Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

citykat

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah, and to be honest I don't find unreasonable. The only one that has been pointed out is the Shane McGrath one, which was correctly awarded as a Tipp free. I think where CityKat got confused is that both McGrath and Hogan where attacking, but Shane McGrath runs out and doesn't change his body position and is met with a shoulder. Both times the Kilkenny man was the one that meant his direct opponent with his shoulder.

So those two instances are actually, ironically, an example of consistency on Barry Kelly's part.

Well I took the time to relook at both instances again and for me there is no difference between the two. If Hogan was charging so was McGrath. If Fogarty lead with the shoulder so did Maher. Btw Tipp friends? Sounds like there might be a hint of bias there.

Mountainlad

citykat wrote: »

Well I took the time to relook at both instances again and for me there is no difference between the two. If Hogan was charging so was McGrath. If Fogarty lead with the shoulder so did Maher. Btw Tipp friends? Sounds like there might be a hint of bias there.

Yeah we both have a Dublin/Barry Kelly bias

peakedatU12

Lads,

Just wondering what you make of Indo Hurling Team of the Year. (cant post link, sorry).
I let them know what I thought of their analysis of the Hurling Year and they deleted my post straight away!

realdanbreen

Whatever ye might say about Barry Kelly at leas he kept control the first day and contributed to a magnificent match. Gavin OTOH allowed saturdays match descend into pulling and dragging and holding all of which went unpunished. It was farcical at times and pretty much became a lottery as to who might win it. You would never get 82K in to watch that sort of hurling if Gavin refs next years final.

Hitchens

realdanbreen wrote: »

You would never get 82K in to watch that sort of hurling if Gavin refs next years final.

ah, I dunno Dan, sure Henry picking up the 11th might bring 'em in :P

citykat

realdanbreen wrote: »

pulling and dragging and holding all of which went unpunished.

I agree. Maher should have got the line for that act on Fennelly

Justice for the individual

Kilkenny were really up for this game and Tipperary were no match for Kilkenny when they upped the intensity in the second half. This time the smaller, lighter Tipp backs were sent backwards in the tackle, and were hitting the ball with no direction, which gave their forwards no chance. A lot of the Tipp players were unable to handle the close physical attention and bottled it a little. You could see Lar standing back from the rucks hoping for a loose ball. Callinan's first goal came from such a situation, when Lar latched on to a ball and overlapped with him. That was the only time Lar got loose, and he contributed nothing after that. Callinan's second goal appeared to be a deflection, and it found him unmarked on the edge of the square. These two goals came against the run of play and flattered Tipp's score. When you look at the game again, Kilkenny should have won by 10/12 points. If you consider that TJ and Richie were below par by their own standards, this may explain why the winning margin was only 3 points - a scant reward for a trully awesome defensive display by the Kilkenny backs who reduced the Tipp forwards to scraps and dirty ball for all of the second half.

We have to offer this Kilkenny team and Brian our appreciation for the pleasure of witnessing once again a continuance of this golden period of Kilkenny hurling dominance achieved in a skillful and manly fashion - thanks guys.

Hitchens

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Kilkenny were really up for this game and Tipperary were no match for Kilkenny when they upped the intensity in the second half. This time the smaller, lighter Tipp backs were sent backwards in the tackle, and were hitting the ball with no direction, which gave their forwards no chance. A lot of the Tipp players were unable to handle the close physical attention and bottled it a little. You could see Lar standing back from the rucks hoping for a loose ball. Callinan's first goal came from such a situation, when Lar latched on to a ball and overlapped with him. That was the only time Lar got loose, and he contributed nothing after that. Callinan's second goal appeared to be deflection, and it found him unmarked on the edge of the square. These two goals came against the run of play and flattered Tipp's score. When you look at the game again, Kilkenny should have won by 10/12 points. If you consider that TJ and Richie were below par by their own standards, this may explain why the winning margin was only 3 points - a scant reward for a trully awesome defensive display by the Kilkenny backs who reduced the Tipp forwards to scraps and dirty ball for all of the second half.

We have to offer this Kilkenny team and Brian our appreciation for the pleasure of witnessing once again a continuance of this golden period of Kilkenny hurling dominance achieved in a skillful and manly fashion - thanks guys.

...and at the time the ref blew the final whistle the lads were heading up for another score

ellinguistico

So it turns out Lester hasn't a word of Irish!

