National Humiliation

the emperors innuendo

I was having breakfast this morning while listening to the radio the news came on. It came as a surprise to me that one of the headlines had to do with a commemoration that was taking place in England to commemorate an IRA bombing which took place over 20 years ago.
It came as a surprise to me that for some reason the producers of 'Spirit FM' thought that Irish people would even care about this considering the fact that this happened a long time ago within a larger context and that this somehow amounted to Irish news.

So I came to the conclusion that this headline is part of a much wider campaign of national humiliation that we ought to be reminded and ashamed of an IRA bombing which took place in England 20 years ago. It’s no surprise to me that the headline coincided with the ST. Patricks weekend and perhaps the headline is a suggestion to Irish people that we should disassociate ourselves from feelings of national pride which has the potential to rise during the month of Easter and St. Patricks festivities.

Am I the only the one who sees that the media reminds of random events from the troubles which portray nationalists as the perpetrators of violence? I never recall the media announcing the countless commemorations which take place during the year to commemorate Irish nationalists or Irish civilians who fell victim to the British? Perhaps its inconvenient for them to do so considering in may have the potential to arouse a nationalist sentiment in the population and god forbid, a dislike for the British Government...

pablomakaveli

It seems more like your mountain out of a molehill tbh

sparkling sea

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I was having breakfast this morning while listening to the radio the news came on. It came as a surprise to me that one of the headlines had to do with a commemoration that was taking place in England to commemorate an IRA bombing which took place over 20 years ago.
It came as a surprise to me that for some reason the producers of 'Spirit FM' thought that Irish people would even care about this considering the fact that this happened a long time ago within a larger context and that this somehow amounted to Irish news.

So I came to the conclusion that this headline is part of a much wider campaign of national humiliation that we ought to be reminded and ashamed of an IRA bombing which took place in England 20 years ago. It’s no surprise to me that the headline coincided with the ST. Patricks weekend and perhaps the headline is a suggestion to Irish people that we should disassociate ourselves from feelings of national pride which has the potential to rise during the month of Easter and St. Patricks festivities.

Am I the only the one who sees that the media reminds of random events from the troubles which portray nationalists as the perpetrators of violence? I never recall the media announcing the countless commemorations which take place during the year to commemorate Irish nationalists or Irish civilians who fell victim to the British? Perhaps its inconvenient for them to do so considering in may have the potential to arouse a nationalist sentiment in the population and god forbid, a dislike for the British Government...

National Humiliation - The Cranberries wrote Zombies in memory of the victims of the bombing.

Many books of condolence were signed by many thousands of Irish people - the main book was at the GPO

Warrington bomb attacks 1993 - a 3 year old lttle boy and a 12 year old boy were murdered in one of these attacks, not a random event in any way; many Irish people will never forget the horror and pain caused by the bombing. I delighted to here about the commemoration.

Should anyone else be interested this is from Wikipedia - least we forget what these people did.

Three-year-old Johnathan Ball died at the scene, while his babysitter survived. The second victim, 12-year-old Tim Parry, who received the full force of the blast, was gravely wounded. He died on 25 March 1993 when doctors switched his life support machine off, having asked permission to do so from his family, after a series of tests had found minimal brain activity. Fifty-four other people were injured, four of them seriously

gandalf

I doubt very much that this or any other commemoration is held to be a national humiliation but rather as a commemoration to those murdered and maimed by criminal acts.

I certainly am mature enough to feel sympathy towards those effected by the murderous act of fanatics.

gallag

I think 90%+ of our irish neighbours would feel sympathy on occasions like this but certainly should not feel shame, also what exactly makes you feel proud on paddys day? Largest collective exercising of the liver?

Sunnyisland

Where as all victims of the troubles/war/terrorism from all sides should be honored and remembered, Its a pity the same is not done for the most horrific of all the atrocities that has occurred,that of the case of the Dublin & monaghan bombings in which over 33 civilians were killed and 300 wounded,including an unborn child – the highest number of casualties in any one day,.Albeit a small ceremony does happen every year,it certainly does not get the media attention it deserves and like a lot of these other atrocities no one has ever been brought to justice, A lot of government files both British and Irish remain closed on the case. least we forget indeed.

