Scrap the Irish Language Commissioner

Lord TSC

An Coilean wrote: »

Personally I can't see myself arresting anyone for choosing to speak Irish, a far more reasonable responce would be to phone the station and ask to be put in touch with an Irish speaking Garda who could help with the situation.

And if such a Gardai isn't available at that moment?

And I still reject the premise he was arrested because he spoke Irish; he was arrested because he broke the law and would not/could not communicate his details to the Gardai. There's a difference there....

shruikan2553

A question for the people who think we should speak irish. Why? What logical reason outside of a hobby is there for it, how is my life any better?
People have every right to speak whatever language they want but you cant expect everyone to speak it as well. I have no interest in learning polish or Spanish but I don't hate the languages.

ZeitgeistGlee

Coles wrote: »

I certainly agree that it's worth looking at the historical context of the inferiority complex that many Irish people feel towards their own culture.

Good point.

Is that really all you can do now Coles? :rolleyes:

Still waiting for your response about what constitutes an 'Irish person' to you by the way.

An Coilean

opti0nal wrote: »

But you said he was arrested for 'speaking Irish'.

He was arrested because of a failure of the Gardaí to accomodate his right to speak Irish.

It should only be a right to receive services in Irish, where Irish is a person's only language and they would otherwise lose other rights (not just the right to speak Irish).

Why? If someone wishes to conduct their business with the state through Irish, why should they be forced to use English?

English should be recognised as our first national language.

Good luck with that.

An Coilean

shruikan2553 wrote: »

A question for the people who think we should speak irish. Why? What logical reason outside of a hobby is there for it, how is my life any better?
People have every right to speak whatever language they want but you cant expect everyone to speak it as well. I have no interest in learning polish or Spanish but I don't hate the languages.

My answer to that question is that I could not care less what language if any you choose to speak, as long as my right to speak Irish is respected.

That is the problem for some people in ths thread, they simply can not bring themselves to respect the choice of Irish speakers who wish to speak Irish.

opti0nal

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

And I still reject the premise he was arrested because he spoke Irish; he was arrested because he broke the law and would not/could not communicate his details to the Gardai. There's a difference there....

Irish language enthusiasts raise issue the level of the 'right to speak Irish' as if it were as important a human right as that of access rights for disabled people.

It's just a ploy to create more work for Irish speakers or, alternatively, a way of increasing the Irish-speaking population by coercion. It's an offense to disobey directives from the Irish language commisar.

opti0nal

An Coilean wrote: »

That is the problem for some people in ths thread, they simply can not bring themselves to respect the choice of Irish speakers who wish to speak Irish.

Irish speakers insist on forcing English-speaking children to speak Irish. Where's the respect there?

An Coilean

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

And if such a Gardai isn't available at that moment?

And I still reject the premise he was arrested because he spoke Irish; he was arrested because he broke the law and would not/could not communicate his details to the Gardai. There's a difference there....

If you could not find a Garda capable of telling you how to say 'What is your name' and 'Where are you from' in Irish. Then there is something seriously wrong with the Gardaí as an organisation.

clairefontaine

An Coilean wrote: »

My answer to that question is that I could not care less what language if any you choose to speak, as long as my right to speak Irish is respected.

That is the problem for some people in ths thread, they simply can not bring themselves to respect the choice of Irish speakers who wish to speak Irish.

I guess the problem is not your right to speak Irish, but your expectation for the cops to speak it back to you or to understand what you are talking about.

Coles

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

What constitutes an 'Irish person' to you by the way.

Another interesting question. I have a very open definition, but it's based on the person making a conscious choice. If they have chosen to identify themselves as Irish then that's good enough for me. I suppose it also requires an allegiance to the land and a respect for the native tradition, heritage and culture. I find most people who lack this really don't want to be considered 'Irish' and usually choose another identity. Like you guys.

shruikan2553

An Coilean wrote: »

My answer to that question is that I could not care less what language if any you choose to speak, as long as my right to speak Irish is respected.

That is the problem for some people in ths thread, they simply can not bring themselves to respect the choice of Irish speakers who wish to speak Irish.

