Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

danganabu

Haven't time to read through all that has been posted since Sunday but just my thoughts on the final.

I really can't see anything but a comfortable KK win, the platform for Galway was that Tipp's half forward line and midfield were completly anonymous, the two corner forwards were completely off thier game, especially Bubbles, when we know what he can do, Paraic Maher proved once and for all that he is not a centre back and could do with a good bollocking that its not all about him, the Galway keeper made two saves that were top top drawer and yet Galway won by a point with two points in injury time??

TJ Reid will have a field day and even if that doesn't work you have Walter Walsh to go in full, Hogan will think all his birthday's have come at once as Tannion wouldn't mark spce and turns about as quickly as an artic, and there is no way in hell that Fennelly and Fogarty will be beaten like our two were.

The only slight doubt you could have is the left corner back and full back positions, but I dont think Galway wil have enough clean possesion in the middle third to exploit that. KK's bench also isn't what we are accustomed to, but to be honest I don't think they will need it.

thinlizzy51

anyone know if the team are training in nowlan pk tomorrow night?

citykat

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

anyone know if the team are training in nowlan pk tomorrow night?

The training isn't usually open to the public until the last week prior to the final, unless you know someone on the gate. 😉

Justice for the individual

A lot of players are now chopping down or swinging the hurley as they go past an opposition player, dangerously, I think.

I notice many players are throwing the ball to a colleague without this being picked up by the referee.

In both the Minor and Senior these were going on.

Is it a coaching instruction as referees are ignoring these two in particular, probably too busy counting the steps.

donnem33

Justice for the individual wrote: »

A lot of players are now chopping down or swinging the hurley as they go past an opposition player, dangerously, I think.

I notice many players are throwing the ball to a colleague without this being picked up by the referee.

In both the Minor and Senior these were going on.

Is it a coaching instruction as referees are ignoring these two in particular, probably too busy counting the steps.

the speed of the game is so fast now its impossible for the referee to keep up with the action so in a way it is understandable how every indiscretion isnt picked up!!

imo its time to go like the aussie rules with 2 referees!

babyjesus14

Justice for the individual wrote: »

A lot of players are now chopping down or swinging the hurley as they go past an opposition player, dangerously, I think.

I notice many players are throwing the ball to a colleague without this being picked up by the referee.

In both the Minor and Senior these were going on.

Is it a coaching instruction as referees are ignoring these two in particular, probably too busy counting the steps.

Yeah, have to agree with you there hurling is nearly becoming as bad as football for dubious handpasses, it is very rarely pulled.
And curiously i was watching Kilkenny doing their warmup before the semi and they were doing a handpassing drill and Paul Murphy was just throwing the ball he wasn't even attempting to handpass... has it come to the stage that if needs be they will just throw it because they know they will more than likely get away with it?

Justice for the individual

donnem33 wrote: »

the speed of the game is so fast now its impossible for the referee to keep up with the action so in a way it is understandable how every indiscretion isnt picked up!!

imo its time to go like the aussie rules with 2 referees!

And it appears acceptable to referees to allow a sub coming on to be greeted with a dig in the gut, ah sure it is jokingly referred to as just a' friendly getting-to-know-you' according to many of the commentators. This foul dirty play should be strictly refereed and policed also by the umpires and linesmen.

We do not want the game too sanitized, but deliberately attempting to injure an opponent is just not on.

brookville

thinlizzy51 wrote: »

anyone know if the team are training in nowlan pk tomorrow night?

Training is definitely closed to the public till all ireland week where they will be just doing drills and puck around.are they away this weekend?

citykat

Justice for the individual wrote: »

And it appears acceptable to referees to allow a sub coming on to be greeted with a dig in the gut, ah sure it is jokingly referred to as just a' friendly getting-to-know-you' according to many of the commentators. This foul dirty play should be strictly refereed and policed also by the umpires and linesmen.

We do not want the game too sanitized, but deliberately attempting to injure an opponent is just not on.

Rubbish. Did you watch the Clare v Limerick match?

Utopia Parkway

danganabu wrote: »

Haven't time to read through all that has been posted since Sunday but just my thoughts on the final.

I really can't see anything but a comfortable KK win, the platform for Galway was that Tipp's half forward line and midfield were completly anonymous, the two corner forwards were completely off thier game, especially Bubbles, when we know what he can do, Paraic Maher proved once and for all that he is not a centre back and could do with a good bollocking that its not all about him, the Galway keeper made two saves that were top top drawer and yet Galway won by a point with two points in injury time??