A Dub in Glasgo

Having empathy with the victims of Warrington has nothing to with National Humiliation

murphaph

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

Am I the only the one who sees that the media reminds of random events from the troubles which portray nationalists as the perpetrators of violence? I never recall the media announcing the countless commemorations which take place during the year to commemorate Irish nationalists or Irish civilians who fell victim to the British? Perhaps its inconvenient for them to do so considering in may have the potential to arouse a nationalist sentiment in the population and god forbid, a dislike for the British Government...

Warrington marked a real turning point for the IRA. It turned many against them who may have sympathised with their behaviour.

That's the reason Warrington isn't as quickly forgotten. It's also in living memory for people like me whereas the equally tragic bombings of the 1970s are not. You'll notice there are no commemorations of the pub bombings by the IRA and no large scale ones for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. 20 years ago is not that long for me, maybe you're just younger and it seems a long time ago to you?

the emperors innuendo

murphaph wrote: »

Warrington marked a real turning point for the IRA. It turned many against them who may have sympathised with their behaviour.

That's the reason Warrington isn't as quickly forgotten. It's also in living memory for people like me whereas the equally tragic bombings of the 1970s are not. You'll notice there are no commemorations of the pub bombings by the IRA and no large scale ones for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. 20 years ago is not that long for me, maybe you're just younger and it seems a long time ago to you?

I think the media has some cheek to mention the war during a weekend of festivities. I for one don't really care what the IRA did and I certainly won't have it rubbed in my face while having breakfast.
Do you think the British public would be interested hearing about Bloody Sunday or the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings commemorations on the eve of the Royal Wedding? Of course not, there is a time and a place for such discussions.
The problem here is that the media plays on the Irish guilt complex now that the church has lost its place in society people need something to substitute that void with and what better way to do it with IRA atrocities to remind us of all the bad things done in our name!

murphaph

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I think the media has some cheek to mention the war during a weekend of festivities. I for one don't really care what the IRA did and I certainly won't have it rubbed in my face while having breakfast.
Do you think the British public would be interested hearing about Bloody Sunday or the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings commemorations on the eve of the Royal Wedding? Of course not, there is a time and a place for such discussions.
The problem here is that the media plays on the Irish guilt complex now that the church has lost its place in society people need something to substitute that void with and what better way to do it with IRA atrocities to remind us of all the bad things done in our name!

They weren't done in my name. You're free to just listen to some other radio station if you don't want reminding.

oscarBravo

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I for one don't really care what the IRA did...

Maybe you should.

Gregor Samsa

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

It’s no surprise to me that the headline coincided with the ST. Patricks weekend

The Warrington bombing happened on the 20th of March, 1993. You can hardly say that its 20th anniversary "coinciding" with St. Patrick's weekend is some kind of conspiracy. It's a simple historic fact.

I'm not sure if you were alive 20 years ago, or if you were, what awareness you had of the current affairs of the time. But it was a major story at the time, that marked a watershed in many Irish people's attitude to the IRA's campaign, and I don't see any problem with the 20th anniversary being newsworthy.

the emperors innuendo

I'm sure if you typed in the month of march into the chronology of the troubles you will find many more events worthy of a commemoration. I won't raise my kids leading them to believe that the IRA were the perpetrators of violence when it was the British who instigated the violence. I won't allow the media whitewash a conflict with their own distorted view of what happened. I know what happened and I won't be subjected to any type of national humiliation

Zillah

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I'm sure if you typed in the month of march into the chronology of the troubles you will find many more events worthy of a commemoration. I won't raise my kids leading them to believe that the IRA were the perpetrators of violence when it was the British who instigated the violence. I won't allow the media whitewash a conflict with their own distorted view of what happened. I know what happened and I won't be subjected to any type of national humiliation

Most Irish people are opposed to the IRA, what they did and we have no problem with British people. Sorry you are stuck in the proverbial dark ages of Irish culture.

bbam

oscarBravo wrote: »

Maybe you should.

