FF 29%, FG 25%, SF 20%, Lab 9%, Ind 17% - Sindo Millward Brown Opinion Poll

Sierra Oscar

Tomorrows Sunday Independent have commissioned a Millward Brown opinion poll with the following results:

FF 29% +6%
FG 25% +1%
SF 20% -1%
Lab 9% -2%
Ind 16% -4%

Opinion poll shows Labour party support dips below 10%, while Fianna Fáil benefits

Support for the Labour Party has dipped below 10%, according to the latest opinion poll.

Independents and smaller parties have also lost ground, with Fianna Fáil benefitting.

The Millward Brown poll for tomorrow's Sunday Independent also found that just one voter in five is satisfied with the Government's performance.

Will be interesting to see what figures emerge out of the Meath East by-election.

raymon

Very bad result for the country .

Sully

It doesn't say very much about the electorate tbh. There isn't a single party in the Dail that is worth a vote. But to vote back in Fianna Fail who have such a history of screwing the Irish people and are a cause of every single problem that we are facing that this current government is attempting to fix.

But this government went in with such a false agenda, it was bound to cause serious damage.

fullgas

The crazy result is 20% of the population would vote for Sinn Fein!! I'd rather die then see Sinn Fein in power.

raymon

Seems like Ming , Lowry and Wallace have repulsed the independent voter.

Fianna Fails treason machine is fooling some people all over again

My name is URL

Sully wrote: »

It doesn't say very much about the electorate tbh. There isn't a single party in the Dail that is worth a vote. But to vote back in Fianna Fail who have such a history of screwing the Irish people and are a cause of every single problem that we are facing that this current government is attempting to fix.

But this government went in with such a false agenda, it was bound to cause serious damage.

They're not though. These opinion polls may be accurate in measuring sentiment today but there's no way in hell they accurately portray who people would want in power tomorrow.

At least that's the hope I'm holding on to =p

fullgas wrote: »

The crazy result is 20% of the population would vote for Sinn Fein!! I'd rather die then see Sinn Fein in power.

You must live a very fulfilling and self-secure life.

Sierra Oscar

My name is URL wrote: »

They're not though. These opinion polls may be accurate in measuring sentiment today but there's no way in hell they accurately portray who people would want in power tomorrow.

Indeed, it is important to keep in mind that the there is another three years of life in this government - assuming it goes its full term. A lot can happen in three years, and these polls could be completely different down the line.

GRMA

fullgas wrote: »

The crazy result is 20% of the population would vote for Sinn Fein!! I'd rather die then see Sinn Fein in power.

lol!

I'll admit though that I kinda hope the inevitable shock will kill off the Eoghan Harris's of this world


Sinn Féin are not a revolutionary party anymore and are already in power in Ireland - only a matter of time before they are in the south too. Anyone expecting massive changes will be disappointed/relieved because that won't happen - will be a welcome, nicer variation of a fundamentally doomed theme.

gandalf

It is a very depressing day when you see FF get any support after what they did to this country let alone see them at the top of the pile again. People are very stupid if they think putting those nest featherers back into power will solve any of our problems.

Mr.Micro

gandalf wrote: »

It is a very depressing day when you see FF get any support after what they did to this country let alone see them at the top of the pile again. People are very stupid if they think putting those nest featherers back into power will solve any of our problems.

They probably think that FF will reverse the taxes and whatever, lol. Whilst some are trying to get the country back on its feet, others like FF sit back and do nothing and hope to reap the rewards. FF are delighted that the unpopular medicine is being administered by others. The changes are here to stay no matter who gets in the next time. By then people may come to their senses and realize that FF are the root of the problem, not the cure.

nuac

this poll will worry Labour backbenchers.

Their next conference may be interesting - they may vote to leave the coalition, despite the urgings of their present Ministers.

Three more years for this government no longer a certainty

Sierra Oscar

nuac wrote: »

this poll will worry Labour backbenchers.

