Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

citykat

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Well that's me not travelling so. I was willing to spend the 2+ hours up and back to Galway to see how the lads are progressing after the Dublin game but I won't stir an inch now that Kelly is reffing it. I would end up crashing on the way home after thinking of all the crazy decisions he awarded against us and probably Galway too and I don't want to see the kind of game Kelly refs.

Presume this is just tongue in cheek. At this stage I just laugh at these decisions, especially at this time of year. I think Kelly's crown has been stolen by Lyons from Cork after the JJF decision against the dubs. Good to read that the appeal has been made. I doubt it'll be deliberated on for too long.

babyjesus14

I see Colm Lyons is not in action this weekend, looks like he has been sent to the naughty step!

unrealtime

may indeed but a joke but Kelly's refereeing specifically as far as KK is concerned is a joke. He has reffed KK matches since 2001/2002 and in many of these I have been uneasy about his one-sidedness. He will probably show it again against galway but that is the mark of the man. It should not stop us trying to win though - as we have in most of the matches he has reffed.

bruschi

*some* of the Kilkenny paranoia over Barry Kelly is absolutely mental. Not going to games, not going to All Ireland finals :rolleyes:, pre empting mistakes and going to games waiting on him to make a mistake so they can crow "he is out to do us". A lot of counties have hang ups on referees (Galway and John Denton, Wexford and MacSuibhne, etc) but this thing with Kelly is beyond anything I have ever seen before.

deadybai

That's because he is so blatantly one sided against Kilkenny. Thought he was a disgrace last year in the drawn game. And I'm not just talking about the free at the end.
Now I wouldn't go as far as not going to a game just cause he is officiating. That is really silly.

Kenajonn

We need to stop obsessing about referees. Kilkenny have won more than anybody else so they cannot be too bad. If this continues not only will we look bad losers. We will also lose the respect of all other Gaa supporters.

tbiggertycome

Unfortunately I'm not joking I usually don't slate a ref I might disagree with one about a decision but Kelly boils my blood. My time is precious enough as I do a lot of volunteering as well as my job and watching hurling is one of the few times I take for myself. I'm working until Saturday evening and flying out of Dublin on Monday morning and I was going to spend my 1 day off going to the match but with Kelly reffing. I' love to see how the lads are progressing and to see any of the new guys get their chance. I've missed the Cork game and will miss the Clare game due to work.

I really wanted to go to this game and was all up for it until I heard Kelly is reffing. Some will say I'm stupid, crazy, lazy or whatever but I can cite far too many instances in every game I've ever seen him ref and not just Kilkenny games that I don't agree with and multiple instances in every game. The game will be stop and start and you'll hear the whistle more than anything else. If he doesn't ref the game that way it'll be the first time im aware off that he'll have reffed differently. Unfortunately that's not the kind of hurling I want to watch so I'm not going to spend 4+ hours driving to watch that type of game.

tbiggertycome

Kenajonn wrote: »

We need to stop obsessing about referees. Kilkenny have won more than anybody else so they cannot be too bad. If this continues not only will we look bad losers. We will also lose the respect of all other Gaa supporters.

By the way I don't think Kelly has a vendetta against Kilkenny although I can see the reason why people do, he has made some huge calls against us and rarely have they gone our way but I think this is more a result of his style of reffing which clashes with our style of play and not that he has anything personal against our lads. I don't object to him personally, it's more I object to his style of reffing, which is know is personal. I hope you get my meaning.

savannahkat

dcrosskid wrote: »

Proved right???

You missed out on arguably the greatest game of hurling that has ever been played.

Yes, but also a game that would have become an utter farce If Bubbles had scored that last free. Kelly came within two inches of depriving Kilkenny of an
All Ireland. That it happened twice in All Irelands in the past three years is not just coincidence. He has a bias against Kilkenny and his refereeing reflects it

andyman

It should never, ever determine whether you go to a game though.

If anything, if there's a one-sided referee that's when the players need the supporters more.

citykat

Kenajonn wrote: »

If this continues not only will we look bad losers. We will also lose the respect of all other Gaa supporters.

You obviously didn't see any of the comments after the Dublin match...

citykat

tbiggertycome wrote: »

By the way I don't think Kelly has a vendetta against Kilkenny although I can see the reason why people do, he has made some huge calls against us and rarely have they gone our way but I think this is more a result of his style of reffing which clashes with our style of play and not that he has anything personal against our lads. I don't object to him personally, it's more I object to his style of reffing, which is know is personal. I hope you get my meaning.

