through

gimmick

^ it was Mascheranos error which gave Niang his chance, not Pique.

Pique last night, imo, did not put a foot wrong.

ionadnapokot

(Pique is an excuse for a defender) i was just putting it out there as a general comment on his performance last night.
i thought he put allot of feet wrong last night!

Blatter

gimmick wrote: »

^ it was Mascheranos error which gave Niang his chance, not Pique.

Pique last night, imo, did not put a foot wrong.

Think he was beaten far too easily by SES on the left in the first half, other than that he was fine. Not like he had much to do though.

gimmick

ionadnapokot wrote: »

(Pique is an excuse for a defender) i was just putting it out there as a general comment on his performance last night.
i thought he put allot of feet wrong last night!

He tends to divide opinion alright. I think he is class. He is a better player with Puyol at his side though.

dfx-

gimmick wrote: »

I don't see why any of this is a problem at all. I was delighted to see the constant harrying and harrassing which made this a great team. It was like Pep gave the team talk. Barca played to the strongest of their strengths last night and did an incredible job. If they can keep that bit between their teeth I would not bet against another CL victory this season.

I would also say that it may sharpen the ideas of a few others. I would imagine Fabregas was pretty disgusted to not be a part of the 14 last night. So that tells him he has to step up his game if he wants to be seen as part of the best 14.

It's great that the team can still put in this type of performance and there's no-one that can live with it. Even the current Madrid team.

But it also shows that Guardiola's 343 and Vilanova's less aggressive style and the signings and youths introduced since can't yet be assimilated into that 11, bar Alba for Abidal.

SlickRic wrote: »

this was a brilliant performance by Barca, but not complete. i think there are too many deficiencies right now, particularly in defence. maybe Villanova will sort it when he's back in a month? will that be time enough? it probably depends on who they draw.

It was as complete as you could expect. Milan were always in the game simply because of the first leg scoreline. In this individual game and this individual performance, they were not in it, save for one chance. Every team gives up one chance.

I don't think even the current Madrid team could cope with Barcelona of last night...but Barcelona of this season, they could.

SlickRic

dfx- wrote: »

I don't think even the current Madrid team could cope with Barcelona of last night...but Barcelona of this season, they could.

i actually disagree, but there you go!

i think Ronaldo would potently exploit what Barca gave up last night.

they also gave up more than Milan took advantage of. you must remember Flamini and Ambrosini were turd, barely able to pass a ball 4 yards. yes, that's to do with the pressing, but Khedira and Alonso are different animals.

Barca also got more space 30 yards from goal than Madrid will give up.

Barca of last night, and Madrid at their best would be extremely even. Barca could well win, but I think at most given the scenario of both teams playing at their top level, in 10 games, I'd guess Barca win 4, Madrid 3, and there are 3 draws.

Madrid have the beating of them right now, and it's not all down to Barca not reaching the heights of last night.

one last thing, David Villa deserves a special word of praise. just superb last night, and good to see after an indifferent time with injuries and form.

ionadnapokot

There is no doubting his class on the ball. one of worlds best(cb) in that regard. Absolutely, pique - puyol are a much sounder partnership. puyol also can divide opinion! & i am probably on the other side (the bad side!). Of course he has very good abilities. but fundamentally he takes up poor positions for a cb. his greatest attribute is his ability to recover or get across to fill space. With his pace fading though he is starting to get exposed more.
Oh what a team wouldnt give for a Robert Ayala! good days:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHyy6QKjTXE

eagle eye

SlickRic wrote: »

i actually disagree, but there you go!

i think Ronaldo would potently exploit what Barca gave up last night.

they also gave up more than Milan took advantage of. you must remember Flamini and Ambrosini were turd, barely able to pass a ball 4 yards. yes, that's to do with the pressing, but Khedira and Alonso are different animals.

Barca also got more space 30 yards from goal than Madrid will give up.

Barca of last night, and Madrid at their best would be extremely even. Barca could well win, but I think at most given the scenario of both teams playing at their top level, in 10 games, I'd guess Barca win 4, Madrid 3, and there are 3 draws.

Madrid have the beating of them right now, and it's not all down to Barca not reaching the heights of last night.

one last thing, David Villa deserves a special word of praise. just superb last night, and good to see after an indifferent time with injuries and form.

Earlier in the season they had a cracking 2-2 draw and I think both teams are on a par right now.
Barca just had a bad couple of weeks shortly after Tito went to the US for treatment. I think they are coming around now and things are getting back to normal. I don't think any team could have taken them on last night.

gimmick

ionadnapokot wrote: »

There is no doubting his class on the ball. one of worlds best(cb) in that regard. Absolutely, pique - puyol are a much sounder partnership. puyol also can divide opinion! & i am probably on the other side (the bad side!). Of course he has very good abilities. but fundamentally he takes up poor positions for a cb. his greatest attribute is his ability to recover or get across to fill space. With his pace fading though he is starting to get exposed more.
Oh what a team wouldnt give for a Robert Ayala! good days:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHyy6QKjTXE

There are Gods who look down at Puyol with envy!!!

