Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

danganabu

WallyGUFC wrote: »

I've seen more moaning about the ref from Kilkenny fans in fairness. It was blatantly obvious Coen should have gotten the line, everyone around me was relieved he didn't. We had the balance of decisions in the first half, KK had the balance in the second half but overall no decision was game changing - KK's second half power surge would have floored every team in the country.

Absolutely spot on assesment!

Justice for the individual

danganabu wrote: »

Absolutely spot on assesment!

I don't think the Kilkenny fans were moaning about the ref, only saying things as they saw it. I thought also that the decisions went Galway's way in the first half, and yes, Kilkenny got them in the second half - but obviously that was a reflection of who was on top at the time.

I for one, happy enough with the ref, I think he was trying to be fair to both sides, and he himself knows, on reflection, where he got things wrong, but Kilkenny supporters are accepting that he wasn't deliberately biased in any way, and in fairness, that is the way both teams would want it.

danganabu

Justice for the individual wrote: »

I don't think the Kilkenny fans were moaning about the ref, only saying things as they saw it. I thought also that the decisions went Galway's way in the first half, and yes, Kilkenny got them in the second half - but obviously that was a reflection of who was on top at the time.

I for one, happy enough with the ref, I think he was trying to be fair to both sides, and he himself knows, on reflection, where he got things wrong, but Kilkenny supporters are accepting that he wasn't deliberately biased in any way, and in fairness, that is the way both teams would want it.

I'm not disputing that in anyway to be honest, was only commenting on the bolded part re the Refs performance and considering the physical nature of the game and the amount of hard tacking he did a very good job IMO.

savannahkat

danganabu wrote: »

I'm not disputing that in anyway to be honest, was only commenting on the bolded part re the Refs performance and considering the physical nature of the game and the amount of hard tacking he did a very good job IMO.

Seriously ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

jkiamasnake

savannahkat wrote: »

Seriously ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

id agree. felt he was bad to both sides particularly about not sending off johnny coen. but you have to admit kk got a good few contentious calls in the 2nd half!! also ger alyward i felt was lucky to stay on...he was on a yellow and fouled consistenty. no more than andy smith, if there was a skuffle, alyward was always there close to the middle of it too!

but the umpires are useless!! im sick hearing about this joe canning shot before halftime..is it was that close to being a point/wide...then why the f**k not use hawk eye to confirm it for definite!! also on the umpires..wasnt sure about 1 or 2 calls for a 65! one particular one..it was very hard to judge whether or not the ball had fully crossed the line!

babyjesus14

danganabu wrote: »

I'm not disputing that in anyway to be honest, was only commenting on the bolded part re the Refs performance and considering the physical nature of the game and the amount of hard tacking he did a very good job IMO.

I would have to completely disagree with you i thought Owens performance was very poor. The decision not to send off Johnny Coen was shocking, that is where you need a strong referee, not someone who is afraid to make a big call because of the occasion.Whether it's a Junior B league match or an All-Ireland final that tackle was a red card.

He then proceeded to spend most of the 2nd half trying to make it up to Kilkenny, possibly after seeing a replay of the Coen tackle at half time, and failed to award frees against Padraig Walsh and Walter Walsh in incidents that both lead to Kilkenny points. I can't imagine his assessment report will make pretty reading and would be very surprised if he got another final.

savannahkat

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I would have to completely disagree with you i thought Owens performance was very poor. The decision not to send off Johnny Coen was shocking, that is where you need a strong referee, not someone who is afraid to make a big call because of the occasion.Whether it's a Junior B league match or an All-Ireland final that tackle was a red card.

He then proceeded to spend most of the 2nd half trying to make it up to Kilkenny, possibly after seeing a replay of the Coen tackle at half time, and failed to award frees against Padraig Walsh and Walter Walsh in incidents that both lead to Kilkenny points. I can't imagine his assessment report will make pretty reading and would be very surprised if he got another final.