I also believe Kelly does not have a vendetta against us but he has made some big calls against us in big matches. Maybe it was just wrong place, wrong time and if it wasn't him, we'd be giving out about someone else. I have it on pretty good authority that BC was scathing about Kelly at the homecoming (after the replay) hence the 'criminal' comments. I think the attitude to Kelly among KK supporters has gone overboard and at this stage he's a focal point for general disenchantment with referees.

dastardly00

^^^^^
Well said citykat

dzer2

citykat wrote: »

I also believe Kelly does not have a vendetta against us but he has made some big calls against us in big matches. Maybe it was just wrong place, wrong time and if it wasn't him, we'd be giving out about someone else. I have it on pretty good authority that BC was scathing about Kelly at the homecoming (after the replay) hence the 'criminal' comments. I think the attitude to Kelly among KK supporters has gone overboard and at this stage he's a focal point for general disenchantment with referees.

You wont find a comment from me on refs only for BK I can take a bad ref, a Fat and slow ref, A ref that blows for everything and one that doesn't blow at all. But one that has the ability, intelligence and where with all to be sly corrupt and down right bias that's where I draw the line. Enough on this fool and while I will not travel this week end I will still follow KK and will be back at the next game please God

dastardly00

As was expected, Farell's red card has been rescinded.

From the Hogan Stand:

A statement released today by the Central Hearings Committee explains: “Seán Seosamh Ó Fearail was ordered off for striking with his hurley with minimal force.
“A Hearing was requested as he chose not to accept the proposed penalty.
"On the basis of the video evidence provided, the Hearings Committee found that the Infraction was not proven and directed that the Disciplinary Action be at an end.”
The ruling means the player is eligible to line out against Galway this weekend.

babyjesus14

dastardly00 wrote: »

As was expected, Farell's red card has been rescinded.

From the Hogan Stand:

That is the 3rd red card a Kilkenny player has had rescinded in the last 4 years.. t'would be enough to nearly make you paranoid!

dastardly00

I wasn't sure what our record in Galway over last the while was, so I've looked it up.

Our away results against Galway, during the Cody era isn't too great. KK have won 2, but lost 4.

2013: Galway 3-11 - 0-17 Kilkenny
2011: Galway 4–14 – 3–13 Kilkenny
2009: Kilkenny 1-20 - 0-12 Galway
2006: Kilkenny 1-16 - 0-10 Galway
2004: Galway 0-18 – 1-12 Kilkenny
2002: Galway 0-15 – 0-9 Kilkenny

dastardly00

babyjesus14 wrote: »

That is the 3rd red card a Kilkenny player has had rescinded in the last 4 years.. t'would be enough to nearly make you paranoid!

How does that compare to other counties?

dcrosskid

babyjesus14 wrote: »

That is the 3rd red card a Kilkenny player has had rescinded in the last 4 years.. t'would be enough to nearly make you paranoid!

Shefflin was another, who was 3rd that I can't remember?

I think it's fair that Farrell's card was rescinded. I couldn't make out what he was adjudged to have done.

Still don't agree with the Shefflin red being rescinded. By the rule book Kelly was well with in his rights to have given 2 yellows and they really undermined him by overturning that red and also raising further questions of bias on Noreside.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

dcrosskid wrote: »

Shefflin was another, who was 3rd that I can't remember?

I think it's fair that Farrell's card was rescinded. I couldn't make out what he was adjudged to have done.

Still don't agree with the Shefflin red being rescinded. By the rule book Kelly was well with in his rights to have given 2 yellows and they really undermined him by overturning that red and also raising further questions of bias on Noreside.

What was the offence that Shefflin committed that warranted a yellow card in your opinion when he struck Lorcan McLoughlin's hurl (which the Sunday Game confirmed through analysis of the incident)?

babyjesus14

dcrosskid wrote: »

Shefflin was another, who was 3rd that I can't remember?

I think it's fair that Farrell's card was rescinded. I couldn't make out what he was adjudged to have done.

Still don't agree with the Shefflin red being rescinded. By the rule book Kelly was well with in his rights to have given 2 yellows and they really undermined him by overturning that red and also raising further questions of bias on Noreside.

