Are there laws around unpaid work?

Faith

If a job is advertised which requires a commitment of say, a year at a fixed number of hours a week (let's say 21), a commitment of working every week apart from holiday time, working directly with people and has no payment offered - is that legal? Is there laws around voluntary/unpaid work? I think in the UK, voluntary work can't have a contract commitment or minimum number of hours per week, and the worker can choose when to come in or not. If any of those are breached, the worker is due at least legal minimum wage.

I'm just curious if we have laws protecting voluntary workers here in Ireland. Many people, myself included, are desperate to get work experience and will work for free - within reason. Can companies just take complete advantage of this, or are they breaking any law if they offer a "job" like above?

Cool Mo D

I think for a valid contract there has to be some kind of tangible value, service or payment provided by both sides for the contract to be binding? I'm not a lawyer though.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

I think for a valid contract there has to be some kind of tangible value, service or payment provided by both sides for the contract to be binding? I'm not a lawyer though.

Dead right.
No consideration (payment each way - money or otherwise - they receive consideration in the form of work done by you) = no contract.

To be honest, unless it was a charitable organisation, I would never commit to working in such a position for free. The majority of places that advertise such positions are profit making businesses looking to extort those who, as you put it, are desperate for work experience. Many people who are in courses in FAS have to do something like 6/9 months unpaid work and I think that's something that should be changed - it allows businesses that are not struggling financially (such as a well known supermarket chain) access to free labour and as such, unpaid work has become something of a norm among the younger population in my experience, especially so with school leavers.

Anyway, you should bear in mind that committing yourself to 20 hours unpaid work per week may possibly affect your welfare entitlements.

I would advise you, if you are really stuck for work, to go into as many bars/pubs as you can and ask if there's any shift work going.
Most pubs in my home town are crying out for decent staff, surprisingly enough. Most people don't like having to work Friday/Saturday nights I suppose. Don't be surprised if they want to pay you under the table though.

Faith

Thanks. It's not a position I would ever take! Is there any actual laws being broken by asking someone to commit to a full year's work, 21 hours a week, with no pay though? Let's say it's not Jobbridge or FAS, or anything like that, just a private company exploiting desperate graduates.

Victor

If it is an apprenticeship or similar, there may be a contract situation. The employer gets work done, the employee gets training.

You might talk to NERA www.employmentrights.ie

Faith

Victor wrote: »

If it is an apprenticeship or similar, there may be a contract situation. The employer gets work done, the employee gets training.

You might talk to www.NERA.ie

As I said, it's not any type of training scheme. It's a job that's not paid. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it's a dental nursing job.

Also, your link doesn't work.

Peregrinus

Lucca Early Shelter wrote: »

No consideration (payment each way - money or otherwise - they receive consideration in the form of work done by you) = no contract.

But there is consideration. They're providing you with experience, perhaps witha place of work or with work materials, with an opportunity to network and build up contacts, possibly with some kind of training, or the opportunity to meet some practical experience requirement towards a trade or academic qualification. The fact that there are people out there who would take such positions indicates that people do get something of value to them.

Quite how this fits with the National Minimum Wage Act, I'm not sure. But I don't see anything in the minimum wage legislation which would mean that the application of the legislation depended on whether a voluntary work agreement stipulated a set number of hours or not.

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Peregrinus wrote: »

But there is consideration. They're providing you with experience, perhaps witha place of work or with work materials, with an opportunity to network and build up contacts, possibly with some kind of training, or the opportunity to meet some practical experience requirement towards a trade or academic qualification. The fact that there are people out there who would take such positions indicates that people do get something of value to them.

I really don't see a judge accepting that as a form of consideration.
As he said, there's no training involved, this is purely to have something to put down on a CV.

Peregrinus

Lucca Early Shelter wrote: »

I really don't see a judge accepting that as a form of consideration.
As he said, there's no training involved, this is purely to have something to put down on a CV.

So? Why is that not consideration?

StillWaters

It's an internship. Totally legal, but if it's not jobridge it will affect the applicants social welfare entitlement.

yelselseivad

Son took up a postition last week - no remuneration at all - it's costing me money for him to get there etc. NOT jobbridge He's not claiming social welfare . Working 5 days a week over 7 days, it's shift work 9-6 11-9 etc including Bank Holidays. He maintains if he says anything at all he'll just be replaced by someone else as they have a string of people willing to come in instead of him and he thinks it will look good on his cv. He's not receiving any training.
My main concern is that of Liability Insurance - if anything happens to him , or equally, if he pours a cup of hot coffee over someone, will he be insured?