TJ Reid will have a field day and even if that doesn't work you have Walter Walsh to go in full, Hogan will think all his birthday's have come at once as Tannion wouldn't mark spce and turns about as quickly as an artic, and there is no way in hell that Fennelly and Fogarty will be beaten like our two were.

I doubt Galway will concede 3 goals and a penalty from high balls into the full-back line again. Anything could happen obviously but it was just one of those freak occurrences IMO. I doubt Tannian will picking up Hogan either. I'd bet any money it will be Daithi Burke on him.

brookville

This has being a very active thread lately.daithi burke will shadow hogan no doubt,tannion will surely sit deep protecting the full back because they definitely can't give kk a good start.tan will be probably mark walter if he starts he finished well last sunday infairness to him,harte will probably pick up colin who's due a big game,mannion will probably mark tj,hanbury will pick up larkin with coen on alyward,coady will surely spring a suprise for the all ireland I'd expect richie power for walter

Justice for the individual

citykat wrote: »

Rubbish. Did you watch the Clare v Limerick match?

Are you referring to the Sean Tobin incident?
But how many times have you seen a referee take that action?

citykat

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Are you referring to the Sean Tobin incident?
But how many times have you seen a referee take that action?

How many times have you seen this happen and when?

pmy.murphy

Justice for the individual wrote: »

And it appears acceptable to referees to allow a sub coming on to be greeted with a dig in the gut, ah sure it is jokingly referred to as just a' friendly getting-to-know-you' according to many of the commentators. This foul dirty play should be strictly refereed and policed also by the umpires and linesmen.

We do not want the game too sanitized, but deliberately attempting to injure an opponent is just not on.

Its a mans game

unrealtime

I have to persuade myself that the vicious, deliberate, sneaky swing on TJ was a manly thing. It is a Galway classic and so good that it merited an All Star.

Those who see such a huge problem with hand passes probably don't know what is allowed. It is not an easy area, and I have seen plenty of fouls given for hand passes that were legitimate.

babyjesus14

unrealtime wrote: »

I have to persuade myself that the vicious, deliberate, sneaky swing on TJ was a manly thing. It is a Galway classic and so good that it merited an All Star.

Those who see such a huge problem with hand passes probably don't know what is allowed. It is not an easy area, and I have seen plenty of fouls given for hand passes that were legitimate.

You seem to be such an expert on everything, you tell us what is allowed!

danganabu

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I doubt Galway will concede 3 goals and a penalty from high balls into the full-back line again. Anything could happen obviously but it was just one of those freak occurrences IMO. I doubt Tannian will picking up Hogan either. I'd bet any money it will be Daithi Burke on him.

How exactly are they going to address it, obvioulsy don't trust Hanbury and Mannion is hardly going to learn how to play full back in 3 weeks, TJ is as good if not better than Seamie in the air, and I suspect the supply in to him will be better.

The obvious thing to do is to drop the centre back in front, but that was obvious after 10 mins on sunday and didnt happen, and doing that leaves Richie Hogan to clean up on the 40.

You may be right about Burke but what does that say about Cunningham, all year the centre axis was Tannion and Hanbury, AI semi switch Hanbury and Mannion ( who was having a great year in the corner) and the AI final move your centre back? And where would Tannion go, if he hasn't the pace for Centre Back, he'll get murdered on the wing.

Tannion actually might be an option for full back next year, obviously too late to try this year.

wingbacknr5

danganabu wrote: »

The obvious thing to do is to drop the centre back in front, but that was obvious after 10 mins on sunday and didnt happen, and doing that leaves Richie Hogan to clean up on the 40.

I think Tannion will drop back in front of the full back whoever that is, in a bid to afford them some support in marshalling TJ.

One of the midfielders (probably Burke) will then drop back on Hogan leaving Conor Fogarty free. Fogarty is a scavenger and a very good one, but he is not the sort of player that will destroy you if left free. He will forage plenty of ball whether he has a direct opponent or not, but his striking can be poor and so Galway may decide that leaving him loose is the least worst option.

