Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

Fort Stranger

Throw the team up as soon as ye hear please, nerves getting the better of me over here!!!

brettmirl

Kil. v Gal.
E Murphy
P Murphy
J Holden
S Prendergast
P Walsh
K Joyce
C Buckley
M Fennelly
C Fogarty
W Walsh
R Hogan
TJ Reid
G Aylward
C Fennelly
E Larkin

Subs R Reid J Tyrrell R Lennon M Walsh D Cody L Ryan J Lyng J Power R Power JJ Farrell M Ruth

Team supplied by Kilkenny GAA Supporters Club

derealbadger

Was down getting a ticket so decided I would pop over for a look one thing I noticed is that an awful lot of the kk players seem to be in sponsored or courtesy cars

blackcard

brettmirl wrote: »

Kil. v Gal.E Murphy P Murphy J Holden S Prendergast P Walsh K Joyce C Buckley M Fennelly C Fogarty W Walsh R Hogan TJ Reid G Aylward C Fennelly E Larkin Subs R Reid J Tyrrell R Lennon M Walsh D Cody L Ryan J Lyng J Power R Power JJ Farrell M Ruth Team supplied by Kilkenny GAA Supporters Club

No Kevin Kelly or Mark Kelly on the bench otherwise no surprises

Very Bored

I think Jackie Tyrrell not getting back in time is a big blow. Shane Prendergast would be a weak link in that defence I would think.

Charlie69

Very Bored wrote: »

I think Jackie Tyrrell not getting back in time is a big blow. Shane Prendergast would be a weak link in that defence I would think.

Agreed, our full back line was arguably our strongest line on the pitch for last years final. Jackie and JJ missing from it makes it our most vulnerable this time around. This is going to be a tough one, very nervous.

Very Bored

Charlie69 wrote: »

Agreed, our full back line was arguably our strongest line on the pitch for last years final. Jackie and JJ missing from it makes it our most vulnerable this time around. This is going to be a tough one, very nervous.

I think Joey Holden is better than a lot give him credit for though. OK, he's not up to JJ's level but he's a far better player than most counties have in that role. I just think Prendergast could get skinned by the Galway forward line.

citykat

So much for the conspiracy theorists and talk of selectors picking their club men. Or else, Lyng was absent for the selection meeting.

Realt Dearg Sec

Very Bored wrote: »

I think Joey Holden is better than a lot give him credit for though. OK, he's not up to JJ's level but he's a far better player than most counties have in that role. I just think Prendergast could get skinned by the Galway forward line.

Probably more of a question for when the season is over than two days before the big one, but what's happened to the full back position? There's so few natural full backs anymore, most of the big teams have someone kind of pressed into that position these days rather than someone who specialises there. It's strange especially because it's such a specialist position, totally different to other backs. KK haven't had a natural full back since Noel Hickey, and even then he was one of a dying breed. When JJ first went in there two things worried people, one was that we had moved the best wing back of his generation out of position, and the second was that he would struggle to fill the role. Now he did it, but there were some serious teething problems. So yeah, anyone any theories why full back seems to be a bit of a dying art?

Fireball07

Rasputin11 wrote: »

No actual rule for a red card there as far as I know but it certainly needs looking at. Duignan said in the paper on Sunday it should be a red card offence. Liam Sheedy came to the conclusion there was no cynicism in hurling, that came back to him a few weeks ago.

Hurling is a hugely cynical sport, black card is needed imo.


We could bring in reds for it and it probably would cut it out completely, but I can't see that coming in.

citykat

Rasputin11 wrote: »

No actual rule for a red card there as far as I know but it certainly needs looking at. Duignan said in the paper on Sunday it should be a red card offence. Liam Sheedy came to the conclusion there was no cynicism in hurling, that came back to him a few weeks ago.

Holding a lads arms while driving him into the ground is dangerous and should have been so deemed by the ref.

Charlie69

Very Bored wrote: »

I think Joey Holden is better than a lot give him credit for though. OK, he's not up to JJ's level but he's a far better player than most counties have in that role. I just think Prendergast could get skinned by the Galway forward line.

I suppose you could argue that this full back line hasn't really been tested yet which is a strange thing to say considering we're in the all Ireland final.

I know Cody and the team would always want to get there via the shortest route but I just have a feeling we are going into this one a bit undercooked having played only three championship matches, and Galway having played six games has them battle hardened and going into the final better prepared and with greater momentum.

citykat

Fireball07 wrote: »

Hurling is a hugely cynical sport, black card is needed imo.