Hitchens

is Lar fouling here or is he saying "ah well done, well done" ?

fed up sick and tired

ellinguistico wrote: »

So it turns out Lester hasn't a word of Irish!

I think that's why Cody was reacting to the speech with such delight. Even Enda couldn't believe what he was hearing, you could see him looking over Lester's shoulder looking for the notes.

I know someone else here says he's a fluent Irish teacher, but I don't think so going on that performance.

Plus I thought I picked it up from the TG4 coverage that he doesn't speak Irish.

dirtyden

savannahkat wrote: »

Barry Kelly does have an anti Kilkenny bias and it makes no difference if Mountain lad believes so or not, for Mountain lad has his own anti Kilkenny bias which I have pointed out in previous posts including his posting of the John Dalton video to prove that Kilkenny are a dirty team which he gleefully posted on another forum. Mountain lad claims to be a neutral from Waterford (not the best basis for claiming to be a neutral as far as Kilkenny are concerned) while at the same time falling back on his Tipp relatives when he wants to show how much he knows, loves and admires Tipp. The awarding of a free to Galway for a dive to draw an all Ireland final and deprive Kilkenny of a deserved win on day one, the awarding of a free to Tipp which was never a free and offer them a pot shot to win an all Ireland at Kilkenny expense and forcing us to play Cork with 14 men for an entire second half ( Henry sent of and the card subsequently rescinded)which more than likely cost us the game is simply disgraceful and a shocking standard of acceptable refereeing and for it to happen three years in a row, one would need to be blind or blinkered not to legitimately question it, and seriously question it. Brian Cody has rightly done so.
As one of the Kilkenny posters banned for making similar statements earlier I fully expect to be banned again but as far as i am concerned Mountain lad is about as neutral as the Gestapo were in WW2.
Last Sundays win was a magnificent win and probably the one we least expected at the start of the year. Conor Fogarty, Padraigh Walsh, John Power, Mark Kelly, Joey Holden, Brian Kennedy, Jonjo Farrell names barely known all played their part and it is a magnificent display of management to get us this win.

You do know Kilkenny won the all-Ireland? Why all the anger over some fairly tame discussion. It's fairly reasonable that there is some debate over the treatment of Barry Kelly. It is pretty much unprecedented for a hurling referee to have his integrity questioned so openly by fans, former players and now the manager of the all Ireland winning team.

Your so full of anger you even Godwinned a Kilkenny hurling thread 2 days after ye won.

Justice for the individual

Hitchens wrote: »

is Lar fouling here or is he saying "ah well done, well done" ?

"Nice helmet Richie"

Philip82

Hope somebody starts a " Lets bitch about referees" thread soon because this thread is turning into a joke now. As a proud KK man I am enjoying our success at county level and cant wait for our club hurling to get going again. This year is done and dusted and ours to enjoy again so maybe we should leave the whinging and crying to those who have won nothing this year.

ellinguistico

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

I think that's why Cody was reacting to the speech with such delight. Even Enda couldn't believe what he was hearing, you could see him looking over Lester's shoulder looking for the notes.

I know someone else here says he's a fluent Irish teacher, but I don't think so going on that performance.

Plus I thought I picked it up from the TG4 coverage that he doesn't speak Irish.

Yep, just heard an interview with him on the 2FM GAA show and he admitted that a Brother in Callan wrote what he wanted to say and he learned it phonetically in the few days after the Limerick match. Brilliant.

pmy.murphy

Ive never been one to slate referees as I appreciate they all make mistakes but as far as Im concerned I think Barry Kelly is a very poor referee, he is just consistently poor. I may be called biased here but the evidence suggests it. Whether Kilkenny are playing or not, he just always seems to have at least one brainfart per game. He doesnt seem to grasp the fact that hurling is a mans game either

Brian Codys rant may have been mistimed and because of that it makes him look petty but he made some very good points.

One is the free against Brian Hogan certainly should not have stood. It was not a free either way in my opinion and play should been left go. If it was ever a free it marginally in our favour than Tipps but it wasnt a free either way at all.

