Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

deadybai

Its worth noting as well that this was Dublins third week in a row playing with the Walsh Cup final vs Galway.

droppingball

Eoin Murphy again didn't look as assured as he normally does
Tomas Keogh took an early knock and struggled a bit, carries to ball to much instead of moving the ball to safety
Paul Murphy has done better than I expected actually, bit worried if he misses the ball when he attacks it so vigorously that it will lead to goal chances but I think he could adapt well
Jackie will need a bit of work to get the sharpness back but I would have no fear of him and think he will have a good year
Brian Kennedy struggled a bit and his confidence seems low, looks like a guy worried that Cody doesn't have faith in him, we need to stick with him though as he has loads of hurling
Joyce looked slow on the turn and wasn't as dominant as he can be
Buckley had a great game I thought could be a good option at centre back also
Lester and Geoff Brennan made very little impression on the game for me
Padraig Walsh is definitely more comfortable at half back and offers so much more in terms of sweeping up ball there
Walter really struggled again with Kelly offering a bog threat for Dublin
Matty Ruth worked hard and took his goals well
Kelly didn't get a massive amount of ball and was under pressure due to the extra defender but is always a willing runner
Farrell seemed to be winning a lot of ball again and looked sharp, hopefully the referee will do the right thing and rescind the red card
Hogan was well marshalled and couldn't cause as much damage as normal

Only the Dubs on 4 points now and they were full value for their win, more firepower needed for Galway in two weeks and a win will be vital.

randd1

The Premier Man wrote: »

Is that you Eddie keher?

No, I'm just concerned that Cork refs will ref inter county games like the Cork hurling championship. Considering the state of that championship...

ellisbaxter

Well done to Dublin, came with a clear idea, a good team and did the job

At 15 v 15, we were not motoring because (1) Dublin were tight and tigerish (2) they are fitter and have played more games with players settling in new positions ( Carton, Kelly) and (3) regardless of ability, new players/ panel members will struggle to get to the pitch of playing particularly when other established key team members are absent (not an excuse, Dublin looked to have the right system and the skill and physicality to execute it)

We lost to Dublin last year in Parnell Park and still progressed to and winning a league final

Absolute mean spirited and nasty comments about Kilkenny players by someone who claims to be a Kilkenny supporter have rightly been condemned for what they are- ignorant and cowardly and display a total lack of knowledge of how Kilkenny operate since Brian Cody took the job and ignorance about how players develop in different ways. There is a value to a black and amber shirt that far out weighs winning league games in February.

We may well get to a quarter final and in doing so, more will be learned than lost. But every player on that panel today meets the basic requirement to be a player on a Kilkenny panel and if they didn't then they would not be on it in the first place.

Any team or group will struggle when so many key elements are missing, be they injured, retired or with clubs. Despite a few deluded souls who appear to genuinely believe that all Kilkenny need do is to turn up and a game is won, we are actually in a transition that goes beyond injured missing or retired players.

Two tough away games coming up. I hope that every player who started yesterday starts v Galway. There is only one way to learn and that's to be in the middle of it, in the thick of it.

ole ole

brian kennedy had an outstanding game,the new tommy walsh without a doubt,does that make the marys on here feel better?

Hitchens

if Dublin meet ourselves or Tipp in the League Final will they have it as easy?

sasta le

I'm sure Dublin have more training done,kilkenny had team holiday and postponed games

babyjesus14

ole ole wrote: »

brian kennedy had an outstanding game,the new tommy walsh without a doubt,does that make the marys on here feel better?

Kilkenny hurling needs keyboard warriors like you like it needs a hole in the head. Brian Kennedy was an outstanding Minor on the 2010 All- Ireland winning team, he was an Under-21 All-Star in 2013 and at the moment he is struggling to make the step up from underage and Intermediate club to Senior inter-county. But he is only 22 years of age and still has huge potential.

ttowncat

I always liked to think that 'turning on one of your own' with such venom and personal insults was a trait of some of our near neighbours, I thought KK fans were better than that, especially with all the 'diamonds in the rough' that cody has unearthed over the years.

