Noise complaint about our children...

djimi

Id prefer to listen to country music than to screaming kids :pac:

Well, actually no, thats probably not entirely true...

Supercell

djimi wrote: »

Kids screaming is not part of every day life for those who do not have kids in their house.

I completely agree that when choosing to live in an apartment you must accept that there is going to be ambient noise from your neighbours and it is something that you have to get used to. But the other side of that is that you also must accept that you have neighbours who live in very close proximity to you, and that it is your responsibility to ensure that you cause them as little disturbance as is possible. Im aware that where children are involved it is not always that easy to limit the noise, but it is up to parents to make every effort to try. That goes for any noise; not just children. I dont want to listen to my neighbours kids screaming any more than they want to listen to me playing my guitar excessively loudly. Its about finding a balance.

Kids screaming will be be erratic and occasional, your guitar playing will likely last for hours and be regular. As someone that rented beside both, I'd take the kids any day of your guitar strumming. As to your suggestions to parents to "limit the noise" ..all i can say is LOL - do you think the parents enjoy the kids noise? One day you might be a parent and will understand.

Gatling

djimi wrote: »

Id prefer to listen to country music than to screaming kids :pac:

Well, actually no, thats probably not entirely true...

I'd prefer iron maiden but I've 2 kids your probably know what I get to listen to more

ad1234

djimi wrote: »

Kids screaming is not part of every day life for those who do not have kids in their house.

I completely agree that when choosing to live in an apartment you must accept that there is going to be ambient noise from your neighbours and it is something that you have to get used to. But the other side of that is that you also must accept that you have neighbours who live in very close proximity to you, and that it is your responsibility to ensure that you cause them as little disturbance as is possible. Im aware that where children are involved it is not always that easy to limit the noise, but it is up to parents to make every effort to try. That goes for any noise; not just children. I dont want to listen to my neighbours kids screaming any more than they want to listen to me playing my guitar excessively loudly. Its about finding a balance.

They are children, little people!! Not some object to be turned on and off when suited!

Your comments are simply moronic!

If you read the above I have limited the noise to the best I can through many steps but guess what, their kids!

Please tell me how to tell a 18mth old how she's upsetting people befow her by shutting press doors too hard!! I'm only human, I can't be there to do every action for them and I defiantly Wont put my hand over their mouth when they are too loud! And if u did have kids u would be well aware that when dealing with a tantrum there is very little u can do as u will only make it worse!

I have lived under horrible tenants before who did nothing but party so I know the feeling that's y I took steps I did but short of bounding and gagging very little children what else do they expect!

nibtrix

Sounds like you've done what you can to mitigate the noise, I wouldn't worry about it any more.

ad1234 wrote: »

Please tell me how to tell a 18mth old how she's upsetting people befow her by shutting press doors too hard!!

You can get sound-dampening buffers for the doors. They're cheap and easy to install. They might or might not be effective but for the sake of a tenner it's another point in your favour in the dispute!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0075E98CK

ad1234

nibtrix wrote: »

Sounds like you've done what you can to mitigate the noise, I wouldn't worry about it any more.



You can get sound-dampening buffers for the doors. They're cheap and easy to install. They might or might not be effective but for the sake of a tenner it's another point in your favour in the dispute!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0075E98CK

Thanks!

How Strange

Op, I think this is why threshold is the best option. They'll intervene and put some control on the situation. They have more 'teeth' than the prtb a d they usually act quite quickly.

A management company is just a board of directors made up of owners. They bring their own prejudices, opinions etc to that job. They may simply not want kids and families in the development. One of the people complaining could be a friend or even a director. I knew of one management vo where the strongest directors were bullies and tried to rule with iron fists.

So you need someone strong behind you to defend your rights. Your landlord could also go down the legal route with a restraining order if he/she feels you're being subjected to unreasonable behaviour by the directors. If they're victimising you then they're in the wrong. Even if the insulation and the build quality is poor in the development that's not your fault.

djimi

ad1234 wrote: »

They are children, little people!! Not some object to be turned on and off when suited!

Your comments are simply moronic!

