Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

citykat

BORO BILL wrote: »

still think Kilkenny will pull through. They need to forget about the short puckouts and their obsession with marking the sweeper. They seemed to change their whole gameplan to nullify the sweeper.The forwards need to improve all right and win their own ball.Thought young Donnelly had a good first half but was replaced at half time, must be carrying an injury, and leahy is a real talent in the middle of the field.The game in croke park will have brought galway on a lot though.

Agree on the short puck outs. I don't know if management are advising the players on this but at minor level short puck outs should be avoided. Puts too much pressure on the receiver who generaly hits it as far as the keeper would anyway.
Donnelly actually came back on the pitch for ET.

citykat

buiscuit2168 wrote: »

Hoban doesn't have the psyche to manage 18 year olds. He drops lads for studying for their LC, drops them for missing a training session. Fair enough but he is dropping good lads and he should talk to the lads, lay down the rules at the start, instead of leaving them a nervous wreck wondering if they are doing the right thing. And there is no reward for loyalty. If they don't have respect for him as a person then how does he expect to perform with undying loyalty.

I know of one lad who was under pressure to train but prioritised the LC. This lad is still on the panel. I thought this lad might actually make the team and am surprised he hasn't gotten a run yet. I presume it's because he's now not playing well enough in training/challenges.
Talking to one of the panel members, there were plenty of lads doing the LC who trained all through. Any trainer is going to be loyal (to an extent) to the lads who trained.

droppingball

I thought the treatment of Donnelly was odd, suffers a bit with mobility but picked off two beautys in the first half and has been a good scoring forward when he gets on ball and also lays it off well. Hoban went to him on way back out on the pitch and you could see Donnelly was devastated. He was then brought back on in extra time and taken off again. His confidence will be shot. The other forwards that started seem to be physical but lack scoring threat. I would consider leaving Leahy in the forwards with maybe Hennessy from Tullogher who has hurled well when he comes in the forwards also.

Cornerback1

As an aside, will TG4 be showing the minor replay on Sunday?

Brian017

Cornerback1 wrote: »

As an aside, will TG4 be showing the minor replay on Sunday?

Yes, according to their website, they will

Cornerback1

Brian017 wrote: »

Yes, according to their website, they will

Good job. Thanks.

thinlizzy51

thought the subs that came on for the minors all played well.played better than the man they replaced.also the 9 Connolly in midfield seemed to have no pace at all didn't seem physically up to it.on the senior game looked at it again on the player and I wss impressed by Derek mcgraths interview. very gracious in defeat.also felt ken mcgrath and alot of Waterford people I met were very frustrated that they didn't give it a go in the last 10 minutes. feel this will happen more with their supporters next year if they persist with this system.

brookville

Major fear pushing up and not given the full back any protection his limited enough anyway but we seen ourselves in the league murphy got cleaned when left isolated,they'll have to improve things for next year but like clare two year ago the suprise is gone and teams have copped on to there style of play,any word on jackies injury?he was to have an idea tuesday how things are going

sheff the ref

Is Kilkenny training open to the public these days?

Cornerback1

sheff the ref wrote: »

Is Kilkenny training open to the public these days?

I'd say it'll be a closed shop to the week before the All Ireland Final. Then when all the hard work is done, they'll have an open night on the Wednesday night and the Friday night.

Cornerback1

brookville wrote: »

Major fear pushing up and not given the full back any protection his limited enough anyway but we seen ourselves in the league murphy got cleaned when left isolated,they'll have to improve things for next year but like clare two year ago the suprise is gone and teams have copped on to there style of play,any word on jackies injury?he was to have an idea tuesday how things are going

Never heard about JT's injury. I suppose there's no panic on it this week but he'd want to get back into action asap.

Shane P done ok on Sunday past although him and Joey had Paul Murphy as backup - it'll hardly be like in the final!!

sheff the ref

When is their first night back this week? That may also be open?

Cornerback1 wrote: »

I'd say it'll be a closed shop to the week before the All Ireland Final. Then when all the hard work is done, they'll have an open night on the Wednesday night and the Friday night.

Cornerback1

sheff the ref wrote: »

When is their first night back this week? That may also be open?

