Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

Kkboy

Ric Flair wrote: »

What are the biggest rivalry's in Kilkenny Club Hurling??

Tullaroan v Graigue Ballycallan ?
Lisdowney v St. Pats Ballyragget ?
Ballyhale v Carrickshock ?
3 City Clubs ?

St Martins V Castlecomer

savannahkat

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah but there's none right now who were given as many chances. Clearly Cody saw something in him that made him worth a try, same as with Mulhall and others. That approach, showing patience with players because he sees something in a guy that the rest of us often don't, has paid off many times, where we've gotten a Richie Power, or a Brian Hogan, but that brings with it that you'll also have a few punts on guys that don't work out. Nothing wrong with Matt Ruth, but he just didn't work out. Don't think for a second it had anything to do with what club he's from.

I could not agree more. Time after time Cody has displayed the attribute of seeing talent where no one else could. I remember Jackie Tyrell when first he came on the scene as a county player in the forwards. In one game he was so bad he was penalized for picking the ball off the ground when under no great pressure. I was sure then we would never hear of him again. I was wrong and Cody did know what he had in Jackie. On another point I cannot think of one Boro player who should have been given a chance who was not afforded that opportunity. I cant speak for other clubs (or indeed for the Boro) but I always believed Cody was fair to every one irrespective of club. If the player has the right attitude to go with the basic talent Cody requires that player will be given a fair chance.

Realt Dearg Sec

savannahkat wrote: »

I could not agree more. Time after time Cody has displayed the attribute of seeing talent where no one else could. I remember Jackie Tyrell when first he came on the scene as a county player in the forwards. In one game he was so bad he was penalized for picking the ball off the ground when under no great pressure. I was sure then we would never hear of him again. I was wrong and Cody did know what he had in Jackie. On another point I cannot think of one Boro player who should have been given a chance who was not afforded that opportunity. I cant speak for other clubs (or indeed for the Boro) but I always believed Cody was fair to every one irrespective of club. If the player has the right attitude to go with the basic talent Cody requires that player will be given a fair chance.

The story I hear always is that beyond talent, which is one important thing, is that there's an attitude and a commitment that is demanded. If you have that attitude (and some talent) you'll get your chance. Plenty of lads have been involved who saw the requirements in day one and decided it wasn't for them. Presumably the Matt Ruths if this world had the attitude, and so they got their chance. As Cody says, there's no big secret.

Kilkennyfella

savannahkat wrote: »

As a Boro man the one big thing I admire about Cody is that he gives every club a fair shot. In my opinion he has never favored the Village at the expense of a player from another club.

What about his own son?

Realt Dearg Sec

Kilkennyfella wrote: »

What about his own son?

The guy he unceremoniously dropped when he wasn't performing? That son? In fairness nobody thought he didn't warrant a run with the team, when he wasn't up to it he was dropped. Same as anyone else. That episode is usually cited as evidence of Cody's ruthlessness, not of his nepotism.

Kilkennyfella

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The guy he unceremoniously dropped when he wasn't performing? That son? In fairness nobody thought he didn't warrant a run with the team, when he wasn't up to it he was dropped. Same as anyone else. That episode is usually cited as evidence of Cody's ruthlessness, not of his nepotism.

Yes that son, he has only had one son who was involved with the Kilkenny panel. Not sure why you are speaking for all when you say "nobody thought he didn't warrant a run with the team". I dont believe he was ever good enough for the panel, yet won 3 Leinster medals and 2 All Irelands.

Thats my opinion though, which is different to everybody else clearly.

randd1

Kilkennyfella wrote: »

Yes that son, he has only had one son who was involved with the Kilkenny panel. Not sure why you are speaking for all when you say "nobody thought he didn't warrant a run with the team". I dont believe he was ever good enough for the panel, yet won 3 Leinster medals and 2 All Irelands.

Thats my opinion though, which is different to everybody else clearly.

He was hurling well at the time with the club.

I suspect the chap had the attitude, which is why he was on the panel for a while. He was dropped when the quality didn't improve.

I see nothing wrong with giving a guy the time to develop has the attitude. Walter Walsh has been very average since 2012 but has the attitude. Should Cody drop him or keep him around? I'd be inclined to give Walter more time, but if he doesn't improve then at least we gave him the shot.

Kilkennyfella

randd1 wrote: »

He was hurling well at the time with the club.

I suspect the chap had the attitude, which is why he was on the panel for a while. He was dropped when the quality didn't improve.

