Are the rental prices the final figure?

fasttalkerchat

space_man wrote: »

i rent properties in dublin, and if a prospective tenant had the temerity to ask for a rent reduction in today's market, he/she would immediately be struck off my list.:D

Fair play to you if your prices are accurate but usually a house is advertised at 550 and you call up and they say its 525. Depending on demand after a viewing you can get 500. That's what I'm seeing. Having said that, when I lived in Dublin I paid the full asking price because I didn't want a fixed contract and needed to move in ASAP.

Agent Smith

got a 50 euro reduction when i Renewed the lease last year. Would be a bit cheeky if i asked for another one

Cathmandooo

Agent Smith wrote: »

got a 50 euro reduction when i Renewed the lease last year. Would be a bit cheeky if i asked for another one

Not cheeky at all, go for it! I was in a rental for 3 years, got a discount on renewal each year. When I left the new tenants signed up to pay my original rent before 2 years of discounts. I'd definitely push for the discount.

Agent Smith

Cathmandooo wrote: »

Not cheeky at all, go for it! I was in a rental for 3 years, got a discount on renewal each year. When I left the new tenants signed up to pay my original rent before 2 years of discounts. I'd definitely push for the discount.

Even with Property charges now?

space_man

Agent Smith wrote: »

Even with Property charges now?

my tenants will pay for them. they use the services, so they pay.:D

Cathmandooo

Agent Smith wrote: »

Even with Property charges now?

It's always worth a try, if you're a good tenant a landlord will want to hang on to you.

space_man

Cathmandooo wrote: »

It's always worth a try, if you're a good tenant a landlord will want to hang on to you.

tenants are and always have been 6 a penny.

murphaph

space_man wrote: »

tenants are and always have been 6 a penny.

Not good tenants.

nxbyveromdwjpg

murphaph wrote: »

Not good tenants.

For good properties there are plenty of good tenants.

Not a hope in hell of a reduction in rent asking price in Dublin from my experience late last year.

gaius c

Agent Smith wrote: »

Even with Property charges now?

Cat may be in a place where demand for rental is not so high so such a stance may be justified.

TheBandicoot

Agent Smith wrote: »

Even with Property charges now?

The property tax is deductible for the LL, so don't let anyone use that as an excuse for a rental increase.

murphaph

TheBandicoot wrote: »

The property tax is deductible for the LL, so don't let anyone use that as an excuse for a rental increase.

Did you read your linked blog post?

TheBandicoot

murphaph wrote: »

Did you read your linked blog post?

Yes. It says that LPT paid is deductible against rental income, meaning it's not a cost to the LL.

murphaph

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Yes. It says that LPT paid is deductible against rental income, meaning it's not a cost to the LL.

Eh, no it doesn't. It says it will be introduced on a phased basis, meaning it is not currently a deductible expense. It is not provided for in the existing legislation.

TheBandicoot

The landlord will never decrease the rent as the phases are implemented and his CODB goes down. So don't accept the increase in the first place.

murphaph

TheBandicoot wrote: »

The landlord will never decrease the rent as the phases are implemented and his CODB goes down. So don't accept the increase in the first place.

So you believe this promise from the minster of finance then?

RATM

nm wrote: »

For good properties there are plenty of good tenants.

Not a hope in hell of a reduction in rent asking price in Dublin from my experience late last year.

That all depends where in Dublin you are. Where I am in D11 there is a NAMA controlled apartment block with around 300 finished but empty units. NAMA is now funding the develpoers to finish it off (and build a 12 screen cinema to boot!) so in the last 6 months over 300 new units have hit the local market and they've depressed prices, no doubt about that, as I've been keeping my eye on Daft asking prices in the area for a while now.

As they are brand new units that have been released landlords of older units are finding it tougher to rent in the area; at a minimum it is taking them a month to do so and sometimes two months. So in those situations I'd hazard a guess that a smart landlord & clever businessman would far prefer getting it rented and offer €50/100 off asking than risk it being empty for one or two months.