Their next conference may be interesting - they may vote to leave the coalition, despite the urgings of their present Ministers.

Three more years for this government no longer a certainty

The problem is that a large amount of those backbenchers will lose their seats if they leave government, and they know it. Look at the Greens - they lost all of their seats after trying to leave government on the morale high ground.

Labour are essentially locked in for the moment. The backbenchers are holding out in the hope that economic recovery will arrive over the course of the lifetime of this government, and that this will see a reversal in their downward trend regarding support levels. However many backbenchers must be questioning as to whether real meaningful recovery will come in time. There is no meaningful recovery in sight unfortunately, and growth predictions continue to be revised downwards.

The run up to the local elections could provide the catalyst for a revolt, as sitting councillors will be extremely worried about their prospects of holding their seats. If Labour lose another one or two percent then they will lose over half of their council seats. Is it possible that Labour could dip as low as 5%? If so the party would be destroyed at a local level, and it would prove difficult to rebuild.

Conmaicne Mara

nuac wrote: »

they may vote to leave the coalition, despite the urgings of their present Ministers.

Not if they have any sense. Stay in and do the best they can in the hope things improve. Jumping ship now just means they get slaughtered now and put FF & SF in Govt.

All the same I wouldn't put it past them :rolleyes:

Fiskar

Big problem for FG and Labour is the issue of property tax that will impact in the meath East election.

FGs 5 point "Less Waste, Lower Taxes, More Growth" plan section 8

They have followed through on implementation of this tax without a murmur with the IMF. They were elected with the rheotoric in these 5 point plans. Property tax is sacrosanct (we don't want it and we have had enough other goalpost changers) and Irish people do not want this tax.

next year (if the government get that far) will be water tax, in a country awash with rain we do not want to be taxed on bloody water.

What other aspects of the 5 point plans will they burn before the next election.

Mr.Micro

nuac wrote: »

this poll will worry Labour backbenchers.

Their next conference may be interesting - they may vote to leave the coalition, despite the urgings of their present Ministers.

Three more years for this government no longer a certainty

Labour's best chances are to stick it out with this coalition and hope that the public mood will change towards them as things improve economically. If they jump ship before that it may be wipe out.

I still people will think twice before voting FF no matter what the polls say at this stage. Logic dictates that FF are bad bad bad for the country on its track record and if the economy improves so will peoples unwillingness to ruin it all by voting in a Party that will lead to bankruptcy all over again.

Mongfinder General

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Tomorrows Sunday Independent have commissioned a Millward Brown opinion poll with the following results:

FF 29% +6%
FG 25% +1%
SF 20% -1%
Lab 9% -2%
Ind 16% -4%

Opinion poll shows Labour party support dips below 10%, while Fianna Fáil benefits



Will be interesting to see what figures emerge out of the Meath East by-election.

20 + 29 = the next government.

I can see this turning out like the 77 election with the Provos sharing the landslide this time. They'll promise the sun, moon and stars but the crucial populist ploy will be targeting the votes of the most distressed and vulnerable in this country. The people who have been battered in every budget since 2008. Yes, the people who still pay their mortgages every month.

This is the most disaffected group of people in this country right now. They will turn out in huge numbers to vote. Hopefully they won't be as gullible as when they took out their mortgages.

Good loser

Fiskar wrote: »

Big problem for FG and Labour is the issue of property tax that will impact in the meath East election.

FGs 5 point "Less Waste, Lower Taxes, More Growth" plan section 8

They have followed through on implementation of this tax without a murmur with the IMF. They were elected with the rheotoric in these 5 point plans. Property tax is sacrosanct (we don't want it and we have had enough other goalpost changers) and Irish people do not want this tax.

next year (if the government get that far) will be water tax, in a country awash with rain we do not want to be taxed on bloody water.

What other aspects of the 5 point plans will they burn before the next election.