j4vier

barcellona really need to play in camp nou to show their best, its the width of the pitch that helps them to spread the game towards the wings and that's how they create spaces in the centre

milan had 2 clear chances that should have been handled better, niang's post and robinho's shot blocked by jordi alba on bojan's cross which could have sent them through despite a bad performance from them.

an experienced team like chelsea last year would have scored them, but milan's is full of youths with little international experience now and robinho hasn't played in months so it was to be expected. also the third goal of villa was a big mistake from constant who shouldnt have tried to anticipate him.

milan really needed a striker like pazzini up front last night who has been in great shape recently and could hold up the ball, either niang or boateng are not suitable for that job

maximoose

j4vier wrote: »

barcellona really need to play in camp nou to show their best, its the width of the pitch that helps them to spread the game towards the wings and that's how they create spaces in the centre

Camp Nou is no bigger than the San Siro.

(or any other major stadium for that matter)

SlickRic

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think any team could have taken them on last night.

fair enough.

i don't think it was that clear-cut, as good as they were, because i don't think other teams would have given that space, and i think other teams would've punished the mistakes they did make. because Barca push so high, when they give up a chance or 2, they're normally pretty good ones.

anyway, meh. we don't know. all we know is Barca were awesome, and I reckon the tournament needs an awesome Barca.

Blatter

Those who think Piqué is world class have their heads in the sand IMO. He is a big reason why Barca have a habit of giving up so many chances, whether it'll cost Barca the CL is another matter but he will continue to make mistakes along with the other Barca defenders and it's up to the opposition to be ruthless enough when they do.

j4vier

maximoose wrote: »

Camp Nou is no bigger than the San Siro.

(or any other major stadium for that matter)

i am pretty sure i heard some commentator stating that it was slightly wider but i cant find a trustworthy source online

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2012/04/23/3054356/champions-league-pitch-dimensions-are-merely-a-myth-but

to me it looks wider, although from 2008 they should be all the same

maximoose

According to Wiki, pitch dimensions:

Camp Nou:105 m × 68 m
San Siro: 105m x 68m
Old Trafford: 105 by 68 metres
Emirates: 105 × 68 metres
Juve Stadium: 105 x 68
Bernabau: 107 m × 72 m
Elland Road (:pac:): 105 m × 68 m

How trustworthy they all are, I don't know.

Rekop dog

SlickRic wrote: »

i actually disagree, but there you go!

i think Ronaldo would potently exploit what Barca gave up last night.

they also gave up more than Milan took advantage of. you must remember Flamini and Ambrosini were turd, barely able to pass a ball 4 yards. yes, that's to do with the pressing, but Khedira and Alonso are different animals.

Barca also got more space 30 yards from goal than Madrid will give up.

Barca of last night, and Madrid at their best would be extremely even. Barca could well win, but I think at most given the scenario of both teams playing at their top level, in 10 games, I'd guess Barca win 4, Madrid 3, and there are 3 draws.

Madrid have the beating of them right now, and it's not all down to Barca not reaching the heights of last night.

one last thing, David Villa deserves a special word of praise. just superb last night, and good to see after an indifferent time with injuries and form.

Ronaldo probably would have exploited them last night but under normal circumstances they wouldn't have been so gung ho so it's not really a relevant point. Barca have rolled Madrid over far more often than not over the last few years, went through an uncharacteristic blip last few weeks but it's pretty much an outlier in the sample.

Nobody lives with them when they're at their best.

kryogen

j4vier wrote: »

i am pretty sure i heard some commentator stating that it was slightly wider but i cant find a trustworthy source online

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2012/04/23/3054356/champions-league-pitch-dimensions-are-merely-a-myth-but

to me it looks wider, although from 2008 they should be all the same

Camera angles and design make it look bigger at times, but it really isnt.

The Bernabau for example is bigger, I know that, Barca's pitch is no bigger then most top teams tbh.

kryogen

Rekop dog wrote: »

Ronaldo probably would have exploited them last night but under normal circumstances they wouldn't have been so gung ho so it's not really a relevant point. Barca have rolled Madrid over far more often than not over the last few years, went through an uncharacteristic blip last few weeks but it's pretty much an outlier in the sample.

Nobody lives with them when they're at their best.

Last few weeks?

Since 2011, Clasico results

League:

Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona
Real Madrid 1-3 Barcelona
Barcelona 1-3 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-2 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 2-1 Barcelona

Copa del Rey

Real Madrid 1-0 Barcelona
Real Madrid 1-2 Barcelona
Barcelona 2-2 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona
Barcelona 1-3 Real Madrid

Not exactly domination the last couple of years in fairness

Looking them up reminded me of just how impressive Ronaldo's goal record is in these games!

Blatter

kryogen wrote: »

Last few weeks?

Since 2011, Clasico results

League:

Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona
Real Madrid 1-3 Barcelona
Barcelona 1-3 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-2 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 2-1 Barcelona

Copa del Rey

Real Madrid 1-0 Barcelona
Real Madrid 1-2 Barcelona
Barcelona 2-2 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona
Barcelona 1-3 Real Madrid

Not exactly domination the last couple of years in fairness

Looking them up reminded me of just how impressive Ronaldo's goal record is in these games!