I see nothing wrong with giving a guy the time to develop has the attitude. Walter Walsh has been very average since 2012 but has the attitude. Should Cody drop him or keep him around? I'd be inclined to give Walter more time, but if he doesn't improve then at least we gave him the shot.

Personally i'd disagree, as i said i dont believe he should have ever been on the panel. In regards to Wally, id give him more time for sure.

homeofhurling

Donnacha Cody was hurling well with James Stephens at the time he was on the team, he got no favours from his father during the time he was in with kilkenny better players came on to the scene and he was left off the panel there after.

homeofhurling

Kilkennyfella wrote: »

What about his own son?[/QUOTE



you also have to remember he got rid of Phil Larkin, Brian Mcveoy, Peter Barry,
all from the village and some had a few years left in them, so i don't think he ever favored the village over any club in his time with kilkenny.

northern lad

citykat wrote: »

As coach/selector (whatever his role was - I'm not sure). Far different from being the main man where the buck stops with you.

Anyway no matter who takes over from B.Cody will be on a hiding to nothing. M. Fogarty is also an obvious successor

northern lad

citykat wrote: »

As coach/selector (whatever his role was - I'm not sure). Far different from being the main man where the buck stops with you.

Anyway no matter who takes over from B.Cody will be on a hiding to nothing. M. Fogarty is also an obvious successor. Besides Fogarty, Lyng, McGarry no one else comes to mind at that level.

homeofhurling

what about Micheal Walsh or Mulrooney two good hurling men. Pat Hoban also making a name for himself after this years minor win.

northern lad

Thomas Mullaly and Mick Purcell are doing great work with Clara. Still think Fogarty, Lyng, McGarry best placed. Also M.Kavanagh working with squads.

citykat

homeofhurling wrote: »

Kilkennyfella wrote: »

What about his own son?[/QUOTE



you also have to remember he got rid of Phil Larkin, Brian Mcveoy, Peter Barry,
all from the village and some had a few years left in them, so i don't think he ever favored the village over any club in his time with kilkenny.

He may have seen something coming down the line but I thought Barry stood down himself? He was only 30-31(?) at the time from what I remember.

citykat

northern lad wrote: »

Anyway no matter who takes over from B.Cody will be on a hiding to nothing. M. Fogarty is also an obvious successor

Fogarty would be top of my list.

Speak Now

homeofhurling wrote: »

what about Micheal Walsh or Mulrooney two good hurling men. Pat Hoban also making a name for himself after this years minor win.

Michael Walsh please NO!!!

Realt Dearg Sec

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Michael Walsh please NO!!!

Have to agree sadly, he didn't seem up to scratch with the Boro or the u21s

wingbacknr5

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Have to agree sadly, he didn't seem up to scratch with the Boro or the u21s

Was he not the U21 manager when they won the 2008 All Ireland?

citykat

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Have to agree sadly, he didn't seem up to scratch with the Boro or the u21s

Have to say I rate Mickey. Solid pedigree as a player. Has been in the management game for a long time now.

Wouldn't fault him for the Boro's performance this year. Like the Village and Loughlins, the Boro have enough underage talent coming through every year. Don't understand how the City teams can't harness this talent for the benefit of their senior teams.

Realt Dearg Sec

wingbacknr5 wrote: »

Was he not the U21 manager when they won the 2008 All Ireland?

Yeah, I don't mean to imply that he was terrible by any means, winning an All Ireland was a tremendous achievement but over the following years there was a marked decline in performance, we lost to a good Clare team in the next All Ireland and then performances kind of fell off a cliff. We might debate the extent to which it was his fault, but I wouldn't have huge confidence in him taking over the seniors. Mulrooney would be worth a shot although Martin Fogarty would be the obvious choice.

Course, Cody wasn't exactly the obvious choice when he first came on the scene (because it was regarded as a toxic job that nobody would want)

Realt Dearg Sec

citykat wrote: »

Have to say I rate Mickey. Solid pedigree as a player. Has been in the management game for a long time now.

Wouldn't fault him for the Boro's performance this year. Like the Village and Loughlins, the Boro have enough underage talent coming through every year. Don't understand how the City teams can't harness this talent for the benefit of their senior teams.

Well I'd have said that if the talent is there then the responsibility has to rest with the manager. As to why we can't convert underage into senior success, there's all sorts of excuses available to do with other sports and the distractions available in town that aren't there out the country. I don't really buy into that though, it's not as if the country lads are stranded there. Personally I think it's due to an attitude within the very big clubs whereby, due to their numbers, they don't bother to care for or nurture the less than stellar players. It means that their teams lack depth at adult level because those lower level players don't bother to stay on, and so if you lose any of the top lads there's less competition to replace them. The stars, also, are made to feel like stars, while the lesser players are made to feel expendable.

