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Advice Badly Needed re Marathon Training

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  • 16-03-2013 1:08pm
    #1
    Shell to Run
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭


    Ok here goes. Five weeks left to London, have been following the Hal Higdon Intermediate II training plan. I am on week 13 this week 5m /10m/5m /10m pace /20m. I literally have enough now and cannot bear the thought of another twenty miles in two weeks time (week 15) which is a repeat of week 13. With the Tuesday runs on the programme I have substituted that with a speed session with the local club. I find this very enjoyable. The remainder of the weeks I can manage but not week 15. I want to do a local 10km that week– is this bad idea? Do I really need to do another 20 miles 3 weeks before London? Would it be more beneficial to do 15m at pace? My long runs to date have all gone very well 13m/ 14m /16m/17m/ 19m/20m/20m. I am an experienced runner and this will be my sixth marathon. No health issues, diet etc. Well on schedule for marathon pace. Sorry for ramble, I suppose I am just hoping that someone reading this could possible offer an alternative to 20m long run three weeks before London. All advice appreciated:)


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    #2
    ultraman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭ultraman1


    maybe ask athe a/r/ forum....these guys only know a third of wats required:)


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    #3
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    ultraman1 wrote: »
    maybe ask athe a/r/ forum....these guys only know a third of wats required:)

    Emmm, plenty of long distance triathletes* here who are marathon runners. :P

    The first thing to do is convert all your miles into kilometers and then we can talk a common language...

    I was injured for my last marathon attempt so I never got to deliver on the training I was doing but a staple factor was a long progression run which was far more entertaining than slogging out mile after mile km after km.

    There are plenty of experienced marathoners around these parts who will be happy to help.


    *AKA Ironmen


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    #4
    shotgunmcos
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    What purpose would that 20 miler serve? Does it have PMP miles in it?
    a 15m progression run would be just as beneficial in my opinion and require less recovery. 5m easy, 5m PMP, 5m pmp -5 secs or something like that.

    Whatever way you do a 15m, do it good. Do it with relevance for the Marathon. Personally I'd do 12 if not all 15 at PMP. Each to his/her own. If you complete a solid 15m knowing you have lots more in the tank, that will serve you well.

    You are following a stock plan. Albeit suited to good marathoners but always take a plan by feel, not literally, even if prescribed by an individual coach.

    A local 10k is not a suitable replacement for a 20miler but hey if you feel you have enough long runs in the tank and a 10k will inject motivation, do what you want.

    I'd take 95% fit and raring to go over, 101% fit and tired any day. :)


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    #5
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Looks to me like you have plenty of long runs done and in the plan. Do your 10k race and lob a couple of miles warm up and a couple of miles warm down and you'll be fine. 10 miles with 10k at a fast pace will be as good as a 15 mile or so long run.

    Whats your goal for London?


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    #6
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    always take a plan by feel, not literally, even if prescribed by an individual coach
    This.

    Even if you were following the plan and intended to do it by the letter, you should always consider (realistically) how you feel on any day or week of the plan. A plan is a guide, not a rule book.

    Your head, or your body, or something, is telling you you cannot face another 20 miler. So what is to be gained by doing it? You'll dread it, and hate it and see it as penance. Far better to do your happy 10k with maybe some addtional mileage tagged on.

    You're good for the marathon without it I reckon, what youve done so far is damn good. So why demotivate yourself tagging on another 20 miles because the plan says you must? Keeping the head right is as important as the body imo.


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    #7
    Shell to Run
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Shell to Run


    ultraman1 wrote: »
    maybe ask athe a/r/ forum....these guys only know a third of wats required:)

    Purposely put my query in this forum as I omitted to mention that I also swim and bike weekly (avg 160km). Plan to do Ironman this year, August. I figured if I put this in the athletics forum the advice I would get is that I need to do two more twenties!!Mileage mad over there.;) Have received advice from this forum in the past and its been top class.


