Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

The growler

No doubt the injuries in 2010 weakened Kilkenny. However, they didn't have to start one of those injured players in the final. It was a huge and unnecessary risk, recovering from a cruciate injury that quickly was unheard of. I'm sure Cody regrets it now looking back. That Tipp team didn't come from nowhere to win, they had pushed Kilkenny all the way in the previous year's All Ireland.

Tipp haven't pushed on since then though (I mean in terms of All Ireland victories - they have won 3 Munster titles since) and until they win another All Ireland the doubts will remain about them. They have a huge test on Sunday before they need to think about Kilkenny again. If the "good" Galway turn up Tipp are in for a real battle.

Toblerone1978

savannahkat wrote: »

There is more a sense of being politically correct by many posters on this site on this subject than being factually correct.

So you can state as a "fact" that if we didn't had those injuries, that Kilkenny would had won that final. How would you know that as a fact that Kilkenny would have won that final?

You don't, you're just talking through your h0le.

And then you accuse me and others of bending this so-called "fact" to be politically correct! As if we ignored the fact that Tipp won by 4-17 to 1-18, that Tipperary completely out hurled us on the day, the unprecedented circus that followed KK for a 5-in-a-row, etc. If you had some decent logic to your argument e.g. Tipp got hammered in their first match that year, or were luck to scrap pass Galway or something like that, I'd say fair enough - but on the basis that we do it to be politically correct shows you really don't have a clue.

Toblerone1978

The growler wrote: »

No doubt the injuries in 2010 weakened Kilkenny. However, they didn't have to start one of those injured players in the final. It was a huge and unnecessary risk, recovering from a cruciate injury that quickly was unheard of. I'm sure Cody regrets it now looking back. That Tipp team didn't come from nowhere to win, they had pushed Kilkenny all the way in the previous year's All Ireland.

Tipp haven't pushed on since then though (I mean in terms of All Ireland victories - they have won 3 Munster titles since) and until they win another All Ireland the doubts will remain about them. They have a huge test on Sunday before they need to think about Kilkenny again. If the "good" Galway turn up Tipp are in for a real battle.

Arguably two, John Tennyson and Henry although John's knee held okay together that day. After beating us that year and murdering Galway in the U21 final, I really Tipp were about to take over. I agree that Cody had to have regrets about his calls for 2010 AI but how he reacted in the subsequent years just says mountains about the legend.

evolving tipperary

Tipp roasted KK in 2010 - absolutely roasted them. Tipp also should have won 2009 - threw it away - KK got lucky. KK won everything else as the best team- no complaints.

danganabu

savannahkat wrote: »

Agreeing with something just to negate something else makes no sense at all. There is more a sense of being politically correct by many posters on this site on this subject than being factually correct. The injuries in 2010 did impact Kilkenny and probably did cost us that final. It is hard to explain why it did not when 2009. 2011, 2012,2013,2014 says otherwise.
I agree with what mFman says about 2012 and Galway. If we had lost that one we could not have had any complaints

Could Tipp not argue similarily that a contentious referee decision cost them in 2009 and that Lar's injury in 2013 cost them??

FWIW I don't agree with that and am just highlighting them to show how ludicrous you're arguement is. But then again it hardly comes as a suprise, without doubt the most biased and blinkered poster on here!

Miall108

Sav Kat has been talking some load of brown on here lately for someone who seemed to be a fairly balanced poster at one stage.

danganabu

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

Arguably two, John Tennyson and Henry although John's knee held okay together that day. After beating us that year and murdering Galway in the U21 final, I really Tipp were about to take over. I agree that Cody had to have regrets about his calls for 2010 AI but how he reacted in the subsequent years just says mountains about the legend.

Agree we should have and haven't pushed on but the U21 is a bit of a red herring imo, Tipp had already gotten everything off that U21 team that they were going to - Bubbles and James Barry aside all the top players on that team were already established on the senior team ( Noel McGrath, Brendan Maher, Padraic Maher, Mickey Cahill, Seamus Hennesy)

Gentleman Off The Pitch

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Tipp roasted KK in 2010 - absolutely roasted them. Tipp also should have won 2009 - threw it away - KK got lucky. KK won everything else as the best team- no complaints.