We should know what happened , know the facts of what
Was done by all involved, not just the IRA.

But we shouldn't be humiliated by it.

These things were done by people who couldn't see any other way forward, we didn't vote for it to be done, there was no referendum. These people acted on their own ideas and then they implied that we were all ok with the killing of people in our name due to some cause they were interested in.

A Dub in Glasgo

From Wikipedia, from March 1993

1993
20 March Warrington bomb attacks – after a telephoned warning, the PIRA exploded two bombs in Warrington, Cheshire, England. Two children were killed and fifty-six people were wounded. There were widespread protests in Britain and Ireland following the deaths.
25 March Castlerock killings – the UDA, using the covername "Ulster Freedom Fighters" (UFF), claimed responsibility for shooting dead four Catholic civilians and a PIRA volunteer at a building site in Castlerock, County Londonderry. Later in the day it claimed responsibility for shooting dead another Catholic civilian in Belfast.[89]

ardmacha

Warrington was notable for two things. It happened at the end of troubles when talks were already taking place, albeit secretly. As such it was a disappointment to many people. But also for the character of the parents of the deceased, who sought to advance peace. Spirit FM might well think this an important thing.

It is true that the British media do not care about Irish people killed by the British, but the conduct of the British is not a proper guide to behaviour.

oscarBravo

bbam wrote: »

We should know what happened , know the facts of what
Was done by all involved, not just the IRA.

But we shouldn't be humiliated by it.

I know the facts of what was done by everyone involved. I'm not humiliated by it.

These things were done by people who couldn't see any other way forward...

It takes some pretty breathtaking myopia not to be able to see any other way forward than blowing up a shopping centre.

smcgiff

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

From Wikipedia, from March 1993

Quote:



1993
20 March Warrington bomb attacks – after a telephoned warning, the PIRA exploded two bombs in Warrington, Cheshire, England. Two children were killed and fifty-six people were wounded. There were widespread protests in Britain and Ireland following the deaths.
25 March Castlerock killings – the UDA, using the covername "Ulster Freedom Fighters" (UFF), claimed responsibility for shooting dead four Catholic civilians and a PIRA volunteer at a building site in Castlerock, County Londonderry. Later in the day it claimed responsibility for shooting dead another Catholic civilian in Belfast.[89]

Both of these atrocities were done by Irish people - not the Brits.

It's right and proper that Warrington is remembered. It was a turning point.

The animals in the UFF were... animals.

djpbarry

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I won't raise my kids leading them to believe that the IRA were the perpetrators of violence when it was the British who instigated the violence.

Thanks for dropping the pretence that this has anything to do with St. Patrick's Day.

ardmacha wrote: »

It is true that the British media do not care about Irish people killed by the British...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/bloody_sunday

Play To Kill

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I think the media has some cheek to mention the war during a weekend of festivities. I for one don't really care what the IRA did and I certainly won't have it rubbed in my face while having breakfast.
Do you think the British public would be interested hearing about Bloody Sunday or the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings commemorations on the eve of the Royal Wedding? Of course not, there is a time and a place for such discussions.
The problem here is that the media plays on the Irish guilt complex now that the church has lost its place in society people need something to substitute that void with and what better way to do it with IRA atrocities to remind us of all the bad things done in our name!

What Irish guilt complex do you think the media is playing on? The vast majority of Irish people would condemn what those murderers did for years while claiming they were doing it it our names. They were a pathetic bunch of evil bastards and we all should remember their innocent victims because their victims were normal everyday day people just like ourselves.

hmmm

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

It came as a surprise to me that for some reason the producers of 'Spirit FM' thought that Irish people would even care about this considering the fact that this happened a long time ago within a larger context and that this somehow amounted to Irish news.

Says the guy who has a "favourite rebel song"
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83693739

There's a very convenient amnesia amongst nationalists which disappears when they talk about anything the British have done over the past 800 years.

AlekSmart

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

I was having breakfast this morning while listening to the radio the news came on. It came as a surprise to me that one of the headlines had to do with a commemoration that was taking place in England to commemorate an IRA bombing which took place over 20 years ago.

