Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

phkk

pat 22 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what became of Richie Doyle? He was talked about being the next jj

Class hurler alright but has struggled to regain form following hip operation.
Lads, in my opinion, how is Liam Ryan not on the Kilkenny panel yet? I've seen this guy for the past few years and have always been impressed by his work rate, speed, skill and striking. He reminds me a lot of Cha. I know he got afew runs and been in training but he's a lot to offer. Geoff Brennan is excellent too. Think Conor Martin, Eoin McGrath, Ger Teehan, Philly Cass, Eoin Kenny, Luke Scanlon, Enda Morrissey are worth having a look at also

pmy.murphy

Kkboy wrote: »

Not much use arguing this further as I can see your point, but in my opinion he deserved a shot at the panel and is likely to be there next year. I dont think Geoff Brennan is a forward. It is worth remembering that Geoff and Joe Brennan, Ger Alyward and Matthew Ruth where on the extended panel last year. As for Liam Ryan, Kevin Kelly and Keith Hogan, I agree they certainly look like better hurlers but I think the management have some serious doubts about them based on how they did when they where called up to the panel on previous occasions.

Oh I definately agree that if you work hard you deserve a chance and Farrell deserved his but unfortunately hes not going to cut it at this level.

I know these lads were on the panel last year but what I was trying to say was Farrell was on most of the matchday squads ahead of these lads. I never rated Joe Brennan really until I saw enough of him this year playing for Ballyragget and he impressed me. Very skilfull hurler but Im not sure if he can transform it to the Senior stage as hes been in there a few years now.

Kevin Kelly will make it I think if given another chance, the competition was extremely intense last year and the raft of retirements will open up spaces for lads like him, likewise liam ryan. Id hope Keith Hogan is given a shot too as he has never gotten a county call up as of yet

andyman

pat 22 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what became of Richie Doyle? He was talked about being the next jj

Shadow of his former self after his hip operation.

I saw him playing in the Fitzgibbon Cup last year against UCC. He looked so poor. His mobility and agility was non-existent (and it was something he was renowned for.

Cody will keep giving him chances to train, but I can't see anything come from it.

pmy.murphy

andyman wrote: »

Shadow of his former self after his hip operation.

I saw him playing in the Fitzgibbon Cup last year against UCC. He looked so poor. His mobility and agility was non-existent (and it was something he was renowned for.

Cody will keep giving him chances to train, but I can't see anything come from it.

Hip operations generally do not make much of an improvement to your mobility and agility from what Ive heard from people. I know one or two people who are still hampered by their hips after having an operation

I saw him playing against Wexford for the KK Intermediates earlier in the year too and it was sad to see he was so poor. I think he was taken off at half time aswell from what I remember. Injuries have ruined a very promising career for him.

I dont see him making it back either especially considering the level hes playing at club level and paulstown dont look as if they'll be getting out of Junior any time soon either

pat 22

andyman wrote: »

Shadow of his former self after his hip operation.

I saw him playing in the Fitzgibbon Cup last year against UCC. He looked so poor. His mobility and agility was non-existent (and it was something he was renowned for.

Cody will keep giving him chances to train, but I can't see anything come from it.

Such a pity. And waste of a talent. Hip injuries are the worst of all to get over.

tbiggertycome

pat 22 wrote: »

Such a pity. And waste of a talent. Hip injuries are the worst of all to get over.

Given he's current state he won't ever hurl for the county again but I've heard talk of him looking into some new injections from the State's which have shown huge early promise at fixing Richies specific issue with both his hips by the way. If this is true and he gets the injections and of course they actually work then he could definitely get back into the county set up with a lot of hard work.

Although as pointed out he might struggle hurling for Barrow Rangers but I think if a lad goes to this effort they will give him an opportunity to prove himself. He has it all when fully fit and would be a very welcome addition to the squad. Hope this is more than talk and that it actually works out for Richie as he's a fierce nice guy who just loves hurling.

When he came on in the Walsh Cup game out in Freshford last January I couldn't believe it was him I had to check the program twice and still thought it was a typo so asked an ould lad beside me. Ritchie was big from the waist down for a lad that was so trim and just looked very awkward in his movements.