Every referee makes mistakes as I say and a lot receive some unfair criticism but Barry Kelly is just consistently poor and the mistakes he makes seems to be fatal or almost for the teams involved. Brian Gavin may have made his own mistakes but with the on the edge style that both teams use, a lot of pulling, dragging tends to go unnoticed and is done on the sly and isnt exactly the refs fault. He made the odd dodgy call but I ultimately think his style of refereeing is how hurling should be reffed. Thats not to say hes immune to criticism either

Anyway rant over and lets get back to the clubs because its all getting very silly now

savannahkat

dirtyden wrote: »

You do know Kilkenny won the all-Ireland? Why all the anger over some fairly tame discussion. It's fairly reasonable that there is some debate over the treatment of Barry Kelly. It is pretty much unprecedented for a hurling referee to have his integrity questioned so openly by fans, former players and now the manager of the all Ireland winning team.

Your so full of anger you even Godwinned a Kilkenny hurling thread 2 days after ye won.

Did Barry Kelly give or not give a free to Galway to allow them to draw the match after a Galway player blatantly dived in the 2012 All Ireland final.Did he or did he not send off Henry Shefflin in the first half against Cork a sending off that was subsequently deemed to be void and which more than likely contributed in no small way to Kilkenny losing that game. Did he or did he not give Tipperary a free to win this years All Ireland that was no way a free to them. If Tipp had scored how fair would that have been to every neutral never mind a Kilkenny fan or player. It is not the refs job to decide who or who should not win the All Ireland but he has tried his best to influence the final score. That is not right and could very well have cost Kilkenny two if not three All Irelands. That we still won is despite him and of course we have a right to be angry. A few inches is all that saved Kilkenny in the first game a few inches that very well could have cost Henry his 10th medal and John Power his first. Of course we have a right to be angry at such decisions and so would any one from any other county if you were on the receiving end. The players above all deserve better than to have their whole season ruined by such blatantly poor decisions.

The growler

savannahkat wrote: »

Did Barry Kelly give or not give a free to Galway to allow them to draw the match after a Galway player blatantly dived in the 2012 All Ireland final.Did he or did he not send off Henry Shefflin in the first half against Cork a sending off that was subsequently deemed to be void and which more than likely contributed in no small way to Kilkenny losing that game. Did he or did he not give Tipperary a free to win this years All Ireland that was no way a free to them. If Tipp had scored how fair would that have been to every neutral never mind a Kilkenny fan or player. It is not the refs job to decide who or who should not win the All Ireland but he has tried his best to influence the final score. That is not right and could very well have cost Kilkenny two if not three All Irelands. That we still won is despite him and of course we have a right to be angry. A few inches is all that saved Kilkenny in the first game a few inches that very well could have cost Henry his 10th medal and John Power his first. Of course we have a right to be angry at such decisions and so would any one from any other county if you were on the receiving end. The players above all deserve better than to have their whole season ruined by such blatantly poor decisions.

I could understand the moaning a bit more if Kilkenny had lost all the games you refer to. In fact they only lost one of them and probably wouldn't have won that game anyway. People are entitled to question Cody's and Eddie Brennan's public undermining of the referee. Remember Cody didn't want to discuss the referee after the 2009 final? How interesting. As I've said previously on this thread I don't begrudge Kilkenny the win but ye seriously need to get over Barry Kelly. Ye are the All Ireland champs ffs!

Justice for the individual

savannahkat wrote: »

Did Barry Kelly give or not give a free to Galway to allow them to draw the match after a Galway player blatantly dived in the 2012 All Ireland final.Did he or did he not send off Henry Shefflin in the first half against Cork a sending off that was subsequently deemed to be void and which more than likely contributed in no small way to Kilkenny losing that game. Did he or did he not give Tipperary a free to win this years All Ireland that was no way a free to them. If Tipp had scored how fair would that have been to every neutral never mind a Kilkenny fan or player. It is not the refs job to decide who or who should not win the All Ireland but he has tried his best to influence the final score. That is not right and could very well have cost Kilkenny two if not three All Irelands. That we still won is despite him and of course we have a right to be angry. A few inches is all that saved Kilkenny in the first game a few inches that very well could have cost Henry his 10th medal and John Power his first. Of course we have a right to be angry at such decisions and so would any one from any other county if you were on the receiving end. The players above all deserve better than to have their whole season ruined by such blatantly poor decisions.

Also, no team would really want to win a tainted All-Ireland. A Tipp guy on another forum said that the free to Tipperary (in the drawn game) was wrong, and he did want Tipp to win if any bias was shown, but to win it fair and square on the field of play.