While Tipp without doubt deserved to win in 2010, I wouldn't agree with the roasting part (although I have never watched the match since the day, understandably enough!).

Despite everything that could possibly go wrong in that match going wrong for KK, they repeatedly fought their way back into that match, only to receive a sucker punch each time.

In the end it finished up 21 scores to 19, when you consider the almost freakish performance of Lar Corbett, 3 touches - 3 goals, doesn't constitute a roasting in my opinion

wingbacknr5

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Tipp roasted KK in 2010 - absolutely roasted them. Tipp also should have won 2009 - threw it away - KK got lucky. KK won everything else as the best team- no complaints.

Tipp were 3 points up that day after 70 minutes, they scored 1-2 in added time to win by 8.

Absolutely they were the better team on the day and deserved to win; but to say they roasted Kilkenny is a bit of an exaggeration no?

unrealtime

The current Tipp team is the greatest ever. One Ireland is a strong testimony to that. They should have beaten Kilkenny in all their championship matches since 2010. How they didn't I'll never know but maybe they're as ****e as Kilkenny are. Still one All Ireland since whenever is a good return for them.

evolving tipperary

I didn't say they hammered them or that they'd annihilated KK... - eight points for me - no matter the minutes or how it came about - is a roasting. A nice cushion is eight points in my opinion.

I'm not saying it's destroying the opposition by any means...because that's not true. I do see it as a healthy margin

evolving tipperary

"The current Tipp team is the greatest ever. One Ireland is a strong testimony to that. They should have beaten Kilkenny in all their championship matches since 2010. How they didn't I'll never know but maybe they're as ****e as Kilkenny are. Still one All Ireland since whenever is a good return for them."

Are you okay?

glued

Miall108 wrote: »

Sav Kat has been talking some load of brown on here lately for someone who seemed to be a fairly balanced poster at one stage.

I must have missed that 'one stage'.

wingbacknr5

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I didn't say they hammered them or that they'd annihilated KK... - eight points for me - no matter the minutes or how it came about - is a roasting. A nice cushion is eight points in my opinion.

I'm not saying it's destroying the opposition by any means...because that's not true. I do see it as a healthy margin

Fair enough. We have different definitions of the term "absolutely roasted" then I guess.

evolving tipperary

Brian Cody loves an 'absolutely'!

wingbacknr5

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Brian Cody loves an 'absolutely'!

Touché;)

glued

What's the problem here?

2009 - Kilkenny were the better team but penalty was dodgy at best
2010 - Tipp better team but KK weren't at full strength
2011 - Kilkenny better team
2012 - Kilkenny better team
2014 - Tipp shaded it IMO
2014 - Replay KK were the better team

There hasn't been a great deal between the two sides but there is no doubt that Kilkenny have had the better of Tipp over this period. Obviously Tipp having 3 different managers over that period doesn't help either. I don't know why some people can't just enjoy the rivalry.

danganabu

unrealtime wrote: »

The current Tipp team is the greatest ever. One Ireland is a strong testimony to that. They should have beaten Kilkenny in all their championship matches since 2010. How they didn't I'll never know but maybe they're as ****e as Kilkenny are. Still one All Ireland since whenever is a good return for them.

Don't pack in the day job friend I don't think the cat laughs festival is quite ready for your cutting edge humour.

Can you show us where anyone suggested anything like you have in that ramble? I mean I assume that the fact it is between quotation marks that someone actually said it?

danganabu

glued wrote: »

What's the problem here?

2009 - Kilkenny were the better team but penalty was dodgy at best
2010 - Tipp better team but KK weren't at full strength
2011 - Kilkenny better team
2012 - Kilkenny better team
2014 - Tipp shaded it IMO
2014 - Replay KK were the better team

There hasn't been a great deal between the two sides but there is no doubt that Kilkenny have had the better of Tipp over this period. Obviously Tipp having 3 different managers over that period doesn't help either. I don't know why some people can't just enjoy the rivalry.

