Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

KevIRL

Hats off on the win yesterday lads. Thought we might have a glimmer of a chance when the free taking was off radar early on but that was quickly extinguished. Was so impressed with Padraig Walsh yesterday, first time seeing him play and he looks the part in a big way. Cillian Buckley the best I've seen him and as for Colin Fennelly's turn of pace.... KK's pace all over the pitch was outstanding actually, leaving our backs for dead and easily able to catch any half breaks at the other end.

Have to say as well Nowlan Park pitch was in superb condition, always an excellent surface but the groundstaff deserve a particular amount of praise considering the winter we've had, puts our own Walsh Park pitch to shame.

Had some good chats with KK fans sat around me, they were all hoping that Clare and Dublin would win so we'd get into a QF, more of pity I guess! Hopefully we will get to play ye in 1A again next year and after a couple of years on the bounce in Nowlan Park get a chance to return the hospitality received back down the motorway in Waterford.

Best of luck in the rest of the league and championship. Hard to see past yourselves and Clare at this early stage

IanVW

KevIRL wrote: »

Hats off on the win yesterday lads. Thought we might have a glimmer of a chance when the free taking was off radar early on but that was quickly extinguished. Was so impressed with Padraig Walsh yesterday, first time seeing him play and he looks the part in a big way. Cillian Buckley the best I've seen him and as for Colin Fennelly's turn of pace.... KK's pace all over the pitch was outstanding actually, leaving our backs for dead and easily able to catch any half breaks at the other end.

Have to say as well Nowlan Park pitch was in superb condition, always an excellent surface but the groundstaff deserve a particular amount of praise considering the winter we've had, puts our own Walsh Park pitch to shame.

Had some good chats with KK fans sat around me, they were all hoping that Clare and Dublin would win so we'd get into a QF, more of pity I guess! Hopefully we will get to play ye in 1A again next year and after a couple of years on the bounce in Nowlan Park get a chance to return the hospitality received back down the motorway in Waterford.

Best of luck in the rest of the league and championship. Hard to see past yourselves and Clare at this early stage

Have to agree with everything said there! Best of luck in the rest of the league and championship!:)
Pity our lads couldnt compete:)

pmy.murphy

KevIRL wrote: »

Hats off on the win yesterday lads. Thought we might have a glimmer of a chance when the free taking was off radar early on but that was quickly extinguished. Was so impressed with Padraig Walsh yesterday, first time seeing him play and he looks the part in a big way. Cillian Buckley the best I've seen him and as for Colin Fennelly's turn of pace.... KK's pace all over the pitch was outstanding actually, leaving our backs for dead and easily able to catch any half breaks at the other end.

Have to say as well Nowlan Park pitch was in superb condition, always an excellent surface but the groundstaff deserve a particular amount of praise considering the winter we've had, puts our own Walsh Park pitch to shame.

Had some good chats with KK fans sat around me, they were all hoping that Clare and Dublin would win so we'd get into a QF, more of pity I guess! Hopefully we will get to play ye in 1A again next year and after a couple of years on the bounce in Nowlan Park get a chance to return the hospitality received back down the motorway in Waterford.

Best of luck in the rest of the league and championship. Hard to see past yourselves and Clare at this early stage

Fair play to ya lad. Its not often someone from Waterford gives us a bit of praise or wishes us luck. Im sure yesterday was only a blip and wont be happening again, yee have some nice hurlers coming on there in fairness. Who knows? Cud be the making of yee. Nice touch

dastardly00

Rossie2014 wrote: »

Diarmuid Lyng just described Killkenny hurling style as agricultural on off the ball, serious chip on his shoulder

Roughly at what part of the show did he say that?
I listened to the GAA podcast from Monday's show but I didn't hear him say it (I could just have not heard it).