We could bring in reds for it and it probably would cut it out completely, but I can't see that coming in.

I can't think of any other instance of this type of tackle this year so I dont know what you're on about.

citykat

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

, anyone any theories why full back seems to be a bit of a dying art?

Two men full forward lines?

Charlie69

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Probably more of a question for when the season is over than two days before the big one, but what's happened to the full back position? There's so few natural full backs anymore, most of the big teams have someone kind of pressed into that position these days rather than someone who specialises there. It's strange especially because it's such a specialist position, totally different to other backs. KK haven't had a natural full back since Noel Hickey, and even then he was one of a dying breed. When JJ first went in there two things worried people, one was that we had moved the best wing back of his generation out of position, and the second was that he would struggle to fill the role. Now he did it, but there were some serious teething problems. So yeah, anyone any theories why full back seems to be a bit of a dying art?

Agreed, and both Paul Murphy and Mannion (both excellent corner backs) have shown this year that not everyone can play there and that it is very much a specialist position.

Very Bored

Charlie69 wrote: »

I suppose you could argue that this full back line hasn't really been tested yet which is a strange thing to say considering we're in the all Ireland final.

I know Cody and the team would always want to get there via the shortest route but I just have a feeling we are going into this one a bit undercooked having played only three championship matches, and Galway having played six games has them battle hardened and going into the final better prepared and with greater momentum.

Cody's used to that though. He'll have his ways of getting the lads prepared. I wouldn't worry too much about what's gone before. To be honest, I would say we haven't really played all that well this season. However, that could go one of two ways, it could be a sign we haven't it in us this year or it could be that we will, as we have in the past, arrive in September with a bang.

Charlie69

citykat wrote: »

So much for the conspiracy theorists and talk of selectors picking their club men. Or else, Lyng was absent for the selection meeting.

I think everyone would have expected Richie Power to come in for Conor Martin to be fair.

savannahkat

Joey Holden has been the best full back in the country over the past six months. Shane Pendergast is no Jackie but he is not going to be roasted either. All in all a very good Kilkenny team that will take some beating and with both Jackie & Ritchie Power on the side line the bench is much stronger. Cody does not do nice so any one on the team or on the panel is well capable of doing the job entrusted to them.

Very Bored

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Probably more of a question for when the season is over than two days before the big one, but what's happened to the full back position? There's so few natural full backs anymore, most of the big teams have someone kind of pressed into that position these days rather than someone who specialises there. It's strange especially because it's such a specialist position, totally different to other backs. KK haven't had a natural full back since Noel Hickey, and even then he was one of a dying breed. When JJ first went in there two things worried people, one was that we had moved the best wing back of his generation out of position, and the second was that he would struggle to fill the role. Now he did it, but there were some serious teething problems. So yeah, anyone any theories why full back seems to be a bit of a dying art?

I think its a position which needs time and working on. As you said, its so specialist. And most managers need results yesterday nevermind today. Cody, because his record is so good, can perhaps afford to take one or two risks that other managers don't have the luxury to do. That the risks he takes come off more often than not are tantamount to his nouse and savvy. But JJ wasn't a natural full back, Cody moulded him into that role. However, after time JJ became as solid a full back as Hickey was. That doesn't answer the question why there aren't natural full backs anymore, but it does perhaps offer an angle of insight as to why Kilkenny have done better than most in this position over the last number of years.

randd1

Fireball07 wrote: »

Hurling is a hugely cynical sport, black card is needed imo.


We could bring in reds for it and it probably would cut it out completely, but I can't see that coming in.

The black card doesn't even work in the sport it was designed for, a sport played at a far slower pace than hurling. No-one knows what a black card offence is, every ref has a different view and the whole thing is massively confusing, never mind frustrating.

A sin bin for a specific offence, like the face guard pull, dragging a man down when 1on 1 in the square, or two yellow cards would make more sense.

As it is though, the black card is a massive farce, and causes way too much confusion and controversy as it's not applied evenly in any possible way.