Pretty accurate sumation, savannah is going to eat you without salt though

babyjesus14

This argument is getting a bit silly, i don't know what the age profile of most posters on here is but i an guessing twenty somethings. I first started attending All-Irelands as a child sitting on my fathers knee in the mid 70's while my memories of that decade(probably Kilkenny's best until the noughties) would be very vague, the '80's and the '90's would have been my formative years where 2 All-Irelands would have been considered par for the course.
Unfortunately there seems to be a generation of Kilkenny supporters who see winning All-Irelands as a birthright and then begrudge other teams in the years that we don't win it! Lads, enough the great days that we have had over the last 15 years.... because they will not last for ever!!

danganabu

babyjesus14 wrote: »

This argument is getting a bit silly, i don't know what the age profile of most posters on here is but i an guessing twenty somethings. I first started attending All-Irelands as a child sitting on my fathers knee in the mid 70's while my memories of that decade(probably Kilkenny's best until the noughties) would be very vague, the '80's and the '90's would have been my formative years where 2 All-Irelands would have been considered par for the course.
Unfortunately there seems to be a generation of Kilkenny supporters who see winning All-Irelands as a birthright and then begrudge other teams in the years that we don't win it! Lads, enough the great days that we have had over the last 15 years.... because they will not last for ever!!

Good point, don't expect it to change anytime soon, alot of my fellow Tipp supporters still have that attitude and complex based on our great team of the 60's!!

babyjesus14

danganabu wrote: »

Good point, don't expect it to change anytime soon, alot of my fellow Tipp supporters still have that attitude and complex based on our great team of the 60's!!

Actually my fathers generation seem to be enjoying our current run the most because they suffered for many years at the hands of Tipp back in the '50's and '60's.... and they realise they don't have too many years left!:D

deadybai

I still cant see how everyone thinks Tipp were the better side in the drawn final last year. The game was even throughout until the last ten minutes where I thought Kilkenny were on top then the last two minutes Tipp leveled it. I think its a game Kilkenny left behind them tbh.

dzer2

The growler wrote: »

No doubt the injuries in 2010 weakened Kilkenny. However, they didn't have to start one of those injured players in the final. It was a huge and unnecessary risk, recovering from a cruciate injury that quickly was unheard of. I'm sure Cody regrets it now looking back. That Tipp team didn't come from nowhere to win, they had pushed Kilkenny all the way in the previous year's All Ireland.

Tipp haven't pushed on since then though (I mean in terms of All Ireland victories - they have won 3 Munster titles since) and until they win another All Ireland the doubts will remain about them. They have a huge test on Sunday before they need to think about Kilkenny again. If the "good" Galway turn up Tipp are in for a real battle.

Just as a matter of fact on that day Kilkenny started 4 injured players that yr.

Henry
John Tennison Knee
Tommy walsh Shouilder
Ritcjie Hogan Ankle

I am also nearly certain Ritchie Power was carrying a niggle as well
There was players on the bench who would have performed better on the day but were not selected.

adrian522

I love the way a question was put of which of the All Ireland wins was the best , ends up as a discussion on 2010 with a little bit about 2013.

danganabu

adrian522 wrote: »

I love the way a question was put of which of the All Ireland wins was the best , ends up as a discussion on 2010 with a little bit about 2013.

Perfectionists or just insecure??

tbiggertycome

Ok I'm going to change the tack or try anyway as like babyjesus14 said it's all getting a bit silly but how about trying to pick the Best 15 in position that played for the County since 1990. A lad may have been coming to the end of his career in 1990 but judge each man by how he hurled in his peak but he has to have represented Kilkenny in Senior between 1990 and 2015. It's very hard and shows how lucky we have been to have such talent come through. I tried to do the same with a Tipp friend and we struggled to pick 15 as you'll see with the Kilkenny team there is some talent left on the bench.

Just off the top of my head here are some options

Goalkeeper:
Michael Walsh, James McGarry, Eoin Murphy, PJ Ryan, David Herity...

Right Corner Back:
Eddie O'Connor, Michael Kavanagh, Paul Murphy...

Full Back:
Pat Dwyer, Noel Hickey, JJ Delaney....

