Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

Charlie69

unrealtime wrote: »

Tommy played all his early hurling for KK at right-full and he was absolutely outstanding there. He got his first Allstar there. I would have no hesitation in putting him in there now - at Jackie's expense.

A right side of Tommy and Padraig would have a lot going for it and could extend Tommy's career for a few more years.

Tommy actually started in midfield, played the 2003 final at LH forward, then went into the fullback line before eventually settling at number 5.

So you would move P Murphy out of The right corner?

Fwank wizzo

If I was OShea the 3 main areas I'd be looking to get at KK would be...

1.Keep the KK half back line out as far as they can and isolate Jackie&JJ.Play low fast out in front ball into their markers and get the 2 lads on the back foot.There are goals there.

2.Put a man marker on Richie Hogan.

3.Put Noel mcgrath between the midfield and the Tipp half back line and tell him to hit the aforementioned type of ball in to a proper 3 man full forward line.

tbiggertycome

A few other bits I observed in my pointless epic re-watching session (realdanbreen)

When it came to puck outs I only counted it as having been won by one side or the other when the first player had it in his hand. He could loose it a second latter but he had to have it in his hand for me to count it as a puck out won.

Tipp
From the air
11
Off the ground
14

Kilkenny
From the air
11
Off the ground
25

Kilkenny won 60% of puck outs with Tipp having 40%. So how did we end up having such close possession overall. Well we hit some aimless ball while in possession but also lost ball while soloing or in tackles which Tipp didn't, as they held onto the ball far better when they had it.

The biggest thing was Tipp had a 74% scoring conversion rate and Kilkenny had a 71% conversion rate. In scores just from play Tipp had a 78% shot conversion rate compared to Kilkennys 70% from play.

In most games I've taken stats at a 60% to 65% conversion rate of total scores will win you almost any game, and a 55% to 60% conversion rate from play will see you through. This is from both club and intercounty games it's not a scientific observation just a casual one. Also I've never seen a total conversion rate lower than the from play conversion rate. It just goes to show the unbelievable accuracy from the Tipp forwards. Can they reproduce it in two weeks? Well if we're to stand chance we need to apply more pressure to their forwards while their shooting. Callanan wasn't hooked blocked or tackled all day! Lar & N McGrath only once Bubbles & Bonnar were hooked blocked or tackled twice. Our defence needs to get closer another indication is we only fouled their forwards 4 times and we all said they would get the space Cork gave them (only one scorable free in semi final) we didn't close down the space enough in my opinion. Noel McGrath as I stated before had 23 possessions with a huge amount of good distribution we need to get tight on him and close down this supply, possibly a job for Buckley?

On the Kilkenny side we had 3 starting forwards that didn't get hooked blocked or tackled all day. Both R. Power and E. Larkin contributed a lot and both were fouled 2 and 3 times respectively, Larkin worked very hard, R. Power used his possession to set others up and often they didn't convert. I would like to see him go a bit for more himself. The other not to get dispossessed was Michael Fennelly who only had 9 possessions all day however he used 89% well. Walter and Colin were dispossessed once each but the guy who really needs to figure out whos around him is TJ he was tackled 4 times and dispossessed I don't think he was more closely watched than any of the others. The other one to take not of was Taggy who only possessed the ball 4 times but got blocked twice in 20 minutes. He was just too casual. The Kilkenny forwards got fouled 8 times which goes to show how tight the Tipp backs were on us. To score 3-22 with such little room was a fair feat from our lads.

Grats

More very interesting stats in last post. It was noticeable that our backs were standing off their opponents on the day. And your stats bear this out. Why was this from a team noted for close marking? Was it that Tipp had more pace? Was it that Tipp were allowed to over carry, as borne out from your previous post? Was it that our lads were a tad hesitant because of previous experiences with the ref? Well we gave a different ref for the replay and could very well have a different type game also.

1984baby

Has anyone from Kilkenny with a GAA season ticket got good seats for the replay??
So far I have only heard of people getting their tickets in section 302 and 309.