I hope he does. Most times he is a very good referee. The experience will benefit him too just as it would any player playing there for the first time in an AI. He is still learning unlike some of his fellows who are brutal year after year.

citykat

I thought the ref did ok last Sunday. Having watched the game back multiple times, I can't see how he favoured either side in either half. I fail to see how we benefited in the second half.
On Coen, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Easy for someone to say what they would do but Owens was the man who had to make that call. Very few refs would have shown red.
It was high stakes but I think in a way Coen was reasonably sure he wouldn't get the line (else why make that tackle?).

brookville

Who would people like to see tried next year? Kevin kelly and chris bolger are two exciting forwards, joe lyng and rob lennon are two players he likes next year is a big year for brian kennedy and mark kelly both have slipped a long way down the pecking order hopefully john walsh and luke scanlon recover from injuries two good prospects

blackcard

brookville wrote: »

Who would people like to see tried next year? Kevin kelly and chris bolger are two exciting forwards, joe lyng and rob lennon are two players he likes next year is a big year for brian kennedy and mark kelly both have slipped a long way down the pecking order hopefully john walsh and luke scanlon recover from injuries two good prospects

All of the above though I think Scanlon is too light yet
Maybe Liam Blanchfield could be given a chance. Might be too soon for John Walsh although I would like to see him join the squad

northern lad

blackcard wrote: »

All of the above though I think Scanlon is too light yet
Maybe Liam Blanchfield could be given a chance. Might be too soon for John Walsh although I would like to see him join the squad

Interesting to see how these young players get on at U21 next year. I read today that Wexford have 10 of their team for Saturday's All Ireland U 21 final again in 2016.

brookville

Our u 21s should be better than the last two years which wouldn't be to hard anyone know if it's the same management?

blackcard

brookville wrote: »

Who would people like to see tried next year? Kevin kelly and chris bolger are two exciting forwards, joe lyng and rob lennon are two players he likes next year is a big year for brian kennedy and mark kelly both have slipped a long way down the pecking order hopefully john walsh and luke scanlon recover from injuries two good prospects

So the joy at winning the AI lasted 4 days until we start thinking about how we improve for next year. Cody would be proud of you.

Cornerback1

Is it just me or did anyone else think Colin Fennelly was wearing the wrong type of studs on Sunday? He was slipping and sliding all the time.

citykat

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Is it just me or did anyone else think Colin Fennelly was wearing the wrong type of studs on Sunday? He was slipping and sliding all the time.

In fairness to him, he lost one of his boots that time in the Davin end (Hogan stand side). Other than that he didn't lose his footing that much, not nearly as much as Cyril anyway.

dastardly00

citykat wrote: »

On Coen, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Easy for someone to say what they would do but Owens was the man who had to make that call. Very few refs would have shown red.

Dare I say that Barry Kelly would be the only ref that would have made the big call and given Coen a red card.

brookville

If it was a kk player he definitely would

unrealtime

x 2,000,000

babyjesus14

dastardly00 wrote: »

Dare I say that Barry Kelly would be the only ref that would have made the big call and given Coen a red card.

The scary part is you are probably right.:eek:

Justice for the individual

citykat wrote: »

I thought the ref did ok last Sunday. Having watched the game back multiple times, I can't see how he favoured either side in either half. I fail to see how we benefited in the second half.
On Coen, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Easy for someone to say what they would do but Owens was the man who had to make that call. Very few refs would have shown red.
It was high stakes but I think in a way Coen was reasonably sure he wouldn't get the line (else why make that tackle?).

Now guys, let's face up to this and call a spade a spade.
The tackle by Coen was the most clear red you could see, and to be honest, the ref chickened out when it mattered. I know I said previously I thought he did o.k. but on reflection and looking at the game again, he should have reached for the red card. Colin Fennelly had side-stepped and was through on goal with a two-to-one overlap, so it was a deliberate foul. I was directly across from it on Hill 16.

Taking action and being strong would have prevented some players taking advantage of this weakness and trying things later on, as stamping down on dangerous incidents like this would put down a marker and cut out the messing.

You would like to hear his explanation as to how he allowed it to happen. Again, a Kilkenny player was the recipient of a most dangerous foul and a referee failed to take action and as a Kilkenny supporter I offer no apologies for pointing this out.

Dan Chipowski

On to the more important stuff this weekend, namely the final round of club matches.