That was an honest admission by a Tipp suporter and genuine hurling man who is not afraid to call things as he sees it.

At this stage we should ignore the non Kilkenny negative comments and enjoy the after-match winning glow of being top dog (or cat) again. This win will give a lift to all in Kilkenny and help to shorten the Winter.

merryberry

The growler wrote: »

...Cody's and Eddie Brennan's public undermining of the referee.

but I think Eddie should take a leaf out of Codys book and publicly air grievances after the victory:D:D #SundayGameNoShow

Justice for the individual

ellinguistico wrote: »

So it turns out Lester hasn't a word of Irish!

He knows a few now, and we heard him speak it on the podium after the AI.

piuswal

ellinguistico wrote: »

Yep, just heard an interview with him on the 2FM GAA show and he admitted that a Brother in Callan wrote what he wanted to say and he learned it phonetically in the few days after the Limerick match. Brilliant.

Absolutely. That's been the only thing missing in 35 winning All -Irelands. An acceptance speech in Irish.

Well done Lester; bhi sin ar fheabhas

Grats

Wonderful celebrations all over County Kilkenny following our great win in Saturday. What a turn out in Nowlan Park and the reception for Henry and Brian Cody was just brilliant. The Minors got their delayed homecoming also and a well deserved one at that.

A brilliant year for Kilkenny hurling. Senior, minor, colleges, under 14 titles all in the bag. The future is indeed bright.

Really looking forward to the club scene which gets back up and running next weekend.

Great to be a Kilkenny hurling follower.

mrhat

The growler wrote: »

I could understand the moaning a bit more if Kilkenny had lost all the games you refer to. In fact they only lost one of them and probably wouldn't have won that game anyway. People are entitled to question Cody's and Eddie Brennan's public undermining of the referee. Remember Cody didn't want to discuss the referee after the 2009 final? How interesting. As I've said previously on this thread I don't begrudge Kilkenny the win but ye seriously need to get over Barry Kelly. Ye are the All Ireland champs ffs!

To be fair most of the comments from KK posters re Barry Kelly have been in response (defensively) to other posters whinging about Cody/Brennan. Mainly in response to that mountainland guy who may be a wind up merchant. Although everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Anyhow, as you say KK are AI champs, a very hard fought battle over a fantastic Tipp team. It's been a season to savour. Lim & Wex for me epitomised grit & honesty of effort. I for one cannot wait for the championship draw 2015.

So let's forget this referee malarchy & enjoy the aftermath of victory no. 35. And let's not forget the impending club championship, plenty to mull over yet...

Fwank wizzo

Anybody know or care to guess what ex-players/greats/so called greats Cody was refering to in his interview?
I can't recall any our own lads being critical.Maybe I missed something

ifah

Justice for the individual wrote: »

"Nice helmet Richie"

"Let go of my jersey ?"

bruschi

I find it funny that there would be no talk of referees or Barry Kelly if it wasnt for Cody, it wasnt us non Kilkenny folk who are jealous and haters and WUMS and whatever other names you want to call me and others, it was Cody who started this.

And that was my point. Why bring it up? Why go to the media in the close aftermath of an AI win and slate the ref from a game 3 weeks prior. I know its far from the first time Cody has slated a ref, in fairness, he does it the whole time, despite others above saying he bites his tongue. Its a calculated gameplan he uses, make an issue over refereeing in the weeks leading to a game and try get into their heads, as well as the heads of the opposition. Its just a tactic used to try maximise every advantage possible.

This was different though. There was no need for it, and it was petty in the extreme. If that makes me a Kilkenny hater or some sort WUM, then so be it. Cody couldnt give a crap to what some anonymous person on the internet says, its just my opinion that he would be better off enjoying the win (which he obviously is) rather than berating a referee from a previous game and further putting him under the spotlight and creating an agenda against him.

As I already said, Cody is by far the best manager to have ever graced the game. He has a win at all costs mentality, and a knack to see things and change things to make the most of every opportunity. He is a brilliant manager, its just I feel that this was not necessary and tarnished him, IMO. It'll be forgotten about soon enough, and he will be rightly remembered how he should be, as the most successful manager ever. He himself had a brilliant game on Saturday, and should be congratulated for making the changes necessary which all worked perfectly. He got it spot on.