Not sure - was supposed to be a club week-end this week-end but minor replay has put paid to that. I'm not sure that they'll have any more open nights bar the 2 I mentioned above. I could be wrong but that's how it was last year. I came down from the north to watch one of them.

tbiggertycome

sheff the ref wrote: »

When is their first night back this week? That may also be open?

First night back was tonight. I think most of them were enjoying the time off, but perhaps it was felt they may have been enjoying it a bit too much so get them back in to put the feet on the ground.

As far as I know Jackie is back in the end of this week or early next week to see the consultant. They'll take the boot off and test the foot. If all ok he can get back to training. AFAIK he's been keeping himself as fit as he can in the limitations of the boot. He'll do everything he can to get back.

Deathwish4

Brian017 wrote: »

Yes, according to their website, they will

God Bless TG4

bart simpson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyoby1mnWVA

a filler segment for the thread! best of the 10 all irellands , what was your favorite year?

adrian522

Hard to look past 2009, but 2006 is a very close second.

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

Hard to look past 2009, but 2006 is a very close second.

2009 was the best AI ever, probably the best game of hurling ever played, and you have no idea how hard it is for a Tipp man to admit that

babyjesus14

bart simpson wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyoby1mnWVA

a filler segment for the thread! best of the 10 all irellands , what was your favorite year?

2006 for what it meant, depriving Cork of 3 in a row, which they had done to us 2 years previously. But more significantly if we didn't win that year chances are Brian Cody would have jumped/may even have been pushed but either way it probably would have had a major bearing on how the subsequent years panned out.

Toblerone1978

Quote: babyjesus14
2006 for what it meant, depriving Cork of 3 in a row, which they had done to us 2 years previously. But more significantly if we didn't win that year chances are Brian Cody would have jumped/may even have been pushed but either way it probably would have had a major bearing on how the subsequent years panned out.


Likewise for me. Living near the Tipp border, I normally rate a win against Tipp above everything else.

But 2006 was special. We were the underdogs, even if JJ was fit we would still have been the underdogs. But the lads brought a work rate on the day that we never saw before but accustomed to now. Remember James Ryall's chase back to flick the ball off Ben O'Connor's hurl?

And then to stop Cork's 3-in-a-row, our biggest rivals at the time. After they stopped our attempt. A glorious day.

savannahkat

2000 for the simple reason we were in danger of losing 3 in a row. The defeat of Tipperary in 2011. They had beaten us in 2010 as well as waltzing through the under 21 . It looked like they were going to dominate but Kilkenny's win that year put that to bed.

longshotvalue

The next one is always the best one. Every year i'm telling anyone from outside kk that id be happy with just one more and sure we've had a great run etc;).

Hope it goes on and on even longer. Since 2006 the only times we've lost and all ireland really is due to injuries or sending off of Henry..

This year i'm actually more impressed with the workrate than ever before (it looks up another level again this year). If we can just get a score or 2 out of 2-3 of the forwards i think we would be unstoppable. But that's easier said than done.

The growler

aidankkk wrote: »

Since 2006 the only times we've lost and all ireland really is due to injuries or sending off of Henry.

Fair enough that the injuries in 2010 didn't help ye but nobody forced ye to start a man with a serious cruciate injury in the final. It was always a huge risk he'd have to go off injured and provide a boost to the opposition. Surely there were options on the bench to start instead - if not it hints at a lack of strength in depth which was exposed that year by the opposition.

And as for the sending off of Henry in 2013, it's not as if he was pulling up trees in that game (neither were his team-mates). Oh, and another thing, I seem to recall ye benefitting from another controversial refereeing decision in an All Ireland Final. Swings and roundabouts my friend.

hurler on de ditch

aidankkk wrote: »

The next one is always the best one. Every year i'm telling anyone from outside kk that id be happy with just one more and sure we've had a great run etc;).

Hope it goes on and on even longer. Since 2006 the only times we've lost and all ireland really is due to injuries or sending off of Henry..

