Noise complaint about our children...

ad1234

Hi all

I live in a duplex apt, with a single seperate apt below in quite a built up area.

Thing is the people below us are constantly complaining about the noise our kids make in the morning, the two they complain about are 18mths and 3. They say there is constant banging in the morns and screaming. (the odd time my 3yr old will have a tantrum).

I just don't know what to do. We put down rugs and don't wear shoes in the house and I dont let my kids play in our outside area any more, yet still complaints.

The mgmt company said they are taking it to the prtb, our land lords are on our side on this though and can't see what else can be done. They (the mgmt comp) have also contacted out neighbours from either side to ask of they have complaints to ad.

What can be a result of this?? I'm so upset and stressed over it and can't afford to move, what are we facing anybody know? X

athtrasna

By any chance are there children in the neighbouring ground floor unit? I live in such a duplex and our ground floor neighbour say they've never heard noise from us or use from them but we can both hear next door to our units.

You said you put down rugs, are there wooden floors in the apartment?

loyatemu

seriously doubt the PRTB could do anything about it, even if they wanted to. They're only kids - your neighbours sound like intolerant jerks.

ad1234

loyatemu wrote: »

seriously doubt the PRTB could do anything about it, even if they wanted to. They're only kids - your neighbours sound like intolerant jerks.

Thanks, I hope so too. There really horrible people, best part is they just had a baby themselves, which is a new born, so all she does is sleep, there in for some shock.

It's just so worrying, I'm not one who's comfortable 'being in trouble'. And sick of bring afraid to move in my own house or have relatives over.

ad1234

athtrasna wrote: »

By any chance are there children in the neighbouring ground floor unit? I live in such a duplex and our ground floor neighbour say they've never heard noise from us or use from them but we can both hear next door to our units.

You said you put down rugs, are there wooden floors in the apartment?

Hi yes there's a boy next to them, 3 as well. All he does us cry too and from what I know the neighbours don't get along, yes there's wooden floors but only in one room and we put down rugs, we can't fully carpet as one of the kids has asthma. Do you think they might hear someone else too? We can hear very clearly either side to us.

Victor

People are most sensitive to changes in noise level, not the actual noise level.

Play the radio in the morning at a normal level. That should mask the worst of it.

jimmycrackcorm

ad1234 wrote: »

Thanks, I hope so too. There really horrible people, best part is they just had a baby themselves, which is a new born, so all she does is sleep, there in for some shock.

It's just so worrying, I'm not one who's comfortable 'being in trouble'. And sick of bring afraid to move in my own house or have relatives over.

Ignore them - they'll learn soon enough.

athtrasna

ad1234 wrote: »

Hi yes there's a boy next to them, 3 as well. All he does us cry too and from what I know the neighbours don't get along, yes there's wooden floors but only in one room and we put down rugs, we can't fully carpet as one of the kids has asthma. Do you think they might hear someone else too? We can hear very clearly either side to us.

Wooden floors are typically not allowed in apartments higher than ground level. They amplify noise and would act against you in a case. Did you put them down or your landlord?

Yawns

Tbh I wouldn't worry about it. What exactly will happen when someone in PRTB reviews the case. Noise complaint after 8am about a 3 year old and a 18 month old baby. Best of luck to him.

Solution: Maybe he should move to a detached house if he wants absolute peace. If he wants apartment living, then he has to accept the daily life of others around him.

For the people who think kids shouldn't be raised in apartments, of which there are many many people in Ireland who have this view, the early answer to that is to look to the many countries around the world where it is normal to raise families in apartment living.

Quick question re: the wooden flooring. Over the last few years I've lived in 2 different apartment complexes in 2 different counties. Both had wooden flooring put in as standard when built and are in the plans. The hotel and apartment complex where I worked, all the apartments had wooden floors in the hallways, kitchens & living rooms put in as per the plans. Where would one stand with the PRTB with that. The LL nor tenant put in the wooden flooring, but the council would have signed off on the plans so to speak.

ad1234

Hi there was wooden floors as standard then the landlord had some plumbing issues and put down carpet after work done and had more leaks so just put back down the wooden floors.

wexie

Yawns wrote: »

Quick question re: the wooden flooring. Over the last few years I've lived in 2 different apartment complexes in 2 different counties. Both had wooden flooring put in as standard when built and are in the plans. The hotel and apartment complex where I worked, all the apartments had wooden floors in the hallways, kitchens & living rooms put in as per the plans. Where would one stand with the PRTB with that. The LL nor tenant put in the wooden flooring, but the council would have signed off on the plans so to speak.