Kkboy

He has been a fantastic representative for any Kilkenny team he has been involved with, im sure I speak for everybody when wishing him a complete recovery from his injury problems

Realt Dearg Sec

Kkboy wrote: »

He has been a fantastic representative for any Kilkenny team he has been involved with, im sure I speak for everybody when wishing him a complete recovery from his injury problems

Damn right. Horrible to have your career impeded that way when you're as talented as him.

The Premier Man

Any hope of james gannon from pats get a call in? I heard he went very well at 3 all year in the Intermediate

citykat

U21 North Semi
Boro 1-13 Clara 1-6 -easy win for the Boro in the end. Level at half time 1-3 to 0-6. Clara couldn't take advantage of the wind and sun in the first half. The second half was competitive enough with the Boro taking a three pt lead before stretching it to 6 with a soft goal about ten minutes to go. Once that went in it the game was effectively over. Jack Langton, Ciaran Prendergast and Chris Bolger were foremost for Clara. Evan Cody, Eoin Gough, Kevin Kenny and Dara Holohan were the main men for the Boro with the latter (normally a goalie) taking current county panellist Conor O'Shea for 1-3 for the second game in a row. Boro were missing county minors Gaffney (went off injured early) and Doheny and normal CF Farrell.
They'll face a sterner test in the final after the Bridge beat the fancied Loughs in the other semi.

babyjesus14

The Premier Man wrote: »

Any hope of james gannon from pats get a call in? I heard he went very well at 3 all year in the Intermediate

Saw him playing Fitzgibbon with UCD last year and he didn't strike me as a contender... having said that he was better than the man playing beside him and he is on the panel!

droppingball

Joe Brennan doesn't put himself about half enough and is very half hearted in the tackle, has endless talent though. Hope Cody can get something out of him.

Speak Now

Nice interview with Lester on RTE sports awards.

phkk

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Nice interview with Lester on RTE sports awards.

+1 Lester is very articulate, great speaker. Very proud of him to have given the speech as Gaeilge

pmy.murphy

phkk wrote: »

Think Conor Martin, Eoin McGrath, Ger Teehan, Philly Cass, Eoin Kenny, Luke Scanlon, Enda Morrissey are worth having a look at also

Barring Scanlon none of these lads are next to near good enough to be given a chance, most were part of that awful U21 team in the season just gone with Martin, Teehan and Morrissey among the worst performers that evening. Dunno what you see in them to be honest, Great things were expecting from McGrath but hes gone backwards plus hurling Junior with Callan cant have helped him in his development

phkk

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Barring Scanlon none of these lads are next to near good enough to be given a chance, most were part of that awful U21 team in the season just gone with Martin, Teehan and Morrissey among the worst performers that evening. Dunno what you see in them to be honest, Great things were expecting from McGrath but hes gone backwards plus hurling Junior with Callan cant have helped him in his development

I don't know pmy, there's plenty of lads down the years I would have said weren't good enough but Cody developed them and gave them every opportunity and they blossomed. I was very impressed with all of the above players with their clubs this year

unrealtime

The under-21s were beaten and no back door. The minors were beaten and .... I think that we had quite a good under-21 team that might have improved with games.

pmy.murphy

unrealtime wrote: »

The under-21s were beaten and no back door. The minors were beaten and .... I think that we had quite a good under-21 team that might have improved with games.

You have to remember that U21 team were very poor at Minor level too so I dont agree with that along with the fact they were trounced in a couple of challenge games one of whom was against Limerick who didnt exactly set the world alight at that grade this year. That being said they were missing Kevin Kelly, Simon Aylward and Jack Langton against Wexford so it probably would have been a closer game but based on the team on show that night it was awful. I think 5 of the 6 forwards were actually substituted, it was at least 4 of them anyway. Most of the players looked completely out of their depth and the only players I would probably see off that team who may be good enough to progress is the two Mullinavat lads on Tom Aylward, Mansfield and Richie Reid based on his outfield performance that night and Lennon from the Bridge. Other for that the rest not good enough and the gulf in class was there to see, 6 starting players were from Junior clubs and about 4 of them were taken off.

The Minor team was a completely different case, most of the players came in on the back of colleges success along with some very good hurlers left from the year before like John Walsh, Darragh Joyce and Alan Murphy for example

homeofhurling

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Barring Scanlon none of these lads are next to near good enough to be given a chance, most were part of that awful U21 team in the season just gone with Martin, Teehan and Morrissey among the worst performers that evening. Dunno what you see in them to be honest, Great things were expecting from McGrath but hes gone backwards plus hurling Junior with Callan cant have helped him in his development

theres many a good hurler over the years that hurl junior and hurl senior with kilkenny. John Power wasn't to simple and Glenmore are junior and have a few nice young players coming up.

pmy.murphy

homeofhurling wrote: »

theres many a good hurler over the years that hurl junior and hurl senior with kilkenny. John Power wasn't to simple and Glenmore are junior and have a few nice young players coming up.