It came as a surprise to me that for some reason the producers of 'Spirit FM' thought that Irish people would even care about this considering the fact that this happened a long time ago within a larger context and that this somehow amounted to Irish news.

So I came to the conclusion that this headline is part of a much wider campaign of national humiliation that we ought to be reminded and ashamed of an IRA bombing which took place in England 20 years ago.

It’s no surprise to me that the headline coincided with the ST. Patricks weekend and perhaps the headline is a suggestion to Irish people that we should disassociate ourselves from feelings of national pride which has the potential to rise during the month of Easter and St. Patricks festivities.

Am I the only the one who sees that the media reminds of random events from the troubles which portray nationalists as the perpetrators of violence?

Your Majesty had the option of tuning to another channel,or of switching the wretched Radio off altogether and enjoying one's breakfast without being twice surprised.

I am a citizen of this Irish Republic.

I do not see any "Wider campaign of National Humiliation" being waged by the decision of a private Radio Station to do a piece on the murder of children carried out by an organization purporting to be the legitimate armed force of My country.

This claim,of itself,should represent a far greater humiliation for an Irish Citizen than a mere Radio Programme.

In the case of Warrington,this far from random violence WAS perpetrated by an Irish Republican Army,claiming to act in my name.

http://www.thisisannouncements.co.uk/5848869

"On the Sunday, we went to see Tim. What greeted us was terrifying – his head was completely bandaged, his upper body was pock-marked with shrapnel and tubes were coming from his mouth. Also, there was a distinctive smell, probably of Semtex. We tried to communicate with him, even though we knew that he could not communicate with us…but you don’t think rationally.

That,your majesty,humiliates me,not as an Irish Citizen,but as a human being.

However I would not see you as the "only one" who chooses to see things (as you put it) this way,but rather as a member of a rapidly dwindling number of persons whose perceptions have not developed.

I would prefer to focus on the positive reality that,thanks to the vast majority of Irish people supporting the legitimate Irish State, your children have a far better chance today of not dying as Tim Parry or Jonathan Ball did to further someone else's desire to inflict pain and suffering.

Im afraid,Emperors Innuendo,that where you can only see humilitation and issues around "National Pride",I tend to see far more solid positive forward thinking and hopeful developments such as....

http://www.foundation4peace.org/

On balance,I think the memories of these two murdered children,and the way in which their families managed to push through the sheer dreadfulness of the crimes perpetrated on them,far outstrips any supposed humiliation that you think I should feel.

the emperors innuendo

AlekSmart wrote: »

Your Majesty had the option of tuning to another channel,or of switching the wretched Radio off altogether and enjoying one's breakfast without being twice surprised.

I am a citizen of this Irish Republic.

I do not see any "Wider campaign of National Humiliation" being waged by the decision of a private Radio Station to do a piece on the murder of children carried out by an organization purporting to be the legitimate armed force of My country.

This claim,of itself,should represent a far greater humiliation for an Irish Citizen than a mere Radio Programme.

In the case of Warrington,this far from random violence WAS perpetrated by an Irish Republican Army,claiming to act in my name.

http://www.thisisannouncements.co.uk/5848869



That,your majesty,humiliates me,not as an Irish Citizen,but as a human being.

However I would not see you as the "only one" who chooses to see things (as you put it) this way,but rather as a member of a rapidly dwindling number of persons whose perceptions have not developed.

I would prefer to focus on the positive reality that,thanks to the vast majority of Irish people supporting the legitimate Irish State, your children have a far better chance today of not dying as Tim Parry or Jonathan Ball did to further someone else's desire to inflict pain and suffering.

Im afraid,Emperors Innuendo,that where you can only see humilitation and issues around "National Pride",I tend to see far more solid positive forward thinking and hopeful developments such as....

http://www.foundation4peace.org/

On balance,I think the memories of these two murdered children,and the way in which their families managed to push through the sheer dreadfulness of the crimes perpetrated on them,far outstrips any supposed humiliation that you think I should feel.