This year i'm actually more impressed with the workrate than ever before (it looks up another level again this year). If we can just get a score or 2 out of 2-3 of the forwards i think we would be unstoppable. But that's easier said than done.

the only times ye lost was when the other team was better

brookville

I wouldn't be making excuses tipp were very good in 2010,I always tought brian hogans loss was underestimated in that final but no doubt bout henry being a huge loss also,in 2013 kk huffed and puffed in the championship and against cork but if a few small decisions had to go there way who knows?We had a goal that was rightly disallowed we should of had a point that was wide and missed a load of frees we'd normally score,tj came on near the end while not being even on the programme,think we'll blame bruce springsteen for that one....

unrealtime

we were seriously understrength in 2010 and with a full team would have had no difficulty beating Tipp as we have proved ever since.

As regards swings and roundabouts O'Neills swing on Larkin was a straight red but of course Kelly as ref which explains well what happened.

babyjesus14

unrealtime wrote: »

we were seriously understrength in 2010 and with a full team would have had no difficulty beating Tipp as we have proved ever since.

As regards swings and roundabouts O'Neills swing on Larkin was a straight red but of course Kelly as ref which explains well what happened.

Ah Jaysus lads will ye let it go, injuries are part of sport as are referring decisions. We didn't win in those years because we weren't good enough!
Let's just hope that TJ and Richie stay fit this year so we are not making excuses for the next 5 years!

brookville

Think we'd all agree that tipp match in the park the park in 2013 was as good as an all ireland it's something that any kk supporter will never forget,anyone give galway a chance sunday?I'd fear for tannion and hanbury with the tipp fowards flying around.tipp will feel they'll have to deliver an Ireland this year for o shea and with half of kk panel retired from last year it's now or never

The growler

unrealtime wrote: »

we were seriously understrength in 2010 and with a full team would have had no difficulty beating Tipp as we have proved ever since.

As regards swings and roundabouts O'Neills swing on Larkin was a straight red but of course Kelly as ref which explains well what happened.

It's a matter of opinion I suppose as regards what would have happened in 2010 had all your team been available. Your most high profile injury (Shefflin) was held scoreless from play in the previous year's final. Every team suffers injuries in any given year. It wasn't as if ye were decimated by injuries in 2010, e.g. losing half the team. Brian Cody was very gracious in defeat afterwards and used no excuses.

Anyway, my basic point is that you win what you deserve and Kilkenny have deservedly won a lot in recent years. They didn't win in 2010 and 2013 because they weren't good enough. Fact.

babyjesus14

brookville wrote: »

Think we'd all agree that tipp match in the park the park in 2013 was as good as an all ireland it's something that any kk supporter will never forget,anyone give galway a chance sunday?I'd fear for tannion and hanbury with the tipp fowards flying around.tipp will feel they'll have to deliver an Ireland this year for o shea and with half of kk panel retired from last year it's now or never

Can't see Galway winning on Sunday, none of the Cork backline would get in the Tipp team(or Kilkenny team for that matter) so it'll be a completely different scenario for the likes of Mannion, Flynn and Glynn, they will be back swimming with the big fish! They will really need Canning to discover his best form and as you rightly point out i still don't think the have dealt with the on going issue with the spine of their defense.
As regards being now or never for Tipp., can't agree with you there the age profile of their team would suggest they will be competitive over the next few years.

Toblerone1978

unrealtime wrote: »

we were seriously understrength in 2010 and with a full team would have had no difficulty beating Tipp as we have proved ever since.

As regards swings and roundabouts O'Neills swing on Larkin was a straight red but of course Kelly as ref which explains well what happened.

Tipp were the best team in the country in 2010 by a country mile. Use all the 'ifs' abd 'buts' you want but i don't think anyone with a decent hurling brain could argue with that. The best team in the country that year won the AI that year so let it go.

It's almost as annoying when Tipp fans bring up the penalty in 2009. I always asked them who were the best team in 2009, Kilkenny, so why dispute the fact they were AI champions that year, particularly over 'ifs' amd 'buts'.

The growler

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

Tipp were the best team in the country in 2010 by a country mile. Use all the 'ifs' abd 'buts' you want but i don't think anyone with a decent hurling brain could argue with that. The best team in the country that year won the AI that year so let it go.

It's almost as annoying when Tipp fans bring up the penalty in 2009. I always asked them who were the best team in 2009, Kilkenny, so why dispute the fact they were AI champions that year, particularly over 'ifs' amd 'buts'.

Aye, it's a fair point. Tipp fans like to use excuses for 2009 but dismiss kk excuses for 2010. The best team in each of those years won the All Ireland.