Having voted for FF in the last election I will not vote for them the next time because of their shameful about turn on the property tax.

thebman

IMO the only reason FF are up in polls is the abortion issue.

firemansam4

This was inevitable in my opinion! the last election was a protest vote against FF. The large grass route support they have always enjoyed in this state will inevitable see them back into power, more than likely in next general election.

I remember seeing a post a while back after the last election about weather FF are finished? and thinking to myself how ridiculous a notion that was. But to be honest even I didn't think they would have gained popularity again as fast as they have.
I think the backlash (rightly or wrongly) that the government are getting in relation to the decisions they are making is probably just speeding up the inevitable process of normal order being resumed - and seeing FF back to where it always has been in this state - and that is regardless of what ever they have done in the past which caused the whole mess we are in now.

raymon

firemansam4 wrote: »

This was inevitable in my opinion! the last election was a protest vote against FF. The large grass route support they have always enjoyed in this state will inevitable see them back into power, more than likely in next general election.

I remember seeing a post a while back after the last election about weather FF are finished? and thinking to myself how ridiculous a notion that was. But to be honest even I didn't think they would have gained popularity again as fast as they have.
I think the backlash (rightly or wrongly) that the government are getting in relation to the decisions they are making is probably just speeding up the inevitable process of normal order being resumed - and seeing FF back to where it always has been in this state - and that is regardless of what ever they have done in the past which caused the whole mess we are in now.

I find your opinion hard to believe that treachery and lies will prevail

Le_Dieux

firemansam4 wrote: »

This was inevitable in my opinion! the last election was a protest vote against FF. The large grass route support they have always enjoyed in this state will inevitable see them back into power, more than likely in next general election.

I remember seeing a post a while back after the last election about weather FF are finished? and thinking to myself how ridiculous a notion that was. But to be honest even I didn't think they would have gained popularity again as fast as they have.
I think the backlash (rightly or wrongly) that the government are getting in relation to the decisions they are making is probably just speeding up the inevitable process of normal order being resumed - and seeing FF back to where it always has been in this state - and that is regardless of what ever they have done in the past which caused the whole mess we are in now.

But the big question ( which neither I, nor IMHO no one else can either answer ) is is this due to Micháel Martin's leadership, the resurgence and right noises from FF or the leadership of EK & EG? Personally, I think Gilmore is a serious liability to any coalition surviving it's term in office. What he did to Róisín Shortall is nothing short of treachery!NOBODY stabs one of their own in the back for the sake of a member of another political party, albeit a party sharing power.

smcgiff

It was always thus - FF make a bollix of it and FG get to make the hard decisions.

The only time FF got it wrong was to win the second last election.

FG/lab were never going to make popular decisions after taking the reins - I think they've done a decent job considering.

And as for pre-election promises - they kind of have to to compete against the likes of FF. And it's not as if we are dealing with a particularly articulate or understanding electorate - look at the current polls for proof of this.

Fertile ground for new political parties....

firemansam4

raymon wrote: »

I find your opinion hard to believe that treachery and lies will prevail

Well its starting to bare true already, I really hope I am wrong and people can pull up my posts and say that I was wrong!

Le_Dieux wrote: »

But the big question ( which neither I, nor IMHO no one else can either answer ) is is this due to Micháel Martin's leadership, the resurgence and right noises from FF or the leadership of EK & EG? Personally, I think Gilmore is a serious liability to any coalition surviving it's term in office. What he did to Róisín Shortall is nothing short of treachery!NOBODY stabs one of their own in the back for the sake of a member of another political party, albeit a party sharing power.

Well i would say both had a part to play. But FF have really done a good job of jumping on any contentious decision the government has made and people are starting to forget who caused the whole mess too start off with.

Dob74

fullgas wrote: »

The crazy result is 20% of the population would vote for Sinn Fein!! I'd rather die then see Sinn Fein in power.