Left Corner Back:
Willie O'Connor, Liam Simpson, Philly Larkin, James Ryall, Jackie Tyrrell....

Right Wing Back:
Liam Walsh, Tommy Walsh, Padraig Walsh....

Centre Back:
Pat "Da Nail" O'Neill, Liam Simpson, Peter Barry, Brian Hogan, John Tennyson, Kieran Joyce....

Left Wing Back:
Willie O'Connor, Liam Keoghan, JJ Delaney, Kieran Joyce, Cillian Buckley.....

Midfield:
Bill Hennessy, Liam McCarthy, Andy Comerford, Brian "Tots" McEvoy, Derek Lyng, James "Cha" Fitzpatrick, Michael Rice, Michael Fennelly, Conor Fogarty....

Forwards:
DJ "Dodger" Carey, Charlie Carter, Adrain Ronan, Eammon "Yommy" Morrisey, John Power-Callan, PJ Delaney, Eddie Brennan, Martin "Gorta" Comerford, Henry Shefflin, Aidan "Taggy" Fogarty, Eoin Larkin, Richie Power, TJ Reid, Richie Hogan, Colin Fennelly, Michael "Titch" Phelan......

Pick any six forwards in the positions you think they could work best together.

My team although it changes every time I look at the list.

Micky Walsh,
Kavanagh, Pat Dwyer, Jackie
Tommy , "Da Nail", JJ
Cha, Mick Fennelly
Larkin, Henry, TJ
Eddie, DJ, Richie Hogan

It's very hard!!!!!!

babyjesus14

dzer2 wrote: »

Just as a matter of fact on that day Kilkenny started 4 injured players that yr.

Henry
John Tennison Knee
Tommy walsh Shouilder
Ritcjie Hogan Ankle

I am also nearly certain Ritchie Power was carrying a niggle as well
There was players on the bench who would have performed better on the day but were not selected.

Richie Hogan didn't start in '10, the forward line was Reid, Shefflin, Larkin, Brennan, Power and Fogarty.... i think people are just making sh** up now in this tiresome argument!
And in case you are going to argue he was midfield, Cha and Fennelly were the midfield pairing!

babyjesus14

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Ok I'm going to change the tack or try anyway as like babyjesus14 said it's all getting a bit silly but how about trying to pick the Best 15 in position that played for the County since 1990. A lad may have been coming to the end of his career in 1990 but judge each man by how he hurled in his peak but he has to have represented Kilkenny in Senior between 1990 and 2015. It's very hard and shows how lucky we have been to have such talent come through. I tried to do the same with a Tipp friend and we struggled to pick 15 as you'll see with the Kilkenny team there is some talent left on the bench.

Just off the top of my head here are some options

Goalkeeper:
Michael Walsh, James McGarry, Eoin Murphy, PJ Ryan, David Herity...

Right Corner Back:
Eddie O'Connor, Michael Kavanagh, Paul Murphy...

Full Back:
Pat Dwyer, Noel Hickey, JJ Delaney....

Left Corner Back:
Willie O'Connor, Liam Simpson, Philly Larkin, James Ryall, Jackie Tyrrell....

Right Wing Back:
Liam Walsh, Tommy Walsh, Padraig Walsh....

Centre Back:
Pat "Da Nail" O'Neill, Liam Simpson, Peter Barry, Brian Hogan, John Tennyson, Kieran Joyce....

Left Wing Back:
Willie O'Connor, Liam Keoghan, JJ Delaney, Kieran Joyce, Cillian Buckley.....

Midfield:
Bill Hennessy, Liam McCarthy, Andy Comerford, Brian "Titch" McEvoy, Derek Lyng, james "Cha" Fitzpatrick, Michael Rice, Michael Fennelly, Conor Fogarty....

Forwards:
DJ "Dodger" Carey, Charlie Carter, Adrain Ronan, Eammon "Yommy" Morrisey, John Power-Callan, PJ Delaney, Eddie Brennan, Martin "Gorta" Comerford, Henry Shefflin, Aidan "Taggy" Fogarty, Eoin Larkin, Richie Power, TJ Reid, Richie Hogan, Colin Fennelly......