Realt Dearg Sec

I'm inclined to agree with Cody, that not every match is win by the best team, but every all Ireland is. Making excuses is only letting yourself off the hook. Tipp were better, we've been better ever since.

savannahkat

What a load of auld rubbish. Tthe dog in the street knows that but for injury Tipp would never have kept the ball pucked out to kilkenny in 2010. I don't believe in this politically correct carry on,, exposed by some on here that the best team always win. the best team on the day maybe but that was anything but Kilkenny's best team in 2010.
(2011, 2012, 13 and 14 have subsequently proven this.)

blackcard

It was Tipp"s year in 2010, it would be very poor form if we begrudged them a win for all their good performances over the last 6 years, anyway it made 2011 all the better. I expect we will be meeting them again this year.

The growler

savannahkat wrote: »

What a load of auld rubbish. Tthe dog in the street knows that but for injury Tipp would never have kept the ball pucked out to kilkenny in 2010. I don't believe in this politically correct carry on,, exposed by some on here that the best team always win. the best team on the day maybe but that was anything but Kilkenny's best team in 2010.
(2011, 2012, 13 and 14 have subsequently proven this.)

Well if you're taking your advice from listening to a dog on the street it might explain the gibberish you're just after posting.....

dastardly00

savannahkat wrote: »

What a load of auld rubbish. Tthe dog in the street knows that but for injury Tipp would never have kept the ball pucked out to kilkenny in 2010. I don't believe in this politically correct carry on,, exposed by some on here that the best team always win. the best team on the day maybe but that was anything but Kilkenny's best team in 2010.
(2011, 2012, 13 and 14 have subsequently proven this.)

You must have been out in the sun too much today.
Making excuses for why we didn't win in 2010 is ridiculous. Tipp beat us fair and square. Get over it.

Realt Dearg Sec

savannahkat wrote: »

What a load of auld rubbish. Tthe dog in the street knows that but for injury Tipp would never have kept the ball pucked out to kilkenny in 2010. I don't believe in this politically correct carry on,, exposed by some on here that the best team always win. the best team on the day maybe but that was anything but Kilkenny's best team in 2010.
(2011, 2012, 13 and 14 have subsequently proven this.)

If a team can't absorb a few injuries then they were threadbare to begin with, and I've never been involved with a hurling tan that didn't have to get on with it in the face of injuries. A strong bench is as important as anything else, so if you lose with injuries that still just means your bench wasn't good enough to pull you through. Anything else just sounds like bitterness and begrudgery to me.

dastardly00

aidankkk wrote: »

Since 2006 the only times we've lost and all ireland really is due to injuries or sending off of Henry..

Have you forgotten how bad KK played in the 2013 championship. We were awful. Completely incomparable to the team of 2012 and 2014.
To say that we would have won the AI in 2013 except for Henry's sending off and injuries to other players is very presumptuous.

Realt Dearg Sec

dastardly00 wrote: »

Have you forgotten how bad KK played in the 2013 championship. We were awful. Completely incomparable to the team of 2012 and 2014.
To say that we would have won the AI in 2013 except for Henry's sending off and injuries to other players is very presumptuous.

Yeah the tipp match that year was a major stand, I remember thinking that morning, we may not win this year, we certainly aren't playing well, but it will not be today, not in this park against this team. But there was no shock about losing that year. In a sense, we came from very far back in 2014 to win, that 2013 side looked knackered.

Hitchens

This debate just after jogging my memory. Remember in the 2010 Final for one of Lar's goals, John Tennyson I think it was threw the hurl for which he was yellow carded, and it was highlighted by the media afterwards.

Now I was just wondering have they changed that rule, because a Waterford player threw the hurl when TJ was about to pull the trigger for his goal in the semi-final, and it wasn't mentioned at all on the SG.

Anyone know if the rule was changed?

brookville

They must of changed the rule alright it happened in the u21 match against dublin as well, it actually happens quite often but is rarely punished

babyjesus14

Hitchens wrote: »

This debate just after jogging my memory. Remember in the 2010 Final for one of Lar's goals, John Tennyson I think it was threw the hurl for which he was yellow carded, and it was highlighted by the media afterwards.