I can't speak for how things are at the Boro now, but I remember as a kid being sent off to puck around at training while they put all their efforts into the lads they'd already decided at 12 or younger were the best. The attitude was one of, at best, total indifference. I still support the Boro, they're the club of my homeplace, but that kind of toxic attitude was the reason most people I knew stopped hurling. It's a type of short-sightedness that smaller clubs just can't afford.

wingbacknr5

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah, I don't mean to imply that he was terrible by any means, winning an All Ireland was a tremendous achievement but over the following years there was a marked decline in performance, we lost to a good Clare team in the next All Ireland and then performances kind of fell off a cliff. We might debate the extent to which it was his fault, but I wouldn't have huge confidence in him taking over the seniors. Mulrooney would be worth a shot although Martin Fogarty would be the obvious choice.

Course, Cody wasn't exactly the obvious choice when he first came on the scene (because it was regarded as a toxic job that nobody would want)

Very true about Cody way back in the winter of 1998, although I don't there was an obvious choice. As far as I remember Diarmuid Healy was in contention as well.

wingbacknr5

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah, I don't mean to imply that he was terrible by any means, winning an All Ireland was a tremendous achievement but over the following years there was a marked decline in performance, we lost to a good Clare team in the next All Ireland and then performances kind of fell off a cliff. We might debate the extent to which it was his fault, but I wouldn't have huge confidence in him taking over the seniors. Mulrooney would be worth a shot although Martin Fogarty would be the obvious choice.

Course, Cody wasn't exactly the obvious choice when he first came on the scene (because it was regarded as a toxic job that nobody would want)

Very true about Cody way back in the winter of 1998, although I don't think anyone else was the obvious choice either. As far as I remember Diarmuid Healy was in contention as well.

wingbacknr5

Deleted

Charlie69

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Well I'd have said that if the talent is there then the responsibility has to rest with the manager. As to why we can't convert underage into senior success, there's all sorts of excuses available to do with other sports and the distractions available in town that aren't there out the country. I don't really buy into that though, it's not as if the country lads are stranded there. Personally I think it's due to an attitude within the very big clubs whereby, due to their numbers, they don't bother to care for or nurture the less than stellar players. It means that their teams lack depth at adult level because those lower level players don't bother to stay on, and so if you lose any of the top lads there's less competition to replace them. The stars, also, are made to feel like stars, while the lesser players are made to feel expendable.

I can't speak for how things are at the Boro now, but I remember as a kid being sent off to puck around at training while they put all their efforts into the lads they'd already decided at 12 or younger were the best. The attitude was one of, at best, total indifference. I still support the Boro, they're the club of my homeplace, but that kind of toxic attitude was the reason most people I knew stopped hurling. It's a type of short-sightedness that smaller clubs just can't afford.

Excellent post, couldn't agree more

robwen

Any TV coverage (live, deferred, highlights) of Sundays county final?

dastardly00

robwen wrote: »

Any TV coverage (live, deferred, highlights) of Sundays county final?

There should be some highlights on TG4 on Monday at 8.30pm.

citykat

robwen wrote: »

Any TV coverage (live, deferred, highlights) of Sundays county final?

Saw on another thread that's it's definitely not on live or deferred.

dastardly00

Yeah TG4 are showing live coverage of one of the Munster football semi-finals and deferred coverage of an Ulster provincial match.

Bob321.

How does everyone think the county final will go on Sunday. Is TJ carrying on injury.......

dastardly00

Ballyhale 1-20 Clara 1-13

For those that attended, was it a good match?

phkk

dastardly00 wrote: »

Ballyhale 1-20 Clara 1-13

For those that attended, was it a good match?

Yeah, thought the quality was excellent, particularly in the first half with crisp striking, good first touch and some of the scores were pure class. Thought Joey Holden, Cha and TJ were outstanding all through

citykat

Clara got off to a lightning start with 1-2 inside the first 4 mins. Shamrocks looked dazed especially their full back line who looked in all sorts of trouble. This was Clara’s purple patch however. Shamrocks appeared to shake themselves off and started hurling. Nobody lead the line more than Henry who was at it all game. He ghosted into the right corner forward position and with nobody within 20 yds of him, he put it on a plate for Aylward to finish to the net. After that goal went in Clara never responded. Once Shamrocks got in front they stayed there for the rest of the game. This game was effectively won in the first half. Clara only scored 4 more pts in the remaining 26 mins of the first half. They managed to get within 3 pts of the Shamrocks in the second half but this was only a respite. Shamrocks moved up a gear and won at their ease.