Of course if Larkin is named at 15 but plays deep it will leave a Galway defender free to help double up on TJ. I would expect one of the Galway midfielders to track Larkin in this instance; again leaving Fogarty free.

danganabu

wingbacknr5 wrote: »

I think Tannion will drop back in front of the full back whoever that is, in a bid to afford them some support in marshalling TJ.

One of the midfielders (probably Burke) will then drop back on Hogan leaving Conor Fogarty free. Fogarty is a scavenger and a very good one, but he is not the sort of player that will destroy you if left free. He will forage plenty of ball whether he has a direct opponent or not, but his striking can be poor and so Galway may decide that leaving him loose is the least worst option.

Of course if Larkin is named at 15 but plays deep it will leave a Galway defender free to help double up on TJ. I would expect one of the Galway midfielders to track Larkin in this instance; again leaving Fogarty free.

It just amazes me they didnt do it last Sunday especially with Tipp's midfield all at sea, Cunningham is a very lucky man they won or he would have been hung out to dry. And it's not the first time he has got it horribly wrong mid-game.

I agree that what you describe is probably what will happen, but I wouldn't be as dismissive of Fogarty as that, every player on that KK team is capable of hurting you, he may not have the skill levels of say his midfield partner or Hogan and Reid, but not many do!

wingbacknr5

danganabu wrote: »

It just amazes me they didnt do it last Sunday especially with Tipp's midfield all at sea, Cunningham is a very lucky man they won or he would have been hung out to dry. And it's not the first time he has got it horribly wrong mid-game.

I agree that what you describe is probably what will happen, but I wouldn't be as dismissive of Fogarty as that, every player on that KK team is capable of hurting you, he may not have the skill levels of say his midfield partner or Hogan and Reid, but not many do!

Just to be clear I rate Fogarty very highly. But in a capacity of winning hard ball and laying it off to others, breaking up play, covering team mates who have been dragged out of position etc. He put in a huge performance in the replayed final last year that went largely un-remarked upon by the media but you can be sure his team mates and management appreciated it.

He is capable of hurting Galway if left free, but just not to the same extent as some of the others so they may decide that leaving him loose is the least worst option compared to Hogan, Reid et al.

Justice for the individual

babyjesus14 wrote: »

You seem to be such an expert on everything, you tell us what is allowed!

Can I help you there?

'The hand pass is used to pass the sliotar over shorter distances by STRIKING it with the palm and fingers of the hand'.

You cannot:

Throw it (sometimes done from a closed fist position) or open the fist to push with the palm of the hand)

The referee has then to decide (which is not easy, due to deception and being unsighted, to make an instant decision)

On the 'it's a man's game', this 'man's game' has still to be played by the rules, and you cannot deliberately go out to injure your opponent. Real men do not have to resort to cowardly, sly and sneaky methods to gain an advantage. A good shoulder at the right time will sort out the men from the boys.

I do understand that if a player is assaulted on the field of play and gets no protection from the officials, he has the right to defend himself, and this is where a problem will arise.

You will see off the ball incidents where a foul is committed, the fouled player retaliates, and when the referee's attention is called to the incident, he may consult the umpires or linesmen, but in most cases, a yellow card or, in rare cases, a red card is issued. Who is wronged here? And then they are both penalised.

cson

Justice for the individual wrote: »

On the 'it's a man's game', this 'man's game' has still to be played by the rules, and you cannot deliberately go out to injure your opponent. Real men do not have to resort to cowardly, sly and sneaky methods to gain an advantage. A good shoulder at the right time will sort out the men from the boys.

Does. Not. Compute.

You go in for a 'good' shoulder you're trying to hurt your opponent full stop.

Justice for the individual

cson wrote: »

Does. Not. Compute.

You go in for a 'good' shoulder you're trying to hurt your opponent full stop.

By a 'good shoulder' I mean one that is allowed when it is executed within the rules. How many times have you seen players shouldered out over the sideline when they have the ball, and this is within the rules.

Realt Dearg Sec

cson wrote: »

Does. Not. Compute.

You go in for a 'good' shoulder you're trying to hurt your opponent full stop.

That's ridiculous.

clashoftheash

Hey lads ... Just a heads up I think the team is heading on a training weekend today ...probably carton house...seen the bus outside new park hotel there
..heres hoping there is no injuries sustained.

babyjesus14

clashoftheash wrote: »

Hey lads ... Just a heads up I think the team is heading on a training weekend today ...probably carton house...seen the bus outside new park hotel there
..heres hoping there is no injuries sustained.