Sunday 13th Sep 2015

St. Canice's Credit Union [Kilkenny] Senior Hurling League Group A

Rd 5 2 00 PM Freshford - Erins Own --- --- Dicksboro
Rd 5 2 00 PM Thomastown - Clara --- --- Carrickshock
Rd 5 2 00 PM Nowlan Park - James Stephens --- --- O`Loughlin Gaels

St. Canice's Credit Union [Kilkenny] Senior Hurling League Group B


Rd 5 4 00 PM Gowran - Rower Inistioge --- --- St Martin's
Rd 5 4 00 PM Tom Ryall Park - Fenians --- --- Danesfort
Rd 5 4 00 PM Mullinavat - Mullinavat --- --- Ballyhale Shamrocks

fed up sick and tired

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Now guys, let's face up to this and call a spade a spade.
The tackle by Coen was the most clear red you could see, and to be honest, the ref chickened out when it mattered. I know I said previously I thought he did o.k. but on reflection and looking at the game again, he should have reached for the red card. Colin Fennelly had side-stepped and was through on goal with a two-to-one overlap, so it was a deliberate foul. I was directly across from it on Hill 16.

Taking action and being strong would have prevented some players taking advantage of this weakness and trying things later on, as stamping down on dangerous incidents like this would put down a marker and cut out the messing.

You would like to hear his explanation as to how he allowed it to happen. Again, a Kilkenny player was the recipient of a most dangerous foul and a referee failed to take action and as a Kilkenny supporter I offer no apologies for pointing this out.

Nor should you.

David Burke should have got the line in the first half as well, clearly seen here at 1:00:11 pulling off Colin Fennelly's helmet.

It's worth slowing it down to 25% to see it being done. But at any speed, the helmet didn't come off by itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwtgfwD2bNE

dastardly00

brookville wrote: »

If it was a kk player he definitely would

And a statement like that just deflects from the debate about Owen's performance and makes us (KK people) all sound bitter about Barry Kelly :rolleyes:

MfMan

Mick Fennelly, powerful though he is, really is a mean piece of work. Chopped down on Canning before HT, as was confirmed to me by a mentor.

Justice for the individual

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Nor should you.

David Burke should have got the line in the first half as well, clearly seen here at 1:00:11 pulling off Colin Fennelly's helmet.

It's worth slowing it down to 25% to see it being done. But at any speed, the helmet didn't come off by itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwtgfwD2bNE

It looks like things are let go in hurling, that would not be tolerated in the rugby code. The tackle on Fennelly would have immediately merited a red card, with no lame excuses.

Is it time to bring in the sin-bin (10 mins.) for misdemeanors as in rugby and this would do away with "ah it was early in the game and a man down destroys the contest" in the present situation, where a ref may be inclined to bottle making a decision.

In serious incidents, the incident should be looked at again via a video link, as is done for rugby.

We will get the "sure it will take out the 'manly' stuff", but I am not talking about that, only where a deliberate attempt is made to injure or maim a player, which could happen only a few times (if any) in a game, and the presence of a video replay would soon stamp out such cynical play or else make the transgressor pay dearly.

After all, they are all amateurs, and have to recover and turn up for work the next day, unlike professional rugby players, who can recover at their leisure.

fed up sick and tired

It's time to get rid of compulsory helmets.

fed up sick and tired

MfMan wrote: »

Mick Fennelly, powerful though he is, really is a mean piece of work. Chopped down on Canning before HT, as was confirmed to me by a mentor.

Is that supposed to be some kind of damning indictment of an inter-county hurler ?

Get real.

Justice for the individual

MfMan wrote: »

Mick Fennelly, powerful though he is, really is a mean piece of work. Chopped down on Canning before HT, as was confirmed to me by a mentor.

Some great pictures there and from a Kilkenny perspective we can see the trojan work Mick puts in - can you show us the Coen incident? - that would be interesting as you are well able to capture 'the moment'.

danganabu

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Is that supposed to be some kind of damning indictment of an inter-county hurler ?

Get real.

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Great video work there - can you show us the Coen incident? - that would be interesting as you are well able to capture 'the moment'.