Really?
Why is it because you are a snob?
Are that conservative?


Personally I think people need to move from "dem sinner's are evil"
FF and FG killed each other for years and is now history. Time moved on, same for SF.

nice_guy80

Shows the need for a new party.

There really isn't a decent alternative

nesf

I agree about the need for a new party, what we're seeing are people fleeing from FG and Labour especially and really being stuck as to where to go. Some will go to SF but an awful lot want nothing to do with that party, so where do they have to go? Independents, we get some interesting ones but most tend to be hard left or single issue people and ex Labour/FG people aren't hard left broadly speaking. So they end up going to FF or into the undecided category, which you'll note is over 30% making these poll numbers extremely suspect)

For a brief moment we had in the PDs a third way to the FF vs FG/Lab roundabout but as the major parties all started stealing the PDs clothes in terms of socially liberal policy (look at FF social stances pre and post the early PD era for instance), finally leaving the PDs as an economically right party fighting with FG for votes which was never going to end well for them because FG are just so entrenched around the country like FF (realistically the target if you were going to pick one would be Labour who are the softest in terms of support and arguably SF have gone in and taken a largish share of the traditional Labour vote over the past 20 years).

I'd love to see a new party but unless we have a mass defection from one of the current parties (preferably cross-party) we're not going to see a new centrist party which is what we would need within the next 5-10 years of size most likely.

thebman

I think everyone would like to see a new party but one with credible, realistic parties as opposed to the opposition parties we have.

sparkling sea

I don't get what FF have done to redeem themselves - I fully understand why people are disappointed in FG and Lab though.

nesf

sparkling sea wrote: »

I don't get what FF have done to redeem themselves - I fully understand why people are disappointed in FG and Lab though.

They haven't redeemed themselves, it's that the people going to FF don't like the other options very much either. Remember there are over 30% undecided there, that's a massive number.

Mr.Micro

nesf wrote: »

They haven't redeemed themselves, it's that the people going to FF don't like the other options very much either. Remember there are over 30% undecided there, that's a massive number.

The possible optimistic part of that, is that the 30% may return to support FG and Labour if things improve and reality hits home, as bad as we are FF do not have a clue.

nesf

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The possible optimistic part of that, is that the 30% may return to support FG and Labour if things improve and reality hits home, as bad as we are FF do not have a clue.

Well, honestly, on economic policy whoever we elect have their hands tied right now unless we do something like leave the Eurozone and default, which no one seems to want amongst the larger parties. We have to cut spending and raise taxes. We have a large structural deficit (i.e. not because of giving money to the banks but because we collect less tax than what we spend on services).

Whoever we elect will have to raise taxes on ordinary people and cut services that will affect the badly off. They don't have a choice in the matter. We won't see major public sector reform or social welfare reform because it'd be political suicide. For some reason it's seems to be easier to push in new taxes to broaden the tax base like the property tax and water tax but again I doubt we'll see major domestic rates being brought in by this Government to actually cover the cost of services in the area. It's not so much FG implementing FF policy as it is the State being in a position demanding broad reaching tax raises and spending cuts.


When we're back in a good economic position then people should be extremely wary of a return of the FF from the 90s and 00s lest we end up in the same position as we find ourselves in right now. Or a FG/Lab coalition pursuing a similar strategy of increasing spending whilst whittling away at the tax base.

PopePalpatine

thebman wrote: »

IMO the only reason FF are up in polls is the abortion issue.

This RedC poll from January states that, give or take ~3%, 64% of Irish people favour legislation for X, including the risk of suicide, with a further 26% supporting legislating for abortion but not when the pregnant woman threatens suicide.

TBH, many of FG's votes from the '11 GE were just "borrowed" from those who, in an election where the economy isn't screwed, would have voted for FF anyway.

rufty

treach·er·y (trch-r)
n. pl. treach·er·ies
1. Willful betrayal of fidelity, confidence, or trust; perfidy.
2. The act or an instance of such betrayal.