Now I was just wondering have they changed that rule, because a Waterford player threw the hurl when TJ was about to pull the trigger for his goal in the semi-final, and it wasn't mentioned at all on the SG.

Anyone know if the rule was changed?

The rule is still the same and i am open to correction on this but i think Coughlan did get booked last Sunday for that. Which is not always the case Paul Curran got away with it on TJ Reid in the '12 semi when already on a yellow and likewise Johnny Coen in the drawn final on Colin Fennelly when he was also on a yellow. So make of that what you will.... is it only a yellow if you are not already on a yellow?!

Toblerone1978

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah the tipp match that year was a major stand, I remember thinking that morning, we may not win this year, we certainly aren't playing well, but it will not be today, not in this park against this team.

Some day, wasn't it. Never experience an atmosphere anything like it, it was tribal stuff. The roar that met the Tipp that came out was massive but the roar of the crowd that me the Kilkenny team nearly took the roof off, unbelievable - talking about marking our territory. The announcement that Henry was added to the sub bench really got the crowd going too. Really highlighted to me the atmosphere that can be created of playing some matches in the smaller stadium.

I remember the week following that match, a guy was saying that he found the atmosphere in the 'Park at the Bruce Springsteen was unreal - I was thinking to myself at the time that he should have been there a week beforehand!

unrealtime

The apparent suggestion that injuries (and we had numerous ones in 2010) have nothing to do with defeats is plain nonsense. Clearly injuries to a number of our best players had something to do with our performances - remember 1973 also.

To suggest that saying this is in someway bitterness or begrudgery is over the top and just plain stupid. It is simply putting forward some apology for our performance.

I do believe that our performances in 1974 and in 2011 showed how important to us what was missing the previous year was.

dastardly00

Nowlan Park announcer: "There have been two additions to the Kilkenny subs bench...."
(Henry & Mick Fennelly)

The whole place went absolutely nuts.
One of the best days ever despite both teams being fairly mediocre.

dastardly00

unrealtime wrote: »

The apparent suggestion that injuries (and we had numerous ones in 2010) have nothing to do with defeats is plain nonsense. Clearly injuries to a number of our best players had something to do with our performances - remember 1973 also.

To suggest that saying this is in someway bitterness or begrudgery is over the top and just plain stupid. It is simply putting forward some apology for our performance.

I do believe that our performances in 1974 and in 2011 showed how important to us what was missing the previous year was.

Myself, and others are negating the effect of injuries in those years because a couple of other posters have strongly made the argument that we would have definitely won the AI if it were not for those injuries.

MfMan

savannahkat wrote: »

What a load of auld rubbish. Tthe dog in the street knows that but for injury Tipp would never have kept the ball pucked out to kilkenny in 2010. I don't believe in this politically correct carry on,, exposed by some on here that the best team always win. the best team on the day maybe but that was anything but Kilkenny's best team in 2010.
(2011, 2012, 13 and 14 have subsequently proven this.)

But for bad sideline tactics Galway would have won '12, had KK on the ropes in the drawn game. But for Eoin Kelly's sly belt on Ollie Canning's knee, Galway had Tipp beaten in '10. Unfortunately 'buts' don't ever win games.

savannahkat

dastardly00 wrote: »

Myself, and others are negating the effect of injuries in those years because a couple of other posters have strongly made the argument that we would have definitely won the AI if it were not for those injuries.

Agreeing with something just to negate something else makes no sense at all. There is more a sense of being politically correct by many posters on this site on this subject than being factually correct. The injuries in 2010 did impact Kilkenny and probably did cost us that final. It is hard to explain why it did not when 2009. 2011, 2012,2013,2014 says otherwise.
I agree with what mFman says about 2012 and Galway. If we had lost that one we could not have had any complaints

dastardly00

savannahkat wrote: »

Agreeing with something just to negate something else makes no sense at all. There is more a sense of being politically correct by many posters on this site on this subject than being factually correct. The injuries in 2010 did impact Kilkenny and probably did cost us that final. It is hard to explain why it did not when 2009. 2011, 2012,2013,2014 says otherwise.
I agree with what mFman says about 2012 and Galway. If we had lost that one we could not have had any complaints

The injuries probably cost us the final?
I thought the dogs on the street knew that the injuries did cost us the final