Either of you actually going to comment on the pictures, the first one in particular, simple yes or no question - Should Mick Fennelly have been sent off for interfering with the helmet???

Justice for the individual

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Is that supposed to be some kind of damning indictment of an inter-county hurler ?

Get real.

He posts this nonsense over on the Galway forum too.

Justice for the individual

danganabu wrote: »

Either of you actually going to comment on the pictures, the first one in particular, simple yes or no question - Should Mick Fennelly have been sent off for interfering with the helmet???

As a Kilkenny supporter, on a Kilkenny forum, it is only I who decides whether I want to comment or not - but anyway, even though I know you will automatically have a different viewpoint by the tone of your question - here goes.

How do you know Fennelly was INTENTIONALLY interfering with the helmet? - a guy can be trying to balance himself (Fennelly is a big guy) and the hand can accidentally come in contact with the helmet. Can you see the helmet being pulled off the guys head? And no, I don't think he should have been sent off, not a clear-cut case, as you can see.

The second picture captured the essence of hurling, and nothing wrong there.

danganabu

Justice for the individual wrote: »

As a Kilkenny supporter, on a Kilkenny forum, it is only I who decides whether I want to comment or not - but anyway, even though I know you will automatically have a different viewpoint by the tone of your question - here goes.

How do you know Fennelly was INTENTIONALLY interfering with the helmet? - a guy can be trying to balance himself and the hand can accidentally come in contact with the helmet. Can you see the helmet being pulled off the guys head? And no, I don't think he should have been sent off, not a clear-cut case, as you can see.

The second picture captured the essence of hurling, and nothing wrong there.

I agree with you on the second photo its a nothing incident, but on the first one your answer is hilarious considering the assertions made here that David Burke should have been sent off.

I think I understand though, KK player commits ioffence its just being manly, or heaven forbid he lost his balance, anyone in a non stripey shirt commits same oiffence its filth, dangerous and he should be sent off :D

Justice for the individual

danganabu wrote: »

I agree with you on the second photo its a nothing incident, but on the first one your answer is hilarious considering the assertions made here that David Burke should have been sent off.

I think I understand though, KK player commits ioffence its just being manly, or heaven forbid he lost his balance, anyone in a non stripey shirt commits same oiffence its filth, dangerous and he should be sent off :D

Only when it is filthy and dangerous, and you know that!

A little bit of green envy there too I see.......

WallyGUFC

Sure David Burke clearly intentionally interfered with the helmet but MOM Mick Fennelly wouldn't do such a thing!

Seriously, the whinging from some KK Fans is embarrassing. There was one serious offence in the game that probably warranted red and the ref produced yellow - Johnny Coen. Apart from that it was a seriously tough, physical encounter, the kind of stuff most of us like to see. The ref has absolutely no baring on the result.

adrian522

MfMan wrote: »

Mick Fennelly, powerful though he is, really is a mean piece of work. Chopped down on Canning before HT, as was confirmed to me by a mentor.

All I see here is a Galway player attempting to dive and Mick helpfully attempting to keep him on his feet.

I'm sure he was thanked for this afterwards. This was confirmed by a mentor.

Toblerone1978

I wonder if any of the county lads with a niggle not playing this wkd. They might decide to take a rest if the league match has little relevant to their club's position. Anyone know?

Any linky to the league table? I tried looking on Kilkenny GAA website but I couldn't see anything.

unrealtime

As I wrote before, the ref had a good game but the whinging from the Galway team in the immediate aftermath - and repeated by trolls on this site - was really bad and was just the sourest of grapes.

They were bet out the gate and can have no arguments about the KK victory. Isn't it wonderful - a source of massive pride for KK and its people. Long may it continue and fook the begrudgers.

Justice for the individual

adrian522 wrote: »

All I see here is a Galway player attempting to dive and Mick helpfully attempting to keep him on his feet.

I'm sure he was thanked for this afterwards. This was confirmed by a mentor.

Jackie tried to help Glennon to stay on his feet a few years ago, but failed dismally. There is a lesson here somewhere - Jackie (and all mentors), please note.

danganabu

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Only when it is filthy and dangerous, and you know that!