Lewi1995

1984baby wrote: »

Has anyone from Kilkenny with a GAA season ticket got good seats for the replay??
So far I have only heard of people getting their tickets in section 302 and 309.

Yes I got tickets yesterday . My tickets are for 309 . Anyone know why they have put season ticket holders in these areas ?

Realt Dearg Sec

Lewi1995 wrote: »

Yes I got tickets yesterday . My tickets are for 309 . Anyone know why they have put season ticket holders in these areas ?

I have a theory that I've been ranting about in the season ticket thread.

babyjesus14

So both Bonner (quad muscle) and Brendan (calf muscle) Maher both doubtful for the replay.

robbiezero

babyjesus14 wrote: »

So both Bonner (quad muscle) and Brendan (calf muscle) Maher both doubtful for the replay.

Where did you see that they are doubtful for the replay?

babyjesus14

robbiezero wrote: »

Where did you see that they are doubtful for the replay?

According to Paul Collins on Today FM this morning.

Realt Dearg Sec

babyjesus14 wrote: »

According to Paul Collins on Today FM this morning.

Would be terrible if they were out, to be honest, you want to see the best possible team out against you. Would severely dent the quality of the tipp team. Plus if Bonner and Paul Murphy were out then one of the highlights if the last day, their battle, won't be repeated. That would be a shame.

babyjesus14

1984baby wrote: »

Has anyone from Kilkenny with a GAA season ticket got good seats for the replay??
So far I have only heard of people getting their tickets in section 302 and 309.

I got 306 for the replay. Have had season ticket/3 year pass for years and that is by far the best ticket i got. Usually it has been Davin stand.

babyjesus14

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Would be terrible if they were out, to be honest, you want to see the best possible team out against you. Would severely dent the quality of the tipp team. Plus if Bonner and Paul Murphy were out then one of the highlights if the last day, their battle, won't be repeated. That would be a shame.

F*** that s****, all i want is for us to win i couldn't care less who they have out on the pitch. And Bonner and Brendan Maher not being there improves our chances. Doubt they lost any sleep over Brian Hogan and Henry Shefflin in '10?! That's sport.

adrian522

This is all nonsense, Murphy and both Mahers are all going to line out, no question.

Realt Dearg Sec

babyjesus14 wrote: »

F*** that s****, all i want is for us to win i couldn't care less who they have out on the pitch. And Bonner and Brendan Maher not being there improves our chances. Doubt they lost any sleep over Brian Hogan and Henry Shefflin in '10?! That's sport.

Well, we're seldom that ****ing lucky anyway.

babyjesus14

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Well, we're seldom that ****ing lucky anyway.

I would expect both of them to start!

MentalMario

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Well, we're seldom that ****ing lucky anyway.

You know times are changing when Kilkenny fans are hoping that opposition players are injured before a game.

greenspurs

let the rumours and counter rumors begin .......
Gwan Kilkenny !

babyjesus14

greenspurs wrote: »

let the rumours and counter rumors begin .......
Gwan Kilkenny !

They are not rumours both of them are unable to train but are expected to play!

realdanbreen

I saw Bubbles going into Supervalue in Borrisokane last night and his arm was in a sling.

Local_Chap

Anyone know when the draw for the Junior and Intermediate club championships are being made? I thought it would of been Monday night but nothing up on the website at the moment.

babyjesus14

realdanbreen wrote: »

I saw Bubbles going into Supervalue in Borrisokane last night and his arm was in a sling.

Now someone is being a silly billy!

adrian522

realdanbreen wrote: »

I saw Bubbles going into Supervalue in Borrisokane last night and his arm was in a sling.

What was he buying? I assume you informed him there is much better value to be had in your local German discount superstore of choice?

Hitchens

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/tipperary-preparations-hit-by-injuries-to-mahers-286977.html


It could be them, but everyone in Tipp is called Maher, so it might or might not be them

Fort Stranger

realdanbreen wrote: »

I saw Bubbles going into Supervalue in Borrisokane last night and his arm was in a sling.