Doesnt mean their all good enough to hurl with Kilkenny, you will always get the odd few who have the talent but for whatever reason dont stand out from a young age ie: Henry Shefflin, Eddie Brennan. Most of the time you can tell if certain lads have room for improvement. Rob Lennon from the Bridge is one of those lads I could see something in amid rumours I heard he was going to be called in to the pre-season training panel. He didnt play that well U21 this year and you can tell hes not used to Intercounty hurling as it was 4 years since he last hurled Minor and was playing Junior ever since. Hes a big chap and has good skill and aerial ability, these are the sort of things you see in lads that dont stand out originally for whatever reason. Tom Aylward the Full Back didnt hurl Minor at all but was one of the few lads who played very well that evening and hurled well on Conor McDonald so obviously he had something similar which wasnt spotted at Minor level.

It does make a huge difference if you havent played any sort of Intercounty hurling in 3 years as a lot of these lads hadnt off the U21 team mainly cos they simply werent good enough. Thats where the level of club hurling you play at becomes very important

Plus Glenmore have yet to hurl Junior, theyve been Intermediate for a good few years and some of their most talented young players will continue to be involved with the county Id imagine regardless as they are very talented. I couldnt see Glenmore being down Junior for too long anyway, they were missing lots of players last year for different reasons. They will bounce straight back if they can get their best 15 out.

homeofhurling

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Doesnt mean their all good enough to hurl with Kilkenny, you will always get the odd few who have the talent but for whatever reason dont stand out from a young age ie: Henry Shefflin, Eddie Brennan. Most of the time you can tell if certain lads have room for improvement. Rob Lennon from the Bridge is one of those lads I could see something in amid rumours I heard he was going to be called in to the pre-season training panel. He didnt play that well U21 this year and you can tell hes not used to Intercounty hurling as it was 4 years since he last hurled Minor and was playing Junior ever since. Hes a big chap and has good skill and aerial ability, these are the sort of things you see in lads that dont stand out originally for whatever reason. Tom Aylward the Full Back didnt hurl Minor at all but was one of the few lads who played very well that evening and hurled well on Conor McDonald so obviously he had something similar which wasnt spotted at Minor level.

It does make a huge difference if you havent played any sort of Intercounty hurling in 3 years as a lot of these lads hadnt off the U21 team mainly cos they simply werent good enough. Thats where the level of club hurling you play at becomes very important

Plus Glenmore have yet to hurl Junior, theyve been Intermediate for a good few years and some of their most talented young players will continue to be involved with the county Id imagine regardless as they are very talented. I couldnt see Glenmore being down Junior for too long anyway, they were missing lots of players last year for different reasons. They will bounce straight back if they can get their best 15 out.

is that Rob Lennon of the bridge a son of Tom's who hurl with kilkenny minors in the early 80's.

savannahkat

A bit of nostalgia to finish the year up with the year being 1980.

Kilkenny hurlers came on the long overnight trip to Tralee to play the local side in Division 1B of the NHL. It was the first meeting of the sides in this competition and only the second ever meeting of Kilkenny and Kerry in any grade of hurling.
The game itself was a thriller with scores being level on five occasions in all. Kilkenny scored two points in the first three minutes. A rout looked on the cards. However Kerry found their feet. Tremendous displays by John Bunyan and Joe Kelly kept Kerry very much in the game. Kilkenny scored three late points before the interval, to edge into a 0-08 to 0-06 lead at the break. A '65 and a free in the 12th & 13th minute by current GAA President Nicky Brennan put Kilkenny further ahead
Thereafter Kilkenny were to score only one more point. The Kerry fight back brought points from Tod Nolan and Bunyan who were in fact to prove Kerry's only score getters. Tensions mounted as Kerry clawed their way back, climaxing in a free 30 yards out in injury time with a one point deficit. Up stepped ballyduff's John Bunyan to slot it between the posts and salvage a historic draw for the men from the Kingdom.