I hope TJ and Richie were bubble wrapped!:D

danganabu

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I hope TJ and Richie were bubble wrapped!:D

Nope Bubbles has a South Final this weekend couldn't make it!

brookville

Heard there of this weekend alright,I'd say them sessions are serious.hopefully no injuries I wonder how jackie is?coady will have a fair idea of his team after this weekend

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I hope TJ and Richie were bubble wrapped!:D

I'd be the opposite I hope they get it hard and physical which I'm sure they will. Obviously no will be trying to injure them but they have to prove that their ready for the physicality Galway will rightly bring. I can guarantee they don't want to be wrapped up and given special treatment and as we all know it's not Codys way. I know you were talking in jest but playing hard will help the lads a lot more.

brookville

The players know what's required and they've played galway enough over recent years and know what they'll bring to the table,I'd expect they'll be ready

babyjesus14

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I'd be the opposite I hope they get it hard and physical which I'm sure they will. Obviously no will be trying to injure them but they have to prove that their ready for the physicality Galway will rightly bring. I can guarantee they don't want to be wrapped up and given special treatment and as we all know it's not Codys way. I know you were talking in jest but playing hard will help the lads a lot more.

In fairness while it was in jest we really can't afford anymore injuries don't have the same strength in depth as previous years... especially to Richie or TJ.

galwaylad14

danganabu wrote: »

Haven't time to read through all that has been posted since Sunday but just my thoughts on the final.

I really can't see anything but a comfortable KK win, the platform for Galway was that Tipp's half forward line and midfield were completly anonymous, the two corner forwards were completely off thier game, especially Bubbles, when we know what he can do, Paraic Maher proved once and for all that he is not a centre back and could do with a good bollocking that its not all about him, the Galway keeper made two saves that were top top drawer and yet Galway won by a point with two points in injury time??

TJ Reid will have a field day and even if that doesn't work you have Walter Walsh to go in full, Hogan will think all his birthday's have come at once as Tannion wouldn't mark spce and turns about as quickly as an artic, and there is no way in hell that Fennelly and Fogarty will be beaten like our two were.

The only slight doubt you could have is the left corner back and full back positions, but I dont think Galway wil have enough clean possesion in the middle third to exploit that. KK's bench also isn't what we are accustomed to, but to be honest I don't think they will need it.

Dead right. I just hope we can keep it pucked out to ye

blackcard

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Dead right. I just hope we can keep it pucked out to ye

How original

galwaylad14

wingbacknr5 wrote: »

I think Tannion will drop back in front of the full back whoever that is, in a bid to afford them some support in marshalling TJ.

One of the midfielders (probably Burke) will then drop back on Hogan leaving Conor Fogarty free. Fogarty is a scavenger and a very good one, but he is not the sort of player that will destroy you if left free. He will forage plenty of ball whether he has a direct opponent or not, but his striking can be poor and so Galway may decide that leaving him loose is the least worst option.

Of course if Larkin is named at 15 but plays deep it will leave a Galway defender free to help double up on TJ. I would expect one of the Galway midfielders to track Larkin in this instance; again leaving Fogarty free.

I'd say that's not a bad guess at it alright. I think we will need to let Tan sit deep alright because a) He's far better in that role because his strengths are his reading of the play and his striking, not his mobility and b) if we let TJ get 3 goals then we'll be going home without Liam as no matter what happens the other 5 KK forwards wont be as bad as the other 5 Tipp forwards.

However in the Leinster final Daithi Burke did great on Hogan for the while he was on him until Hogan dropped really deep and Burke didn't follow him. So then they may decide to just swap him and Tan but I hate Tan at wing back. Too slow.

I think I'd like to see what you suggested to be honest. That'll give Mannian extra help with Reid too.

And while in that approach it would mean Fogarty is free around the middle I can guarantee he wouldn't hit much soft ball because the work rate of our half forward line is so good and they are well capable of working back the field.

I think it's going to be an absolutely cracking final. A lot will depend on Richie Power too, if he was back and at his best (which in fairness would be a huge ask) then it means ye can drop a bad forward (Walsh) for a top class one in Power which of course would make a massive difference.

babyjesus14

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I'd say that's not a bad guess at it alright. I think we will need to let Tan sit deep alright because a) He's far better in that role because his strengths are his reading of the play and his striking, not his mobility and b) if we let TJ get 3 goals then we'll be going home without Liam as no matter what happens the other 5 KK forwards wont be as bad as the other 5 Tipp forwards.