MOTM was TJ who gave a master class in catching. He might have expected a more robust aerial challenge at times but in this kind of form he’s unplayable. If KK handed out HOTY awards, he’d be a shoe-in going on his last 3 performances.

IMO Henry ran him close for MOTM. He was relentless just like he always is. Given all that he’s achieved and won, he might be forgiven for taking the foot off the pedal. Not a chance. Whatever about his ability I don’t think there’s anybody like him for persistence. I can’t help think this might be down to the amount of game time he got with KK this year. Even up to the last puck of the game, Colin Fennelly scored a wonder point from about 70 yds on the RHS. But who was looking for the ball on the far side all on his own about 30 yds out having run into space. Who else?

In fairness Shamrocks at times resembled KK Vs Tipp in the replay for hooks, blocks, tackles. Clara were made work for every ball. In terms of 50/50s Shamrocks won the majority.

Other notables for the Shamrocks were Cha and Eoin Reid who on this form would be on most county teams. Mick Fennelly was solid at CB and never looked uncomfortable. Holden after a shaky start was commanding at full back. Thought Colin, for him, was quietest of the county men. He still managed a few scores and nearly put Aylward through for a goal in the first half.

As for Clara, on their and Shamrocks semi form, I fancied them to do it today. Apart from the first few minutes they were way below the level required. Lester tried hard in MF but he got no support. On a day when Clara needed a leader, especially up front, I didn’t expect a 19 year old, Bolger, to be the only one who would step up. On this display there won’t be any clamour for any other Clara players to be called up to the county panel.

How far Shamrocks want to go in the club championships is entirely up to them. They have a forward line that most counties would covet. They have a solid spine. On their day, they’d take any team.

Finally, there wasn’t a dirty strike all game bar at the end when Henry was intentionally struck on the arm trying to catch a ball. The ref bizarrely played on while Henry was in obvious discomfort. When the ball came back down the Clara back line, it was quite obvious Henry was mad. He ended getting a soft yellow for a bit of handbags. It was a poor decision from the ref who up to that had a good game.

pmy.murphy

Mullinavat also defeated Coill Dubh of Kildare today in the Leinster IHC Semi Final by 2-19 to 1-8 whilst Bennettsbridge defeated Dunderry of Meath by 4-25 to 0-4 in their Leinster Championship encounter

droppingball

Tj was outstanding, caught an amount of ball and picked off lovely scores but Cha would be my man of the match. He dropped deep and won mountains of ball he must have had 25 plays.

On the pull on Henry, I saw nothing wrong with it the ball was there and henry didn't protect his hand, i also thought he was angry after but he gave a fair shoulder. His movement off the ball was great and he was ghosting into space.

Clara were made look ordinary at times but they will prove to be a force in the coming years and they have had an amazing three years so well done to them.

Congrats to the shamrocks anyway great team and club who have given so much to Kilkenny hurling. Hope they go well in the club championship.

robwen

droppingball wrote: »

Tj was outstanding, caught an amount of ball and picked off lovely scores but Cha would be my man of the match. He dropped deep and won mountains of ball he must have had 25 plays.

Not to bad from Cha who had basically retired from hurling over the summer & Conor Walsh who only recently came back to make the team after giving up hurling earlier in the year. Interesting to see who gets the nomination for Kilkenny captain???

Kilkennyfella

robwen wrote: »

Not to bad from Cha who had basically retired from hurling over the summer & Conor Walsh who only recently came back to make the team after giving up hurling earlier in the year. Interesting to see who gets the nomination for Kilkenny captain???

Has Colin been captain yet?

homeofhurling

no don't think he has, Mick was captain of the team that won the all ireland a few years ago.

donnem33

Kilkennyfella wrote: »

Has Colin been captain yet?

Was he not captain in 2013?

robwen

donnem33 wrote: »

Was he not captain in 2013?

Yes Colin was captain last year, I think TJ may get it, help him make up for 2010 & on form he`s the most deserving, Henry says he won`t make a decision on hurling with KK till he`s finished with club which could be next March & giving it to Joey Holden would put an awful lot of unnecessary pressure on a fella who is still relatively new to the panel & trying to nail down a regular starting spot

delaney001

First time I can remember tg4 not showing kk final. Didn't show tipp final either. Not to be biased, but for people who can't travel they must be the two biggest-billed hurling county finals in the country. Seems v strange not to show them

Mountainlad

delaney001 wrote: »

First time I can remember tg4 not showing kk final. Didn't show tipp final either. Not to be biased, but for people who can't travel they must be the two biggest-billed hurling county finals in the country. Seems v strange not to show them

Time of the year, more interest in the Austin Stacks v Ballincollig game (two counties involved, both way bigger than Kilkenny). What other game was shown, Slaughtneill v Clontibret?