Him and Callinan probably have sore backs as well from carrying ye all year 😉

Realt Dearg Sec

MentalMario wrote: »

You know times are changing when Kilkenny fans are hoping that opposition players are injured before a game.

Did you not read my other post, no? I specifically said I hope they play. Don't like tipp having handy excuses.

robbiezero

Fort Stranger wrote: »

Him and Callinan probably have sore backs as well from carrying ye all year 😉

Richie Hogan must be about ready to break in half so :-)

robbiezero

babyjesus14 wrote: »

According to Paul Collins on Today FM this morning.

Ah, thats ok so.

tbiggertycome

The one thing I've noticed is that Tipp fans have become a lot more confident and sure of themselves since the replay and I get the feeling they think they just have to turn up and do the same again and they'll beat us. However Kilkenny fans are all concerned with the need for improvement and change in order to get over the line. Now I'm sure the Tipp panel don't see it in such simple terms but the question has to be asked what can they do different if they don't get goals the next day? They have a very effective manner of playing they keep it relatively tight at the back and create space up front with lots of running. What if that space is not there the next day what is plan B for Tipp?

Kilkenny have to alter their style of play to win this one and thats good it gives us something to work towards this week and next. So if we come out and negate the space O'Shea tries to create and we stop the goals, what can or will they do? The way Tipp played the last day is the only way I can see them beating us but if we play in two banks of 3 in the backs and let the midfield and half forwards mark any extra forwards roaming out the field for long range points what can Tipp do? Without their space they will be in serious trouble.

dcrosskid

tbiggertycome wrote: »

The one thing I've noticed is that Tipp fans have become a lot more confident and sure of themselves since the replay and I get the feeling they think they just have to turn up and do the same again and they'll beat us. However Kilkenny fans are all concerned with the need for improvement and change in order to get over the line. Now I'm sure the Tipp panel don't see it in such simple terms but the question has to be asked what can they do different if they don't get goals the next day? They have a very effective manner of playing they keep it relatively tight at the back and create space up front with lots of running. What if that space is not there the next day what is plan B for Tipp?

Kilkenny have to alter their style of play to win this one and thats good it gives us something to work towards this week and next. So if we come out and negate the space O'Shea tries to create and we stop the goals, what can or will they do? The way Tipp played the last day is the only way I can see them beating us but if we play in two banks of 3 in the backs and let the midfield and half forwards mark any extra forwards roaming out the field for long range points what can Tipp do? Without their space they will be in serious trouble.

So you feel all Tipp fans are over confident and then proceed to tell us all Kilkenny fans are less so before finishing with "how can Tipp beat us". You couldn't make it up.:pac:

greenspurs

dcrosskid wrote: »

So you feel all Tipp fans are over confident and then proceed to tell us all Kilkenny fans are less so before finishing with "how can Tipp beat us". You couldn't make it up.:pac:

what about it dont you grasp ?
Its probably one of the the least "we're better than yee" posts on here .
Cocky Tipp fans trolling .....

robbiezero

tbiggertycome wrote: »

The one thing I've noticed is that Tipp fans have become a lot more confident and sure of themselves since the replay and I get the feeling they think they just have to turn up and do the same again and they'll beat us. However Kilkenny fans are all concerned with the need for improvement and change in order to get over the line. Now I'm sure the Tipp panel don't see it in such simple terms but the question has to be asked what can they do different if they don't get goals the next day? They have a very effective manner of playing they keep it relatively tight at the back and create space up front with lots of running. What if that space is not there the next day what is plan B for Tipp?

Kilkenny have to alter their style of play to win this one and thats good it gives us something to work towards this week and next. So if we come out and negate the space O'Shea tries to create and we stop the goals, what can or will they do? The way Tipp played the last day is the only way I can see them beating us but if we play in two banks of 3 in the backs and let the midfield and half forwards mark any extra forwards roaming out the field for long range points what can Tipp do? Without their space they will be in serious trouble.