The Kilkenny line out was:
Noel Skehan
Paddy Neary, Jim Moran, Richie Reid.
Nicky Brennan 0-02, Ger henderson, J Lennon.
Murty Kennerdy 0-01, Paudie Lannon.
Eamoon Wallace, Billy Fitzpatrick 0-05, John Brennan.
Michael Nash 0-02, Christy Heffernan, Tom Moran 0-01.
Sub used Matt Ruth.





Read more: http://kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/208#ixzz3MgRwkAqs

dastardly00

33 pictures that chart Kilkenny’s brilliant hurling year

savannahkat

"Brian Cody spoke of the rivalry from a purely personal perspective. "When I was growing up, there was a serious Kilkenny-Tipperary rivalry certainly" he said. "And Kilkenny never came out the right side of it. The last time I think was 1967. During my own playing career, I never had the privilege of playing against Tipp in the Championship."

Well it was Cody who changed the essential fabric of Kilkenny-Tipp. It was Cody who took a sledgehammer to that old nursery-rhyme: "Kilkenny for the hurlers; Tipp for the men!" He put the steel in Kilkenny and, in doing so, he forced Tipp to find a new way of winning."

The above is part of an article in todays Indo. As a long time Kilkenny supporter from way back in the fifties it was always said we could never beat Tipp. My only recollection of ever having seen them beat Tipp in a championship match was in 1967. Then from 2000 until today we played them nine times winning seven drawing one and losing one in full championship matches. This mental change in attitude has to be Cody's single greatest achievement. This year the Tipp Chairman said they Tipp needed to get the Kilkenny monkey off their back and the day will come when they will however what a change that is. For wel lover 80 years it was the other way around. No one knows what will happen in 2015 but if it comes to pass that we meet again and we can beat them again with all the retirements in Kilkenny then it will rank right up there with any previous victory. Long may we be the monkey on Tipp's back, for far to long it was the other way round.

EIRE1922

savannahkat wrote: »

"Brian Cody spoke of the rivalry from a purely personal perspective. "When I was growing up, there was a serious Kilkenny-Tipperary rivalry certainly" he said. "And Kilkenny never came out the right side of it. The last time I think was 1967. During my own playing career, I never had the privilege of playing against Tipp in the Championship."

Well it was Cody who changed the essential fabric of Kilkenny-Tipp. It was Cody who took a sledgehammer to that old nursery-rhyme: "Kilkenny for the hurlers; Tipp for the men!" He put the steel in Kilkenny and, in doing so, he forced Tipp to find a new way of winning."

There was plenty of steel in the Kilkenny hurlers in the 60's, 70's and 80's. I would not necessarly say Brian Cody brought steel to the Kilkenny team. He has probably brought a better mental strength, better attitude to training and better training methods. Some mighty men had plenty of steel prior to Cody taking over as Kilkenny manager and indeed many who played along side and before Brian. Pat and Ger Henderson, Eddie Keher, Pa Dillion, Phil 'Fan' Larkin, Liam 'Chunky' O'Brien, Frank Cummins, the Bold Christy Heffernan, Liam Fennelly, Billy Fitzpatrick, Pat Delaney, Dick O'Hara, Joe Hennessey and so on! Kilkenny have always had tough hard physical men full of steel and matched with plenty of hurling skill over the years!

With Kilkenny v Tipperary, it is now a mental thing with Tipp being on the losing side and taking so many recent defeats! That is where Kilkenny are stronger mentally. After 2010 and 2013 defeats, Kilkenny just bounced back the following year! Even after the 2004 & 2005 defeats, Kilkenny bounced back in 2006 and then went on a run of 4-in-a-row!

Tipperary in recent years seem to fear Kilkenny. They tend to have a mental block when it comes to playing against the black & amber jersey and be able to see out and win the tough physical tight matches that have been against Kilkenny.

piuswal

For me the turning point was the 1966 National League Home Final.

Tipp were beaten 09-07 in one of the toughest uncompromising games I ever saw.

citykat

EIRE1922 wrote: »

savannahkat wrote: »

"Brian Cody spoke of the rivalry from a purely personal perspective. "When I was growing up, there was a serious Kilkenny-Tipperary rivalry certainly" he said. "And Kilkenny never came out the right side of it. The last time I think was 1967. During my own playing career, I never had the privilege of playing against Tipp in the Championship."