A little bit of green envy there too I see.......

Absolutely not, as I have said here and on the match thread KK were by far the best team and fully deserved their win, it has and is a pleasure to see this incredible team in action, the greatest manager ever produce in this country in any sport and definitly the greatest team I have ever seen, its the blatant double standards that I take issue with.

danganabu

unrealtime wrote: »

As I wrote before, the ref had a good game but the whinging from the Galway team in the immediate aftermath - and repeated by trolls on this site - was really bad and was just the sourest of grapes.

They were bet out the gate and can have no arguments about the KK victory. Isn't it wonderful - a source of massive pride for KK and its people. Long may it continue and fook the begrudgers.

The vast majority of complaining re the ref has come from KK fans, so no idea what you are talking about.

As for you labeling others as trolls, that has to be a serious contender for ''Ironic post of the year'' - ''Hello kettle, unrealtime here, you're balck''

savannahkat

danganabu wrote: »

The vast majority of complaining re the ref has come from KK fans, so no idea what you are talking about.

As for you labeling others as trolls, that has to be a serious contender for ''Ironic post of the year'' - ''Hello kettle, unrealtime here, you're balck''

From todays Examiner, "Tipperary star Seamus Callanan is still suffering aches and pains following John Hanbury’s controversial foul on him in last month’s All-Ireland semi-final."
Even with all our success I cannot recall any Kilkenny player ever doing anything similar or causing such a long term injury. That it is the same player who tried to do Colin Fennelly is not coincidence. He was allowed in two successive games to get away with seriously dangerous play. What if Seamus Callinan never recovers
It is no coincidence that both Tipp and Kilkenny were hot favorites which appears to be a license for some refs not to apply the rules equally or in there entirety. We have every right and in fact a duty to highlight such dirty pla,y win lose or draw for. In the longer term we are doing a service to the game unlike your attitude which I must say is of the ABK variety trying to be disguised as something else.

danganabu

savannahkat wrote: »

From todays Indo, "Tipperary star Seamus Callanan is still suffering aches and pains following John Hanbury’s controversial foul on him in last month’s All-Ireland semi-final."
Even with all our success I cannot recall any Kilkenny player ever doing anything similar or causing such a long term injury. That it is the same player who tried to do Colin Fennelly is not coincidence. He was allowed in two successive games to get away with seriously dangerous play. What if Seamus Callinan never recovers
It is no coincidence that both Tipp and Kilkenny were hot favorites which appears to be a license for some refs not to apply the rules equally or in there entirety. We have every right and in fact a duty to highlight such dirty pla,y win lose or draw for. In the longer term we are doing a service to the game unlike your attitude which I must say is of the ABK variety trying to be disguised as something else.

Seriously lad you're wasted on these boards, get on a stage, you're fcukin hilarious*


*The above post may contain traces of sarcasm!

donnem33

savannahkat wrote: »

From todays Examiner, "Tipperary star Seamus Callanan is still suffering aches and pains following John Hanbury’s controversial foul on him in last month’s All-Ireland semi-final."
Even with all our success I cannot recall any Kilkenny player ever doing anything similar or causing such a long term injury. That it is the same player who tried to do Colin Fennelly is not coincidence. He was allowed in two successive games to get away with seriously dangerous play. What if Seamus Callinan never recovers
It is no coincidence that both Tipp and Kilkenny were hot favorites which appears to be a license for some refs not to apply the rules equally or in there entirety. We have every right and in fact a duty to highlight such dirty pla,y win lose or draw for. In the longer term we are doing a service to the game unlike your attitude which I must say is of the ABK variety trying to be disguised as something else.

John Hanbury did nothing to Colin Fennelly!! It was johnny coen who dragged him down

danganabu

savannahkat wrote: »

From todays Examiner, "Tipperary star Seamus Callanan is still suffering aches and pains following John Hanbury’s controversial foul on him in last month’s All-Ireland semi-final."
Even with all our success I cannot recall any Kilkenny player ever doing anything similar or causing such a long term injury. That it is the same player who tried to do Colin Fennelly is not coincidence. He was allowed in two successive games to get away with seriously dangerous play. What if Seamus Callinan never recovers.