If you read the above I have limited the noise to the best I can through many steps but guess what, their kids!

Please tell me how to tell a 18mth old how she's upsetting people befow her by shutting press doors too hard!! I'm only human, I can't be there to do every action for them and I defiantly Wont put my hand over their mouth when they are too loud! And if u did have kids u would be well aware that when dealing with a tantrum there is very little u can do as u will only make it worse!

I have lived under horrible tenants before who did nothing but party so I know the feeling that's y I took steps I did but short of bounding and gagging very little children what else do they expect!

Listen, all I'm saying is that if (and I stress the if) your children are being excessively noisy then it's up to you to deal with it. Hence the reason why I suggested getting some proper evidence from your neighbours so that you can gauge exactly what they see to be a problem. It more than likely is that they are being too sensitive, buy maybe if you hear things from their point of view you might see something that would help you alleviate the issue. It's just a suggestion to try and resolve the problem. If nothing else, at least it shows them that you are trying to work with them.

I'm not sure how to properly articulate my point without coming across like one of those cranky childless people who can't tolerate a single noise that a child makes, so I'll probably leave it at that. I'm not trying to suggest that children should not ever make noise, nor am I saying that it's up to parents to ensure that their children are silent.

JONJO THE MISER

And this is why i always advise people not to buy apartments, its okay when your single but when you want to have kids, bringing them up in a apartment is not the best thing.

Solair

I'd add that a lot of Irish apartments also have relatively poor sound-proofing (there are a few exceptions but not many).

We rented in central Cork a few years ago and there were wild parties, gates banging at all hours, people running washing machines into the night - totally crazy stuff.

I actually don't think kids running around is THAT bad, but the apartment should be built properly in the first place.

I lived in continental apartments and people did lots of normal stuff but the sound didn't travel through the structures of the building as it was properly sound proofed and well-designed.

I've rented apartments here were you could hear everything from above/next door. It's often not the people's fault, it's the construction companies' when it's just normal noise.

Gatling

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

And this is why i always advise people not to buy apartments, its okay when your single but when you want to have kids, bringing them up in a apartment is not the best thing.

The rest of European countries have huge population's raised in apartments for generations ,the problem is and always will be people with power trips owners v rentals ,
Kid make noise and so do single people but yet families get crucified by management companies for making noise ,

I'd love for a law change that would allow rental tenants to be part of apartment association's

witchgirl26

OP - I have to agree to an extent with what djimi is trying to get across. Not saying that you have to keep your kids silent all the time but if there is persistent noise complaints, I would expect the management company to investigate. If you can show that you've done all you can to mitigate the noise and that it's not occuring at unreasonable hours (ie 5am banging & stuff like that) then you should be fine. And from the sounds of it you have done this.

I live in apartments with wooden floors (standard throughout the block). My upstairs neighbours have kids & sometimes it does frustrate me when I can hear them but unless it was a ridiculous amount of noise at unreasonable hours, I'd never dream to complain.

I hope it gets resolved for you OP and in your favour too.

the_syco

ad1234 wrote: »

Thinking now too it might not just be us, the last complaint said it has stopped for a bit and started back, and our neighbours to the left have been away for a month...

3+3=10, tbh. It seems that they've gotten noise problems, looked for what could cause noise, saw your kids, and decided to blame your kids for the noise. Perhaps when they come back with when all the noise happened, and stopped, you can point them towards the other neighbours?

Dwork wrote: »

So. No kids. Come back when you have some. Let us know how you keep them quiet.:)

YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAAAAN, YOU WEREN'T AT VEEET-F**KING-NAM, YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THE SCREAMS I HEARD, MAAAAN...
Bullsh|t.

Supercell wrote: »

..all i can say is LOL - do you think the parents enjoy the kids noise? One day you might be a parent and will understand.

Although true to a point, some parents shouldn't be parents. The OP sounds grand, and they've done more than enough, so it's not directed at them. More towards the parents who feel it's okay for their little terrors to be roaming the streets at 1am when they're not even ten years old, and leave them alone in the apartment during the day.