However in the Leinster final Daithi Burke did great on Hogan for the while he was on him until Hogan dropped really deep and Burke didn't follow him. So then they may decide to just swap him and Tan but I hate Tan at wing back. Too slow.

I think I'd like to see what you suggested to be honest. That'll give Mannian extra help with Reid too.

And while in that approach it would mean Fogarty is free around the middle I can guarantee he wouldn't hit much soft ball because the work rate of our half forward line is so good and they are well capable of working back the field.

I think it's going to be an absolutely cracking final. A lot will depend on Richie Power too, if he was back and at his best (which in fairness would be a huge ask) then it means ye can drop a bad forward (Walsh) for a top class one in Power which of course would make a massive difference.

Maybe our "bad" forward might come up with 1-3 again!:rolleyes:

Realt Dearg Sec

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Dead right. I just hope we can keep it pucked out to ye

He isn't from kk.

MfMan

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Maybe our "bad" forward might come up with 1-3 again!:rolleyes:

Has he scored 1-3 in total since?

babyjesus14

MfMan wrote: »

Has he scored 1-3 in total since?[/QUOT

I am sure he has... two all-ireland medals and counting. I'd imagine there are a lot of inter-county hurlers throughout the country who would love to be as "bad" as him!

citykat

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Dead right. I just hope we can keep it pucked out to ye

He's a Tipp man ffs.

citykat

MfMan wrote: »

Has he scored 1-3 in total since?

Hopefully Johnny has a good pair of underpants for the big day. He might need em when he sees Wally running his way.

MfMan

citykat wrote: »

Hopefully Johnny has a good pair of underpants for the big day. He might need em when he sees Wally running his way.

Wally can run? Will he have the ball with him?

dastardly00

MfMan wrote: »

Wally can run? Will he have the ball with him?

Oh he can run

He will have the ball

But he'll probably hit it wide

MfMan

dastardly00 wrote: »

Oh he can run

He will have the ball

But he'll probably hit it wide

Say, how come Lester Ryan is not getting game time? Very bittersweet year for him last year....

babyjesus14

MfMan wrote: »

Say, how come Lester Ryan is not getting game time? Very bittersweet year for him last year....

Never really did it in a Championship match, admittedly off limited game time.
Didn't look too bitter to me when i saw him out celebrating the night of the homecoming!;)

brookville

Lester probably struggling to make the next step,very committed and honest but his striking can be laboured and poor.he was injured during the year.nxt year will probably be his 5th year on the panel so probably sink or swim but the problem for his in the likes of joe lyng could pass him out in the pecking order

citykat

MfMan wrote: »

Wally can run? Will he have the ball with him?

He did when Fergal into him. How did that go again?

danganabu

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Dead right. I just hope we can keep it pucked out to ye

I think its safe to say that ye did You clearly didn't read my post properly, just seen negativity about Galway and got your knickers in a twist.

galwaylad14

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Maybe our "bad" forward might come up with 1-3 again!:rolleyes:

Haha I knew that was coming alright but as another poster said, has he scored 1-3 in total since?

Everything went right for him that day, even the goal just fell into his path (though he still had to be there to finish it which he did) but the main thing that went for him was he was marked by our defender that was least suited to the job. Coen is our man for a lively corner forward not a big slow mullocker.

And maybe Wally will manage a couple of scores again but I'd still be much happier to see him waddling out on to the field on All Ireland day than Richie Power.

unrealtime

Lester is a winter hurler - for the soft ground. It's a pity he can't perform on fast summer ground.

Walter is not good enough for us but he would walk onto that Galway team.

babyjesus14

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Haha I knew that was coming alright but as another poster said, has he scored 1-3 in total since?

Everything went right for him that day, even the goal just fell into his path (though he still had to be there to finish it which he did) but the main thing that went for him was he was marked by our defender that was least suited to the job. Coen is our man for a lively corner forward not a big slow mullocker.

And maybe Wally will manage a couple of scores again but I'd still be much happier to see him waddling out on to the field on All Ireland day than Richie Power.

"Slow mullockers" don't play inter county hurling and certainly don't win All-Ireland medals!