Where have people tried to stop you? I haven't seen anyone mention you can't speak Irish to other Irish speakers just as any other language in this country

opti0nal

An Coilean wrote: »

If you could not find a Garda capable of telling you how to say 'What is your name' and 'Where are you from' in Irish. Then there is something seriously wrong with the Gardaí as an organisation.

Were they the only questions?

You know quite well that when it comes to questions which may lead to a prosecution, there are likely to be many of them, they must be put accurately and any shortfall in the Garda's proficiency in Irish could lead to a guilty person getting off on a technicality.

The Irish enthusiast was probably aware of this too.

One wonders if that same Irish enthusiast finds himself in A&E and in considerable pain, what language would he use? Woud he demand to be attended only by Irish speaking doctors and nurses? Would he sue the hospital if their Irish was not fluent enough?

This is not about rights, it's about abusing rights put in place for monoglot Irish speakers.

ZeitgeistGlee

Coles wrote: »

Another interesting question. I have a very open definition, but it's based on the person making a conscious choice. If they have chosen to identify themselves as Irish then that's good enough for me.

So you have an open definition that's based on specific criteria, interesting. That's usually called a contradiction. :rolleyes:

Coles wrote: »

I suppose it also requires an allegiance to the land and a respect for the native tradition, heritage and culture.

Based on your previous posts I'd say you meant "adherence to" rather than "respect for".

Coles wrote: »

I find most people who lack this really don't want to be considered 'Irish' and usually choose another identity. Like you guys.

:rolleyes:

And if I choose to identify myself as Irish but have no interest in or respect for the forced proliferation of the Irish language or any other historic cultural aspect am I still Irish according to you?

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

@Wibbs. You're flogging a dead horse trying to say that TG4 spends theri money on the Irish Language. It's just not true. It's a television service.

In Irish. Why was it set up? Why was RnG set up? You're being the dictionary definition of disingenuous by continuing to plough that furrow. I see your schtick that "TG4 are barely funded by the state" has run dry though.

Coles wrote: »

@Wibbs. wtf. I have asked that you provide some data to support the €1 billion a year figure. Please don't keep trotting it out until you can support it. Please.

As I've said if a person in the know suggests it and it's a figure repeated all over the place I'll go with that Ted. Plus even if I gave you a blow by blow breakdown our experience of your ducking and diving with regard to TG4 would simply be repeated.

taytothief wrote: »

Wahwah. What's your view on how much we spend on teaching poetry, French, Spanish, religion, advanced mathematics, etc etc etc, on and on and on. Although, I doubt you've read up that much on those have you? Irish though, we definitely shouldn't be spending money on that, should we.

No, because the one thing the Gaelgoiri refuse to admit is reality and the reality on the ground is it has failed. They'll even baulk at the notion of teaching Irish as a foreign language(even though that would majorly help). Why throw good money after bad? I'd throw out religion myself. But wait weren't we not a very religious peeeple? Is that not part of our "heritage" and "culture"? BTW the amount of students of the other subjects are a serious minority compared to those who have to take Irish from their first day in school.

"I have travelled across the length and breadth of etc."
Thomas Macauley

Coles wrote: »

I certainly agree that it's worth looking at the historical context of the inferiority complex that many Irish people feel towards their own culture.

Heeeere we go folks. Strap yourselves in, the West Brit go back to Albion is sure to follow soon enough. Though I do love how your Gaelgoiri equate questions of wasting large chunks of money on a language project that has clearly failed is somehow in possession of an inferiority complex.

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

I suppose it also requires an allegiance to the land and a respect for the native tradition, heritage and culture.

Define native tradition, heritage and culture then. What about an Irish speaker who can't abide Irish trad music? Or a GAA fanatic without a word of Irish? I suspect your definitions would be so narrow that if they were made flesh they could look through a keyhole with both eyes at once.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

An Coilean wrote: »

He was arrested because of a failure of the Gardaí to accomodate his right to speak Irish.


Why? If someone wishes to conduct their business with the state through Irish, why should they be forced to use English?