Gatling wrote: »

The rest of European countries have huge population's raised in apartments for generations

Since the Celtic Tiger, the Irish have forgotten how to build decent apartments for the most part. Apartments are so bad you can hear the neighbours pissing into the toilet next door (I kid you not).

Gatling

Yeah but in fairness apartment's built over the last say 50 years across europe don't have sound proofing or double or triple glazing either but yet people managed to live in peace together and it seem's maintain a sense of community, where here its all about my space my comfort ,my,my,my its shouldn't be a case oh you have no right have kids if living in an apartment or raising families in an apartment,

A bit of maturity and community goes a long way

username123

Yawns wrote: »

Solution: Maybe he should move to a detached house if he wants absolute peace. If he wants apartment living, then he has to accept the daily life of others around him.

You know I could just as easily say, if people want to raise children without disturbing their neighbours then they should move to a detached house.

The funny thing about either of those solutions is the absolute intolerance and immaturity of both.

Adults who live in apartments need to accept that there will be some amount of noise from surrounding apartments. But they also need to accept that if they are excessively bothering a neighbour with noise, they should reasonably try to resolve that. Im not paying a mortgage so I can be kept awake by your child screaming/your dog barking/your guitar playing etc...

You actually can hear people going to the loo in the apartment next to me. I am lucky in that most people in my block are aware that sound travels so do their best to ensure that the noise is kept to a minimum.

People here advising the OP to make more noise or to just ignore the complaint or the ultimate "you dont have kids so you dont have a valid opinion" are just plain wrong. Starting turf wars with the neighbours because you wont listen to a reasonable complaint is not a good road to start down and anyone who does it is a moron tbh.

username123

the_syco wrote: »

YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAAAAN, YOU WEREN'T AT VEEET-F**KING-NAM, YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THE SCREAMS I HEARD, MAAAAN...
Bullsh|t.

That is the best response I have ever seen on a message board to the moronic suggestion that people who dont have kids dont understand. I will be borrowing it from you at some stage I think.

Having kids doesnt give people the right to noise pollute.

Yawns

Re-read the part you quoted. I'll highlight the important bit for you

Solution: Maybe he should move to a detached house if he wants absolute peace. If he wants apartment living, then he has to accept the daily life of others around him.

There are plenty of people without kids living in apartments where neighbours may have kids and they accept the noise as a part of apartment living. My point was that if he wants to live in his home and expects no noise from neighbours at reasonable times then he should live in a detached house.

Unless you think a 3 year old and an 18 month old making noise after 8am is not unreasonable...

In this case the complaint is not reasonable. Noise from kids after 8am is not a reasonable excuse to make a complaint over. So in this instance, with the OP having done enough to reduce noise, I certainly would suggest them to ignore this person. There's people out there who like to moan over absolutely anything no matter how small. They'd argue that the sky is only cloudy since you moved in if you let them.

username123

Yawns wrote: »

Unless you think a 3 year old and an 18 month old making noise after 8am is not unreasonable...

It depends on the level of noise, you have no idea how loud the noise is, no do you have any idea if the complaint is reasonable or not.

The point is, it is not mature to simply ignore the complaints of a neighbour that you have to live in such close proximity to.

I have recently had cause to complain about noise pollution due to a faulty alarm going off all day long in a nearby apartment. It was after 8am, so by your logic this is reasonable?

Dwork

username123 wrote: »

That is the best response I have ever seen on a message board to the moronic suggestion that people who dont have kids dont understand. I will be borrowing it from you at some stage I think.

Having kids doesnt give people the right to noise pollute.

People who don't have kids don't understand.:) Also, no, no it isn't the best ever. Moronic? Kkk.

username123 wrote: »

It depends on the level of noise, you have no idea how loud the noise is, no do you have any idea if the complaint is reasonable or not.

The point is, it is not mature to simply ignore the complaints of a neighbour that you have to live in such close proximity to.

I have recently had cause to complain about noise pollution due to a faulty alarm going off all day long in a nearby apartment. It was after 8am, so by your logic this is reasonable?