Unless of course you're space man in which case you think all tenants are liars and think that good tenants are six a penny, sounds like a landlord you'd want to avoid at all costs for he sounds neither smart nor clever.

D3PO

RATM wrote: »

That all depends where in Dublin you are. Where I am in D11 there is a NAMA controlled apartment block with around 300 finished but empty units. NAMA is now funding the develpoers to finish it off (and build a 12 screen cinema to boot!) so in the last 6 months over 300 new units have hit the local market and they've depressed prices, no doubt about that, as I've been keeping my eye on Daft asking prices in the area for a while now.

As they are brand new units that have been released landlords of older units are finding it tougher to rent in the area; at a minimum it is taking them a month to do so and sometimes two months. So in those situations I'd hazard a guess that a smart landlord & clever businessman would far prefer getting it rented and offer €50/100 off asking than risk it being empty for one or two months.

Unless of course you're space man in which case you think all tenants are liars and think that good tenants are six a penny, sounds like a landlord you'd want to avoid at all costs for he sounds neither smart nor clever.

I bet you this block has had little or no impact on houses in the same area. A smart landlord wouldnt have looked to purchase an apartment for rental in D11 (No disrespect intended)

Mink

djimi wrote: »

Would you consider looking at Naas?

Have definitely considered it but we both work near city centre & have to go via Lucan to drop the wee man off at the mother in laws, hence wanting to stay along the M4.

RATM wrote: »

OP if living in North Kildare is not a 100% priority then do look at places on the north side Dublin.

Had considered it but as above.

Torque.ie wrote: »

As a letting agent - just like with car sales, most landlords & agents will inflate initial advertised monthly market rent in order to leave room for negotiation. Most landlords would rather let sooner at €100 less per month than risk waiting another month or two to find someone willing to pay the full price.

Vacant days cost money.

That's what I definitely would have thought.

We went to view a 3 bed in an old estate in Celbridge which was advertised at 950. It was absolutely dismal and not worth 950 at all. Even the estate agent admitted she wouldn't rent it for that much (that was after us saying it wasn't really our cup of tea).

She said there is a high demand for rentals in North Kildare and the modern ones are getting snapped up. But I really find it hard to believe that people are paying 900-1000 for some of the awful places we've seen.

Going to see a place in Johnstown Bridge tonight that is for same rent as where we are but bigger & more mod cons, will be an extra 10 mins on our journey.

Ah it's crap looking at rentals really isn't it!

Thanks for the advice.

space_man

D3PO wrote: »

I bet you this block has had little or no impact on houses in the same area. A smart landlord wouldnt have looked to purchase an apartment for rental in D11 (No disrespect intended)

agree 100%
anybody buying in d11 must be crazy.

bulmersgal

Mink wrote: »

Have definitely considered it but we both work near city centre & have to go via Lucan to drop the wee man off at the mother in laws, hence wanting to stay along the M4.



Had considered it but as above.



That's what I definitely would have thought.

We went to view a 3 bed in an old estate in Celbridge which was advertised at 950. It was absolutely dismal and not worth 950 at all. Even the estate agent admitted she wouldn't rent it for that much (that was after us saying it wasn't really our cup of tea).

She said there is a high demand for rentals in North Kildare and the modern ones are getting snapped up. But I really find it hard to believe that people are paying 900-1000 for some of the awful places we've seen.

Going to see a place in Johnstown Bridge tonight that is for same rent as where we are but bigger & more mod cons, will be an extra 10 mins on our journey.

Ah it's crap looking at rentals really isn't it!

Thanks for the advice.