Eddie Brennan down in Waterford in the league in 2011.
What was Shefflin's first yellow for?

babyjesus14

dastardly00 wrote: »

How does that compare to other counties?

Struggling to think of many others in recent years other than Horgan's against Limerick in 2013 Munster Final.

dcrosskid

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

What was the offence that Shefflin committed that warranted a yellow card in your opinion when he struck Lorcan McLoughlin's hurl (which the Sunday Game confirmed through analysis of the incident)?

Well if the Sunday Game said so....

Seriously though, from what I recall he got the 1st yellow for dangerous use of the hurley i.e. slapping down across McLoughlin. The fact that he hit his hurley as opposed to his hand is meaning less.

2nd yellow was high and he was playing with fire at that stage.

rockonollie

babyjesus14 wrote: »

That is the 3rd red card a Kilkenny player has had rescinded in the last 4 years.. t'would be enough to nearly make you paranoid!

No need for conspiracies......these are all individual cases.

In this case, a player received a red card for striking, appealed, and under review there was no evidence of any strike.

Do you think it would have been a different result for any other county?

babyjesus14

rockonollie wrote: »

No need for conspiracies......these are all individual cases.

In this case, a player received a red card for striking, appealed, and under review there was no evidence of any strike.

Do you think it would have been a different result for any other county?

That is my point, it is not just one case, there's been 3 cases in recent years involving the same county. How many incidents can you think of involving other counties?

Gentleman Off The Pitch

dcrosskid wrote: »

Well if the Sunday Game said so....

Seriously though, from what I recall he got the 1st yellow for dangerous use of the hurley i.e. slapping down across McLoughlin. The fact that he hit his hurley as opposed to his hand is meaning less.

2nd yellow was high and he was playing with fire at that stage.

It still amazes me that there are people who can justify that yellow for something that probably happens dozens of times per game without even a free, and in the context of what Kelly let go/missed that day, it makes the decision all the more farcical. I dare say they'd have a different opinion of the decision if it involved a player from their own county.

Anyway, I'm not going to say any more on this, there's little point in raking over old coals now

rockonollie

babyjesus14 wrote: »

That is my point, it is not just one case, there's been 3 cases in recent years involving the same county. How many incidents can you think of involving other counties?

My point is that it may add up to 3 cases in 4 years. But they are INDIVIDUAL cases......

Players get red cards, feel they're injust, and appeal.

If other counties don't take advantage of the appeals process, how is that Kilkenny's fault?

bruschi

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Struggling to think of many others in recent years other than Horgan's against Limerick in 2013 Munster Final.

off the very top of my head:
Diarmuid Connolly AI semi final v Donegal
Michael Murphy V Cavan
Eoin Cadogan v Armagh
Graham Canty v someone I cant remember
Lee Keegan v Kerry
Some Meath footballer recently too.
Westmeath minor Israel Ulungu

and I know there is a heap more I cant remember right now

I know they are mostly football, but its rare enough to have red cards in hurling. The JonJo Farrell decision was absolutely baffling at the time. But there is no conspiracy. Its ridiculous that it is even thought of.

rockonollie

Add

Pearse O'Neill - Cork
Ciara McKeever - Armagh
Dan Gordon - Down

Don't forget Andrew Shore who's just had a 48-week ban lifted after blatently breaking the rules.

Browney7

bruschi wrote: »

off the very top of my head:
Diarmuid Connolly AI semi final v Donegal
Michael Murphy V Cavan
Eoin Cadogan v Armagh
Graham Canty v someone I cant remember
Lee Keegan v Kerry
Some Meath footballer recently too.
Westmeath minor Israel Ulungu

and I know there is a heap more I cant remember right now

I know they are mostly football, but its rare enough to have red cards in hurling. The JonJo Farrell decision was absolutely baffling at the time. But there is no conspiracy. Its ridiculous that it is even thought of.

The fact that Kilkenny play more games as well as they're consistently at the business end of the championship must come into it.

Decisions go for and against teams all the time. The decision by McGrath (I think) not to send off Donal O'Grady was a shocking decision last year against Kk but Delaney could have walked by the letter of the law (a harsh rule it must be said) for pulling Dowling's face guard in the first half.