I don't remember, ever, not once, claiming maturity as a virtue of mine.:)

I lived in an estate of houses for a year a while back, I bought one to live in while refurbishing my own place. The neighbours popped round to complain about the noise the kids(who were playing with other neighbours kids and were not being remotely noisy)were making. This was at four in the afternoon. My wife engaged with them on the doorstep in a "ohh, sorry, yes indeed, oh deary" manner. I wandered out, said "hello, please fcuk off right away" and shut the door.

I had to laugh at the neck of them as two days later they had a load of their single friends around and the party went on until the wee hours, music banging. I didn't feel I had "cause"(pfft) to go around and complain. But by the same token, don't come banging on my door with your guff. I will happily give you an immature two fingers.:) Or a slap in the puss, if you feel you really need one.

jd

Gatling wrote: »

I'd love for a law change that would allow rental tenants to be part of apartment association's

That's not going to happen but the MUD act states that

House rules made under subsection (1) shall be made in a
manner consistent with—
(a) the objective of advancing the quiet and peaceful enjoyment of the property by the unit owners and the occupiers, and
(b) the objective of the fair and equitable balancing of the
rights and obligations of the occupiers and the unit
owners,

and my reading of the act is that an occupier can apply to the circuit court if they feel their rights are being breached.

Yawns

username123 wrote: »

It depends on the level of noise, you have no idea how loud the noise is, no do you have any idea if the complaint is reasonable or not.

In this case the OP said it's constant complaints about noise in the morning and screaming which happens after 8am. The complaints are constant despite the OP putting down rugs and ensuring no shoes are worn indoors and keeps kids away from play area near there apartment. The complaints still come. Do they expect the OP to muzzle their children?

The point is, it is not mature to simply ignore the complaints of a neighbour that you have to live in such close proximity to.

Sometimes it actually is the best thing to put your foot down with some people from the beginning, otherwise they think they have reign to continue on. From personal experience and from stories it's generally those who own apartments who complain the most about people who rent next to them.

I have recently had cause to complain about noise pollution due to a faulty alarm going off all day long in a nearby apartment. It was after 8am, so by your logic this is reasonable?

People can have control over an alarm. You cannot expect a child to be quiet 100% of the time. If it was a case of the OP's kids running about screaming all night long such as 10 - 2am then it would certainly be a valid complaint. After 8am in the morning someone complaining about something ordinary such as kids playing is unreasonable. It's akin to moaning about a neighbour going out and starting his noisy diesel car at 8am to go to work. The OP has taken steps to rectify the situation as best they can.

nick 56

Years ago at the start of the housing boom I was working as a plumber fitting out blocks of new flats (or apartments) as we were taught to call them.

In the pub one of my workmates said to me “you know what we are doing – we are building the tenements of the future” He was right.

A lot of building design and work done during the building boom in Ireland was to be blunt poor at best.

As in priory hall where the residents and apartment owners in let down by a failure to set and enforce standards is an extreme example. People who get upset by the noise children make should avoid apartments where families are allowed to own/ rent.

I cannot see what can be done if couples are stuck in apartments by negative equity then have kids or landlords desperate for paying tenants rent to couples with kids.

username123

Yawns wrote: »

People can have control over an alarm.

All I can say to this is that I would expect people to have control over their kids.

Some people work from home or study from home, it is unreasonable that they are to be disturbed by other residents (whether it be an alarm, a dog barking, a child etc....).

I would be inclined to think that the onus is on people with children who have no alternative but to live in an apartment (who cannot afford a detached house for example) in close proximity to others to do their utmost not to be disturbing the neighbours. I myself am considerate of my neighbours, I would be mortified if I thought I was disturbing them daily.

Yawns

username123 wrote: »

All I can say to this is that I would expect people to have control over their kids.

Some people work from home or study from home, it is unreasonable that they are to be disturbed by other residents (whether it be an alarm, a dog barking, a child etc....).

I would be inclined to think that the onus is on people with children who have no alternative but to live in an apartment (who cannot afford a detached house for example) in close proximity to others to do their utmost not to be disturbing the neighbours. I myself am considerate of my neighbours, I would be mortified if I thought I was disturbing them daily.

Would you agree that the OP is doing the utmost to stop their kids from disturbing the neighbours?