I've dealt with this extensively in the past (moany aul cow living downstairs) and from what I remember the rules are that wooden floors are perfectly acceptable in apartments provided a decent underlay is used which should insulate sufficiently (the felt type, not the thin plastic stuff).

With regards to your downstairs neighbours OP, depending on what your relationship/interaction has been with them so far you could have them over for breakfast/dinner/drinks/coffee or so so they can have a good chance to see what's going on in your house. Once they see that your kids aren't feral muck savages (I'll just assume they're not) maybe they can get to terms with modern apartment living.

If the relationship is already soured may I suggest a decent surround system and frequent late night viewings of movies like We Were Soldiers, Jurassic Park, anything that will give the subs a good workout really.

athtrasna

Yawns wrote: »

Quick question re: the wooden flooring. Over the last few years I've lived in 2 different apartment complexes in 2 different counties. Both had wooden flooring put in as standard when built and are in the plans. The hotel and apartment complex where I worked, all the apartments had wooden floors in the hallways, kitchens & living rooms put in as per the plans. Where would one stand with the PRTB with that. The LL nor tenant put in the wooden flooring, but the council would have signed off on the plans so to speak.

It depends on what's in the leases/deeds. All of the ones I've seen have strictly prohibited wooden floors. We looked at a few developments before we bought and all had the same conditions.

How Strange

Some but not all leases do prohibit wooden flooring but the owners overlook it/ignore it.

Op, I really can't see what the management co will achieve by going to the prtb. You've got a young family and they make noise. We've a family living above us with 2 kids under 5. The youngest seems to cry a lot and bang toys on the wooden floor and cycle a little bike around at all hours. I've never considered making a complaint as they're very nice people trying to raise their family. Now we gave a toddler with another on the way so it'll be us making the noise for the next few years.

I'm glad your landlord is on your side but perhaps get in contact with threshold as they may mediate on your behalf with the management co. I had an experience when I was the managing agent for a property where the management co wanted the family of a teenage girl evicted because she was causing a lot of anti social behaviour (which in that case she actually was) but threshold intervened and the management co had to take a big step back from being so aggressive and work towards a mediated resolution.

ad1234

How Strange wrote: »

Some but not all leases do prohibit wooden flooring but the owners overlook it/ignore it.

Op, I really can't see what the management co will achieve by going to the prtb. You've got a young family and they make noise. We've a family living above us with 2 kids under 5. The youngest seems to cry a lot and bang toys on the wooden floor and cycle a little bike around at all hours. I've never considered making a complaint as they're very nice people trying to raise their family. Now we gave a toddler with another on the way so it'll be us making the noise for the next few years.

I'm glad your landlord is on your side but perhaps get in contact with threshold as they may mediate on your behalf with the management co. I had an experience when I was the managing agent for a property where the management co wanted the family of a teenage girl evicted because she was causing a lot of anti social behaviour (which in that case she actually was) but threshold intervened and the management co had to take a big step back from being so aggressive and work towards a mediated resolution.

Thanks! I think il give them a call in the morning! Do you know is there anywhere to complain about the management comp to? Actually approaching other neighbours looking for complaints can't be right?? Thinking now too it might not just be us, the last complaint said it has stopped for a bit and started back, and our neighbours to the left have been away for a month...

68Murph68

I would advise you not to be one bit worried about this.

Given you have a raft of people still living in houses they bought despite the fact they havent paid a penny towards their mortgage for two years, its clear that there is very little the PRTB can do.

Explain that you have put down a number of rugs.

Explain that you don't wear shoes in the house.