Rossie2014

dastardly00 wrote: »

Roughly at what part of the show did he say that?
I listened to the GAA podcast from Monday's show but I didn't hear him say it (I could just have not heard it)./quote]
Just after Jamsie O Connors's piece, about 1 hour into the show, presenter asked why Kilkenny and Tipp produce great matches, Diarmuid Lyng said that its beacause they have the same agricultural style

dastardly00

Rossie2014 wrote: »

Just after Jamsie O Connors's piece, about 1 hour into the show, presenter asked why Kilkenny and Tipp produce great matches, Diarmuid Lyng said that its beacause they have the same agricultural style

Thanks, I think I might just have not heard it.

savannahkat

I see the Hoganstand has included Jackie at center back, Ritchie Hogan at center field and Walter on the half forward line in their team of the week. I an surprised at Jackie's selection. I did not think he did too bad last Sunday but neither did i think he was outstanding.

Chico Flores

I honestly don't get all the hype about Clare at this stage. They snuck into the All Ireland last year, not exactly the toughest draw in the qualifers ever , and then had two massive performances, dont get me wrong. Great to see. But bar Tony Kelly, I don't think many of their team would make ours. Maybe McGrath and Bugler on bench/starting some games.

I just really like the way we are set up at the moment, with Kelly providing a more focal point up front too, its a nice change of tact. With Jackie and Tommy sitting so much out, the hunger for them to get their place will be massive.

Sort out the free taking and it will take an incredible team, getting lucky to stop us.

Charlie69

Chico Flores wrote: »

I honestly don't get all the hype about Clare at this stage. They snuck into the All Ireland last year, not exactly the toughest draw in the qualifers ever , and then had two massive performances, dont get me wrong. Great to see. But bar Tony Kelly, I don't think many of their team would make ours. Maybe McGrath and Bugler on bench/starting some games.

I just really like the way we are set up at the moment, with Kelly providing a more focal point up front too, its a nice change of tact. With Jackie and Tommy sitting so much out, the hunger for them to get their place will be massive.

Sort out the free taking and it will take an incredible team, getting lucky to stop us.

Don't agree at all, Clare are a very good team and will take some beating again this year, we're shaping up nicely but they have a far more settled side at the moment and loads of underage talent coming through.

Chico Flores

Charlie69 wrote: »

Don't agree at all, Clare are a very good team and will take some beating again this year, we're shaping up nicely but they have a far more settled side at the moment and loads of underage talent coming through.

I dont mean to come across as sort of dismissing them. I just think that the commentators proclaiming them the team to beat, is a bit much. As a unit Davy Fitz has them hurling perfectly, but break that down and individually I dont see them being tough enough to win it out.

Wide open pitch on a dry day, of course they will take some stopping but I dont see where their real tough ball winners are. Also if you take out young O'Donnell, I dont see where the goals are. Plus, he certainly is overhyped (much like Walter was)

They are without doubt here for the long haul with all the underage success, but think they would admit themselves that last year was prob 2/3 years ahead of their schedule.

dastardly00

I was extremely impressed by Clare when we played them in Cusack Park last month. Their skill level and touch was fantastic given the absolute mess that the pitch was in.

Chico Flores

dastardly00 wrote: »

I was extremely impressed by Clare when we played them in Cusack Park last month. Their skill level and touch was fantastic given the absolute mess that the pitch was in.

I suppose so, just don't think they are as good as us and the overhyping annoys me.

Maybe its the Davy Fitz factor too that I want to dislike them.

Just think they are too small, and teams like us and Dublin will go toe to toe with them, they wont stand up.

Grats

Clare won the AI ahead of schedule last year and were lucky to some extent that it was Cork that they met in the Final. I reckon Dublin would have been much tougher opposition for the young Clare team but of course Dublin were unlucky against Cork. That's not to take one bit from Clare's win.

We in KK appreciate what these young players showed at Minor and Under21. It's absolutely no coincidence that they are where they are now. Their under 21 management team had them playing a lovely brand of hurling. Davy was heavily criticised in the early summer last year for the style he had them playing. When he reverted to the under 21 style the year took off for them.

Winning last year will give them huge confidence, you can see that already in the league. Of course they will have to deal with every other manager plotting their downfall, the media hype and criticisms and how refs react to their game.

They will take beating but contrary to many experts I do believe their game plan is beatable.

adrian522

I don't know I think Clare are the team to beat at the moment, they are small but they build their game plan around that. They've got some of the best young players in the country on that team and they will be around for years to come.

Chico Flores

It is very admirable how much they have kicked on from the underage success, when compared to Limerick from early 2000s and Galway, well always, and I probably am being a little harsh. They play their game plan really well.