Not concede poor goals. Paddy Stapleton had a decent game all round, but was caught badly by Power for 2 goals. I would fancy us to out-point Kilkenny again, so if we don't concede more goals than we score I think we have a great chance.
As a Tipp fan myself I am certainly not over-confident, nor do I see any reason for either team to be. I expect that Kilkenny may play a sweeper the next day to deny the Tipp forwards space. This of course would result in Tipp having an extra man in their defence also, but I would imagine Kilkenny would be confident of having the better "hard or high" ball winners in their forward line.

realdanbreen

tbiggertycome wrote: »

The one thing I've noticed is that Tipp fans have become a lot more confident and sure of themselves since the replay and I get the feeling they think they just have to turn up and do the same again and they'll beat us. However Kilkenny fans are all concerned with the need for improvement and change in order to get over the line. Now I'm sure the Tipp panel don't see it in such simple terms but the question has to be asked what can they do different if they don't get goals the next day? They have a very effective manner of playing they keep it relatively tight at the back and create space up front with lots of running. What if that space is not there the next day what is plan B for Tipp?

Kilkenny have to alter their style of play to win this one and thats good it gives us something to work towards this week and next. So if we come out and negate the space O'Shea tries to create and we stop the goals, what can or will they do? The way Tipp played the last day is the only way I can see them beating us but if we play in two banks of 3 in the backs and let the midfield and half forwards mark any extra forwards roaming out the field for long range points what can Tipp do? Without their space they will be in serious trouble.

As I said way back, Eamonn O'Shea is sitting back with the feet up, he knows his starting 15. Heading into October and Brian Cody still hasn't a notion which 15 to send out.

oconnol1

Are the clubs geting there tickets on Friday ?.

babyjesus14

realdanbreen wrote: »

As I said way back, Eamonn O'Shea is sitting back with the feet up, he knows his starting 15. Heading into October and Brian Cody still hasn't a notion which 15 to send out.

He hasn't done too bad so far Walsh Cup, League and Provincial champions! Remind me what Eamonn O'Shea has won?!

Realt Dearg Sec

realdanbreen wrote: »

As I said way back, Eamonn O'Shea is sitting back with the feet up, he knows his starting 15. Heading into October and Brian Cody still hasn't a notion which 15 to send out.

You say it like it's a bad thing? How is it bad to have players making the starting fifteen difficult to choose? If there's no competition fir places that's the beginning of the rot.

oconnol1

Are the training sessions closed for Kilkenny ATM.

tbiggertycome

dcrosskid wrote: »

So you feel all Tipp fans are over confident

No I didn't say over confident I said they're more confident I'm talking about the ones I know and have met which is quite a few every day in Kilkenny.

dcrosskid wrote: »

then proceed to tell us all Kilkenny fans are less so

Correct most Kilkenny people I know are less confident after seeing the display the last day and know it need's improvement.

dcrosskid wrote: »

before finishing with "how can Tipp beat us".

If we close down the space and there is no guarantee that Cody will do that but if he does close the space and you can't get goals what other way can you play the game? In a physical tight game your lads don't like it although they've shown a lot more character than I or many Tipp people gave them credit for.

dcrosskid wrote: »

You couldn't make it up.:pac:

You pretty much did. Read more carefully next time!

randd1

realdanbreen wrote: »

As I said way back, Eamonn O'Shea is sitting back with the feet up, he knows his starting 15. Heading into October and Brian Cody still hasn't a notion which 15 to send out.

I'd imagine O'Sheas a bit more worried than Cody is seeing as he got everything out of his players, they were the better side pretty much the entire game, scored 29 times with only 3 wides, dominated midfield and in their HB line, and still didn't beat a Kilkenny side that you could say 6 players did not play that good at all.

Cody knows Kilkenny can improve, I'm not sure Tipp can though, that was easily Tipps best performance since 2010, yet they still couldn't beat Kilkenny.

tbiggertycome

realdanbreen wrote: »

As I said way back, Eamonn O'Shea is sitting back with the feet up, he knows his starting 15. Heading into October and Brian Cody still hasn't a notion which 15 to send out.