Honestly, I would have fancied Kilkenny if Jonjo hadnt have been sent off, but we'll never know. There was no test for the dublin backs after that. With Paul Murphy at Full back we really have to unearth a new top quality corner back and it's not looking obvious yet as to where that player is going to come from.

Discipline is going to have to be one of KK's biggest attributes going forward, we obviously havent a clue on how to use the ball well when a man (or 2!) down.

citykat

ttowncat wrote: »

Discipline is going to have to be one of KK's biggest attributes going forward,

You'll have to elaborate on this discipline issue for me please. On the Dublin game, I think it's universally accepted that JJ's card was a joke - if anything he was being fouled. I would put Lyng's card down to a desire to win a ball for which he was way late and that's how it looked to me at the time - it was right in front of me. If you think KK have a discipline issue I presume you have the facts to back this up. Plenty of posters have come on here making similar accusations but were unable to back up those slurs with facts when called upon.

ttowncat wrote: »

we obviously havent a clue on how to use the ball well when a man (or 2!) down.

This is a predicament the solution to which has evaded inter county managers like Sheedy, Cunningham and Cody in recent times. I didn't realise that it had finally been cracked. I wait for all to be revealed.

Realt Dearg Sec

citykat wrote: »

You'll have to elaborate on this discipline issue for me please. On the Dublin game, I think it's universally accepted that JJ's card was a joke - if anything he was being fouled. I would put Lyng's card down to a desire to win a ball for which he was way late and that's how it looked to me at the time - it was right in front of me. If you think KK have a discipline issue I presume you have the facts to back this up. Plenty of posters have come on here making similar accusations but were unable to back up those slurs with facts when called upon.




This is a predicament the solution to which has evaded inter county managers like Sheedy, Cunningham and Cody in recent times. I didn't realise that it had finally been cracked. I wait for all to be revealed.

What's with all the hostility?

dastardly00

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

What's with all the hostility?

+1

droppingball

I for one don't think there is any discipline problem with the team and I don't think the poster was suggesting there was either. Surprised there has been no word of an appeal for the first red card as of yet.

Was just thinking of a few issues that lie ahead for Kilkenny:

1. Finding a quality corner back if Murphy plays full back which seems to be going well to be fair.
2. Half back line of Padraig Walsh, Buckley, Joyce looks very solid with the option of Buckley to swap to the centre if the likes of Bonnar or Eamon Dillon exploit us for pace down the middle.
3. Who plays midfield? Lester uses the ball intelligently but does not dominate.
4. Happy enough with the fire power that is to come back in the forwards but what about in the mean time, do we have enough forwards to see us avoid relegation and through to the quarters.
5. It is essential that we make the quarters as we need the games as we are a little behind in terms of game time and hurling.
6. How does Cody get more out of Walter, he still seems to slip in and out of games, Is it worth trying him at full forward or is he suited better with space to run into?
7. Will the likes of Kevin Kelly or Keith Hogan get any game time?

Pity we don't even have one of Eoin Larkin or Richie Power for the league.

MfMan

citykat wrote: »

You'll have to elaborate on this discipline issue for me please. On the Dublin game, I think it's universally accepted that JJ's card was a joke - if anything he was being fouled. I would put Lyng's card down to a desire to win a ball for which he was way late and that's how it looked to me at the time - it was right in front of me. If you think KK have a discipline issue I presume you have the facts to back this up. Plenty of posters have come on here making similar accusations but were unable to back up those slurs with facts when called upon.

Oh I just can't wait to use this line again whenever a KK player get's a crack in a future match!!

Realt Dearg Sec

MfMan wrote: »

Oh I just can't wait to use this line again whenever a KK player get's a crack in a future match!!

The Dublin player didn't get a crack. Lyng didn't touch him. Not sure what your point is.

Hitchens

MfMan wrote: »

Oh I just can't wait to use this line again whenever a KK player get's a crack in a future match!!

an opposition player has never had to leave the pitch and miss game time because of an injury caused by a KK player ..........in my memory anyway

willietherock

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The Dublin player didn't get a crack. Lyng didn't touch him. Not sure what your point is.

Holy Fcuk!

MajaDon

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The Dublin player didn't get a crack. Lyng didn't touch him. Not sure what your point is.