Well it was Cody who changed the essential fabric of Kilkenny-Tipp. It was Cody who took a sledgehammer to that old nursery-rhyme: "Kilkenny for the hurlers; Tipp for the men!" He put the steel in Kilkenny and, in doing so, he forced Tipp to find a new way of winning."

There was plenty of steel in the Kilkenny hurlers in the 60's, 70's and 80's. I would not necessarly say Brian Cody brought steel to the Kilkenny team. He has probably brought a better mental strength, better attitude to training and better training methods. Some mighty men had plenty of steel prior to Cody taking over as Kilkenny manager and indeed many who played along side and before Brian. Pat and Ger Henderson, Eddie Keher, Pa Dillion, Phil 'Fan' Larkin, Liam 'Chunky' O'Brien, Frank Cummins, the Bold Christy Heffernan, Liam Fennelly, Billy Fitzpatrick, Pat Delaney, Dick O'Hara, Joe Hennessey and so on! Kilkenny have always had tough hard physical men full of steel and matched with plenty of hurling skill over the years!

With Kilkenny v Tipperary, it is now a mental thing with Tipp being on the losing side and taking so many recent defeats! That is where Kilkenny are stronger mentally. After 2010 and 2013 defeats, Kilkenny just bounced back the following year! Even after the 2004 & 2005 defeats, Kilkenny bounced back in 2006 and then went on a run of 4-in-a-row!

Tipperary in recent years seem to fear Kilkenny. They tend to have a mental block when it comes to playing against the black & amber jersey and be able to see out and win the tough physical tight matches that have been against Kilkenny.

i wouldn't put Christy in that group.

savannahkat

EIRE1922 wrote: »

savannahkat wrote: »

"Brian Cody spoke of the rivalry from a purely personal perspective. "When I was growing up, there was a serious Kilkenny-Tipperary rivalry certainly" he said. "And Kilkenny never came out the right side of it. The last time I think was 1967. During my own playing career, I never had the privilege of playing against Tipp in the Championship."

Well it was Cody who changed the essential fabric of Kilkenny-Tipp. It was Cody who took a sledgehammer to that old nursery-rhyme: "Kilkenny for the hurlers; Tipp for the men!" He put the steel in Kilkenny and, in doing so, he forced Tipp to find a new way of winning."

There was plenty of steel in the Kilkenny hurlers in the 60's, 70's and 80's. I would not necessarly say Brian Cody brought steel to the Kilkenny team. He has probably brought a better mental strength, better attitude to training and better training methods. Some mighty men had plenty of steel prior to Cody taking over as Kilkenny manager and indeed many who played along side and before Brian. Pat and Ger Henderson, Eddie Keher, Pa Dillion, Phil 'Fan' Larkin, Liam 'Chunky' O'Brien, Frank Cummins, the Bold Christy Heffernan, Liam Fennelly, Billy Fitzpatrick, Pat Delaney, Dick O'Hara, Joe Hennessey and so on! Kilkenny have always had tough hard physical men full of steel and matched with plenty of hurling skill over the years!

With Kilkenny v Tipperary, it is now a mental thing with Tipp being on the losing side and taking so many recent defeats! That is where Kilkenny are stronger mentally. After 2010 and 2013 defeats, Kilkenny just bounced back the following year! Even after the 2004 & 2005 defeats, Kilkenny bounced back in 2006 and then went on a run of 4-in-a-row!

Tipperary in recent years seem to fear Kilkenny. They tend to have a mental block when it comes to playing against the black & amber jersey and be able to see out and win the tough physical tight matches that have been against Kilkenny.

I would not disagree at all with any of the players you mention. Any of them would have been good enough to make the Kilkenny teams from 2000 onwards. The problem back then is that we produced a sprinkling of them but never enough at the same time apart from 66 /67. Kilkenny in those days also carried the stylish hurlers who did not like to mix it and could and were horsed out of it. It was our way. Cody changed that, he still picks the stylish hurlers but he also insists they be capable of winning dirty ball. That was not always the way and that is the main difference between Kilkenny under Cody and the attitude prior to his appointment.

The growler

EIRE1922 wrote: »

Tipperary in recent years seem to fear Kilkenny. They tend to have a mental block when it comes to playing against the black & amber jersey and be able to see out and win the tough physical tight matches that have been against Kilkenny.