But he didnt get those comments spot on, and they were completely unnecessary. Being the best manager ever doesnt absolve him from criticism, and he should be criticised for what he said.

fed up sick and tired

The growler wrote: »

I could understand the moaning a bit more if Kilkenny had lost all the games you refer to. In fact they only lost one of them and probably wouldn't have won that game anyway. People are entitled to question Cody's and Eddie Brennan's public undermining of the referee. Remember Cody didn't want to discuss the referee after the 2009 final? How interesting. As I've said previously on this thread I don't begrudge Kilkenny the win but ye seriously need to get over Barry Kelly. Ye are the All Ireland champs ffs!

Players and supporters, at all levels, have a right to be treated fairly. When they are not, they too are "entitled to question."

There is a principle involved here, and the fact that we won doesn't make it alright that other agendas may have thwarted that.

Do you know the difference between right and wrong ?

Realt Dearg Sec

I heard there was a match played on Saturday, how did people think it went?

bruschi

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I heard there was a match played on Saturday, how did people think it went?

The referee was good

I'm done anyway, apologies for annoying you and some of the others here.

Grats

The replay of the Intermediate knockout game between Emeralds and Gowran is on next Sunday. The drawn match was a very entertaining one and the draw was a fair result. Kilkenny panel player Michael Walsh from Gowran went off injured the last day and won't be available for the replay. A big loss for Gowran.

KK4life

Lads, this is all getting a bit tiresome now. I will never understand how a free was given against Hogan.

But can people get over Cody's comments. Christ, I have even heard calls for him to resign over it. Do people not realise that journalists ask questions? Do ye think he stopped a journalist on the side of the street to have his say? Nobody knows what question he was asked. Give the man the benefit of the doubt and presume he answered with his honest opinion. People give out about him in interviews accusing him of not really saying anything and now he shouldn't be saying anything.

Maybe he was tired and emotional also!!

Rega

KK4life wrote: »

Lads, this is all getting a bit tiresome now. I will never understand how a free was given against Hogan.

But can people get over Cody's comments. Christ, I have even heard calls for him to resign over it. Do people not realise that journalists ask questions? Do ye think he stopped a journalist on the side of the street to have his say? Nobody knows what question he was asked. Give the man the benefit of the doubt and presume he answered with his honest opinion. People give out about him in interviews accusing him of not really saying anything and now he shouldn't be saying anything.

Maybe he was tired and emotional also!!

Here you go.

Q: Was Saturday’s game better?
BC: “It is simple for me to say that now because we won. The last game was an outstanding game, there is no doubt about that, but I would say for either team to concede as much as was conceded the last day would not be what either team would be hoping to do. Obviously, you would love to score as much but the strange thing was that both teams scored the same and it was as if they had scored and missed more than we had and I didn’t think so. Also, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, [repeated] they were handed an opportunity [by referee Barry Kelly] with the last puck of the game the last day in the wrong to win the game. You are nodding your head now, so you agree. They were handed an opportunity by a complete wrong decision. We didn’t speak about it the last day but it was criminal what was done the last day. And people can say that I am whingeing and moaning all they like but I am telling the truth here.”
Q: Did you think it was a free the other way?
BC: “If he had said ‘play on’ I would have said fair enough. I could say maybe it might have been a free for us. If the ball broke and they put it over the bar fair enough but you don’t hand a team a free puck and say, ‘lads, there you go’. It was like that.”



http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/cody-puts-referee-kelly-and-former-kilkenny-greats-in-his-crosshairs-289094.html

KK4life

Rega wrote: »

Here you go.

Q: Was Saturday’s game better?
BC: “It is simple for me to say that now because we won. The last game was an outstanding game, there is no doubt about that, but I would say for either team to concede as much as was conceded the last day would not be what either team would be hoping to do. Obviously, you would love to score as much but the strange thing was that both teams scored the same and it was as if they had scored and missed more than we had and I didn’t think so. Also, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, [repeated] they were handed an opportunity [by referee Barry Kelly] with the last puck of the game the last day in the wrong to win the game. You are nodding your head now, so you agree. They were handed an opportunity by a complete wrong decision. We didn’t speak about it the last day but it was criminal what was done the last day. And people can say that I am whingeing and moaning all they like but I am telling the truth here.”
Q: Did you think it was a free the other way?
BC: “If he had said ‘play on’ I would have said fair enough. I could say maybe it might have been a free for us. If the ball broke and they put it over the bar fair enough but you don’t hand a team a free puck and say, ‘lads, there you go’. It was like that.”