The only reason you’re humiliated is because the Brits engineered a successful media campaign to exploit the casualties. There have beencountless child casualties during the troubles, and the Brits are responsible for the majority of them, something you might not no.

I was only 7 when these bombings took place but when I read about them I see them as part of a broader political context. Of course the loss of young life is unfortunate and I don’t believe the intent of the bombers was that since there was a telephone warning.But like another poster pointed out, 5 civilians were murdered that very same month in Derry and yet not a mention of it in the media today.

One poster said that because it was Irish people killing Irish in this instance that it didn’t merit the media’s attention but the Warrington bombing did. Why? Are the deaths of English citizens more important than that of Irish ones? You must remember that the British Government is a representative of the English people, and the British Government were instrumental in colluding and funding terror groups such as the UDA who were responsible for the murder of 5 Irish civilians that very same month.

hmmm

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

The only reason you’re humiliated is because the Brits engineered a successful media campaign to exploit the casualties. There have beencountless child casualties during the troubles, and the Brits are responsible for the majority of them, something you might not no.

Attempting to both justify the murder of children, and trying to spin this as the British "exploiting the casualties", wow that takes some neck.

When the IRA put bombs in litter bins on shopping streets, who did they think they were targeting?

I don't feel ashamed or humiliated by the actions of the provisionals because I never supported them or their political hanger-ons. You on the other hand.....

Play To Kill

Its incredible that after all the damage that the IRA did to our country that someone as young as the OP has no idea what the vast majority of Irish people thought back then and what the majority think today. I was a lot older than 7 back then and the only humiliation I ever felt was when the IRA tried to claim they perpetrated their evil acts in our names, maybe not so much humiliation but definately embarrassment and outrage at what they did. The British never humiliated us, in fairness the vast majority of British people knew the Irish people were not responsible for what a tiny minority of evil cnuts did.

sparkling sea

Play To Kill wrote: »

Its incredible that after all the damage that the IRA did to our country that someone as young as the OP has no idea what the vast majority of Irish people thought back then and what the majority think today. I was a lot older than 7 back then and the only humiliation I ever felt was when the IRA tried to claim they perpetrated their evil acts in our names, maybe not so much humiliation but definately embarrassment and outrage at what they did. The British never humiliated us, in fairness the vast majority of British people knew the Irish people were not responsible for what a tiny minority of evil cnuts did.

Agree 100%

Chuck Stone

Play To Kill wrote: »

The British never humiliated us

Tell that to the people who were dragged out of their beds in the middle of the night at gun point and held without trial.

Armed soldiers launched dawn raids throughout Northern Ireland, sparking four days of rioting that killed 20 civilians, two Provisional IRA members and two British soldiers. About 7,000 people fled their homes, of which roughly 2,500 fled south of the border. No loyalist paramilitaries were included in the sweep and many of those who were arrested had no links with republican paramilitaries, which caused much anger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius

Play To Kill

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Tell that to the people who were dragged out of their beds in the middle of the night at gun point and held without trial.

I'm from the Republic of Ireland, that happened in a part of the UK and they are British citizens, If they want to be Irish they can move down here.

Chuck Stone

Play To Kill wrote: »

I'm from the Republic of Ireland, that happened in a part of the UK and they are British citizens, If they want to be Irish they can move down here.

Such a sophisticated analysis.

The people subjected to humiliation by the British in the north considered themselves Irish.

It wasn't their fault that the border was drawn in a to create a privileged majority and a disenfranchised minority.

A Dub in Glasgo

Play To Kill wrote: »

I'm from the Republic of Ireland, that happened in a part of the UK and they are British citizens, If they want to be Irish they can move down here.

That is the definition of deluded

padma

I usually never respond to these threads, as mostly, people who speak here speak from negative emotions which are understandable. However although I do not fully agree with the OP's attitude toward the warrington bombing he has a very valid point. That is the media blackout of all things negative toward the former RUC, British Army, SAS, UDR, UVF, UFF, UDA, and other splinter groups in the North beyond the IRA, PIRA and INLA.