What about kilcock

RATM

D3PO wrote: »

I bet you this block has had little or no impact on houses in the same area. A smart landlord wouldnt have looked to purchase an apartment for rental in D11 (No disrespect intended)

No disrespect taken I gladly live in D11 because its reputation goes before it which means if you can find the good spots within then you'll enjoy cheaper rents. This is mainly because the market thinks D11 and hears 'Finglas' and thinks we're all shooting people or something. If you go two miles away from where I am yeah sure people are shooting each other, but they ain't here and its perfectly safe. So I'll tolerate the 'reputation' and take advantage of the cheap rents Agree with you that I wouldn't buy an apartment to rent here- Dublin 1 or 2 are clearly a much better pick for that, mind you in saying that I'd never get into the property investment game, there is far more money to be made on the stock markets without the need to deal with tenants/ maintenance issues. Everyone I know who is in property investment is in negative equity, has tons of stress and it ain't going away. Their assets are depreciating whereas mine have appreciated 40% in 3 years with relatively little work or stress, I really don't get the obsession with 'brinks and mortar' when there are far better profits elsewhere and for less work.

Anyway back on topic - It is difficult to tell if all the new apartments have effected houses but my guess is it has- at the very least I am certain of this in the 2 bedroom house market (of which there is quite a few in my area) duplexes or 'townhouses', whatever the estate agent speak is for them. They've undoubtedly dropped asking prices in the last 6 moths since the new 2 bed apartments opened up. Obviously they are still more expensive than the apartments as they have gardens but they have still dropped, as I was keeping my eye on them and half thinking of moving.

Anyway I don't know the total intricacies of a local property market but surely it stands to reason that if a 2 bed apartment is (for arguments sake) 70% of the price of a 3 bed house and then the asking on 2 beds falls then surely the asking on a 3 bed house will fall to whatever that new 70% figure is, once the supply/demand equation has worked itself out ? I know they are technically different markets but at the same time I think there is some relativity between them. Like a bedsit/studio sets the floor on the market, all other classes of property are then more expensive by a certain ratio, with variance according to location, new/old appliances, decor, etc but still relative. No doubt it is something an economist like Ronan Lyons would be able to crunch number on but it seems to me that if a one bed drops in price and (all other things, demographics, etc being equal) then other properties will also drop, a bit like the reverse of the 'a rising tide will life all boats' adage.

Mink

bulmersgal wrote: »

What about kilcock

Yes looking there also. Have found a lovely house in Enfield that is affordable and will save us a fortune in heating oil, will add about 8-10 mins to our commute but it's the only thing we can get in our price range that isn't an old ugly ice-box.

TheBandicoot

Seems you'd be very lucky to get anything less than the asking price in Dublin these days. Over the weekend I saw the following property come on the market for €1150, then the next day the asking price went up to €1200 and the phone number was removed(presumably due to a flood of calls)

Rasmus

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Seems you'd be very lucky to get anything less than the asking price in Dublin these days. Over the weekend I saw the following property come on the market for €1150, then the next day the asking price went up to €1200 and the phone number was removed(presumably due to a flood of calls)

A one-bed for 1200? Jeez I am so glad I no longer live in Dublin city!

TheBandicoot

Yeah, it's bull****. It's not even the best one bed, it faces onto a very busy and noisy road, is on the first floor directly above a block entrance and it's very small(not helped by the excess of furniture the owner has in place).

RATM

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Seems you'd be very lucky to get anything less than the asking price in Dublin these days. Over the weekend I saw the following property come on the market for €1150, then the next day the asking price went up to €1200 and the phone number was removed(presumably due to a flood of calls)

That isn't in the least bit surprising for the area it is in. Within a 3 minute walk of that building you have 2,000 Google employees and 500 Facebook employees. The first 150 people that Facebook employed in Dublin have Facebook shares that are worth somewhere in the region of €500,000. If the share price hadn't tanked after the IPO they'd be millionaires, on paper at least. The same goes for Google, many senior managers in there are on €100k+ salaries.

So people like that will drop €1,200 on a one bed apartment and not even think twice about it. If you're on €100k you're probably netting about €60k post tax so an annual rent bill of €14,400 is still under 25% of your disposalble income. And that is for a single person. If both people are working in Google and earning a combined €150k then this one bed at €1200pm is an absolute bargain for them. Also employees of those companies have virtually no food bill- if they want they can even go in there on the weekends and eat very good and healthy food for free, in Google they can even take it away if they want. So their disposable income is even higher than many traditional employees in other companies who don't have the same perks. They also have a full gym and swimming pool in there too saving them even more money.