Take a closer look at the incident on TG4 player - you'll see a piece of the Dublin player's helmet "get a crack" and fly off. It was at best a dangerous swipe and only a very biased observer would not call it a red card offence.

Realt Dearg Sec

MajaDon wrote: »

Take a closer look at the incident on TG4 player - you'll see a piece of the Dublin player's helmet "get a crack" and fly off. It was at best a dangerous swipe and only a very biased observer would not call it a red card offence.

Sorry my mistake, I was mixing it up with the Jonjo Farrell incident. I don't think anyone should seriously argue with the lyng card.

ttowncat

CityKat, hold your horses, steady up! Let me clarify so.
I definitely think that KK dont have a discipline problem at all! More so the problems with refereeing at the moment and easy senseless cards. When I say that we have to watch discipline it's more like making sure you dont get caught with these soft cards from certain refs. Unfortunately I'm talking about playing with a 'careful' and tentative style like the first all ireland last year where I felt backs like Jackie were afraid to put a hand on or touch off their markers=rediculous high scoring. I hope it never comes to this! I wonder why KK players were afraid of soft yellows that day-a mystery!

I like Hitchens comments above about when was the last time a KK player injured another player and I would be a fan of the Eddie Keher school of hurling i.e. it's a mans game, it's different to football, and soccer can keep it's cards(to a degree!)

Regards the solution to playing with a man down- Don't get sent off! or at least play Run-And-Handpass 'basketball' that was ingrained into Cork in the naughties. Two years ago in Semple against Cork(Shefflin's 'Red' Card) I dont think anybody was overly concerned about being 5 points down coming up to half time-I felt KK would eventually get into gear and win even playing poorly, but of all teams you dont go a man down to is Cork! We could have been 5 points up at the time and you still wouldnt be comfortable playing against their style! Look at how they beat Galway by reverting instinctively to that style a few years ago in Semple when Donal Og got sent off-

There were instances there on Sunday where some of the players didn't even try to keep short possession. the main example for me was when Lester tried to play a one-two with Joyce in the second half and joyce launched the ball down the pitch (much to Lester's annoyance who let him know about it!)

Orizio

citykat

ttowncat wrote: »

CityKat, hold your horses, steady up! Let me clarify so.
I definitely think that KK dont have a discipline problem at all! More so the problems with refereeing at the moment and easy senseless cards. When I say that we have to watch discipline it's more like making sure you dont get caught with these soft cards from certain refs. Unfortunately I'm talking about playing with a 'careful' and tentative style like the first all ireland last year where I felt backs like Jackie were afraid to put a hand on or touch off their markers=rediculous high scoring. I hope it never comes to this! I wonder why KK players were afraid of soft yellows that day-a mystery!

I like Hitchens comments above about when was the last time a KK player injured another player and I would be a fan of the Eddie Keher school of hurling i.e. it's a mans game, it's different to football, and soccer can keep it's cards(to a degree!)

Regards the solution to playing with a man down- Don't get sent off! or at least play Run-And-Handpass 'basketball' that was ingrained into Cork in the naughties. Two years ago in Semple against Cork(Shefflin's 'Red' Card) I dont think anybody was overly concerned about being 5 points down coming up to half time-I felt KK would eventually get into gear and win even playing poorly, but of all teams you dont go a man down to is Cork! We could have been 5 points up at the time and you still wouldnt be comfortable playing against their style! Look at how they beat Galway by reverting instinctively to that style a few years ago in Semple when Donal Og got sent off-

There were instances there on Sunday where some of the players didn't even try to keep short possession. the main example for me was when Lester tried to play a one-two with Joyce in the second half and joyce launched the ball down the pitch (much to Lester's annoyance who let him know about it!)

Fair dues ttowncat. Good points. I took the original reference to discipline to mean something else. You can see there's plenty on here ready to pounce whenever the issue of discipline arises.

I'm with you on referees especially last week. IMO a red card should only be handed out once in a blue moon - for a serious foul. What JJF did (or allegedly did), didn't merit a red card. The red card, coming when it did, ruined the game as a spectacle. The game itself was played in good spirit. There was no niggle in it up to that.