1 - Will you stop blaming the guard! The guy was arrested because of his refuslal to speak English. Stupidity is trying to hold a conversation in an uncommon language when you have a common language and then blaming theother party.

2 - Why should the state be forced to conduct it's business with you in Irish? What's the difference between being unable to speak a common langauge and refusing to speak a common language?

clairefontaine

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

2 - Why should the state be forced to conduct it's business with you in Irish?

Because the state forces you to study it for 14 years.

Dionysius2

Coles wrote: »

Well, it appears to me that the Garda probably could speak the language. 14 years learning it in school? probably a qualifying language to enter the force? 3 years learning it in Templemore? And then he hand-cuffs a man and detains him because the man had the temerity to address him in Irish? Sounds like a bad attitude to me!

The sad truth is that we have thousands upon thousands of people in our public services upon whom millions has been expended teaching them their own native language (not some foreign import) and who together represent national testimony to one of our greatest collective failures. Not only that but the dense dumb assed manner in which the teaching was sustained decade after decade without somebody in the topmost echelon of our ruling elite(s) saying : " hey, this is not working....the 'return on investment is NIL'......we need a new plan, Sam ! " How come that it is only now that we seem to be able to grasp that what has gone before in regard to teaching and restoring Irish has been a wasted effort of unbelievable stupidity. Deeprooted endemic failure was completely ignored year upon year as if.......one day soon we will get the hang of it.
If you keep on doing what you are doing, then you will keep on getting what you are getting.

"Oh the days of the Kerry dancing...Oh the lilt of the pipers tune...!

Shure wasn't it grand.

opti0nal

Dionysius2 wrote: »

The sad truth is that we have thousands upon thousands of people in our public services upon whom millions has been expended teaching them their own native language

But it's not their native language, nor that of most of the population. That's why it failed.

Irish as our 'First National Language' is a delusional conceit.

An Coilean

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

1 - Will you stop blaming the guard! The guy was arrested because of his refuslal to speak English. Stupidity is trying to hold a conversation in an uncommon language when you have a common language and then blaming theother party.

The Garda, and more correctly the Gardaí as an organisation is where the blame lies!

Refusing to speak English is not a crime. Irish speakers have a right to use Irish when dealing with the state. The Gardaí have a duty to accomodate the use of Irish and there can be no question of them arresting members of the public for refusing to speak English and choosing instead to speak Irish.

2 - Why should the state be forced to conduct it's business with you in Irish? What's the difference between being unable to speak a common langauge and refusing to speak a common language?

''The modern state necessarily imposes many onerous duties on citizens in relation to various aspects of life from tax compliance to planing law. Many of these duties are irksome, time consuming and expencive to comply with, but compliance is properly required.

Equally the state itself must comply with its obligations, particularly those enshrined in the constitution and can no more be heard to complain that such compliance is irksome or onerous than can the individual citizen''.

That quote comes from Justice Hardiman of the Supreme Court in relation to Ó Beoláin v Fahy (2001) and I think it sums it up nicely.

opti0nal

An Coilean wrote: »

"'The modern state necessarily imposes many onerous duties on citizens in relation to various aspects of life from tax compliance to planing law. Many of these duties are irksome, time consuming and expencive to comply with, but compliance is properly required."

These duties are for the common good.

Forcing public servants and small children to speak Irish for the satisfaction of Irish language enthusiasts does not contribute to the common good.

The judge's ruling could also apply to Irish enthusiasts, requiring them to speak the English language when necessary and practical, something they find irksome to do.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

An Coilean wrote: »

The Garda, and more correctly the Gardaí as an organisation is where the blame lies!

Refusing to speak English is not a crime. Irish speakers have a right to use Irish when dealing with the state. The Gardaí have a duty to accomodate the use of Irish and there can be no question of them arresting members of the public for refusing to speak English and choosing instead to speak Irish.

How many times are we goign to go around in this circle of yours? Are you seriously under the dilusio that he requested that the police to speak Irish and they responded by arresting him? Hom many times are you going to try and convince us that all he did was speak Irish and, as a result, got arrested?