Callinan is fully recovered, it is a sensationalist headline that actually bears no resemblence to what Seamie actually said, Seamie played 90 mins in a Mid Final on Wednesday night at centre back and was outstanding, your concern is touching but don't fret he is fully recovered.

Your memory might be playing tricks on you re. KK players inflicting injuries by the way, although I imagine it can be difficult with the blinkeers and all.

savannahkat

donnem33 wrote: »

John Hanbury did nothing to Colin Fennelly!! It was johnny coen who dragged him down

My apologies you are right about Hanbury/Coen but that does not take from the fact that in two successive games blatantly dangerous fouls by Galway were allowed to go unpunished.

Also from todays Examiner
This refreshed spirit propelled a rejigged panel to splendour on Croke Park grass sooner than most observers thought possible. Sure enough, there is plenty disquiet about the champions’ campaign. Online GAA discussion roiled, during the week, with a cocktail of begrudgery, disgust, envy, fear, resentment and unease. That whole cráic is brewing again.

You are leader in chief of the begrudgery brigade. You choose to completely ignore the seriousness of Callinan's injury simply to try and ridicule.

donnem33

savannahkat wrote: »

My apologies you are right about Hanbury/Coen but that does not take from the fact that in two successive games blatantly dangerous fouls by Galway were allowed to go unpunished.

Also from todays Examiner
This refreshed spirit propelled a rejigged panel to splendour on Croke Park grass sooner than most observers thought possible. Sure enough, there is plenty disquiet about the champions’ campaign. Online GAA discussion roiled, during the week, with a cocktail of begrudgery, disgust, envy, fear, resentment and unease. That whole cráic is brewing again.

You are leader in chief of the begrudgery brigade. You choose to completely ignore the seriousness of Callinan's injury simply to try and ridicule.

I am the leader in chief of the begrudgery bridage? How?! I have said kk were the better team and deserving champions!! I also said Johnny should have been sent off! Not sure if I posted cos was studying for exams but Hanbury should have been sent off in the semi final

I take offense to being called a begrudger!!

Realt Dearg Sec

danganabu wrote: »

KK players inflicting injuries by the way.

I really, really don't want to get involved in this discussion, but I think my memory is gone blank on this as well. What player has been caused serious harm through a deliberate or dirty tackle by a KK player in recent memory? You sound like you're thinking of something in particular.

Pudders

This thread has got out of hand.

Kilkenny are champions.

The ref wasn't great for either team, missed the red but did not impact on the overall result.

It was a tough fair match otherwise.

Galway are a class tough team. A lot of the attributes of Kilkenny. They will be there or thereabouts. Wouldn't begrudge them an all Ireland and alongside all the other leinster teams would always cheer them on.

We are a small county, love our hurling and do respect and love them despite all the nonsense about the crowd for the lap of honour.

We are blessed with the players and more blessed with Cody (Up the Village).

Lets just enjoy the win, I know I am.

fed up sick and tired

danganabu wrote: »

Either of you actually going to comment on the pictures, the first one in particular, simple yes or no question - Should Mick Fennelly have been sent off for interfering with the helmet???

Yes, he should. By the rules.

The big difference is this - I doubt if the ref saw that incident in real time, and so no blame apportions to him on that score.

But the ref in real time saw that Colin Fennelly's helmet was completely pulled off his head.

Not doing something about that, is an abdication of responsibility.

danganabu

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I really, really don't want to get involved in this discussion, but I think my memory is gone blank on this as well. What player has been caused serious harm through a deliberate or dirty tackle by a KK player in recent memory? You sound like you're thinking of something in particular.

John Dalton, Eoin Larkin and JJ Delaney all left opponents in hospital in recent years, and thats only off the top of my head.

I'm not for one minute saying that KK are dirty or anymore guilty than any other county but this charade that KK are whiter that white and always the victim is both silly and tiresome.

Pudders post pretty much sums it up perfectly and everything he says is spot on, so lets just leave it there, enjoy the win and I'm sure ye will be just as hard to beat next year.