Pick any six forwards in the positions you think they could work best together.

My team although it changes every time I look at the list.

Micky Walsh,
Kavanagh, Pat Dwyer, Jackie
Tommy , "Da Nail", JJ
Cha, Mick Fennelly
Larkin, Henry, TJ
Eddie, DJ, Richie Hogan

It's very hard!!!!!!

Being pedantic here Brian McEvoy's nickname is Tots, Titch was Micheal Phelan from Glenmore.;)

dcrosskid

KK 15 from a Tipp perspective,

Murphy
Murphy, Hickey, Tyrell,
Walsh, Hogan, J.J.Delaney,
Cha Fitz, Mick Fennelly,
Reid, Hogan, Larkin,
D.J. Carey, Shefflin, R. Power.

Although the 2 Murphy's aren't on the scene too long I think they are exceptional hurler's, especially Paul. Eoin is a very good goalie but I wouldn't have rated any of the other goalies & I am too young to remember Mick Walsh.

The only other difficulties I had after that was leaving Eddie Brennan out and a 2nd midfielder. I might have been tempted to put Richie Hogan midfield instead of Cha & put Brennan in the corner even.

Realt Dearg Sec

That's a very tough team to pick. I went with this:

Michael Walsh
Paul Murphy, Noel Hickey, Willie O’Connor
Tommy, Peter Barry, JJ Delaney
Derek Lyng, Richie Hogan
TJ Reid, Henry, Martin Comerford
Eddie, DJ, Charlie Carter

Midfield was very difficult to pick, I had to leave out Mick Fennelly and Cha. I would imagine most people would have either ahead of Lyng but not me. What I could have done was taken out Gorta and put Hogan in wing forward. But Gorta was my favourite KK player of any era, though probably not the best at any stage, I just loved how he played, his attitude and his humour, and what a danger man he could be (and he provided one of my favourite ever GAA images after scoring that goal in 2009). More objectively you'd probably move Hogan instead of him, And midfield would be something like Cha and Fennelly. But **** it, this is MY team.

adrian522

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Micky Walsh,
Kavanagh, Pat Dwyer, Jackie
Tommy , "Da Nail", JJ
Cha, Mick Fennelly
Larkin, Henry, TJ
Eddie, DJ, Richie Hogan

It's very hard!!!!!!

I don't think in all conscience I could leave out Hickey or Gorta.

Walsh
Kav Hickey Tyrell
Walsh Barry JJ
McEvoy Fennelly
DJ Gorta Henry
Hogan Carter Eddie

Though my memories of the ealry 90's not the best so probably leaning more towards more recent players. One of the O'Connors should probably be in there, maybe John Power too, but Gorta scored that goal against Tipp in 2009 so he has to be there.

dastardly00

Without spending too much time deciding, my pick would be:

Michael Walsh
Paul Murphy, Noel Hickey, Jackie Tyrrell
Tommy Walsh, Pat O'Neill, JJ Delaney
Cha Fitzpatrick, Michael Fennelly
Richie Hogan, Henry Shefflin, Eoin Larkin,
Eddie Brennan, TJ Reid, DJ Carey

adrian522

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

But Gorta was my favourite KK player of any era, though probably not the best at any stage, I just loved how he played, his attitude and his humour, and what a danger man he could be (and he provided one of my favourite ever GAA images after scoring that goal in 2009).

This?

babyjesus14

McGarry
Kavanagh Hickey Tyrell
T. Walsh B.Hogan Delaney
M. Fennelly R.Hogan
Carey Shefflin Larkin
Carter Reid Brennan

citykat

Murphy
Kavanagh Dwyer O'Connor (W)
Tommy Nail JJ
Lyng Tayto
TJ Hogan Shefflin
DJ Power (R) Fast Eddie

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Being pedantic here Brian McEvoy's nickname is Tots, Titch was Micheal Phelan from Glenmore.;)

Of course a slip of the mind not only that but I forgot Titch in the forwards selection too, although it's not exhaustive list by any means.