The media is currently writing the history of the troubles as and how it feels. And in it's current mode it has been to continuously show the IRA as a lunatic, fringe terrorist group whose atrocities seems to have been the only atrocities that have happened in Ireland.

This is thoroughly incorrect. There were two sides to the story of Northern Ireland, both as equally as harrowing as the other.

Bombs which targeted civilians or ended up hurting civilians which were planted by the IRA and also the assassinations carried out by the IRA of who they felt were legitimate targets.

Then the deaths caused by all the other terrorist groups in the North. A very high percentage of these deaths caused by loyalists were random killing of civilians, mainly pick a catholic and kill death squads carried out by the likes of the Shankill butchers or drive by's in to Catholic neighborhoods by the UFF or whatever.

Included in this is the picture of the B Specials and the RUC's actions of killings and most notably British Army killings where the people killed were civilians and mainly Catholic.

The truth mainly of the conflict is that of the British Army's actions in the North were anti Catholic/Nationalist. And we even know now about the collusion between the British Army and certain key figures IN loyalist brigades.

The idea of national humiliation seems to be a new occurrence where people who weren't brought up in the North totally condemn the IRA and seem to put blame on the IRA for all the killings that have happened in the conflict. They are in my opinion right to condemn the killing, yet they should educate themselves about the killings committed by Loyalist groups and the RUC and the British Army. There is a reason why the RUC has been renamed and the new power sharing executive of Northern Ireland is doing it's best to provide a proper and fair police service to the North of Ireland.

Everyone interested in this thread should have a read of the Children who lost their lives during the troubles. It is a harrowing read yet it gives the names, ages and perpetrator of the killing, and the circumstances behind their deaths. http://www.childrenofireland.us/childrenkilled.htm

Play To Kill

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Such a sophisticated analysis.

The people subjected to humiliation by the British in the north considered themselves Irish.

It wasn't their fault that the border was drawn in a to create a privileged majority and a disenfranchised minority.

They might have considered themselves Irish but did the majority of the people in the Republic consider them Irish? Do the majority consider them Irish today? Were the people in the republic embarrassed and feel shame because of the British governments actions or because of the actions of a tiny minority?

Play To Kill

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

That is the definition of deluded

So enlighten me, how is it deluded to think Northern Ireland is a different country?

Chuck Stone

Play To Kill wrote: »

They might have considered themselves Irish but did the majority of the people in the Republic consider them Irish? Do the majority consider them Irish today? Were the people in the republic embarrassed and feel shame because of the British governments actions or because of the actions of a tiny minority?

Haven't a clue what you're trying to say here tbh.

Play To Kill

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Haven't a clue what you're trying to say here tbh.

I'm not surprised thb.

Chuck Stone

Play To Kill wrote: »

I'm not surprised thb.

I assure you my reading comprehension is fine.

padma

Play To Kill wrote: »

I'm not surprised thb.

You aren't making much sense here. I was born in the Republic of Ireland. My mother was from Belfast and father from the Republic. Yes, she was one of those who had to leave because of the pogroms. Crossed the border as an Irish citizen as, being born in Northern Ireland you have a right to two passports, Irish and British. So your lack of education and seemingly bigotry towards people from the North of IRELAND through your nonsensical stance on the citizenship of people from the North is quite frankly embarrassing.

Maybe this is national humiliation?

Play To Kill

padma wrote: »

You aren't making much sense here. I was born in the Republic of Ireland. My mother was from Belfast and father from the Republic. Yes, she was one of those who had to leave because of the pogroms. Crossed the border as an Irish citizen as, being born in Northern Ireland you have a right to two passports, Irish and British. So your lack of education and seemingly bigotry towards people from the North of IRELAND through your nonsensical stance on the citizenship of people from the North is quite frankly embarrassing.

Maybe this is national humiliation?

Can you point out where I have been a bigot towards people from Northern Ireland? Maybe I'm wrong here but I was pretty sure it was another country with it's own government, currency etc. Just because it's the North of IRELAND doesn't make it the same country as the Republic of Ireland. We Share a border like many countries around the world share borders.

padma

Play To Kill wrote: »

I'm from the Republic of Ireland, that happened in a part of the UK and they are British citizens, If they want to be Irish they can move down here.