Another 4 games from the Super Cup over the last 2 years:

Real Madrid 2-2 Barcelona
Barcelona 3-2 Real Madrid
Barcelona 3-2 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 2-1 Barcelona



So overall since 2011:

4 Barcelona wins
5 Real Madrid wins
5 draws

kryogen

Illustrates clearly enough that Madrid do fine v them head to head so!

Davaeo09

kryogen wrote: »

Illustrates clearly enough that Madrid do fine v them head to head so!

The only team that can pretty much stop them in CL now imo.

Also all this talk of Ronadlo would have taken the chances Barca gave up last night is just pathetic, what was he going to do, win the balll back, pass it, sprint to receive the pass, and score all on his own.
Talking about if's/but's etc is fun to do but I just want to say a massive HA to all the hate Barca have received on here over the last few weeks.

After a massively disappointing month or so this team showed huge character and put on performance to remember. Also becoming the first team to over turn a 2-0 deficit and go through to the last 8. 6 years on the trot for Barca now.

Also just to add to the discusiion , were as I do 100% agree Alonso and Khedira are great players, if Barca had of shown that sort of hunger and determination to win the ball back against Madrid I don't think they would have coped as comfortably as people have been implying.

dfx-

kryogen wrote: »

Illustrates clearly enough that Madrid do fine v them head to head so!

Well with reference to the point that what happens when Barcelona play like last night, the only recent game where Barcelona played like that was the Super Cup game at the start of the season.

Madrid were extremely fortunate to get out of that game one goal behind, thanks to a Valdes error. They were played off the pitch. And then won the Super Cup essentially on away goals.

Rekop dog

kryogen wrote: »

Last few weeks?

Since 2011, Clasico results

League:

Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona
Real Madrid 1-3 Barcelona
Barcelona 1-3 Real Madrid
Barcelona 2-2 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 2-1 Barcelona

Copa del Rey

Real Madrid 1-0 Barcelona
Real Madrid 1-2 Barcelona
Barcelona 2-2 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona
Barcelona 1-3 Real Madrid

Not exactly domination the last couple of years in fairness

Looking them up reminded me of just how impressive Ronaldo's goal record is in these games!

Lol at conveniently leaving out the most important tie of all, something tells me you would have included the champions league tie if Madrid won. Barca also won 6 of the last ten league matches only losing two of those. Fairly dominant in the important games in recent years.

Blatter

Rekop dog wrote: »

Lol at conveniently leaving out the most important tie of all, something tells me you would have included the champions league tie if Madrid won. Barca also won 6 of the last ten league matches only losing two of those. Fairly dominant in the important games in recent years.

Actually forgot about the CL games myself, that makes it

5 Barcelona wins
5 Real Madrid wins
6 draws


And using the fact Barcelona won 6 out of the last 10 league games is disingenuous to say the least. Going back 5 years when Mourinho wasn't even there and Madrid hadn't even nearly gelled as a team? Come on...Even in those 2011 CL games Madrid were still using Pepe in midfield, they have come on leaps and bounds since then.

Both teams at their best I'd give Barca a slight edge, that's it. They've struggled to ''roll'' Madrid over the past several meetings whatever the size of the game.

gimmick

Blatter wrote: »

Actually forgot about the CL games myself, that makes it

5 Barcelona wins
5 Real Madrid wins
6 draws


And using the fact Barcelona won 6 out of the last 10 league games is disingenuous to say the least. Going back 5 years when Mourinho wasn't even there and Madrid hadn't even nearly gelled as a team? Come on...Even in those 2011 CL games Madrid were still using Pepe in midfield, they have come on leaps and bounds since then.

Both teams at their best I'd give Barca a slight edge, that's it. They've struggled to ''roll'' Madrid over the past several meetings whatever the size of the game.

On the highlighted part. Pepe was deployed as a midfielder for that run of 4 clasicos in the space of 3 weeks. His position was still a centre back, but the tactic was to use him in midfield as a stopper/destroyer.

Davaeo09

gimmick wrote: »

On the highlighted part. Pepe was deployed as a midfielder for that run of 4 clasicos in the space of 3 weeks. His position was still a centre back, but the tactic was to use him in midfield as a stopper/destroyer.

Aye, Mou seen it as the right choice to tighten the game up. It had little or nothing to do with a lack of options.

Blatter

Correct, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. Mou didn't trust that the team had gelled enough to approach things more head on, as the 5-0 in 2010 showed. It's a very different story now.

Bodhisopha

Barca will do them. Bring it on.

Davaeo09

Barca will have that Extra edge if they meet again I in CL.
They have more experienced players at this level tbf.

Moneymaker

They've been dominant up to a point.

More recently Madrid have been much closer to them, as they become more accustomed to playing against them and Jose figuring things out tactically.

Obviously the 5-0 stands out but to say Barca have dominated Madrid is silly tbh.

Davaeo09

I would think there is many happy fans here.
After all the waiting and wanting, David Villa looks to be restored to the starting line up and to great effect!

The Milan result coupled with such a comfortable win at home to Rayo Vallenco, things are looking up!