Ok I hadn't seen that article and had read about it on other media.

I actually feel that the examiner version reads a lot better and is not near as bad as the other. It is a clear transcript and is not sensationalised. He was asked if he thought Saturdays game was better and he answered using the comparison of the drawn match. I think he may have been making a point that people were saying Kilkenny were not as good as Tipp after the drawn game but both scored the same so that they had to be as good as each other. He simply stated that the decision was wrong (which was his belief and I'm sure said with conviction) and it could have had a massive bearing on things. Look he always talks with conviction, that's not going to change.

I do feel it may have been a little ill-judged but we all get carried away a bit at times

IrishAlice

KK4life wrote: »

Ok I hadn't seen that article and had read about it on other media.

I actually feel that the examiner version reads a lot better and is not near as bad as the other. It is a clear transcript and is not sensationalised. He was asked if he thought Saturdays game was better and he answered using the comparison of the drawn match. I think he may have been making a point that people were saying Kilkenny were not as good as Tipp after the drawn game but both scored the same so that they had to be as good as each other. He simply stated that the decision was wrong (which was his belief and I'm sure said with conviction) and it could have had a massive bearing on things. Look he always talks with conviction, that's not going to change.

I do feel it may have been a little ill-judged but we all get carried away a bit at times

+1

It comes across differently when you see the transcript of what was said.

TBH I'm disgusted with the Independent - they completely sensationalised the whole thing and now have an article online today saying that he may face disciplinary action and have absolutely no info to back that up.

Add to that Mullane's ridiculous dig at Cody the week before the match because the players who are still on the team didn't go to the reception for the Liberty 15 for 15 team and that they picked only 5 Kilkenny players for their team of the year!!!

Absolute rag of a paper! Rant Over!

dcrosskid

Congratulations to Kilkenny, the better team on the day. I can't help thinking back on the missed goal opportunities in the first half as huge factors against us but in the end we were not good enough.

As much as Cody gets under my skin he is a phenomenal manager, his record is astonishing really and once again he proved on Saturday why he is the best in the business. He nullified Bonner and crowded our attack. I think O shea was a bit naive on the sideline and Cahill should have been on much earlier.

The remarks about the Barry Kelly were unnecessary and a small bit disappointing tbh

ellinguistico

Fwank wizzo wrote: »

Anybody know or care to guess what ex-players/greats/so called greats Cody was refering to in his interview?
I can't recall any our own lads being critical.Maybe I missed something

Well the only ex KK players who speak to the media (nationally) are:
Eddie Brennan
Eddie O'Connor (Willie does too?)
Andy Comerford
Martin Comerford
Mick Kavanagh
Charlie Carter

He supposedly scoffed at the "former greats" bit when he said it and rolled the eyes so obviously he's a bit scorpy about whatever was said. He was tough going enough was Brian this year. Got the job done possibly better than ever before though

Realt Dearg Sec

ellinguistico wrote: »

Well the only ex KK players who speak to the media (nationally) are:
Eddie Brennan
Eddie O'Connor (Willie does too?)
Andy Comerford
Martin Comerford
Mick Kavanagh
Charlie Carter

He supposedly scoffed at the "former greats" bit when he said it and rolled the eyes so obviously he's a bit scorpy about whatever was said. He was tough going enough was Brian this year. Got the job done possibly better than ever before though

I never heard any of those players make a bad comment or a doubting word about the team this year. Maybe they did, but when he seems to be scoffing and rolling his eyes about "so-called greats" it leaves a bad taste. Those are all players who soldiered for him for years, I don't think there's any need to be belittling anyone. Of course he didn't name who he meant, and in all probability it was nobody in particular, it's just the siege mentality that a team always has to buy into, including himself.

Or he could be talking about Charlie Carter, which is the most likely. But I don't remember Charlie saying anything bad, does he still write the column?

pmy.murphy

And where are you gone now Tommy Conlon with your "introverted county" article? Safe to say hes gone back under his rock until the next opportunity to dig the knife into us. Makes me sick how such puke could have been published in a national newspaper almost 12 months ago now. Makes winning the All Ireland that bit sweeter...... http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/quickdraw-artists-help-to-restore-national-treasure-29637633.html

shamco

realdanbreen wrote: »

Whatever ye might say about Barry Kelly at leas he kept control the first day and contributed to a magnificent match. Gavin OTOH allowed saturdays match descend into pulling and dragging and holding all of which went unpunished. It was farcical at times and pretty much became a lottery as to who might win it. You would never get 82K in to watch that sort of hurling if Gavin refs next years final.