If you thing the OP is doing enough, then would you agree that for the complaints to continue about kids noise levels after 8am is unreasonable?

If you thing the OP is NOT doing enough then what would your next step be to keep the kids quiet. A muzzle?

Noone wants to set out to disturb neighbours. Unfortunately sometimes it can and does happen. If it's on a constant basis and no reasonable excuse then complaints can be justified. So if an alarm goes off regularly due to not being set right or not functioning correctly, then a complaint is valid. If an alarm goes off once then it would be unreasonable to lodge a complaint to mgmt. company and try to get PRTB involved.

ad1234

username123 wrote: »

All I can say to this is that I would expect people to have control over their kids.

Some people work from home or study from home, it is unreasonable that they are to be disturbed by other residents (whether it be an alarm, a dog barking, a child etc....).

I would be inclined to think that the onus is on people with children who have no alternative but to live in an apartment (who cannot afford a detached house for example) in close proximity to others to do their utmost not to be disturbing the neighbours. I myself am considerate of my neighbours, I would be mortified if I thought I was disturbing them daily.

Eh do you think I like upsetting others, Hence why I took the only steps I could to restrict noise levels!

And as for controlling them! You do not know my children, they are lovely polite little girls, not some anti social out of control latch key kids! They play with their teddys and dollies! One of the complaints was in regards to the noise of banging on the floor, which turned out to be my youngest crawling and it was the slapping of her hands on the floor! (why I put down rugs)! Would you suggest I stopped little children from developing! Babies crawl!!

They are people too! With their own personal need and personalities! Not something to be controlled!

I am an excellent mother who is raising her children very well! How dare anyone suggest I "control" them! There are doing nothing more than living! As stated before if I had them up all hours screaming and causing a dreadful time for the community then your comment could be valid but there not!

Yawns

When moving to my current place I was forewarned by my LL and by two neighbours about the other neighbour. It's 4 apartments to a block here. The one other neighbour likes to complain about the tenants that rent this apartment. Only this one as it's rented where the other 3 own theirs. The last tenants crime was the cooking smelled. She didn't cook all day, every day and she didn't bother the other 2 neighbours. But the smell of the cooking was enough for the other neighbour to complain everyday and get the management company to take action. The tenant gave up and moved out.

My child had a cough about 2 weeks after we moved in. After a few minutes she was banging on the wall and then knocked on the door to tell me to keep him quiet. Well I didn't stand for that & told her where to go. She had the management company come around who also got short shift from me about it. While it was taking him weeks to hand over a parking permit for my spot, he was up in 30 minutes to make a complaint about a 3 year old coughing which started that day. He came around an hour later with the permits then and stayed away since. She hasn't complained since either which was well cos she's a noisy woman anyway. She laid down floorboards and walks in high heels all day. I've not complained once about a neighbour as noise can be part of apartment living. It's as simple as that.

After a few months she actually started to respond to my hellos when we passed in the hall. Since then everything's been fine. We can actually stop and havea conversation these days. If I hadn't put my foot down at the start tho, she most likely would have taken it for granted she could get away with any complaint and the same for the mgmt. director.

username123

ad1234 wrote: »

Eh do you think I like upsetting others, Hence why I took the only steps I could to restrict noise levels!

No, I was responding to people who were of the inclination of "ignore the complaints".

ad1234 wrote: »

And as for controlling them! You do not know my children, they are lovely polite little girls, not some anti social out of control latch key kids! They play with their teddys and dollies! One of the complaints was in regards to the noise of banging on the floor, which turned out to be my youngest crawling and it was the slapping of her hands on the floor! (why I put down rugs)! Would you suggest I stopped little children from developing! Babies crawl!!

They are people too! With their own personal need and personalities! Not something to be controlled!

Well then given what you are saying above, do you think apartment living is suitable for your children? If you feel that keeping them quiet is stopping them from developing, maybe a different environment would be more suitable for them?

ad1234 wrote: »

I am an excellent mother who is raising her children very well! How dare anyone suggest I "control" them! There are doing nothing more than living! As stated before if I had them up all hours screaming and causing a dreadful time for the community then your comment could be valid but there not!