''The modern state necessarily imposes many onerous duties on citizens in relation to various aspects of life from tax compliance to planing law. Many of these duties are irksome, time consuming and expencive to comply with, but compliance is properly required.

Equally the state itself must comply with its obligations, particularly those enshrined in the constitution and can no more be heard to complain that such compliance is irksome or onerous than can the individual citizen''.

That quote comes from Justice Hardiman of the Supreme Court in relation to Ó Beoláin v Fahy (2001) and I think it sums it up nicely.

A lot of which are not onerous. One of the most onerous duties being the imposition of Irish from about the age of 4. This quote works both ways.

Also, the guards did comply with their obligations - they brought him back to the station so that they could deal with him in Irish as he requested/ And dont; harp on about the arresting and the handcuffs - I've delt with that twice already and you never replied to either post.

kowloon

Coles wrote: »

I suppose it also requires an allegiance to the land and a respect for the native tradition, heritage and culture. I find most people who lack this really don't want to be considered 'Irish' and usually choose another identity. Like you guys.

I consider our history more important than the language. I've met many an ardent Irish speaker who doesn't have a clue about Irish history before 1916 and some who know even less.

It seems it's fine to abandon the history, not even compulsory in the Junior cert, but the language is a sacred cow. Teachers, in order to keep the children interested, have to appeal to modern culture; they talk about X-Factor in Irish.

You can respect native tradition and culture without speaking one particular language. You can also speak the language and be completely divorced from it all.

I don't really do the 'us and them' attitude that you seem to have cultivated, but I know a fair bit of history and I'm vary aware of all this heritage and culture people go on about. My folks are big into their history, I used to get taken on trips to historical sites and excavations all the time as a child and was always encouraged to learn about it.

I think I can safely say I'm as steeped in Irish culture as anyone else here, requiring me to talk in any particular language to be considered part of the club is myopic in the extreme.

An Coilean

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

How many times are we goign to go around in this circle of yours? Are you seriously under the dilusio that he requested that the police to speak Irish and they responded by arresting him? Hom many times are you going to try and convince us that all he did was speak Irish and, as a result, got arrested?

I'm sorry, but clearly had he spoken in English instead of Irish, he would not have been arrested, so he was arrested for speaking Irish.

Also, the guards did comply with their obligations - they brought him back to the station so that they could deal with him in Irish as he requested/ And dont; harp on about the arresting and the handcuffs - I've delt with that twice already and you never replied to either post.

The report clearly found that the Gardaí faild to meet their obligations, you might have your own criteria, but both under legislation, and commitments made by the Gardaí in their own language scheme, they failed to meet their obligations.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

An Coilean wrote: »

And your point is? I am not claiming that the report said the person was arrested for 'Speaking Irish' I am saying that someone choose to speak Irish when stopped by a member of the Gardaí and was arrested as a direct result of that choice. That is exactly what the issue here is.

An Coilean wrote: »

I'm sorry, but clearly had he spoken in English instead of Irish, he would not have been arrested, so he was arrested for speaking Irish.

You're either of the opinion he was or he wasn't.

The logic is also false because you assume that all other factors were consistant. Correlation is not causality: while he may have been arrested as a result of his speaking Irish, he was not arrested as a driect cause of speakign Irish. This has been explained many, many times.

The report clearly found that the Gardaí faild to meet their obligations, you might have your own criteria, but both under legislation, and commitments made by the Gardaí in their own language scheme, they failed to meet their obligations.

The Gardai, as an organsiation, yes - but again, I accepted this (even made the point myself) at least twice.

gnfnrhead

Before starting to read this thread I had a small amount of interest in attempting to learn Irish properly at some stage. However, having now seen the elitest attitude taken by the vast majority of the pro-Irish language side in this thread, I now have zero interest in doing so.

If you want more people to speak the language, insulting those who dont speak it is the last thing you should be doing.

feargale

marienbad wrote: »

time for the munster v connaught match on tg4 with optional radio commentary in english

I watch soccer on Spanish tv sometimes. The commentator always gives it in Spanish. The damn fellow just won't speak English!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

feargale wrote: »

I watch soccer on Spanish tv sometimes. The commentator always gives it in Spanish. The damn fellow just won't speak English!