Fort Stranger

I was thinking there just now I wouldn't begrudge Galway an ould win at this stage, but then I remember standing on the canal in the middle of ten thousand of them in the pissing rain in 87 and the slagging they gave us at the end! And then I thought - feck them they can wait another 27 years ha ha

derealbadger

thinlizzy51

agree.any right minded hurling man or woman wouldn't want to see a black cardIin hurling. a total disaster in football.

blackcard

We have been privileged in Kilkenny to have had not only exceptional players over the last 15 years but exceptionally dedicated players and management. In 20 years time, we will look back at this era and think how lucky we were to experience something that no other county has ever done. Let us show our appreciation on Sunday

Very Bored

blackcard wrote: »

We have been privileged in Kilkenny to have had not only exceptional players over the last 15 years but exceptionally dedicated players and management. In 20 years time, we will look back at this era and think how lucky we were to experience something that no other county has ever done. Let us show our appreciation on Sunday

Too true, and it can all end all of a slap. I was thinking today, what happens when Cody goes. They are serious boots to fill. If the next guy wins, people will say he's won with Cody's team, if he loses they'll say Cody would have won. We should just enjoy this period, win, lose or draw, though I do also feel that Kilkenny will always do well as Kilkenny lives hurling like no other county.

blackcard

Very Bored wrote: »

Too true, and it can all end all of a slap. I was thinking today, what happens when Cody goes. They are serious boots to fill. If the next guy wins, people will say he's won with Cody's team, if he loses they'll say Cody would have won. We should just enjoy this period, win, lose or draw, though I do also feel that Kilkenny will always do well as Kilkenny lives hurling like no other county.

I am sure when Tipp won in 1971 after dominating the 60's that they never thought that they would have to wait another 18 years for another one. All Ireland's are hard won so even though I wouldn't begrudge Galway a win, I would be ecstatic if we won

Cornerback1

Does anybody think that there'll be any changes to the named teams?

Very Bored

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Does anybody think that there'll be any changes to the named teams?

From Kilkenny, barring injuries, no. With Galway possibly. However, with the proviso that if someone isn't going well for us in the initial stages of the match, Cody will pull them.

blackcard

Interesting statistics. Galway 18 yellow cards in 6 games. KK 1 in 3 games. Evidence of Galway's increased physicality

Cornerback1

Very Bored wrote: »

From Kilkenny, barring injuries, no. With Galway possibly. However, with the proviso that if someone isn't going well for us in the initial stages of the match, Cody will pull them.

True - BC doesn't name dummy teams. Must be the first time in a long time that he's kept faith with the same team. It doesn't happen too often.

citykat

blackcard wrote: »

Evidence of Galway's increased physicality

Hmmm. That's one interpretation...

blackcard

citykat wrote: »

Hmmm. That's one interpretation...

I take your point. Joe Canning should have been sent off the last day, Andy Smith on the other hand has taken an interest in hurling

Toblerone1978

Very Bored wrote: »

after time JJ became as solid a full back as Hickey was.

JJ was one of the best defenders, ever. After putting in an almost peerless career in wing back*, he showed his worth putting in some great years as full back.

But he never was as good as Noel Hickey as a full back. That's not a slight at JJ but it's unfair to compare him to the best full back of our generation.

* Tommy Walsh been the exception.

Fireball07

citykat wrote: »

I can't think of any other instance of this type of tackle this year so I dont know what you're on about.

randd1 wrote: »

The black card doesn't even work in the sport it was designed for, a sport played at a far slower pace than hurling. No-one knows what a black card offence is, every ref has a different view and the whole thing is massively confusing, never mind frustrating.

A sin bin for a specific offence, like the face guard pull, dragging a man down when 1on 1 in the square, or two yellow cards would make more sense.

As it is though, the black card is a massive farce, and causes way too much confusion and controversy as it's not applied evenly in any possible way.

I can't think of any as clear-cut off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure Limerick did one or two against Clare. Teams do it all the time. Player running through on goal, drag him down, conceded a free which will only result in a point. One of the worst things about the game currently tbh.


I think the black card rule isn't confusing at all tbh, it should be amended slightly. But in hurling, I'd bring it in for any cynical foul that prevent a goalscoring opportunity arising, even if 30 or so metres out.

orl

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I didn't say you said the were as good as TJ Reid and Richie Hogan, i said you bracketed them with them...." Cathal Mannion and Jason Flynn. they are the future TJ Reid and Richie Hogans of the next decade"!

Future is the operative word. TJ Reid won his first All-Ireland Senior at 22 (when he played). Richie Hogan was 21. So at the same age, TJ and Richie Hogan had the same amount of Senior Inter-county honours as Cathal Mannion and Jason Flynn. Therefore I think it Is fair to say that they could be the next TJ and Richie Hogan.

Very Bored

Anyone know when the All Ireland programme should be available via the Magzter app? The Dublin v Mayo one has been available since yesterday but still no sign of the Kilkenny v Galway one.

kk.man

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

JJ was one of the best defenders, ever. After putting in an almost peerless career in wing back*, he showed his worth putting in some great years as full back.