How do you know that Tipp "fear" Kilkenny? Is it not simply a fact that Kilkenny are just a better team than Tipp? I'm from Tipperary and it pains me to say it but Kilkenny have fully deserved every victory against us in League and Championship since Brian Cody took over (the only one where we were hard done by was 2009 AI Final, all the others we lost we deserved to lose). In fairness to Tipp, bar the 2003 and 2012 semi-finals, there's been very little between the teams, but Kilkenny are just that little bit better, and have that bit of cuteness to close out games - the end of the League Final this year being an example, when Tipp needlessly put the ball out and Kilkenny worked the winning score very well.

By the way, I also doubt Kilkenny feared Tipp pre-1967. Tipp were just better than them back then like Klkenny are better than Tipp now. Tipp won 7 Munsters in the 60s, and beat Cork 7 times in a row until 1969. Prior to this Kilkenny team the Tipp team of the 60s would have been regarded as the best team of all time.

homeofhurling

kilkenny always had hurlers with steel, the teams of the 60's 70's 80's were as tough as todays team, Dick O'Hara, the Hendersons Frank Cummins, Paddy Pender, Joe Hennessy, Nicky Orr, Phil Larkin senior and junior, Jim Treacy, John Power i could go on all night here but most of them would walk on to todays team, the problem i would see is Leinster hurling is not as strong as it was in the 70's and 80's with the likes of wexford and offaly have gone way back down the ladder.

another thing kilkenny never went away tipp did from 1972 to 1987

The growler

homeofhurling wrote: »

another thing kilkenny never went away tipp did from 1972 to 1987

Kilkenny only won 2 All-Irelands in the period between 1983 to 2000, the same as Tipp did in that era. Okay, Tipp's fall from grace was more pronounced between 1972 to 1987, but it's not as if Kilkenny haven't had their lean periods also.

homeofhurling

kilkenny won leinster titles and were beaten in a few all ireland tipp never came out of munster untill 1987 thats a 16 year gap.

The growler

homeofhurling wrote: »

kilkenny won leinster titles and were beaten in a few all ireland tipp never came out of munster untill 1987 thats a 16 year gap.

True. I wasn't arguing that Kilkenny ever had a fall from grace as pronounced as Tipp from 1972-1987. I'm just saying they also have had their lean periods in terms of All-Ireland victories.

Since 1989 Tipp have won as many All-Irelands as any other county (with one obvious exception!). This era of Kilkenny dominance is unprecedented.

Speak Now

Amazingly Tipp haven't won 2 in a decade since the 60's. Surely that will be put to bed soon.

EIRE1922

citykat wrote: »

EIRE1922 wrote: »

i wouldn't put Christy in that group.

Christy was tough!

unrealtime

KK won 5 all Irelands from 1982 to 2000 - so what? 5 wins was more than anyone else - a bad time for KK me arse

piuswal

Below is a decadal (except 1887-99) of All Irelands won.

The attached file is probably easier to read.

KK were dominant 1900-1919

Cork dominated the 40's and 50's

KK shaded the 60's and 70's and shared the 80's and 90's with Cork.

The rest is history

Since the National League final of 1966, Tipp have won 5, Cork 11, and KK 20!

I trust my figures are correct, if not the error is mine and hopefully someone will correct them

There's no listing for 1888- no final?

Just realised that the display in edit mode is different to what you see in the final version here - attached file should be clearer.


1887-1899 00-09 10-19 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 70-79 80-89 90-99 00-09 2010-
KK 0 4 3 1 4 1 1 3 4 2 2 7 3
Ck 4 2 1 3 1 5 3 1 4 2 2 2 0
Tipp 5 3 1 1 2 2 3 4 1 1 1 1 1
Lk 1 0 1 1 2 1 0 0 1
D 1 0 1 3 1
Wx 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 1
G 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 3
O 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2
Cl 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
W 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Ky 1
La 0 0 1
Lo 0 1

homeofhurling

piuswal wrote: »

Below is a decadal (except 1887-99) of All Irelands won.

The attached file is probably easier to read.

KK were dominant 1900-1919

Cork dominated the 40's and 50's

KK shaded the 60's and 70's and shared the 80's and 90's with Cork.

The rest is history

Since the National League final of 1966, Tipp have won 5, Cork 11, and KK 20!

I trust my figures are correct, if not the error is mine and hopefully someone will correct them

There's no listing for 1888- no final?

Just realised that the display in edit mode is different to what you see in the final version here - attached file should be clearer.