At best the last Government took a gamble and lost. At worst it was awful incompetence. Shouting treachery though is either complete hyperbole or a lack of understanding of the English language.

What people are disgusted with is that this Government promised so much before the election despite not having to. Fianna Fáil were downtrodden and not offering much however FG and Labour went out all guns blazing. FG spotted overall majority. Labour then countered by promising the Earth, Moon and Stars to stop that happening. Each of these promises have been broken and that's why they're languishing on 10%. I still maintain that the "protest vote" in these polls is going overwhelmingly to SF. I could be wrong and do think they'll increase their support next time out however.

FF's up turn is from the fact that party die-hards are no longer ashamed to say they are just that. Remember that a year ago before polls started going is this trend, the FF Ard Fheis was by far the best attended of all the big 4 parties (and it being the only one with restricted voting rights to 3 delegates a cumann). As well as this there are a number of returning voters that were "lent" to FG/Labour from the more right/left wing branches of that party respectively. To be fair, constructive opposition is getting good traction on the doors. Having a record number of opposition (FF) bills introduced per capita (given the size of the opposition) is helping the cause. I would imagine though that outside of traditional support bases and core voter/supporters that there hasn't been any great recovery.

However, ultimately polls are just that, a snap shot in time. All will change before any election. It's all about how much it changes and who benefits from that change that makes the story.

Disclaimer: For reasons of honesty in the debate I should point out I am an FF member but have tried to give as impartial analysis as I can.

raymon

rufty wrote: »

treach·er·y (trch-r)
n. pl. treach·er·ies
1. Willful betrayal of fidelity, confidence, or trust; perfidy.
2. The act or an instance of such betrayal.

At best the last Government took a gamble and lost. At worst it was awful incompetence. Shouting treachery though is either complete hyperbole or a lack of understanding of the English language.

What people are disgusted with is that this Government promised so much before the election despite not having to. Fianna Fáil were downtrodden and not offering much however FG and Labour went out all guns blazing. FG spotted overall majority. Labour then countered by promising the Earth, Moon and Stars to stop that happening. Each of these promises have been broken and that's why they're languishing on 10%. I still maintain that the "protest vote" in these polls is going overwhelmingly to SF. I could be wrong and do think they'll increase their support next time out however.

FF's up turn is from the fact that party die-hards are no longer ashamed to say they are just that. Remember that a year ago before polls started going is this trend, the FF Ard Fheis was by far the best attended of all the big 4 parties (and it being the only one with restricted voting rights to 3 delegates a cumann). As well as this there are a number of returning voters that were "lent" to FG/Labour from the more right/left wing branches of that party respectively. To be fair, constructive opposition is getting good traction on the doors. Having a record number of opposition (FF) bills introduced per capita (given the size of the opposition) is helping the cause. I would imagine though that outside of traditional support bases and core voter/supporters that there hasn't been any great recovery.

However, ultimately polls are just that, a snap shot in time. All will change before any election. It's all about how much it changes and who benefits from that change that makes the story.

Disclaimer: For reasons of honesty in the debate I should point out I am an FF member but have tried to give as impartial analysis as I can.

treach·ery noun \-rē\

plural treach·er·ies

Definition of TREACHERY

: violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence : TREASON

: an act of perfidy or treason

Hello Rufty , you might want to check your dictionary again .

I have included a definition of treachery above.

And yes I completely and sincerely believe that Fianna Fail's acts were acts of treachery.

rufty

raymon wrote: »

treach·ery noun \-rē\

plural treach·er·ies

Definition of TREACHERY

: violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence : TREASON

: an act of perfidy or treason

Hello Rufty , you might want to check your dictionary again .

I have included a definition of treachery above.

And yes I completely and sincerely believe that Fianna Fail's acts were acts of treachery.

FFS! I can see you're a rational individual anyway!