Yes but my question is what if plan A fails. Do Tipp have plan B? Personally I don't think they can play effectively enough any other way that could beat Kilkenny. If it gets tight and physical would you think the Tipp forwards would score the same?

tbiggertycome

oconnol1 wrote: »

Are the training sessions closed for Kilkenny ATM.

Yep a few sessions may be open next week as per usual but their a send off rather than a proper session.

robbiezero

randd1 wrote: »

I'd imagine O'Sheas a bit more worried than Cody is seeing as he got everything out of his players, they were the better side pretty much the entire game, scored 29 times with only 3 wides, dominated midfield and in their HB line, and still didn't beat a Kilkenny side that you could say 6 players did not play that good at all.

Cody knows Kilkenny can improve, I'm not sure Tipp can though, that was easily Tipps best performance since 2010, yet they still couldn't beat Kilkenny.

The only thing about about that is that Kilkennys marquee players by a mile this year, Reid and Hogan both played well, spectacularly so in Hogan's case, Larkin got through his usual work load also. Also Richie Power was excellent. Might be more to come from the two Fennellys, but also maybe not. Colin Fennelly can be quite inconsistent so much so he was actually dropped in 2012 after being cleaned out by Coen. Walter Walsh is unlikely to start and I think it would be fair to say a slight improvement at the very least would be expected here although Barrett has not been anywhere second best to any forward this year.

Paul Murphy, JJ and Tyrell were probably as good as they could have been, Murphy in goal also, Buckley too. Can't see Hogan or Holden improving that much, will probably take a change of personnel here to see any improvement.

tbiggertycome

oconnol1 wrote: »

Are the clubs geting there tickets on Friday ?.

I think the Boro are getting there's this weekend they took orders last weekend. Giving them out Monday or Tuesday each club will be different though.

dcrosskid

tbiggertycome wrote: »

No I didn't say over confident I said they're more confident I'm talking about the ones I know and have met which is quite a few every day in Kilkenny.


Correct most Kilkenny people I know are less confident after seeing the display the last day and know it need's improvement.


If we close down the space and there is no guarantee that Cody will do that but if he does close the space and you can't get goals what other way can you play the game? In a physical tight game your lads don't like it although they've shown a lot more character than I or many Tipp people gave them credit for.


You pretty much did. Read more carefully next time!

This thread is littered with the same argument about Tipp having less room to improve. Paddy Saint, Brendan Maher, James Barry, Darren Gleeson, Gar Ryan all have more in them and collectively Tipp can improve on the goal chances. Not to mention we can definitely aim to curb Richie Hogans and TJ Reids influence. I also think we can make better substitutions than the last day with Denis Maher instead of Kelly and Niall O Meara back from injury. Cahill could come in from the start which can only be a positive for Tipp.

Saying ye will close down the space and actually closing down the space is a lot easier said than done. Croke Park seems to suit our style of play and our forwards seem to thrive there. How do you suggest KK will close down the space? I imagine pulling an extra man back is the obvious solution but this takes from the kk forward line and I think would suit us more if anything giving us a chance to shoot from distance which we seem capable of and also ensuring we have an extra man in defense which you would think would stop the KK goal chances being created.

unrealtime

it is a fallacy to say Tipp were the better side for pretty much the entire game. Fact is that for 40 minutes in the middle we scored 3-11 to Tipp's 10 points and Power should have tapped over for 3-12.

Tipp started the game very well and finished it with a huge number of points in the last 10 minutes or so. At that time we really should have closed the game out but our forwards had lost their legs and found it hard to compete for ball and our backs made bad defensive errors. A similar performance the next day with a bit more puff, one or two changes and a different ref, should do it for us.

tbiggertycome

dcrosskid wrote: »

This thread is littered with the same argument about Tipp having less room to improve. Paddy Saint, Brendan Maher, James Barry, Darren Gleeson, Gar Ryan all have more in them and collectively Tipp can improve on the goal chances. Not to mention we can definitely aim to curb Richie Hogans and TJ Reids influence. I also think we can make better substitutions than the last day with Denis Maher instead of Kelly and Niall O Meara back from injury. Cahill could come in from the start which can only be a positive for Tipp.