I just feel they are/were very lucky and we would physically give them so many problems in the championship. I did forget about young Collins too, who is also very skillful and to be fair their free taker is probably the best in the country currently.

Just have to wait and see.

adrian522

In fairness we were outplayed twice by Dublin, good against Tipp, very lucky against Waterford and outplayed again against cork. I wouldn't have been at all confident going in against Clare last season.

Of course this season will be different but I wouldn't get too carried away on the back of a few good league performances in February and March.

We are now part of the chasing pack and there are a few teams out there that can all beat each other on the day and I think Kilkenny is now in that group,

Rightwing

Rossie2014 wrote: »

Diarmuid Lyng just described Killkenny hurling style as agricultural on off the ball, serious chip on his shoulder

Dirty agricultural hurling.

savannahkat

Since Kilkenny & Tipp contested last years league final and neither managed to get to a provincial final there seems to be an attitude out there that league does not matter and that many teams are gearing up only for championship indeed Eamon O'Shea has been blunt in his statements about same re Tipp. Last year was an abberation in that regard as generally teams who do well in the league go on to do well in championship as proved by Kilkenny many times. The coming league games will tell a lot.
Kilkenny as usual do take it serious and have probably made best use of it so far.Clare according to Davy have a bit of training catch up to do yet, though I would not fall for that to quickly.They have been good to very good and will be there or there abouts Tipp well you never know, they have the hurlers but will they have the heart. Waterford we know are in trouble. Dublin out of Parnell Park are no great shakes. Cork struggled enough to get out of IB. Galway had a bad year last year meaning they will have a good year this year.It is the only way one can measure them, illogical and all as it is.
There are tougher tests ahead for Mark Kelly, Padraigh Walsh, Brian Kennedy and Joe Holden though if any three of that four make the starting fifteen against Galway (and yes I am writing off Offaly) it will be a huge bonus for Kilkenny.

Grats

Rightwing wrote: »

Dirty agricultural hurling.

You're a howl!

Grats

savannahkat wrote: »

Since Kilkenny & Tipp contested last years league final and neither managed to get to a provincial final there seems to be an attitude out there that league does not matter and that many teams are gearing up only for championship indeed Eamon O'Shea has been blunt in his statements about same re Tipp. Last year was an abberation in that regard as generally teams who do well in the league go on to do well in championship as proved by Kilkenny many times. The coming league games will tell a lot.
Kilkenny as usual do take it serious and have probably made best use of it so far.Clare according to Davy have a bit of training catch up to do yet, though I would not fall for that to quickly.They have been good to very good and will be there or there abouts Tipp well you never know, they have the hurlers but will they have the heart. Waterford we know are in trouble. Dublin out of Parnell Park are no great shakes. Cork struggled enough to get out of IB. Galway had a bad year last year meaning they will have a good year this year.It is the only way one can measure them, illogical and all as it is.
There are tougher tests ahead for Mark Kelly, Padraigh Walsh, Brian Kennedy and Joe Holden though if any three of that four make the starting fifteen against Galway (and yes I am writing off Offaly) it will be a huge bonus for Kilkenny.

For all the talk from some quarters about the league not been of consequence all teams fought hard in the end to avoid relegation. O'Shea seemed a very relieved man after Tipp beat Dublin and for the first time this league actually smiled!

Clare and Cork were in the relegation final last year and also ended up in the AI final. What's the betting on Dublin and Waterford repeating that this year?

Kilkenny played in an AI Final and replay in 2012. In that same year Michael Rice and TJ Reid were struck down with serious injury. Mentally and physically the KK players were always going to be below par in 2013. Through into that mix the aforementioned injuries, Henry's injury, Michael Frennelly's, etc and Kilkenny were never going to be serious contenders in 2013. In the event one would have expected Tipp, Galway and possibly Dublin to be next in line for honours. For various reasons each fell by the wayside. All three and Kilkenny will be back in contention this year. Clare are the front runners and deservedly so. They won't have it all their own way but will nonetheless be hard to beat.