Explain that you don't let your children play in the outside area.

Explain that you have stopped inviting people over to your residence

Ask the complainants for their evidence of this constant noise.

Do they any specific evidence of the level of noise in terms of decibels?

Ask them what specific measures they would like you to do? It should be fun to see what advice they give as regards keeping a three year old throwing a tantrum quiet.

Maybe track the three years old tantrums the next while.

You can submit this as "evidence" - describe the time, length , and nature.

Also if they have a new-born even if its sleeping all the time at the very minimum their sleep routine will have been affected by feeds. Even if the baby feeds no problem, they are most likely spending a lot of time simply caring for the baby so they will have received a major upheaval in terms of their lifestyle. As such this change in their routine could be causing them to be extra sensitive to any noise.

Explain that you have done everything possible to minimise the level of noise but there is nothing else you can do. It's not like you are deliberately throwing parties until 5 in the morning. Any of the noise they are complaining about seems to be of the nature of something you can't do anything about and that you have done everything to minimise.

A lot of the time people with noise complaints in apartment complexes are those who have moved from detached houses. There can be a significant difference in terms of acceptable background noise in a detached house compared to in an apartment complex.

Overall don't worry - there is no chance you will have to move. It's clear the problem isnt on your side, it's your neighbour's that have the issue.

athtrasna

ad1234 wrote: »

Thanks! I think il give them a call in the morning! Do you know is there anywhere to complain about the management comp to? Actually approaching other neighbours looking for complaints can't be right?? Thinking now too it might not just be us, the last complaint said it has stopped for a bit and started back, and our neighbours to the left have been away for a month...

The management company would be acting appropriately to seek investigate a persistent noise complaint. That may include approaching neighbours to see if they could confirm that it wasn't just someone making it up.

Cienciano

ad1234 wrote: »

Thanks, I hope so too. There really horrible people, best part is they just had a baby themselves, which is a new born, so all she does is sleep, there in for some shock.

This. They obviously don't know what kids are like, and they'll soon find out in a few months when their little newborn starts to crawl, walk and grab and throw everything.

Dwork

ad1234 wrote: »

Thanks, I hope so too. There really horrible people, best part is they just had a baby themselves, which is a new born, so all she does is sleep, there in for some shock.

It's just so worrying, I'm not one who's comfortable 'being in trouble'. And sick of bring afraid to move in my own house or have relatives over.

You need to develop your inner "fcuk off, eat siht and die". Make more noise, and get harder. With a little luck, the whingers will move out.:) Kids are noisy, they need to get over it, or die trying. You can always spot the "no kids types" in a restaurant, they're the ones tutting at the wailing toddler. Fcuk off, would be my attitude. Yes, I have kids.

djimi

The management company need to get your neighbours to make some recordings of said noise. If it is as bad as they are making it out to be then they shouldnt have a hard time compiling some evidence to back up their claims.

Have you tried asking your neighbours if you can come into their place to hear the so called noise for yourself?

I suspect the problem here is that you live in one of the many apartment buildings in this country that are built to the lowest standard that is humanly possible without them being at risk of physically falling down... So many modern apartments have paper thin walls and no insulation, so you may as well all be living in one great big room the way that sound travels. Unfortunately there is practically nothing that you can do, short of buying several thousand boxes of eggs to soundproof your walls, and hope that your neighbours do the same!

djimi

Dwork wrote: »

You need to develop your inner "fcuk off, eat siht and die". Make more noise, and get harder. With a little luck, the whingers will move out.:) Kids are noisy, they need to get over it, or die trying. You can always spot the "no kids types" in a restaurant, they're the ones tutting at the wailing toddler. Fcuk off, would be my attitude. Yes, I have kids.

No, they need to find out just how much of a problem this is first of all, try and see if they can see it from the neighbours point of view, then determine if there are any change that can be made to resolve the issue. Kids are noisy, but that doesnt mean your neighbours should have to put up with listening to them if they are being excessively noisy or if something can be done to alleviate the problem.