Ah, back in the good old days, TG4 used to show Spanish soccer...

opti0nal

An Coilean wrote: »

I'm sorry, but clearly had he spoken in English instead of Irish, he would not have been arrested, so he was arrested for speaking Irish.

The Gardai can arrest anyone they suspect of committing an offence. That's what happened.

An Coilean wrote: »

The report clearly found that the Gardaí faild to meet their obligations, you might have your own criteria, but both under legislation, and commitments made by the Gardaí in their own language scheme, they failed to meet their obligations.

All tecnically and legally correct. But in reality these obligations are absurd and morally wrong.

There is nothing wrong with requiring an English-speaker to speak Englsh.

Lightbulb Sun

The Irish language has strong value being the national language. This trend of wanting to get rid of roles just for the sake of freeing up some cash in a recession is getting silly imo. The OP mentions a huge amount of wasted expenditure and says it like its fact without giving any figures. Id rather the commissioner stay and fulfil its role of maintaining an Irish language presence rather than going to free up a tiny amount in a big hole.

gnfnrhead

Lightbulb Sun wrote: »

The Irish language has strong value being the national language. This trend of wanting to get rid of roles just for the sake of freeing up some cash in a recession is getting silly imo. The OP mentions a huge amount of wasted expenditure and says it like its fact without giving any figures. Id rather the commissioner stay and fulfil its role of maintaining an Irish language presence rather than going to free up a tiny amount in a big hole.

I'm guessing you never heard of every little helps?

Lightbulb Sun

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I'm guessing you never heard of every little helps?

At the expense of another nail in the coffin?

gnfnrhead

Lightbulb Sun wrote: »

At the expense of another nail in the coffin?

Considering how little it provides in the grand scheme of things, it would be a worthwhile risk to take. €1bn was reported as being spent on the language per year. Lets say that is inflated big time and its actually only €500m a year, thats still a hell of a lot of money for.... what exactly?

The country cant afford to be wasting that amount of money on something so small.

Coles

There's a lot of hate in this thread. And excuses. Sh!t excuses for laziness.

Meanwhile...



Do Wibbs and the gang feel threatened? You really shouldn't.

Coles

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Considering how little it provides in the grand scheme of things, it would be a worthwhile risk to take. €1bn was reported as being spent on the language per year. Lets say that is inflated big time and its actually only €500m a year, thats still a hell of a lot of money for.... what exactly?

The country cant afford to be wasting that amount of money on something so small.

Could you provide a link to your source please. A spoofer has already been caught out on this one...

Here's a good read. A well sourced breakdown of the cost of promoting the Irish Language.

gnfnrhead

Coles wrote: »

Could you provide a link to your source please. A spoofer has already been caught out on this one...

I seen you caught out alright, but thats it unless I missed it. It's on the previous page. Like I said, even if it is inflated it is still a massive amount of money, that we cant afford, going to waste.

ZeitgeistGlee

Coles wrote: »

There's a lot of hate in this thread. And excuses.

So what's your excuse for all the hate you've peddled in the thread?

Coles wrote: »

Do Wibbs and the gang feel threatened? You really shouldn't.

You've posted that two or three times now and the general response has always been that the numbers shot up with the Celtic Tiger and then levelled off with the recession implying that Irish schools were just another fad during the good times rather than the grand Irish revival movement in full swing.

Coles wrote: »

Could you provide a link to your source please. A spoofer has already been caught out on this one...

You mean the way you were trying to spoof €15 million as the overall cost of proliferating the Irish language?

Coles wrote: »

Here's a good read. A well sourced breakdown of the cost of promoting the Irish Language.

Ah yes, your "simple maths" that exclude every factor that doesn't suit your argument. :rolleyes:

Why don't you repost that unbiased Irish-speaker report from earlier too.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Coles wrote: »

There's a lot of hate in this thread. And excuses. Sh!t excuses for laziness.
.