Interesting summer ahead! Perhaps even more interesting than last year, the best hurling championship EVER!

jack o shea

kk need to find a free taker to win the all ireland, its a total joke at this stage that we have 4 or 5 free takers who cant hit a barn door between them.

dastardly00

jack o shea wrote: »

kk need to find a free taker to win the all ireland, its a total joke at this stage that we have 4 or 5 free takers who cant hit a barn door between them.

That's a bit of an exaggeration.

pmy.murphy

dastardly00 wrote: »

That's a bit of an exaggeration.

Remember the Cork game last year? At least 4 lads tried and failed to take the frees.

Grats

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Remember the Cork game last year? At least 4 lads tried and failed to take the frees.

So what do you suggest we do then?

pmy.murphy

Grats wrote: »

So what do you suggest we do then?

Practice makes perfect

Realt Dearg Sec

Bit much to suggest that probably the best free taker still in the game couldn't hit a barn door. He had a bad start Sunday, but everyone can have an off day. He was missing them during the warm up too though. Shefflin will be fine on the frees same as he'll be fine on everything else. The issue we have is simply that none of the free takers are guaranteed their place for seventy minutes, and if rather that than have some lad who's a passenger during play who stays on just cos he can score paved balls. Richie power can step up when Shefflin is off, then Hogan, then Larkin, and if we had another penalty i'd be looking for tj Reid to do the honours.

dastardly00

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Remember the Cork game last year? At least 4 lads tried and failed to take the frees.

**Warning: pedantic Pat alert**
I don't think you're completely correct. Based on this, Eoin Larkin converted 3 frees and 1 65', and missed 2 frees. Richie Power missed 2 65's, and converted 1 free. And Henry missed the single free that he attempted.

I'm not including the point that Richie scored from the re-taken penalty, nor the close-range free near the end of the game that Eoin Larkin didn't score from, because he went for goal.

Overall, I get your point (no pun intended :pac:) that KK were poor at shooting from placed-balls that day. I remember the two frees that Larkin missed, and they are ones he should have scored. Switching to Richie Power was a bit strange imo, and these days it seems to take Henry a little time to settle into free-taking mode.

In saying that though, KK had much bigger issues that day (and throughout the 2013 championship) than their placed-ball accuracy. We might not be as lethal as the likes of Colin Ryan, Tony Kelly, Pat Horgan, and Pauric Mahony, but I don't think it's going to prevent us from winning the All-Ireland.

Speak Now

dastardly00 wrote: »

**Warning: pedantic Pat alert**
I don't think you're completely correct. Based on this, Eoin Larkin converted 3 frees and 1 65', and missed 2 frees. Richie Power missed 2 65's, and converted 1 free. And Henry missed the single free that he attempted.

I'm not including the point that Richie scored from the re-taken penalty, nor the close-range free near the end of the game that Eoin Larkin didn't score from, because he went for goal.

Overall, I get your point (no pun intended :pac:) that KK were poor at shooting from placed-balls that day. I remember the two frees that Larkin missed, and they are ones he should have scored. Switching to Richie Power was a bit strange imo, and these days it seems to take Henry a little time to settle into free-taking mode.

In saying that though, KK had much bigger issues that day (and throughout the 2013 championship) than their placed-ball accuracy. We might not be as lethal as the likes of Colin Ryan, Tony Kelly, Pat Horgan, and Pauric Mahony, but I don't think it's going to prevent us from winning the All-Ireland.

Yeah the miss that went over the bar

jack o shea

every other county has a free taker that will score 8 or 9 out of 10 frees we are lucky to get 5 or 6 out of 10. henry,larkin,power,hogan and tj are all to hit and miss, its the same with penos,brutal as well. henrys against tipp in 09 final last big one we scored.then again we wont be getting any if that prick barry kelly has any of our games this summer.

savannahkat

We had better practice playing 14 against 15 if the said Mr Kelly is indeed in charge of the whistle and free taking will the least of our problems.

adrian522

Sorry, but Shefflin is not "hit and miss" as a free taker.

To my mind, Hogan, Power, Shefflin and Larkin are all fine as free takers and even TJ Reid would be ok in an emergency.

Grats

savannahkat wrote: »

We had better practice playing 14 against 15 if the said Mr Kelly is indeed in charge of the whistle and free taking will the least of our problems.