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sarcasm

So you're saying that the last Government conspired to the Troika over the course of 14 years to over-spend and under tax so that the Bailout would happen? That's serious tin-foil hat nonsense.

raymon

rufty wrote: »

FFS! I can see you're a rational individual anyway!

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sarcasm

So you're saying that the last Government conspired to the Troika over the course of 14 years to over-spend and under tax so that the Bailout would happen? That's serious tin-foil hat nonsense.

No nothing like that, there was no conspiracy. That would be a ridiculous claim.

It was the traditional FF values of corruption, greed, lies, misrepresentation, incompetence and arrogance that led to the ultimate treachery. Handing over our soverignty was just the last in a long line of dirty deeds.

rufty

raymon wrote: »

No nothing like that, there was no conspiracy. That would be a ridiculous claim.

It was the traditional FF values of corruption, greed, lies, misrepresentation, incompetence and arrogance that led to the ultimate treachery. Handing over our soverignty was just the last in a long line of dirty deeds.

* Bangs head off table *

So you say it's incompetence.....then treachery. You do realize that, by the laws of this land, you CANNOT be found guilt of treachery by incompetence?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0010/index.html

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/0111/b0111d.pdf

Please point out in the relative legislation (linked above) the crime that you have accused people of having made or otherwise please withdraw you (frankly stupid) allegation.

raymon

rufty wrote: »

* Bangs head off table *

So you say it's incompetence.....then treachery. You do realize that, by the laws of this land, you CANNOT be found guilt of treachery by incompetence?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0010/index.html

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/0111/b0111d.pdf

Please point out in the relative legislation (linked above) the crime that you have accused people of having made or otherwise please withdraw you (frankly stupid) allegation.

Part 2 Article 39 states that "Economic treason shall consist of the actions that result in reputational damage for the country , an unacceptable economic cost, or a loss of economic soverignty for the State."


Sounds about right to me.

rufty

raymon wrote: »

Part 2 Article 39 states that "Economic treason shall consist of the actions that result in reputational damage for the country , an unacceptable economic cost, or a loss of economic soverignty for the State."


Sounds about right to me.

Yes now read the rest of the Bill. Any and all actions must be intentional, in full knowledge of the repercussions and acting with impunity against the state. Well done!

rufty

By the way, look at the date on the Bill: 2011. Even if it were deliberate, you can't legislate in retrospect. The first link is the here and now when talking in terms of the bailout of 2010.

golfball37

If the bank bailout didn't include Anglo and nationwide you could forgive FF eventually.


There's no doubt however they looked after their own first and the country they were meant to be serving 2nd.

For me they are 100% Economic traitors and need to disband the brand.

For example Thos Byrne in Meath East is the only politician I've heard come up with a decent idea on how to retrospectively hit these offensively high public office pensions. While he's attached to the toxic brand of FF though he'll never get my vote. When he mentions Lehman brothers and leaves out the Galway tent he completely dilutes any good idea in a lot of peoples minds.

raymon

rufty wrote: »

By the way, look at the date on the Bill: 2011. Even if it were deliberate, you can't legislate in retrospect. The first link is the here and now when talking in terms of the bailout of 2010.

It is comments like this that remind me of why I will never , ever vote FF.

Thanks for the reminder

Silentcorner

rufty wrote: »

* Bangs head off table *

So you say it's incompetence.....then treachery. You do realize that, by the laws of this land, you CANNOT be found guilt of treachery by incompetence?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0010/index.html

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/0111/b0111d.pdf

Please point out in the relative legislation (linked above) the crime that you have accused people of having made or otherwise please withdraw you (frankly stupid) allegation.

I'd say your not banging it hard enough

This reminds me of an argument I once had with someone I respect, we were arguing whether Bertie Ahern (and by extension FF) were corrupt or incompetent...neither of us won we both made some excellent points

In the interest of full disclosure I am an ex member of FF...it is not something I am proud of, I intend to right that wrong.

nuac

Coming up to an during the 2011 GE it was clear to anyone that FF would lose.

the only uncertainty was whether FG would get an overall majority, or form a coalition with Labour.