They are Irish, by saying they are British, you are basically using your own bigotry. As I pointed out to you. People in Northern IRELAND can claim Irish citizenship. What part of that don't you understand? Either nationalist, unionist, loyalist or whatever. If you are born in the North of Ireland you are entitled to both citizenships. British or Irish. So you tell me that if they want to be Irish they have to move down here. Come off it man!!

Chuck Stone

Play To Kill wrote: »

They might have considered themselves Irish but did the majority of the people in the Republic consider them Irish?

1972: British embassy in Dublin destroyed

The British embassy in Dublin has been destroyed by a furious crowd of demonstrators protesting over the shooting dead of 13 people in Londonderry on Sunday.

The crowd was estimated at between 20,000 and 30,000 strong. It had been besieging the embassy building, in Merrion Square near the parliament building, for almost three days.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/2/newsid_2758000/2758163.stm

Somehow I don't think that the people who burned down the the British Embassy did it because the British Army murdered 13 British people on the streets of Derry in 1972.

Derry is where my family (+extended) come from and I assure you we/they very much consider themselves Irish through and through. Shockingly as it must sound to you, you might want to sit down for this one, some Protestants and Unionists consider themselves Irish too! :eek:

djpbarry

padma wrote: »

The idea of national humiliation seems to be a new occurrence where people who weren't brought up in the North totally condemn the IRA and seem to put blame on the IRA for all the killings that have happened in the conflict. They are in my opinion right to condemn the killing, yet they should educate themselves about the killings committed by Loyalist groups and the RUC and the British Army.

Why are you assuming people to be ignorant of such things?

padma

djpbarry wrote: »

Why are you assuming people to be ignorant of such things?

Because of the content of this thread, which is down to people genuinely thinking the IRA were the cause of all the woes of the North. Not all people of course are ignorant, yet let's face it the media don't exactly highlight any commemorations which are held in West Belfast for the senseless killings carried out by British forces on the people of West Belfast to name but a few.

Play To Kill

That's right, a tiny minority of people burned down the Embassy, the majority of Irish didn't burn it down. It was also a tiny minority of evil cnuts who murdered innocent people while claiming to do it in the names of the people of Ireland. The British didn't humiliate us as a nation as the OP claims, the IRA did the damage and made us feel shame.

Now you might want to sit down yourself for this one, both my parents were born in Ireland before the formation of the free state and that means I also have dual citizenship, I lived the first 43 years of my life in Ireland and now live in the UK without feeling any humiliation or negative feelings from the British. There are however a minority of people who humiliate themselves.

Fratton Fred

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Tell that to the people who were dragged out of their beds in the middle of the night at gun point and held without trial.

Do enemy prisoners require a trial during a war, or are you implying it wasn't in fact a war, more like criminal activity.

padma

Play To Kill wrote: »

That's right, a tiny minority of people burned down the Embassy, the majority of Irish didn't burn it down. It was also a tiny minority of evil cnuts who murdered innocent people while claiming to do it in the names of the people of Ireland. The British didn't humiliate us as a nation as the OP claims, the IRA did the damage and made us feel shame.

Now you might want to sit down yourself for this one, both my parents were born in Ireland before the formation of the free state and that means I also have dual citizenship, I lived the first 43 years of my life in Ireland and now live in the UK without feeling any humiliation or negative feelings from the British. There are however a minority of people who humiliate themselves.

You seriously need to take your blindfold off, you have forgot about the tiny minority of evil cnuts (using your own words) who killed Irish civilians including women and children in the name of the British Crown. This is one aspect of the point the OP was talking about and it is something that you are totally blind about because of your hatred towards the IRA.

Why not condemn the whole mess up there? Why not condemn the Army's actions, which David Cameron has apologised for. Why not condemn the Apartheid system in place there. Why not condemn the Police for protecting loyalist mobs to burn down catholic homes.

gallag

Just to remind people that out of the 3000 deaths during the troubles 1500 were by the ira, the British security forces killed 300, there is no comparison on who was the most murderous, a fact the nationalists forget when complaining about the blood thirsty brits. That should clear up the question of why there are more remembrance days for victims of the ira.