Saying ye will close down the space and actually closing down the space is a lot easier said than done. Croke Park seems to suit our style of play and our forwards seem to thrive there. How do you suggest KK will close down the space? I imagine pulling an extra man back is the obvious solution but this takes from the kk forward line and I think would suit us more if anything giving us a chance to shoot from distance which we seem capable of and also ensuring we have an extra man in defense which you would think would stop the KK goal chances being created.

Thank you for actually coming up with cohesive argument, a fine post btw.

On your points:

Paddy Stapleton or Saint as ye like to call him actually hurled quite well and was very effective, if lucky not to have seen the line or at least been penalised more. He played very close to the line and over it on many occasions. If he can hurl rather foul I don't think there is a whole lot more improvement in him.

Brendan Maher was by and away Tipps poorest performer, thankfully for us. He was anonymous most of the day and only had 5 possessions if memory of my stats serves me right and actually had fairly mediocre use of the limited ball he had. So there is lots of room for improvement there, no doubt at all.

James Barry played a great game for ye even if we did get 3 goals. It would have been a lot more without him. He didn't dominate the box completely but I don't think he's that type of player. I don't see how he can play much better making 3 blocks for certain Kilkenny scores.

Darren Gleeson again was very solid I thought. There was very little blame to be apportioned to him for any of the 3 goals maybe the first 1 but he tried to do everything right, Power just got there first. There was only 2 issues I'd have with his performance. 1st while he delivered great puck outs all day, two went out for sidelines to Kilkenny. 2nd he was very lucky to get away with his tackle on Larkin but if it was a reverse situation I'd want to see Murphy do the same and hopefully get away with it too.

Gearoid Ryan while far from spectacular contributed more than I thought he had but he was in against Buckley for most of the day and did well enough. I do however agree there is scope for improvement from him.

Micky Cahill has to start for ye in my opinion but who looses out Brendan Maher the captain? Unlikely unless the injury proves worse than feared. The lads in midfield were very strong as well. If everyone is fit I think Cahill will be picked on the bench but he's a brilliant option to bring in, like the last day.

Like you said I wouldn't let Eoin Kelly within an asses roar of the white lines in Croke park.

It's not easy to close the space as O'Shea works it very well. I feel we need to have 2 banks of 3, with the half backs not straying much beyond the 45 yard line. The midfield and half forwards will need to cover any of your lads roaming out for long shots but our back 6 can't chase ye around again. Ye kept it tight at the back most of the time and we need to do like wise if we do it'll be a very different game because you'll have two defences on top and it'll be much more like our game against Limerick.

My question is not weather Tipp can improve, I agree they can. I might not agree to the extent but they definitely can and most likely will. My question is how will they react if they're faced with a different type of game can they adapt? We know Kilkenny can play open and loose and hard and tight. Tipp can definitely play open and loose and are brilliant at it but can they play hard and tight? All commentators agreed if Kilkenny made it a battle they'd win. They didn't play that way they followed ye're lads all over the field. If we do that again I think ye will win being honest but if it's tight we should do it.

ozzyo

I have 2 tickets to the hurling replay that I want to swap for football tickets, anyone know of any clubs that would want to swap?

tbiggertycome

I've created this map and posted it on Kilkennycats.com as segments of a few clubs at a time. Here is the full map of the clubs in the county.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z7KQie8OKWxU.kHw1Gk66OlwI

If anyone spots anywhere I'm wrong please let me know and I'll rectify.

Realt Dearg Sec

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I've created this map and posted it on Kilkennycats.com as segments of a few clubs at a time. Here is the full map of the clubs in the county.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z7KQie8OKWxU.kHw1Gk66OlwI

If anyone spots anywhere I'm wrong please let me know and I'll rectify.

Jaysus, Kilkennycats and these maps! that takes me back lad! Thanks

Southern Belle

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Jaysus, Kilkennycats and these maps! that takes me back lad! Thanks

Ha! Just thinking the same thing. I think I put in my tuppence worth a few years ago!