KK turning into the Donegal of hurling. Playing 10 defenders for most of the match. What about the great tradition in KK

eoinfitzokk

IrishAlice wrote: »

+1

It comes across differently when you see the transcript of what was said.

TBH I'm disgusted with the Independent - they completely sensationalised the whole thing and now have an article online today saying that he may face disciplinary action and have absolutely no info to back that up.

Add to that Mullane's ridiculous dig at Cody the week before the match because the players who are still on the team didn't go to the reception for the Liberty 15 for 15 team and that they picked only 5 Kilkenny players for their team of the year!!!

Absolute rag of a paper! Rant Over!

Agreed, Colm Keys added lashings of the Indo fairy dust to churn that out

ellinguistico

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I never heard any of those players make a bad comment or a doubting word about the team this year. Maybe they did, but when he seems to be scoffing and rolling his eyes about "so-called greats" it leaves a bad taste. Those are all players who soldiered for him for years, I don't think there's any need to be belittling anyone. Of course he didn't name who he meant, and in all probability it was nobody in particular, it's just the siege mentality that a team always has to buy into, including himself.

Or he could be talking about Charlie Carter, which is the most likely. But I don't remember Charlie saying anything bad, does he still write the column?

Yeah you are probably right. I can't remember anyone saying anything controversial either unless you include people saying shefflin could have got longer the first day.
The actual transcript of what he said which the examiner has published has shown everything to be not as bad as it is being made out to be.
I'd imagine the amount of media work you have to get through from the semi-finals on (especially with a replay) would be almost as difficult as winning the thing itself. Insane the amount of media coverage and interviews required, and it seems to be getting bigger every year.

Justice for the individual

Rega wrote: »

Here you go.

Q: Was Saturday’s game better?
BC: “It is simple for me to say that now because we won. The last game was an outstanding game, there is no doubt about that, but I would say for either team to concede as much as was conceded the last day would not be what either team would be hoping to do. Obviously, you would love to score as much but the strange thing was that both teams scored the same and it was as if they had scored and missed more than we had and I didn’t think so. Also, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, [repeated] they were handed an opportunity [by referee Barry Kelly] with the last puck of the game the last day in the wrong to win the game. You are nodding your head now, so you agree. They were handed an opportunity by a complete wrong decision. We didn’t speak about it the last day but it was criminal what was done the last day. And people can say that I am whingeing and moaning all they like but I am telling the truth here.”
Q: Did you think it was a free the other way?
BC: “If he had said ‘play on’ I would have said fair enough. I could say maybe it might have been a free for us. If the ball broke and they put it over the bar fair enough but you don’t hand a team a free puck and say, ‘lads, there you go’. It was like that.”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/cody-puts-referee-kelly-and-former-kilkenny-greats-in-his-crosshairs-289094.html

If Brian had to say that Kelly was right to give the last free to Tipperary in the drawn game, would there be a word about it?

He said the free was wrong and he is vilified by non Kilkenny posters.

It was simply his opinion and he told it as he saw it.

All genuine Kilkenny supporters will back him for standing up for a wrong committed against his team and we support him on that.

We are KILKENNY SUPPORTERS after all.

What a manager & what a team performance, roll on 2015.

IrishAlice

pmy.murphy wrote: »

And where are you gone now Tommy Conlon with your "introverted county" article? Safe to say hes gone back under his rock until the next opportunity to dig the knife into us. Makes me sick how such puke could have been published in a national newspaper almost 12 months ago now. Makes winning the All Ireland that bit sweeter...... http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/quickdraw-artists-help-to-restore-national-treasure-29637633.html

I never saw that article until now. It just adds to my level of disgust.

Grats

shamco wrote: »

KK turning into the Donegal of hurling. Playing 10 defenders for most of the match. What about the great tradition in KK

Well isn't it time for the other counties to do a Kerry on us!

Mountainlad

There's plenty of good contributors from Kilkenny that post here, most staying out of the debate on Kelly which is fair enough.