Regarding the tactics when a man down, I wouldn't be a fan of the short passing game at all. It's a style that's pretty much alien to us. Having to change styles mid match is a big ask. IMO the short passing game doesn't work a lot of the time with 15 so I dont see the merit in adopting it with 14 or less.

Rochelle

ellisbaxter wrote: »

But every player on that panel today meets the basic requirement to be a player on a Kilkenny panel and if they didn't then they would not be on it in the first place.

You keep telling yourself that, do you think Keogh would be anywhere near the panel if he was from Comer, Ballyragget, Mullinavat, anywhere other than the Village? Middling to good club hurler at best.

God forbid any of the lickarses around here might criticise Cody.....

dastardly00

Rochelle wrote: »

God forbid any of the lickarses around here might criticise Cody.....

droppingball

Cody delivers all irelands on a consistant basis, he can try my granny out at centre back if he wants, even though I did hear that the Village Ladies over 70s centre back is a serious stick woman, so maybe Cody will revert to type and pick her.

Realt Dearg Sec

Rochelle wrote: »

You keep telling yourself that, do you think Keogh would be anywhere near the panel if he was from Comer, Ballyragget, Mullinavat, anywhere other than the Village? Middling to good club hurler at best.

God forbid any of the lickarses around here might criticise Cody.....

Yeah there's nobody from ballyragget getting a chance on the team. Oh wait...

Tom Joad

I have deleted the last few posts and the troll has been dealt with. Can we all move along now.

Fireball07

Orizio wrote: »

deadybai

What's happening with Michael Rice? Is he still on the sidelines?

droppingball

Was wondering about Michael Rice, we could really do with a presence like Michael in the team, what a pity he suffered so many injuries. It will be tough for him coming back after so long.

Is Ger Aylward still on the panel?

Kilkennyfella

Mick Rice is very close to making a return to competitive action i believe. Let's hope he has an injury free year this year, he would be a huge addition to the panel especially in the league with so many of our key players unavailable.

dastardly00

Kilkennyfella wrote: »

Mick Rice is very close to making a return to competitive action i believe. Let's hope he has an injury free year this year, he would be a huge addition to the panel especially in the league with so many of our key players unavailable.

Even if he doesn't play that well, or even doesn't make the team, fingers crossed that he can stay injury free!!

Miall108

droppingball wrote: »

Was wondering about Michael Rice, we could really do with a presence like Michael in the team, what a pity he suffered so many injuries. It will be tough for him coming back after so long.

Is Ger Aylward still on the panel?

Ive heard Ger Aylward is abroad but dont take that for definate. Either that or he has been dropped

rockonollie

Has there been any update on the Farrell red card? Any appeal or such? A little out of the loop over here.

citykat

Miall108 wrote: »

Ive heard Ger Aylward is abroad but dont take that for definate. Either that or he has been dropped

I heard he was abroad for a couple of months but is now back training with the panel...

mercury16

Ahh give the lads a break.

Firstly. Dublin are miles ahead of anyone else in their training, and were fitter in Dec than Kilkenny are even now. Cunningham has appoint to prove with them and I wouldn't be surprised if he's going out to win the league.

2) KK are only back from their holidays a month? So based on that and on what we've heard from previous years they haven't even picked up a hurl in training yet. Not too bad if your a regular for a couple of years, but if your a relative newbie to the team, then this lack of hurling becomes more pronounced when playing.

3) When looking at lads in the League you have to consider the following: are they/have they been playing college/Fitzgibbon cup hurling and are therefore fitter than most of their competitors I the league at this tome of the year i.e. Cadogan and Lehane in Cork with UCC. You'll tend to notice that as the year moves on these guys who look great now tend to come back to the pack rapidly as others get a s fit later in the year.

4) Are they new to inter-county hurling - it takes a couple of years to get used to the physicality of it. R Hogan is an animal now, but in his first few years he was pushed left right and centre.

Lastly - Kennedy was flying last year and I remember seeing him give Canning a tough time in the league semi-final in Limerick. So he's not near as bad as some would have you believe.