Chuck Stone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do enemy prisoners

So you're saying that every person picked up were enemy combatants is it?

The lists were so out of date that 104 people had to be released within forty-eight hours. … The army quite often simply picked up the wrong people, a son for a father, the wrong ‘man with a beard living at no. 47’ and so on. But by the time they were released, a number had suffered quite brutal treatment, as had those still detained … Internees were beaten with batons, kicked and forced to run the gauntlet between lines of club-wielding soldiers.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/intern/sum.htm

Brave soldiers, huh?

It was a total balls from the start and was patently sectarian in nature.

What they did not include was a single Loyalist. Although the UVF had begun the killing and bombing, this organisation was left untouched, as were other violent Loyalist satellite organisations such as Tara, the Shankill Defenders Association and the Ulster Protestant Volunteers.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/intern/sum.htm

gallag wrote: »

the British security forces killed 300, there is no comparison on who was the most murderous,

Yet again you ignore security force collusion with loyalist death squads and who was more discriminate.

Loyalists civilian killings ~85%
BA civilian killings ~51%
IRA civilian killings ~35%

daithi1970

Warrington sticks more in the mind because 2 children were killed in the bombing. The victims' relatives should be allowed to remember their loss in any way they want to. To suggest this remembrance is a media-controlled national humiliation is a bit paranoid..

daithi

Play To Kill

padma wrote: »

You seriously need to take your blindfold off, you have forgot about the tiny minority of evil cnuts (using your own words) who killed Irish civilians including women and children in the name of the British Crown. This is one aspect of the point the OP was talking about and it is something that you are totally blind about because of your hatred towards the IRA.

Why not condemn the whole mess up there? Why not condemn the Army's actions, which David Cameron has apologised for. Why not condemn the Apartheid system in place there. Why not condemn the Police for protecting loyalist mobs to burn down catholic homes.

If you follow the thread you will see that I have answered the OP by saying I don't feel humiliated because of a media report about a ceremony to remember murder victims but I do feel embarrassed and outraged that the IRA claimed to murder in mine and every Irish persons name.

The thread isn't about what the police or others murderers who called themselves loyalists did, if it was I would have given my opinion. I have not forgotten that there were others murderers who claimed their actions were in the name of the British crown, they are also evil cnuts who I have no time or respect for and I don't feel humiliated by their actions either. They all, on both sides, murdered men, women and children, they also destroyed thousands of lives fighting over what essentially is six big fields on the northern half of a tiny Island, thankfully they are still only supported by a tiny minority to this day.

padma

gallag wrote: »

Just to remind people that out of the 3000 deaths during the troubles 1500 were by the ira, the British security forces killed 300, there is no comparison on who was the most murderous, a fact the nationalists forget when complaining about the blood thirsty brits. That should clear up the question of why there are more remembrance days for victims of the ira.

So, 1500 killed by the IRA and 300 by the British army and 1200 by the loyalists and RUC is it? Not to sound bad but that is generally half/half as lets face it the British army was there for the crown. There are commemorations nearly every day for victims on both sides.

As I said earlier people do need to pipe down a bit and remember there were two sides in this conflict, the SAS, UDA, UFF, UVF UDR British Army, Paratroopers and RUC and B Specials. The RUC, B specials, SAS, Paratroopers and the British army could have conducted themselves as trained professionals trained to police and normalise the situation. It was of course unfortunate that they didn't but resorted to collusion with one side.

Then the IRA, PIRA AND INLA.

Is it time to reflect as a people? and remember the innocent catholics and nationalists in Northern Ireland as they have gone through the same atrocities too. Who here can remember Rev. Ian Paisley shouting for the extermination of catholics around bonfires burning the tricolour and pictures of the pope on the 12th of July?

Im not a nationalist, but I do not condemn the actions of one group, I condemn the actions of all the groups there. The state of Northern Ireland from the 20's til the civil rights movement was illegal, sectarian, and discriminatory towards catholics.