1887-1899 00-09 10-19 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 70-79 80-89 90-99 00-09 2010-
KK 0 4 3 1 4 1 1 3 4 2 2 7 3
Ck 4 2 1 3 1 5 3 1 4 2 2 2 0
Tipp 5 3 1 1 2 2 3 4 1 1 1 1 1
Lk 1 0 1 1 2 1 0 0 1
D 1 0 1 3 1
Wx 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 1
G 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 3
O 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2
Cl 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
W 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Ky 1
La 0 0 1
Lo 0 1

they also shared the 80's and 90's with offaly who won the same as kilkenny

Speak Now

homeofhurling wrote: »

kilkenny always had hurlers with steel, the teams of the 60's 70's 80's were as tough as todays team, Dick O'Hara, the Hendersons Frank Cummins, Paddy Pender, Joe Hennessy, Nicky Orr, Phil Larkin senior and junior, Jim Treacy, John Power i could go on all night here but most of them would walk on to todays team, the problem i would see is Leinster hurling is not as strong as it was in the 70's and 80's with the likes of wexford and offaly have gone way back down the ladder.

another thing kilkenny never went away tipp did from 1972 to 1987

Leinster was strong enough in the 90's as well tbf.

The growler

unrealtime wrote: »

KK won 5 all Irelands from 1982 to 2000 - so what? 5 wins was more than anyone else - a bad time for KK me arse

Aren't you very sensitive! When I mentioned the period 1983-2000 I meant between the All-Ireland victories of 1983 and 2000 they won 2 All-Irelands (i.e the period 1984-1999). I'm not in any way having a go at Kilkenny or saying that was a poor record - it wasn't. It was "comparatively" a lean period for Kilkenny. No All-Ireland between 1984-1991 and 1994-1999 and no Leinster title for 5 years in the 90s. Every county has periods where the titles dry up, Kilkenny are no different in this regard. Of course, it's nowhere near as bad as no provincial title for 16 years.

The growler

piuswal wrote: »

Below is a decadal (except 1887-99) of All Irelands won.

The attached file is probably easier to read.

KK were dominant 1900-1919

Cork dominated the 40's and 50's

KK shaded the 60's and 70's and shared the 80's and 90's with Cork.

The rest is history

Since the National League final of 1966, Tipp have won 5, Cork 11, and KK 20!

I trust my figures are correct, if not the error is mine and hopefully someone will correct them

There's no listing for 1888- no final?

Just realised that the display in edit mode is different to what you see in the final version here - attached file should be clearer.


1887-1899 00-09 10-19 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 70-79 80-89 90-99 00-09 2010-
KK 0 4 3 1 4 1 1 3 4 2 2 7 3
Ck 4 2 1 3 1 5 3 1 4 2 2 2 0
Tipp 5 3 1 1 2 2 3 4 1 1 1 1 1
Lk 1 0 1 1 2 1 0 0 1
D 1 0 1 3 1
Wx 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 1
G 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 3
O 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2
Cl 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
W 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Ky 1
La 0 0 1
Lo 0 1

How did Kilkenny "shade" the 60s if Tipp won 4 All-Irelands to Kilkenny's 3 and contested 7 All-Ireland Finals? Tipp also won 5 leagues in that decade. As for the 50s Tipp and Cork won 3 each.

Interestingly, by the time Kilkenny won their first All-Ireland in 1904, Cork and Tipp had won 6 each. That means that Kilkenny have completely dominated since 1903 - Tipp have 20 since, Cork 24 and Kilkenny 35.

The longest gap without winning for each of the "Big 3" is:
Cork 16 years (1903-1919)
Kilkenny 17 years (1887-1904)
Tipp 18 years (1971-1989)

EIRE1922

The growler wrote: »

How do you know that Tipp "fear" Kilkenny? Is it not simply a fact that Kilkenny are just a better team than Tipp? I'm from Tipperary and it pains me to say it but Kilkenny have fully deserved every victory against us in League and Championship since Brian Cody took over (the only one where we were hard done by was 2009 AI Final, all the others we lost we deserved to lose). In fairness to Tipp, bar the 2003 and 2012 semi-finals, there's been very little between the teams, but Kilkenny are just that little bit better, and have that bit of cuteness to close out games - the end of the League Final this year being an example, when Tipp needlessly put the ball out and Kilkenny worked the winning score very well.