I suppose it's also down to laziness that I can't fly a plane, even though I've spent something like 1000 hours on planes?

Lelantos

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

So what's your excuse for all the hate you've peddled in the thread?



You've posted that two or three times now and the general response has always been that the numbers shot up with the Celtic Tiger and then levelled off with the recession implying that Irish schools were just another fad during the good times rather than the grand Irish revival movement in full swing.



You mean the way you were trying to spoof €15 million as the overall cost of proliferating the Irish language?



Ah yes, your "simple maths" that exclude every factor that doesn't suit your argument. :rolleyes:

Why don't you repost that unbiased Irish-speaker report from earlier too.

The Irish schools being a fad is incorrect. Here in Tralee we have a secondary school that is increasingly under pressure to accept more & more pupils every year. It is now at the point where a site has been acquired to build a new school.

Coles

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I suppose it's also down to laziness that I can't fly a plane, even though I've spent something like 1000 hours on planes?

Cleaning them or selling lottery tickets? If you were expected to fly the plane they would try to train you to do it. Like when you're educated in a school?

Coles

Lelantos wrote: »

The Irish schools being a fad is incorrect. Here in Tralee we have a secondary school that is increasingly under pressure to accept more & more pupils every year. It is now at the point where a site has been acquired to build a new school.

+1 Lelantos. There's a couple of interesting things happening from what I can see. There has been a massive baby boom over the last couple of years and more and more parents are choosing to set up Gaelscoileanna. And when that has been achieved they are then pushing for the establishment of Irish speaking secondary schools.

Anyone who looks at the graph and says that the growth is anything to do with the Celtic Tiger mush be a bit dim.

But the gang here wants to kill the language! Oh dear Jesus.:rolleyes:

Lightbulb Sun

Lelantos wrote: »

The Irish schools being a fad is incorrect. Here in Tralee we have a secondary school that is increasingly under pressure to accept more & more pupils every year. It is now at the point where a site has been acquired to build a new school.

Very true. My mother is a teacher in an Irish language primary school and the demand is as high as you are implying for the secondary school in Tralee.

Coles

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I seen you caught out alright, but thats it unless I missed it.

Oh? Did I miss that? Link please.

Like I said, even if it is inflated it is still a massive amount of money, that we cant afford, going to waste.

You are swallowing another persons crap and vomiting it up again.

ZeitgeistGlee

Lelantos wrote: »

The Irish schools being a fad is incorrect. Here in Tralee we have a secondary school that is increasingly under pressure to accept more & more pupils every year. It is now at the point where a site has been acquired to build a new school.

Uhuh, so one school being an outlier/exception to the general trend (as suggested by Coles's figures) disproves the trend itself.

Using the graph provided by Coles over the last six years (2007-2012), particularly the last three there has been comparatively fractional growth of Irish language schools whether Primary or Secondary to the preceding six years (2001-2006) and even less so again to the six years before that (1995-2000). In general statistical terms we can therefore say the trend has levelled off.

Given this growth period occurred concurrently to the Celtic Tiger boom years and levelled with the recession there is a likely correlation between the two.

Lelantos

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Uhuh, so one school being an outlier/exception to the general trend (as suggested by Coles's figures) disproves the trend itself.

Using the graph provided by Coles over the last six years (2007-2012), particularly the last three there has been comparatively fractional growth of Irish language schools whether Primary or Secondary to the preceding six years (2001-2006) and even less so again to the six years before that (1995-2000). In general statistical terms we can therefore say the trend has levelled off.

Given this growth period occurred concurrently to the Celtic Tiger boom years and levelled with the recession there is a likely correlation between the two.

It's the same with the primary school here actually, and interestingly enough, a small number of African & Asian children have enrolled in the last few years, not interested in whatever little contest you lot are involved in, was just stating the facts in my own area

ZeitgeistGlee

Coles wrote: »

+1 Lelantos. There's a couple of interesting things happening from what I can see. There has been a massive baby boom over the last couple of years and more and more parents are choosing to set up Gaelscoileanna. And when that has been achieved they are then pushing for the establishment of Irish speaking secondary schools.