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    #8
    ultraman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭ultraman1


    Shell to Run wrote: »
    Purposely put my query in this forum as I omitted to mention that I also swim and bike weekly (avg 160km). Plan to do Ironman this year, August. I figured if I put this in the athletics forum the advice I would get is that I need to do two more twenties!!Mileage mad over there.;) Have received advice from this forum in the past and its been top class.
    id go for three:D....i was only being facetious re: a/r forum,,id advise somthing similar to what racoon said


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    #9
    Shell to Run
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Shell to Run


    Thank you for replies and although I am still undecided about the 20miles I have given it plenty of thought and am considering the advise I have received here. Possible to options.
    shotgunmcos wrote: »

    Personally I'd do 12 if not all 15 at PMP.

    Option 1 Considering doing 15 at PMP.
    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Do your 10k race and lob a couple of miles warm up and a couple of miles warm down and you'll be fine. 10 miles with 10k at a fast pace will be as good as a 15 mile or so long run.
    Oryx wrote: »
    This.


    Your head, or your body, or something, is telling you you cannot face another 20 miler. So what is to be gained by doing it? You'll dread it, and hate it and see it as penance. Far better to do your happy 10k with maybe some addtional mileage tagged on.

    Option 2 10km race and miles added on.

    Have yet to decide but will keep you posted. Oryx, thank you for the sound advise, you are so right, it is only a guide, but heck it so easy to become a slave to these things. RQ aiming for 3:25. Well done yesterday, smashing run and PB.


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    #10
    KentuckyPete
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭KentuckyPete


    I'd go with the 15 instead of the 20 but I'd make it a bit of a challenge. Either do the whole thing at PMP or do a progression run (5 at PMP +30, 5 at PMP + 15, 5 at PMP).

    Be careful with the 10k. If you're going for that one flat out then the 15 at PMP might be too much the same week and the progression might be a better approach.

    Assuming you've done your miles then 15 versus 20 three weeks out isn't going to be a big deal either way.


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    #11
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    whats your weakness and your strenght in running ?


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    #12
    Shell to Run
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Shell to Run


    KentuckyPete wrote: »
    I'd go with the 15 instead of the 20 but I'd make it a bit of a challenge. Either do the whole thing at PMP or do a progression run (5 at PMP +30, 5 at PMP + 15, 5 at PMP).

    A third option to consider. Thank you.
    Option 3 - 15 mile progression run.
    peter kern wrote: »
    whats your weakness and your strenght in running ?


    What a good question certainly made me think. Below are my Strengths and Weaknesses during races:

    Strengths
    Pacing
    Strong Finish
    Mentally tough
    Positive
    Enjoy running, love it, especially hills:D

    Weakness
    Could have done better
    Do not take a risk –conservative
    Get caught up in how ‘well’ others are doing:eek:.


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    #13
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    Shell to Run wrote: »
    A third option to consider. Thank you.
    Option 3 - 15 mile progression run.




    What a good question certainly made me think. Below are my Strengths and Weaknesses during races:

    Strengths
    Pacing
    Strong Finish
    Mentally tough
    Positive
    Enjoy running, love it, especially hills:D

    Weakness
    Could have done better
    Do not take a risk –conservative
    Get caught up in how ‘well’ others are doing:eek:.


    sounds like the option 3 is a good one then, and the 20 miler not really needed. faster and shorter more beneficial.
    also to consider do the 10 k run race as a fast trainings run and then 90 min at Ironman race pace on the bike.


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    #14
    Shell to Run
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Shell to Run


    peter kern wrote: »
    sounds like the option 3 is a good one then, and the 20 miler not really needed. faster and shorter more beneficial.
    also to consider do the 10 k run race as a fast trainings run and then 90 min at Ironman race pace on the bike.

    OK, will do Peter, thank you:D


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    #15
    Shell to Run
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Shell to Run


    Dread is an awful feeling to control in running. Nothing worse than heading out the door ‘dreading’ a run. Well I mulled over the much appreciated advice I received from you guys and then just went ahead and did what was on the plan –20 miles! Reconsidering my original post I think it was more re-assurance I needed as oppose to advice. Reaching the last long session of a marathon plan is a tough place to be. The body is saying enough and the mind is saying stick to the plan. Plans are great but they need to be flexible too. Good Friday, group of seven and ten miles PMP+30sec and ten PMP miles. Dread alleviated by the company of watching others struggle too:p. Found it tough around mile 5/6 at PMP but finished strong.
    Well three weeks left to London and 12 miles on the menu for next week and then its easy sailing til the big day. Thanks for all the food for thought, it was very helpful


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