But he never was as good as Noel Hickey as a full back. That's not a slight at JJ but it's unfair to compare him to the best full back of our generation.

* Tommy Walsh been the exception.

Ha Hickey n JJ...no comparison. ..Massey Ferguson v Rolls Royce ...

Very Bored

So to bed on the eve of the final... hope the nerves let up to let me sleep as I think it'll be a great one tomorrow... up the Cats!

Realt Dearg Sec

kk.man wrote: »

Ha Hickey n JJ...no comparison. ..Massey Ferguson v Rolls Royce ...

The point isn't that Hickey is a better hurler, it's that he was a better full back. Full back is no place for a rolls, and JJ didn't play like one when he was there.

brookville

Oh the excitement.best of luck to the lads today

Very Bored

Where do ye think it will be won or lost?

Personally, I think TJ and Richie are simply too consistent and will get the scores on offer, including goals. I also think Joey Holden is better than many give him credit for, and that mistake in the Leinster final aside, he has had a solid season. I also think in midfield Kilkenny are much stronger. Whilst the Galway forwards are much improved on recent years, I get the feeling too much still rests on Canning, or that he, himself, feels that there is. He is a very good player, but I can't understand why he continues to get unerring praise with no criticism thrown in. He still doesn't have that metronomic nature of a great player and is still incredibly wasteful at times, often trying stupid things that simply aren't on. I acknowledge that he's a hugely skillful player but he often throws away opportunities by taking on too much himself, whereas a great player knows when its on and when he needs to release to another player. That said, Canning hasn't had the luxury that the likes of Shefflin had where Henry had absolutely safe knowledge that whoever he gave the ball to was equally capable of finishing the job. I also think goals will have a huge factor and Galway never looked like getting one against Tipp. Galway will raise their game from the Leinster final, from the semi final even, but so will Kilkenny. And arguably Kilkenny have the biggest margin for improvement because they weren't exactly scintillating against Waterford whereas Galway were at full pelt against Tipperary. I also think that too much is being made of Galway beating the worst Cork team certainly I've ever seen whilst Kilkenny have quietly gone about their business. Therefore, for me at least, the sensible money is on the Cats.

With all that in mind, there are certain years which just belong to a team and I think this one is Galway's. I had a strange feeling before the semi final that Galway would beat Tipp and I have a strange feeling about today too. If they do win it, although I'll be disappointed, we have to acknowledge that they'll have done it the hard way by beating the three kingpins of hurling.

unrealtime

Wish the lads all the best today. Had a bad night with the tum last night but expect us to be too good for Galway.

What a turnover of players - only 3 of the 2009 team start today. w are not going anywhere

Wx

Fireball07 wrote: »

I can't think of any as clear-cut off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure Limerick did one or two against Clare. Teams do it all the time. Player running through on goal, drag him down, conceded a free which will only result in a point. One of the worst things about the game currently tbh.


I think the black card rule isn't confusing at all tbh, it should be amended slightly. But in hurling, I'd bring it in for any cynical foul that prevent a goalscoring opportunity arising, even if 30 or so metres out.

Look at the ref's action in black carding the Mayo player yesterday for pulling down off the ball!

zetecescort

well done lads. how ye keep up the standards is both great and annoying to see

Bahanaman

I wonder would Galway take Wally now?!!

Bahanaman

Colin Fennelly choking up with emotion on TV and radio talking about Jackie Tyrrell's half time speech. And gob****es in other counties go on about a lack of passion in Kilkenny!

Brian017

Bahanaman wrote: »

Colin Fennelly choking up with emotion on TV and radio talking about Jackie Tyrrell's half time speech. And gob****es in other counties go on about a lack of passion in Kilkenny!

Any link?

dirtyden

Bahanaman wrote: »

Colin Fennelly choking up with emotion on TV and radio talking about Jackie Tyrrell's half time speech. And gob****es in other counties go on about a lack of passion in Kilkenny!

Who has ever said that?

Watching Kilkenny hurl no-one could doubt their passion. I have not heard anyone do so, so wondering where your comment comes from.

Bahanaman

dirtyden wrote: »

Who has ever said that?

Watching Kilkenny hurl no-one could doubt their passion. I have not heard anyone do so, so wondering where your comment comes from.

Kilkenny has borders with a lot of counties, my own being one of them. All you have to do is have a listen in any of them and you won't have long to wait before you hear it.

Bahanaman

Brian017 wrote: »

Any link?

Afraid not!