FG and Labour made too many promises. they have been unable to keep many of these.

Hence FG and Labour losing support. imho most of FG loss going to FF, some of Labours to FF, some to SF

jonsnow

The reason that FF does so well so consistently is that it is the party which recklessly looks after the interests of the insider classes in Ireland which make up the most influential voting blocs (the public sector, the professions, the wealthy crony capitalists) to the detriment of the weak fragmented majority(everybody else).All of these irish insiders have a standard of living that is undeservedly high compared to the outsider irish majority and indeed now even to comparable insiders in other western countries.

This has been the default setting since FF first got its hands on the levers of power.The price is paid by everyone else who suffers through the economic disasters that periodically occur when an economy is run for a parasitic insider class to the detriment of everyone else.This insider class support FF because FF will always look after them to the detriment of everyone else.The only reason they lost them in 2011 is because FF had pissed them off by making them accept a few minuscule reforms as per the IMF bailout. Now that FG/Lab have set about making more cuts and maybe even some genuine reforms they are saying "this lot are even worse than FF.When FF were in they would never have cut us by this much or make us work this hard (and they are right FF wouldn't make those kind of necessary hard calls)".

From an outsiders perspective it is obscene that these people would vote consistently for a party that keeps bankrupting the country. But from the insider self interested perspective it actually makes perfect sense. FF will pay you more and give you more perks than than you deserve in good times and protect your inflated salary and perks in bad.Why wouldn't you vote for them.

nesf

jonsnow wrote: »

The reason that FF does so well so consistently is that it is the party which recklessly looks after the interests of the insider classes in Ireland which make up the most influential voting blocs (the public sector, the professions, the wealthy crony capitalists) to the detriment of the weak fragmented majority(everybody else).

I must have been hallucinating whilst FF raised and broadened Social Welfare, raised the level at which you start to pay tax, lowered taxes for pretty much everyone year on year and expanded public services used by everyone but especially those you don't mention as being the "insider classes."

FF do well because when in power and with money they go after everyone's vote, more spending to please the left leaning, lowering taxes to please the right leaning etc. Someone on here once described them as clientist rather than left or right, FF will do whatever is most popular rather than hold to any particular ideology in politics to a far greater degree than the other main parties.

FF recklessly went after almost everyone's vote rather than specifically targeting just a couple of groups needed for victory. If you worked your tax went down (or the minimum wage went up), if you didn't work and were on some kind of welfare payment you got a bit more money after most Budgets from them. FF was definitely weak to the unions, just like FG/Lab are and yes you have a point about some sectors of the economy getting special treatment but it's dangerous to start thinking that FF only targeted these sectors, their policies were much broader and the shrinking of the tax base combined with the inflation of welfare payments is a lot of why we have such a large deficit right now. If they'd restricted themselves to just raising public sector wages higher than the rate of inflation we'd have a much smaller problem on our hands.

jonsnow

It wasnt an exhaustive list but those insider blocs are the FF hardcore vote by and large for generations (small farmers were there too to a certain extent but nthey have been more or less jettisoned).

nesf

jonsnow wrote: »

It wasnt an exhaustive list but those insider blocs are the FF hardcore vote by and large for generations (small farmers were there too to a certain extent but nthey have been more or less jettisoned).

Small farmers were more of a historical divide between them and Fine Gael but that was quite some time ago. I don't think it's as black and white as Public Sector + Professionals + whatever crony capitalists means in a generational sense = the core FF vote. There was, until recently anyway, a lot of voting along family lines where the vote was chosen a few generations back, so in a rural area it could have been a small vs large farmer split fifty years ago but their descendants now voting the way the family votes could be spread across many professions/classes.