If you try and do this with any other county it's very hard to have that kind of selection.

tbiggertycome

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Micky Walsh,
Kavanagh, Pat Dwyer, Jackie
Tommy , "Da Nail", JJ
Cha, Mick Fennelly
Larkin, Henry, TJ
Eddie, DJ, Richie Hogan

It's very hard!!!!!!

My second team to try and beat my first selection with no duplicates

Eoin Murphy
Eddie O'Connor, Noel Hickey, Willie O'Connor
Liam Walsh, Brian Hogan, Cillian Buckley
Michael Rice, Derek Lyng,
Titch, John Power-Callan, Gorta,
Taggy, Richie Power,Yommy,

citykat

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Of course a slip of the mind not only that but I forgot Titch in the forwards selection too, although it's not exhaustive list by any means.

If you try and do this with any other county it's very hard to have that kind of selection.

Great work there. Thread getting derailed.

babyjesus14

citykat wrote: »

Great work there. Thread getting derailed.

I like the rails we are on now, the last theme was getting very silly!

thinlizzy51

walsh
murphy dwyer w o connor
tommy nail jj
mick fennelly richie
tj henry dj
fast eddie richie power larks.

my team from the cody era

thinlizzy51

walsh
murphy dwyer w o connor
tommy nail jj
mick fennelly richie
tj henry dj
fast eddie richie power larks.

my team from the cody era

brookville

Anyway the minor team unchanged for sunday,hopefully they can get the job done although I feel they kinda left it behind them.

unrealtime

I'd say Tipp would find it hard to get 15 half-decent players over the timeframe in question

babyjesus14

brookville wrote: »

Anyway the minor team unchanged for sunday,hopefully they can get the job done although I feel they kinda left it behind them.

Thought we were marginally the better team last week but would imagine that Galway would have the more scope for improvement given that it was only their second championship match.
What does Conor Hennessy have to do to get a start? Has made significant contributions the last 2 days when brought on.

lankyme

lankyme wrote: »

Heard that. Heard he dropped a young lad because he had to go to his GF anniversary mass up the country. took him immediately off the list. Young lad told him he wouldn't be back but was and didn't tell Hoban. If he had left him on text he would have got the text and been at training he was sitting at home waiting for text. .

There was some sort of family tragedy. Not just Pat Hoban but all trainers/managers should stop being so blinkered and realise sometimes things happen for reasons beyond a persons control, not just all about GAA.

citykat

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Thought we were marginally the better team last week but would imagine that Galway would have the more scope for improvement given that it was only their second championship match.
What does Conor Hennessy have to do to get a start? Has made significant contributions the last 2 days when brought on.

Surprised at no change in the forwards. Maybe Hennessy and Delaney are now viewed as impact subs rather than starters.
This minor team has ridden their luck in games this year. Hopefully they don't run out of road on Sunday.

Justice for the individual

citykat wrote: »

Surprised at no change in the forwards. Maybe Hennessy and Delaney are now viewed as impact subs rather than starters.
This minor team has ridden their luck in games this year. Hopefully they don't run out of road on Sunday.

I see TG4 has: 1.00 GAA BEO Tipperary v Dublin (throw-in 1.30pm).

Is this a printing error.

I have noticed they have got these fixtures wrong previously.

I presume it should be Galway v Kilkenny (Minor Hurling AI SF replay)?

citykat

Justice for the individual wrote: »

I see TG4 has: 1.00 GAA BEO Tipperary v Dublin (throw-in 1.30pm).

Is this a printing error.

I have noticed they have got these fixtures wrong previously.

I presume it should be Galway v Kilkenny (Minor Hurling AI SF replay)?

No KK on at 12.
Dublin v Tipp at 2. Listed on home page.

Brian017

Justice for the individual wrote: »

I see TG4 has: 1.00 GAA BEO Tipperary v Dublin (throw-in 1.30pm).

Is this a printing error.

I have noticed they have got these fixtures wrong previously.

I presume it should be Galway v Kilkenny (Minor Hurling AI SF replay)?

Well the Sky EPG changed yesterday to show GAA BEO starting at 11:45am instead of 1:00pm. The other minor SF had now moved to 2pm and the senior to 4pm as a result