By the way, I also doubt Kilkenny feared Tipp pre-1967. Tipp were just better than them back then like Klkenny are better than Tipp now. Tipp won 7 Munsters in the 60s, and beat Cork 7 times in a row until 1969. Prior to this Kilkenny team the Tipp team of the 60s would have been regarded as the best team of all time.

How were Tipp hard done by in 2009? Benny Dunne got sent off rightly for his dirty stroke on Tommy Walsh in the 53rd/54th minute. Tipperary are then down to 14 men. Richie Power was fouled in or on the edge of the large retangle. Kilkenny were behind at this stage by two. Shefflin had to go for goal from the peno spot and he still would have even if it had only been a 21 yard free given by the ref. Kilkenny's 3 subs all made an immediate impact. T.J. Reid and Michael Fennelly came on and scored a point each. They also laid the off ball on to Martin Comerford who scored the second goal fdor Kilkenny. Game over ball burst!

This Tipperary nonsense that ye should, could, would have won 2009 is a load of cobblers! The match is played for 70 minutes and not 60!

11 of Kilkenny starting 15 scored on the day. Only 5 players scored for Tipperary. Kilkenny 2–22 – 0–23 Tipperary.

Kilkenny:
H. Shefflin 1–8
E. Larkin 0–3
E. Brennan 0–3
M. Comerford 1–0
R. Hogan 0–2
J. Tyrrell 0–1
T. Walsh 0–1
D. Lyng 0–1
R. Power 0–1
T.J. Reid 0–1
M. Fennelly 0–1

Tipperary:

E. Kelly 0–13
L. Corbett 0–4
S. Callinan 0–3
N. McGrath 0–2
S. McGrath 0–1

EIRE1922

There is not point in Tipperary continuing to live in the past!

Brian017

Are Tipp still talking about their moral 2009 title? I'm sure many teams have had similar incidents in the past that they feel went against them and altered the result. But it's in the past now and bringing it up everytime there's a mention of the 2009 final won't change the result

Kkboy

Tipp are a great but flawed hurling team who are unfortunate to be in an era with a truly great hurling team. Still they could get better, had a great minor team in 2012 for example and will go close next year.

Speak Now

Tipp have a great chance next year but they'd want to be going through the front door, was only a puck of a ball away from kk and Tipp meeting in the qualifers again.

Kkboy

First post of the New Year, Happy New Year and more importantly, up the CATS!!!

piuswal

The growler wrote: »

How did Kilkenny "shade" the 60s if Tipp won 4 All-Irelands to Kilkenny's 3 and contested 7 All-Ireland Finals? Tipp also won 5 leagues in that decade. As for the 50s Tipp and Cork won 3 each.

Interestingly, by the time Kilkenny won their first All-Ireland in 1904, Cork and Tipp had won 6 each. That means that Kilkenny have completely dominated since 1903 - Tipp have 20 since, Cork 24 and Kilkenny 35.

The longest gap without winning for each of the "Big 3" is:
Cork 16 years (1903-1919)
Kilkenny 17 years (1887-1904)
Tipp 18 years (1971-1989)

1. I was just referring to All Irelands won, nothing else.
2. I was referring to 2 decades in most cases, but even then the 60s and 70s were shared not shaded, "r" not "d", sloppy proof reading, sorry.
3. I also only concentrated on the top 3, hence leaving out Offaly's achievement, including their back door win having lost a Leinster final to KK.
4. I also left out Dublins 3 in the 20s and the 4 for KK in the 30s
5. The main point I was making is the large difference in All Irelands since the 66 League Final.

Thanks for the additional stats, they make interesting reading.

Happy New Year to all and another great year of hurling.

How can 2014 be bettered? Winning without JJ and Co, I suppose!

EIRE1922

Brian017 wrote: »

Are Tipp still talking about their moral 2009 title? I'm sure many teams have had similar incidents in the past that they feel went against them and altered the result. But it's in the past now and bringing it up everytime there's a mention of the 2009 final won't change the result

Tipp fans seem to only remember the first 54 minutes and the penalty of the 2009 Final and certainly not the last 10 to 15 minutes of it and how it was won by Kilkenny with their sub bench!

The growler

Yep, it's terrible when hurling fans keep going on about refereeing decisions that affected their county in the past. Kilkenny fans (or the manager of the Kilkenny team) would never stoop so low......