I'm not a WUM and can't see exactly how I'd come across that way. I do get wound up myself by a certain segments constant bemoaning of the referee. Kelly is the prime example and having been at both the Leinster Final and drawn all ireland I really don't believe he did that much wrong in either. But he was getting abuse all day long in both (well for the Dublin game for as long it was competitive so no more than 30 mins I guess.)

Like sure Kilkenny have had a decision go against them, I think Paudie Maher should have had two yellow cards before he eventually got one in 2012 for what was the most blatant red card offense I think I've ever seen being one example. But it just seems the ref gets blamed all to often. I remember in the 2011 semi final people giving out about Kelly as well and I made a point of watching the game back and it if there were poor calls they evened out.

The same Barry Kelly who apparently has a Kilkenny bias reffed the 2009 semi final, and being behind the goal I saw Dan being absolutely man handled by JJ and all we got was a 65. A wrong decision, but just a missed call. I got over that, I don't feel the need to bring it up everytime he refs a Waterford game.

But the complaints happen all to often, Wadding, Owens is apparently one of the worst around after last year's game which I really don't understand. It gets very irritating.

One lad who is trying to be completely dismissive of the point here said was complaining last year after the league semi final about Fergal Moore not getting a yellow card for his 'reckless' tackle on Walter Walsh, the same one that left Fergal Moore semi conscious and having to be stretchered off. It's that sort of thing I have a problem with.


Eddie Brennan's comments in particular only fuel this type of thing, with him almost implying that Barry Kelly was the main reasons they failed to win those games he was involved in. There was not just a lack of respect for the ref their, but also to the direct opponents of Kilkenny.

Cody's aren't as bad, but it's disappointing he brought it up (and mentioning the ref after being asked 'Was Saturdays game better than the drawn match' is bringing it up). But what annoys me more is anyone who uses that as a vindication that Kilkenny are being continuously screwed and that Cody needed to stand up to the perpetrators.

One comment Bruschi even highlighted about somebody saying "Whether Kelly is pandering to the powers that be in GAA headquarters to do everything he can to allow for change..." is a perfect example of what makes me a bit irate on this. That anybody, even if it's just the opinion of one, could hold a view that the GAA are putting referees in place to try and thwart Kilkenny, I just don't even know what to say about that.



Can you really call me a WUM for having a serious issue with that kind of a claim?


As far as I'm concerned, both referees had good games in both finals. And that should be where the discussion ended and the talk of the match took over, where I have yet to see a single person say anything other than Kilkenny were deserving victors. And in that sense, I don't see where the begrudgery is either.

Grats

Back to hurling matters- anybody know where I could find the match statistics from the replay?

Realt Dearg Sec

shamco wrote: »

KK turning into the Donegal of hurling. Playing 10 defenders for most of the match. What about the great tradition in KK

The sheer lack of graciousness from opposing fans when KK win, the whining and bitching and moaning they do, is the sweetest music of all. You can't just say "well done on a well deserved win in which all of your starting forwards scored". No, ill-informed, nonsensical and untrue slights on the team masquerading as analysis is all you can manage. It's pathetic. But I love hearing it. Do go on.

Grats

My last comment on refs - Babs Keating had his say about Brian Gavin in the lead up to the replay. Donal Og Cusack slated Brian Gavin on RTE last Sunday. Cusack is an official with the GPA and contributes to the official GAA website. Don't hear anybody calling for an investigation into his criticism.

Westmeath County Board would be well advised to tread very carefully or they might just open up a can of worms. When Henry was incorrectly sent off last year it was the final straw as far as Kilkenny were concerned. Due to the refs personal situation at the time the matter was passed over. Out of respect our County Board remained silent. What Brian Cody said with regards to the Brian Hogan incident is a very minor part of the scenario. The timing of his comment would have been well thought through and in my opinion not at all ill timed.

Perhaps people should focus on why Barry Kelly was excluded from the replay! In each of the previous two replays the ref from the drawn match was a linesman for the replay.

shamco

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The sheer lack of graciousness from opposing fans when KK win, the whining and bitching and moaning they do, is the sweetest music of all. You can't just say "well done on a well deserved win in which all of your starting forwards scored". No, ill-informed, nonsensical and untrue slights on the team masquerading as analysis is all you can manage. It's pathetic. But I love hearing it. Do go on.

Well I don't think your manager has been very gracious either in victory