I never suggested you werent an excellent mother. I was actually responding to other posters here when I said that people should be able to control their children.

I live in an apartment too, do you think its fair when people are being disturbed when they are doing nothing more than living either?

There should be reasonable accommodation both ways.

I am sorry you seem offended, I wasnt even directly responding to anything you had said, simply pointing out that other people have a right to the peaceful enjoyment of their homes too and that having children is not a licence for noise pollution. There are posters on this thread actually advocating assault as a resolution to the problem. I simply think that people should be open to listening to a neighbour if they have a problem (never said you werent), should be open to trying to resolve it (you have done).

Dwork

username123 wrote: »

No, I was responding to people who were of the inclination of "ignore the complaints".



Well then given what you are saying above, do you think apartment living is suitable for your children? If you feel that keeping them quiet is stopping them from developing, maybe a different environment would be more suitable for them?



I never suggested you werent an excellent mother. I was actually responding to other posters here when I said that people should be able to control their children.

I live in an apartment too, do you think its fair when people are being disturbed when they are doing nothing more than living either?

There should be reasonable accommodation both ways.

I am sorry you seem offended, I wasnt even directly responding to anything you had said, simply pointing out that other people have a right to the peaceful enjoyment of their homes too and that having children is not a licence for noise pollution. There are posters on this thread actually advocating assault as a resolution to the problem. I simply think that people should be open to listening to a neighbour if they have a problem (never said you werent), should be open to trying to resolve it (you have done).

Reality is though, if an apartment is where you live, that's where you're raising your kids.:) Advocating assault, I love that one. You might be a bit more cultured than me. Nobody bangs on our door complaining anyway, the dog would eat them. Or the kids. I'd be waay down the queue. You'd love living next door to us! You'd beg the good lord to bring back all the old problems of "noise" you had to "endure".:D When the welders fire up, all the lights dim in the area. Would that bother you? Hah.You wouldn't know when you had it good.

ad1234

username123 wrote: »

No, I was responding to people who were of the inclination of "ignore the complaints".



Well then given what you are saying above, do you think apartment living is suitable for your children? If you feel that keeping them quiet is stopping them from developing, maybe a different environment would be more suitable for them?



I never suggested you werent an excellent mother. I was actually responding to other posters here when I said that people should be able to control their children.

I live in an apartment too, do you think its fair when people are being disturbed when they are doing nothing more than living either?

There should be reasonable accommodation both ways.

I am sorry you seem offended, I wasnt even directly responding to anything you had said, simply pointing out that other people have a right to the peaceful enjoyment of their homes too and that having children is not a licence for noise pollution. There are posters on this thread actually advocating assault as a resolution to the problem. I simply think that people should be open to listening to a neighbour if they have a problem (never said you werent), should be open to trying to resolve it (you have done).

Thanks I thought you were having a go like a few others on here.

Just so sick of it. Constant worry from it. Were not bad neighbours. We get on very well with the community.

Is there anything the developers can do does anyone know or mgmt company to better insulate or are they obliged to?

I can't afford to and our land lords are an elderly couple so they defiantly can't afford to either.

And in relation to it in my opinion being suitable, firstly we can't afford to move and we definatly don't want to. We have friends and love it here. Our house is more of a lathe house with am apt below, it's like a townhouse, 2 floors, 3 bed and 3 bath, with a considerable sized outdoor area. It's really suitable for families and there is mainly families in the similar properties around us.

Best thing is the 2bed houses in the area are available to rent for the same price their 2 bed apt is being rented for. They had this option.

I can't cope with the harrassment anymore over it. Just feel like screaming Ive done what I can leave me alone!!

I gave birth in this house, it means more to me than just four Walls, it is our family home and when we are in a position to buy we will be approaching the land lords first. Were going no where.

dazed+confused

Dwork wrote: »

You've no kids, so?

Ah, the ultimate "I'm right, you're wrong" answer to any argument.

No children no? You won't be winning this argument so! Your effective use of contraception over the years means that you could not possibly understand what this person is going through! It's on par with the Vietnam argument "You weren't there man!"