Absolutely. His performance in the club final would suggest he is still in bother. The GAA are being irresponsible imo allowing him back to ref at the top level. I see he's doing the Cork v Tipp game on Sun.

Hitchens

The thing about Henry is that missing a scorable free never affects him when the next one comes up..........and he's proven that over his career.

savannahkat

Kilkenny V Clare 2014
D Herity; C Fogarty, M Walsh, B Kennedy; J Holden, L Ryan, Paul Murphy; C Buckley, P Walsh H Shefflin C Fennelly, E Larkin; JJ Farrell, M Kelly, W Walsh

Kilkenny V Waterford 2014
E Murphy; P Murphy, JJ Delaney, J Holden; B Kennedy J Tyrrell, C Buckley; P Walsh, R Hogan W Walsh C Fennelly, H Shefflin J Farrell , M Kelly E Larkin

Out: Herity Fogarty M Walsh L Ryan,
In: E Murphy JJ, Jackie R Hogan

BY no means a radical change from the day one team and with Michael Fennelly and Michael Rice being the only two still left to come back from the old guard it is easy to see where Cody is seeing the future.

dastardly00

Interestingly, Barry Kelly hasn't refereed any Division 1A games this year.

He has been in charge of a couple of Division 1B games and he will be reffing the Tipp-Cork match this weekend.

IrishAlice

dastardly00 wrote: »

Interestingly, Barry Kelly hasn't refereed any Division 1A games this year.

He has been in charge of a couple of Division 1B games and he will be reffing the Tipp-Cork match this weekend.

People from Cork laugh at me when I go off on one about Barry Kelly (as I'm known to do from time to time :rolleyes:)

Wonder how they'll feel if they end up on the receiving end Sunday.

James Owens was no great shakes last Sunday either, the GAA should really be addressing these things.

Has anyone else noticed that they seem to be going a lot easier on steps this year in general?

Grats

Hitchens wrote: »

The thing about Henry is that missing a scorable free never affects him when the next one comes up..........and he's proven that over his career.

You're dead right. There is no argument to be had. Just somebody having a dream!

jack o shea

its a big worry for the year ahead, henry can be questioned as well sometimes you know?i dont know if they just dont bother practising frees or what, but the clare free taker of horgan from cork and the likes never miss any.

adrian522

If you think they don't practice frees, take yourself down to training some night and take a look. Or even look at the pre match warmup, of course they practice frees.

Charlie69

jack o shea wrote: »

its a big worry for the year ahead, henry can be questioned as well sometimes you know?i dont know if they just dont bother practising frees or what, but the clare free taker of horgan from cork and the likes never miss any.

everyone misses frees, Henry has an excellent strike rate

Grats

IrishAlice wrote: »

People from Cork laugh at me when I go off on one about Barry Kelly (as I'm known to do from time to time :rolleyes:)

Wonder how they'll feel if they end up on the receiving end Sunday.

James Owens was no great shakes last Sunday either, the GAA should really be addressing these things.

Has anyone else noticed that they seem to be going a lot easier on steps this year in general?

He was a shambles in the club final on St Patricks Day. The GAA would be well advised to handle this particular ref with care. Regarding steps, I remarked about that last year in fact. The Clare players in particular persistently take more than the allowed steps. I wonder if it is the speed at which they do it that refs are slow to cop it. They will no longer be under the radar so may have difficulty with it this year.

Regarding Henry and free taking - I'm sure he'll start practising soon!

Realt Dearg Sec

jack o shea wrote: »

its a big worry for the year ahead, henry can be questioned as well sometimes you know?i dont know if they just dont bother practising frees or what, but the clare free taker of horgan from cork and the likes never miss any.