Your own data contracts this.

Coles wrote: »

Anyone who looks at the graph and says that the growth is anything to do with the Celtic Tiger mush be a bit dim.

:rolleyes:

Coles wrote: »

But the gang here wants to kill the language! Oh dear Jesus.:rolleyes:

Of course we do, I've secretly sent telegrams to Westminster offering Her Majesty marriage to our the President in order to secure a political alliance. It's the first step to full reunification with glorious Britannia.

Lelantos wrote: »

It's the same with the primary school here actually, and interestingly enough, a small number of African & Asian children have enrolled in the last few years, not interested in whatever little contest you lot are involved in

Given the secondary school has to expand I'd be actually surprised if the primary didn't unless it was comparatively larger to begin with. Logically an influx of students into the primary would lead to a requirement for the secondary to expand to cope.

Lelantos wrote: »

was just stating the facts in my own area

Except that you phrased it in a way challenging the veracity of my post.

Lelantos

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Your own data contracts this.



:rolleyes:



Of course we do, I've secretly sent telegrams to Westminster offering Her Majesty marriage to our the President in order to secure a political alliance. It's the first step to full reunification with glorious Britannia.



Given the secondary school has to expand I'd be actually surprised if the primary didn't unless it was comparatively larger to begin with. Logically an influx of students into the primary would lead to a requirement for the secondary to expand to cope.



Except that you phrased it in a way challenging the veracity of my post.

Well describing Irish schools as a fad is clearly incorrect, the rest of your post doesn't concern me.

Wibbs

Coles wrote: »

Could you provide a link to your source please. A spoofer has already been caught out on this one...

Here's a good read. A well sourced breakdown of the cost of promoting the Irish Language.

Well sourced breakdown? :pac: I'm the spoofer? Riiight, so I said this? "[TG4's] budget is composed of advertising revenue, program sales, a portion of TV licence money and a modest grant from the general budget". Eh no, you did and were proven completely and utterly wrong as over 30 Million comes from the government in direct funding(with another 10 odd of indirect funding/support from RTE), advertising and other revenues make up a tiny proportion of their overall budget. Not exactly value for money for 2% market share. Well not unless it's promoting the Irish language, but according to you it's not, it's just a TV station that happens to be in Irish...

Coles wrote: »

There's a lot of hate in this thread. And excuses. Sh!t excuses for laziness.

You're like a broken record. You're seeing hate and chavs and morons etc but that's all about you.

Meanwhile...



Do Wibbs and the gang feel threatened? You really shouldn't.

You're right. Even if people were hellbent on hating the language(which is a tiny amount out there) a niche area of 200 odd schools (according to that graph) would hardly be "threatening" ranged against the 4000 odd schools educating as Bearla.

Meh I've run out of troll food and the circular "arguments" are boring so I'm outa here.

Lightbulb Sun

Wibbs wrote: »

Well sourced breakdown? :pac: I'm the spoofer? Riiight, so I said this? "[TG4's] budget is composed of advertising revenue, program sales, a portion of TV licence money and a modest grant from the general budget". Eh no, you did and were proven completely and utterly wrong as over 30 Million comes from the government in direct funding(with another 10 odd of indirect funding/support from RTE), advertising and other revenues make up a tiny proportion of their overall budget. Not exactly value for money for 2% market share. Well not unless it's promoting the Irish language, but according to you it's not, it's just a TV station that happens to be in Irish...



You're right. Even if people were hellbent on hating the language(which is a tiny amount out there) a niche area of 200 odd schools (according to that graph) would hardly be "threatening" ranged against the 4000 odd schools educating as Bearla.

Meh I've run out of troll food and the circular "arguments" are boring so I'm outa here.

I wouldn't begrudge TG4 that money in any way. They do a good job on their very limited budget.


Niche? Did you not read the points reiterated several times just recently in the thread about the demand for places in Irish schools?

Coles

Wibbs wrote: »

...I'm outa here.

It's been good. If nothing else you learned when the Ice Age ended.