I'd actually argue that the agent could have got €1400 for that unit if he held out for the right couple. Google employees work long long hours so they want to live close to Barrow Street which subsequently pushes up asking prices due to heavy demand.

But Grand Canal Dock is one of the most in demand areas in Dublin. Just becaause you won't get a discount down there doesn't mean you won't get one in other areas of Dublin. Its a supply and demand equation at the end of the day and naturally some areas will always be more popular than others.

gaius c

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Seems you'd be very lucky to get anything less than the asking price in Dublin these days. Over the weekend I saw the following property come on the market for €1150, then the next day the asking price went up to €1200 and the phone number was removed(presumably due to a flood of calls)

Been seeing some extremely silly asking prices pop up on DAFT lately, like a 2 bed apartment off Cork St looking for €1400 a month. This might not be an actual bubble yet but there is froth in the market.

Rasmus

RATM wrote: »

That isn't in the least bit surprising for the area it is in. Within a 3 minute walk of that building you have 2,000 Google employees and 500 Facebook employees. The first 150 people that Facebook employed in Dublin have Facebook shares that are worth somewhere in the region of €500,000. If the share price hadn't tanked after the IPO they'd be millionaires, on paper at least. The same goes for Google, many senior managers in there are on €100k+ salaries.

So people like that will drop €1,200 on a one bed apartment and not even think twice about it. If you're on €100k you're probably netting about €60k post tax so an annual rent bill of €14,400 is still under 25% of your disposalble income. And that is for a single person. If both people are working in Google and earning a combined €150k then this one bed at €1200pm is an absolute bargain for them. Also employees of those companies have virtually no food bill- if they want they can even go in there on the weekends and eat very good and healthy food for free, in Google they can even take it away if they want. So their disposable income is even higher than many traditional employees in other companies who don't have the same perks. They also have a full gym and swimming pool in there too saving them even more money.

I'd actually argue that the agent could have got €1400 for that unit if he held out for the right couple. Google employees work long long hours so they want to live close to Barrow Street which subsequently pushes up asking prices due to heavy demand.

But Grand Canal Dock is one of the most in demand areas in Dublin. Just becaause you won't get a discount down there doesn't mean you won't get one in other areas of Dublin. Its a supply and demand equation at the end of the day and naturally some areas will always be more popular than others.

I highly doubt that a highly paid local employee, let alone a google employee couple (!) would rent a tiny apartment such as this one. Why would they when they could get something bigger and nicer still close to the large companies for a fraction more?

RATM

Rasmus wrote: »

I highly doubt that a highly paid local employee, let alone a google employee couple (!) would rent a tiny apartment such as this one. Why would they when they could get something bigger and nicer still close to the large companies for a fraction more?

I tend to disagree. For one 54sqm is fairly standard for 1 bed apartments built in the boom. You'd be hard pressed to find a glut of one beds in Dublin in excess of 65sqm, they just weren't built as developers maximised space and profits. So if it is a 1 bedroom apartment that people want then they're just going to have to deal with apartments that are 50-60sqm, thats the sizes they were built at and how the cookie crumbles.

Also in Grand Canal Dock it is not necessarily about what the people renting there *want*, it is about what they can get because demand far outstrips supply. Take a look at Daft right now- there are only 4 apartments less than €1400 available, many two beds down there are asking €2000 a month upwards. Google and Facebook alone employ 3,000 people. Accenture are there on the corner and employ several hundred, Linkedin are up the road and do similar, I could go on and on. In short there is thousands of people in that area working long long hours and getting paid high high wages and many of them want to live local.

Finally I know for a fact that there are a lot of Google employees in that building and the surrounding ones over at Charlotte Quay and Hannover Quay- I work in IT recruitment and see their CV's and addresses all the time. By the law of averages some of them are living in one bed apartments with their partner.