For the love of Jesus, are you just trolling or what? There's nothing in that post worth taking seriously (except that Henry can be questioned, but I didn't think that needed to be pointed out.)

savannahkat

From today's Irish Times

What surely won’t come as any relief to Wexford is the fact that Michael Rice and Michael Fennelly are among the few players that Cody hasn’t yet used in 2014, and both are now in line to play some part in Sunday’s game. They are the last of the headline players who haven’t featured at some point during Kilkenny’s league campaign so far, and Cody is eager to give them a run.
“They’re pretty much ready to come back in now, have a nice bit of training behind them,” said Cody. “Especially Michael Rice, who does have a good bit done at this stage. It’s hard to say for sure . . . But there won’t be anyone in there on Sunday who isn’t ready.”

droppingball

I'd like to see the following team line out on Sunday:

Murphy
Murphy, JJ, Keogh
Kennedy, Jackie, Buckley
Fennelly, Walsh
Walter Fennelly Hogan
Power Kelly TJ

I'd give Henry and Larkin a rest and give TJ some more game time, I also don't think Joey Holden did anything wrong but I would like to get another look at Keogh, seems pacy and tight marking, got caught in possesion once or twice against dublin but seemed capable. Tight markers are what we need in the full back line against the likes of Clares inside line and Paul Murphy,JJ def have enough hurling there too.

Watched back the Waterford game and I actually didn't realise how well Colin Fennelly hurled at the game, he is really hurling up a storm and no centre back will want any breaking ball around that area with his pace. Top marks for management for telling him at the start of year that he was going to get a run of games there and he really is making the most of it.

tbiggertycome

Kil v Wex
E Murphy
P Murphy JJ Delaney J Holden
C Fogarty J Tyrrell K Joyce
P Walsh R Hogan
W Walsh C Fennelly TJ Reid
R Power M Kelly E Larkin

Subs
D Herity
M Walsh
T Walsh
B Hogan
B Kennedy
L Ryan
H Shefflin
M Fennelly
A Fogarty
JJ Farrell
S Prendergast
Team Supplied by Kilkenny GAA Supp. Club

ttowncat

When you put M Fennelly into that team where do Richie Hogan, Shefflin, Rice, Taggy go? It's still hard to know what our best attack will be as Waterford made our good performance look even better. Lots of the starting forwards are strong in the air so there's great rotational options for winning puck outs(assuming teams aren't batting and breaking/aka Galway OR swarming back like Dublin[i know we're slightly guilty of this one but I thought they took the biscuit last year in portlaoise])

I suppose we're only certain of 3 of the backs at this stage- Paul Murphy, JJ and Jackie- Did Jackie do enough at centre back?Hoganstand put him on team of the week? It would be great to see him laminating fellas trying to jink their way down through the middle!

It should all settle down in all parts of the field at some stage but it'll be very important and interesting to see what 'Settled, solid, match-dictating' half back line we have for the championship

dastardly00

Mick Fennelly named on the panel for the first time this year: woohoo!

Mackas_view

IrishAlice wrote: »

People from Cork laugh at me when I go off on one about Barry Kelly (as I'm known to do from time to time :rolleyes:)

Wonder how they'll feel if they end up on the receiving end Sunday.

James Owens was no great shakes last Sunday either, the GAA should really be addressing these things.

Has anyone else noticed that they seem to be going a lot easier on steps this year in general?

Over carrying is by far the worst enforced rule in Gaelic Games as a whole not just hurling. Last year alone I counted at least 4 players taking more than 5 steps in football and hurling more so football. It's something a referees has to start enforcing. It gets the ball moving faster and speeds up the game

amber69

Mackas_view wrote: »

Over carrying is by far the worst enforced rule in Gaelic Games as a whole not just hurling. Last year alone I counted at least 4 players taking more than 5 steps in football and hurling more so football. It's something a referees has to start enforcing. It gets the ball moving faster and speeds up the game

Referees tend to give the player on the ball a couple of extra steps if they are being fouled or impeded this keeps the game flowing.

Mackas_view

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Bit much to suggest that probably the best free taker still in the game couldn't hit a barn door. He had a bad start Sunday, but everyone can have an off day. He was missing them during the warm up too though. Shefflin will be fine on the frees same as he'll be fine on everything else. The issue we have is simply that none of the free takers are guaranteed their place for seventy minutes, and if rather that than have some lad who's a passenger during play who stays on just cos he can score paved balls. Richie power can step up when Shefflin is off, then Hogan, then Larkin, and if we had another penalty i'd be looking for tj Reid to do the honours.

100% right. not everyone on here is talkin tripe. No shortage of free takers in that team IF Henry can't take them.