That being said coming from last year I struggled to think how Matt Ruth, Mark Kelly and John Joe Farrell were Kilkenny standard. This year John Joe has surprised me a bit with his ability to create havoc in the opposition full back line. He's decent in the year, but his striking will always be a big flaw in his game. He had ample opportunities in the game against cork to get a goal and didn't.
Mark Kelly and Matt Ruth try, but you don't have any confidence that they are going to win the ball, ohh they compete, but never win the ball. That's why I think they'll eventually be dropped but Kelly might surprise us. Saying that Ruth is an opportunist around the goal with the ball on the ground like his father, but I don't think he is inter-county standard. That is no slight mind you !

I can't understand how Cody is not playing more of the newer guys and pushing them to win. I think we'll be in the relegation playoff and probably win it. But if we are then why not just play the younger lads and give them a taste and see what comes of it.

droppingball

Good post mercury, i agree with all of it, I find myself warming to Mark Kelly and Jonjo if there striking was better they would be serious hurlers because they win plenty of their own ball. Kilkenny do need to get a foothold around midfield as well, panel looks very bare right now.

Rochelle

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah there's nobody from ballyragget getting a chance on the team. Oh wait...

Poor comprehension skills there RD, I know you're not stupid so I take it you're just pretending to be?

citykat

By my count there must be approx. 15 spaces available on the panel right now. If there are any guys looking to put their hand up, there has never been a better time to do so in all of Cody's reign.
Regarding Keogh last weekend, I thought he actually won some good ball early on but I counted at least of his three clearances to a Dublin player that resulted in scores. Couple that with Jackie's performance and the extra man for the Dubs, the backs were always going to be under pressure. The team was lauded for its performance against Cork and rightly so. I wouldn't throw them under a bus just yet.
I saw most of the senior clubs in action last year and bar John Dalton I didn't see any other back that I thought could do a job at inter county level. From the U21s last year, the only back that caught my eye was the full back, Mansfield, from Mullinavat. I don't get to see any Intermediate/Junior matches so I can't say if there are any notables from those ranks. If there are, they'll surely get a run in the IC intermediate team at the very least. I'm sure anybody who impresses in that team is going to be considered for the senior set up.
If Cody is so biased towards the Village, it's a wonder he hasn't brought a few more into the panel at this time. There's a lot people, even non-Village, wondering whether Scanlon should be given a try.

Realt Dearg Sec

Rochelle wrote: »

Poor comprehension skills there RD, I know you're not stupid so I take it you're just pretending to be?

Well Geoff Brennan is no better or worse than Keough, I'd have thought. I made the same comment as you earlier in the year, that Cody gives more looks to village lads. But I was only being tongue in cheek about it, his record if finding players is far too good to accuse him of that.

What's your opinion of Larkin? When he came in they said he wasn't good enough, it took him years to prove his ability, in the meantime it was claimed his village connections were why he was kept. I'm from the Boro, I still hear people make that claim. It doesn't add up.

dastardly00

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

What's your opinion of Larkin? When he came in they said he wasn't good enough, it took him years to prove his ability, in the meantime it was claimed his village connections were why he was kept. I'm from the Boro, I still hear people make that claim. It doesn't add up.

You could say the same for Jackie as well.

droppingball

It shows that Cody does give guys chance to develop and the likes of Kennedy will be given a chance, it comes down to whether they remain patient, work hard and take the chance when they are ready.

I would think Cody will give the team from the last day another chance for this reason and see can they step up again. Not using many subs has been a bit of a statement from Cody to the new guys on the bench that they will not get a handy run and that they will have to earn their chance and show in training what they can do. Last year was a bit of an exception on that score using so many players but most of them had been on the panel or on the training panel for a year or two, a lot of the subs are complete fresh blood this year.