Realt Dearg Sec

Lucky enough to get down for the matches yesterday. The minor match was far from a classic. The conditions were particularly bad early in the day, the fog, the damp on the top of the pitch, all made for a lot of lads losing their footing and difficulty handling the ball. But even aside from that, it was turgid stuff, neither team played at all well for the first forty minutes or so. For the Boro I thought Gaffney looked a cut above at mid field where he did great work creating chances but the forwards were responsible for some shocking wides. When he moved into the forwards he seemed to take on a lot of shots that he really shouldn't have. The goals were keeping the Boro in it (including a very unfortunate goalkeeper error for one of them), but you'd have to admit that Loughlins looked to be the hungrier, better drilled team (which isn't to say that they were brilliant on the day mind you). Their number 15, sorry I had no programme, but he had a fine game, serious pace and a good hurling intelligence, was my stand out performer in the match. In one sense I thought the Boro were unlucky/careless to give up the lead at the end, but on the balance of play it was the right result, hard as that is to take. Congratulations to Loughlins on the win.

The senior was a fantastic game I thought, especially the first half. When Clara came out and scored 1-2 in the space of three minutes I thought they'd push on, but Ballyhale just needed a little longer to get their act together. Once they did, they were as well drilled, precise and brilliant as an inter-county team. But it wasn't just that they could place beautiful passes into the full forwards (Shefllin at FF was very very good I thought), or that they seemed able to create fantastic amount of space up there despite Clara playing a sweeper. It was the hunger they had for road, as though none of them had ever won anything in their lives. The pressure the Clara forwards were under from minute 3 til the last whistle was unreal, and they just couldn't live with it, though a couple of lads like Keith Hogan did OK I thought.

TJ Reid was immense but for me Cha was something else. For a guy who plenty of people would have questioned his work ethic and his attitude to the game, you'd be hard pressed to associate all of that with the guy who was on that field. Hardly a blade of grass he didn't cover at some point during the day.
Very impressive stuff all round from both teams, especially for the time of year.

citykat

Mountainlad wrote: »

Time of the year, more interest in the Austin Stacks v Ballincollig game (two counties involved, both way bigger than Kilkenny). What other game was shown, Slaughtneill v Clontibret?

I'd imagine there'd been far more interest in the hurling than that snoozefest though. Interest in the KK county final extends far beyond the county boundary.

citykat

delaney001 wrote: »

First time I can remember tg4 not showing kk final. Didn't show tipp final either. Not to be biased, but for people who can't travel they must be the two biggest-billed hurling county finals in the country. Seems v strange not to show them

TG4 have a game of the week at 12:45 am Wed. Hopefully it'll be broadcast then.

Fergus_Nash

citykat wrote: »

I'd imagine there'd been far more interest in the hurling than that snoozefest though. Interest in the KK county final extends far beyond the county boundary.

I imagine the provincial championship takes precedent over the county championship, at least when it gets to semi-final time.

Kkboy

I see Shamrocks are favourites for the All Ireland, obviously they are a great team with brilliant hurlers but maybe a lack of pace in certain areas would be a concern.

Mountainlad

citykat wrote: »

I'd imagine there'd been far more interest in the hurling than that snoozefest though. Interest in the KK county final extends far beyond the county boundary.

I'd say TG4 have enough experience to know what would pull in a higher viewership to be honest. It might extend beyond the County boundary, but then I'd say so does the interest in the provincial football games as well.

Even if Kilkenny people aren't interested, the 90,000 population compared to about 6.4million people on the entire Island is a drop in the ocean.

Mountainlad

Kkboy wrote: »

I see Shamrocks are favourites for the All Ireland, obviously they are a great team with brilliant hurlers but maybe a lack of pace in certain areas would be a concern.

If they can beat Kilcormac I think they will win it out. Maybe Cratloe the other main danger, but would worry for them on Sunday given the toll yesterday is bound to have taken on them along with all the other accumulative games in the past 15 weeks or so.

The Galway championship has been completely thrown out of kilter with a team thrown out and a subsequent appeal. And Portumna, though still good, are not the force of old. Had a bit of help from the ref in beating Na Piarsaigh last year.