You can look at every decision in a game if you want. Kelly reffed two limerick games last year. Dowling had a goal disallowed by Kelly for playing the Hurley which was widely debated. Could have cost us the game. Bonner Maher whilst probably being fouled took a heap of steps for his goal. That's a debatable 6 point swing. Refs make mistakes. To think refs have it in for Kk is very clare in the 90s under loughnane esque.

savannahkat

bruschi wrote: »

off the very top of my head:
Diarmuid Connolly AI semi final v Donegal
Michael Murphy V Cavan
Eoin Cadogan v Armagh
Graham Canty v someone I cant remember
Lee Keegan v Kerry
Some Meath footballer recently too.
Westmeath minor Israel Ulungu

and I know there is a heap more I cant remember right now

I know they are mostly football, but its rare enough to have red cards in hurling. The JonJo Farrell decision was absolutely baffling at the time. But there is no conspiracy. Its ridiculous that it is even thought of.

No it is not. Brian Cody described Kelly's decision as criminal (which t was) and would never have resorted to the use of such words if he was not deeply angry. That the same ref did it in two All Ireland finals is way too much to to accept anything other than bias.

bruschi

savannahkat wrote: »

No it is not. Brian Cody described Kelly's decision as criminal (which t was) and would never have resorted to the use of such words if he was not deeply angry. That the same ref did it in two All Ireland finals is way too much to to accept anything other than bias.

so you think there is an all out conspiracy with all refs which is why the red cards have been rescinded?

rockonollie

Farrell's red card was clearly a mistake, and a poor call by the ref.....but that happens.

If it was a case of the ref being part of some conspiracy to send off Kilkenny players, then he had plenty of opportunities to do it other than the Farrell incident. I'm not saying that other players got away with what should have been red cards, but if it was the refs intention to send of a player, there were other incidents that were much closer to strikes than the Farrell incident.

It was poor judgement in a fast pace game.....it was a just appeal, and the correct decision has been made.

savannahkat

bruschi wrote: »

so you think there is an all out conspiracy with all refs which is why the red cards have been rescinded?

Nope, Just Barry Kelly.

bruschi

savannahkat wrote: »

Nope, Just Barry Kelly.

Well that had nothing to do with what you quoted me on.

Even if it is still ridiculous to think Barry Kelly has a conspiracy to be against Kilkenny.

unrealtime

The problem is not re red cards as far as I am concerned. I have a problem with Kelly's generally biased refereeing going back many years now.

I know it's probably too difficult to show this now but an analysis of games that he has reffed would show a wide disparity in the frees awarded by Barry Kelly against KK compared to those awarded to KK. There was some discussion and figures for this in games in more recent years on another site that showed very very significant discrepancies.

In my opinion Kelly has shown clear bias against KK on several occasions going back more than 10 years. I attended the great majority of these games and the bias is unmistakeable. This has been commented on for a long time now on other sites where KK hurling was discussed. I have no doubt but that the bias will continue.

babyjesus14

bruschi wrote: »

off the very top of my head:
Diarmuid Connolly AI semi final v Donegal
Michael Murphy V Cavan
Eoin Cadogan v Armagh
Graham Canty v someone I cant remember
Lee Keegan v Kerry
Some Meath footballer recently too.
Westmeath minor Israel Ulungu

and I know there is a heap more I cant remember right now

I know they are mostly football, but its rare enough to have red cards in hurling. The JonJo Farrell decision was absolutely baffling at the time. But there is no conspiracy. Its ridiculous that it is even thought of.

I am talking about hurling, why don't you start listing off Rugby and soccer red cards while you are at it!

bruschi

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I am talking about hurling, why don't you start listing off Rugby and soccer red cards while you are at it!

well if that is the sort of contribution you want to bring forward, then at least I know I wont have to discuss it any further.

babyjesus14

bruschi wrote: »

well if that is the sort of contribution you want to bring forward, then at least I know I wont have to discuss it any further.

You have lost me? This is a Kilkenny Hurling Thread, the relevance of sendings off in football to the current discussion baffles me!

rockonollie

The current discussion revolved around the appeal of red cards, and apparently how kilkenny are the only county to do it. Football is quite relevant, it's the same organization, and the same discipline/appeal process.

babyjesus14

rockonollie wrote: »

The current discussion revolved around the appeal of red cards, and apparently how kilkenny are the only county to do it. Football is quite relevant, it's the same organization, and the same discipline/appeal process.