Cody has a template whereby you earn your jersey by working hard, you fight for it and its never fully yours. The new guys come in and they all realise it and work hard. Everyone knows whats expected of them and none of the panel want to let each other down. I'm hoping for those reasons that the team will be very hungry and get going again against Galway.

dobbs2210

citykat wrote: »

By my count there must be approx. 15 spaces available on the panel right now. If there are any guys looking to put their hand up, there has never been a better time to do so in all of Cody's reign.
Regarding Keogh last weekend, I thought he actually won some good ball early on but I counted at least of his three clearances to a Dublin player that resulted in scores. Couple that with Jackie's performance and the extra man for the Dubs, the backs were always going to be under pressure. The team was lauded for its performance against Cork and rightly so. I wouldn't throw them under a bus just yet.
I saw most of the senior clubs in action last year and bar John Dalton I didn't see any other back that I thought could do a job at inter county level. From the U21s last year, the only back that caught my eye was the full back, Mansfield, from Mullinavat. I don't get to see any Intermediate/Junior matches so I can't say if there are any notables from those ranks. If there are, they'll surely get a run in the IC intermediate team at the very least. I'm sure anybody who impresses in that team is going to be considered for the senior set up.
If Cody is so biased towards the Village, it's a wonder he hasn't brought a few more into the panel at this time. There's a lot people, even non-Village, wondering whether Scanlon should be given a try.

Good point, if Cody is so biased towards the Village would Philly Larkin have walked, Brian McEvoy same, what about Cody dropping his son from the Kilkenny panel, what about Eoin McCormack getting his marching orders. Biased is definitely not in Brian Cody's make up. Cheap shot calling him biased. Reality is the depth in Kilkenny is not what it once was. He will have a very, very strong and competitive first 15 with one or two good additions to spring from the bench and that will be it in my opinion. How many times has Cody won all irelands with "transitional" sides?

citykat

rockonollie wrote: »

Has there been any update on the Farrell red card? Any appeal or such? A little out of the loop over here.

According to the KP they're waiting on the referees report before deciding what appeal to make. It seems definite that there will be some sort of appeal regardless of what is in the report. There will be no appeal on Lyngs card.

droppingball

How long would the suspension for both likely be. A sending off has a massive bearing on the fringe players as a suspension in the league could see and end to their game time for the year.

citykat

droppingball wrote: »

How long would the suspension for both likely be. A sending off has a massive bearing on the fringe players as a suspension in the league could see and end to their game time for the year.

Depends on how serious they judge the foul:

Category II To strike or to attempt to strike an opponent with a hurley, with minimal force. - 4 weeks/ min 1 match ban

Category III To strike an opponent with a hurley, either with force or causing injury. - 8 weeks/ min 2 match ban

rockonollie

Is it just me, or are there more crazy rules than usual proposed for congress this year....bigger sliotars, 3 step limit, minor county players can't play for their club until the season is over.....

unrealtime

Kennedy was brilliant underage but can't see him making the step up now. No chance for Ruth either but Kelly and Farrell need further chances to make it - both are good at getting possession but waste it mostly. I would try Keogh at full; Murphy needs to be in the corner.

babyjesus14

unrealtime wrote: »

Kennedy was brilliant underage but can't see him making the step up now. No chance for Ruth either but Kelly and Farrell need further chances to make it - both are good at getting possession but waste it mostly. I would try Keogh at full; Murphy needs to be in the corner.

Murphy has done well at FB so far only real error was allowing Luke O'Farrell into the square for the square ball goal, wouldn't have happened on JJ or Noel Hickey's watch. I would leave him there for the time being and look for a replacement for him in the corner.

droppingball

I was very skeptical about Murphy at full as I thought the way he attacks the ball would go against him but he has settled in fairly well. There will be moments like when he attacked the ball last Sunday where Rushe slipped in behind and Murphy was at full throttle and he just made sure the ball hit his body and he blocked it as Rushe was in on goal otherwise. The advantage of him at corner was that he was the springboard for a lot of attacks and he covered a lot of breaking ball that JJ used to flick away or that broke from the half back line.

Cody would probably like a presence at corner back who will be able to hold his own physically which may go against Kennedy but as someone else posted he hurled really well on Joe Canning in the league last year. I even remember Kennedy giving him plenty of it off the ball early on which was great to see.

Cody may try Joey Holden at full or corner when he comes back but I'm not sure he would make it at full back at inter county. Willie Phelan and Michael Walsh must be down the pecking order as well. I hope that Padraig Walsh is given plenty of time to bed in at half back as I think this is where he plays best.