Dwork

djimi wrote: »

No, they need to find out just how much of a problem this is first of all, try and see if they can see it from the neighbours point of view, then determine if there are any change that can be made to resolve the issue. Kids are noisy, but that doesnt mean your neighbours should have to put up with listening to them if they are being excessively noisy or if something can be done to alleviate the problem.

You've no kids, so?

djimi

What difference does it make whether I do or not? If my neighbours are complaining about a noise coming from my property, be it kids, a dog, loud music etc, Id like to think that I would investigate if indeed I am causing a problem and if there is something that I can do to resolve the issue rather than just saying **** them let them get on with it and put up with it. Civilized adults try to resolve problems, not start fights with their neighbours.

Gatling

Been your land lord is on your side I suspect this isnt the first time this neighbor has complaints against the previous tenants some thing that a regular accurance in apartment complexes where one individual seems to take a dislike to people renting chances are he's an owner taken offence to rental tenants hence the prtb action don't actually think they can get involved surely the complaint should have been made to the management company then the landlord,

Supercell

I rented for more than 20 years before buying and people with kids didn't come close to people that had party nights every bloody weekend with whooohooo shouted all night. One apartment i lived beside had drums..try that on at 5am before you head into work for a 6am start..

You neighbours need to get a grip, children screaming, crying are part of normal everyday living. At least kids go to sleep usually at night and don't play loud music, drums and shout "whooohooo" at silly o'clock .

OP rest easy, kids screaming is real life - nobody is going too throw you on the street for that. The next tenant could be a whole Richter scale of noise worse than that and they know it.

Dwork

djimi wrote: »

What difference does it make whether I do or not? If my neighbours are complaining about a noise coming from my property, be it kids, a dog, loud music etc, Id like to think that I would investigate if indeed I am causing a problem and if there is something that I can do to resolve the issue rather than just saying **** them let them get on with it and put up with it. Civilized adults try to resolve problems, not start fights with their neighbours.

So. No kids. Come back when you have some. Let us know how you keep them quiet.:)

djimi

Supercell wrote: »

You neighbours need to get a grip, children screaming, crying are part of normal everyday living. At least kids go to sleep usually at night and don't play loud music, drums and shout "whooohooo" at silly o'clock .

OP rest easy, kids screaming is real life - nobody is going too throw you on the street for that. The next tenant could be a whole Richter scale of noise worse than that and they know it.

Kids screaming is not part of every day life for those who do not have kids in their house.

I completely agree that when choosing to live in an apartment you must accept that there is going to be ambient noise from your neighbours and it is something that you have to get used to. But the other side of that is that you also must accept that you have neighbours who live in very close proximity to you, and that it is your responsibility to ensure that you cause them as little disturbance as is possible. Im aware that where children are involved it is not always that easy to limit the noise, but it is up to parents to make every effort to try. That goes for any noise; not just children. I dont want to listen to my neighbours kids screaming any more than they want to listen to me playing my guitar excessively loudly. Its about finding a balance.

djimi

Dwork wrote: »

So. No kids. Come back when you have some. Let us know how you keep them quiet.:)

If you were my neighbour would you appreciate me playing my guitar loudly?

Dwork

djimi wrote: »

If you were my neighbour would you appreciate me playing my guitar loudly?

I love guitar. Are you any good? It might quieten down the kids..

djimi

Dwork wrote: »

I love guitar. Are you any good? It might quieten down the kids..

Not the stuff I play it wouldnt! I like to play loud, at night usually. Would that bother you, or would you just get on with it?

Gatling

djimi wrote: »

Not the stuff I play it wouldnt! I like to play loud, at night usually. Would that bother you, or would you just get on with it?

I'd let you play till 11pm and if you wake the missus and the kids on a school night after that then I'd borrow your guitar or guitar's most people I know always have more than one,

Then invite my friend's to play country all day or night on said borrowed item's and then ask is that annoying you

Dwork

djimi wrote: »

Not the stuff I play it wouldnt! I like to play loud, at night usually. Would that bother you, or would you just get on with it?

Like I said, I love guitar. I probably wouldn't hear you over the kids anyway. Great skill to have. Guitar that is. Anyone can have kids..:)