Different referees , different rules, different sport. Completely irrelevant to the discussion on whether HURLING referees and targeting Kilkenny HURLERS!

babyjesus14

rockonollie wrote: »

The current discussion revolved around the appeal of red cards, and apparently how kilkenny are the only county to do it. Football is quite relevant, it's the same organization, and the same discipline/appeal process.

Well that is complete nonsense!

mercury16

Does Barry Kelly have a thing 'agin' KK conscious or unconscious I would have to say he has. Do others out there , well lets just say I'd rather Barry reffing us than a Tipp ref.

That being said, this thread is going to go into melt down if you keep feeding the few trolls from other counties on here.

As a topic of discussion, as a KK man, I already know this as does many other KK folk out there. And pretty much all of us agree. The only folks that don't or pretend not too, are the trolls.

Therefore please ignore any further comments on this well discussed and agreed point and lets move on.

Team for Sunday please? Did John Joe get off, with the red, and if not who's taking his place ?

rockonollie

mercury16 wrote: »

Does Barry Kelly have a thing 'agin' KK conscious or unconscious I would have to say he has. Do others out there , well lets just say I'd rather Barry reffing us than a Tipp ref.

That being said, this thread is going to go into melt down if you keep feeding the few trolls from other counties on here.

As a topic of discussion, as a KK man, I already know this as does many other KK folk out there. And pretty much all of us agree. The only folks that don't or pretend not too, are the trolls.

Therefore please ignore any further comments on this well discussed and agreed point and lets move on.

Team for Sunday please? Did John Joe get off, with the red, and if not who's taking his place ?

Maybe you shouldn't ignore too many comments.....this whole discussion started because of the news of Farrell's appeal being won.

Realt Dearg Sec

mercury16 wrote: »

Does Barry Kelly have a thing 'agin' KK conscious or unconscious I would have to say he has. Do others out there , well lets just say I'd rather Barry reffing us than a Tipp ref.

That being said, this thread is going to go into melt down if you keep feeding the few trolls from other counties on here.

As a topic of discussion, as a KK man, I already know this as does many other KK folk out there. And pretty much all of us agree. The only folks that don't or pretend not too, are the trolls.

Therefore please ignore any further comments on this well discussed and agreed point and lets move on.

Team for Sunday please? Did John Joe get off, with the red, and if not who's taking his place ?

Farrell is available for Sunday. I'd presume we'll see something similar to previous two outings tbh. I'd still like to see Keith Hogan and Kevin Kelly on the field.

Anyone know what the craic is with Tyrell doing that TV show? Does he have to go over to Miami during the season or miss training or anything? Or is it all filmed at this stage or what? I heard the baseball player was over playing in goals for the Village against Ballyragget recently.

dastardly00

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Anyone know what the craic is with Tyrell doing that TV show? Does he have to go over to Miami during the season or miss training or anything? Or is it all filmed at this stage or what? I heard the baseball player was over playing in goals for the Village against Ballyragget recently.

According to his Twitter, he was in the US last week playing baseball. And he's definitely back in Ireland now because he got a new Opel Insignia a few hours ago! :pac:

babyjesus14

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Farrell is available for Sunday. I'd presume we'll see something similar to previous two outings tbh. I'd still like to see Keith Hogan and Kevin Kelly on the field.

Anyone know what the craic is with Tyrell doing that TV show? Does he have to go over to Miami during the season or miss training or anything? Or is it all filmed at this stage or what? I heard the baseball player was over playing in goals for the Village against Ballyragget recently.

As far as i know Tyrells' contribution was shot over the last couple of weeks and he is available for Sunday. Would imagine John Power will start on Sunday more than likely for Geoff Brennan with Richie Hogan moving to midfield. Interesting to see if Keogh and Kennedy are given a shot at redemption, both were poor the last day.

nice_guy80

Whatever happened to taking your punishment?

Cody and co are beginning to look like bullies.

dirkmeister

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Whatever happened to taking your punishment?

Cody and co are beginning to look like bullies.

Go on, I'll bite.

How are they bullies?

Realt Dearg Sec

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Whatever happened to taking your punishment?

Cody and co are beginning to look like bullies.

You only take your punishment if you did something wrong. Being punished for nothing is the definition of being bullied. Farrell was in the right. That's why he won the appeal, in case you missed it.