Michael Lowry (Democracy)

FixdePitchmark

With democracy do you have to accept the choice of the people of Tipperary North? It is obviously hard for somebody outside of Tipperary to understand local politics and the choice of the people.

In fairness to Mattie McGrath - whilst he put himself forward as a local man, he has performed very well on national issues , helping people all over the county.

Anyway, this is very political so maybe should be in politics, but a few other threads about the mistakes of the Celtic Tiger and the errors we made. Do Irish people have a burden of responsibilty for the mess we are in?

I feel people outside of the normal political threads and forums are more representative of general opinion (they are a bit mental on there) - Hence After Hours

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Best place for it OP.

DrumSteve

Every county has their gombeen.

bleg

Mattie McGrath is a self serving incompetent public "servant."

mikemac1

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

With democracy do you have to accept the choice of the people of Tipperary North?

Yes

What saints did you elect for your area?

FixdePitchmark

bleg wrote: »

Mattie McGrath is a self serving incompetent public "servant."

He was at an overnight protest there , when the lads were in the bar - went up in my books big time.

SEPT 23 1989

Its a long way to Tipperary

Dyr

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

It is obviously hard for somebody outside of Tipperary to understand local politics and the choice of the people.

Not really, they're gob****es.

the emperors innuendo

judging by how people voted in north tipp in the last election lowrys position should be secure considering the more controversy he generates the more popular he becomes. he should be in for a landslide victory come next election

FixdePitchmark

mikemac1 wrote: »

Yes

What saints did you elect for your area?

Obviously nobody is perfect - but there was nobody elected like Lowry.

Bertie and Haughey were local enough - so good point. But, times have changed big time.

FixdePitchmark

Bambi wrote: »

Not really, they're gob****es.

They are all Irish - they must be like us in some way ?

FixdePitchmark

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

judging by how people voted in north tipp in the last election lowrys position should be secure considering the more controversy he generates the more popular he becomes. he should be in for a landslide victory come next election

In a way that is why I put up the thread. I would like it to become a national issue.

Let the people change the outcome - Overreaching

Obvioulsy thread careful my friends.

the emperors innuendo

its politicians like lowry who are the problem in this country. hes part of an old generation of politician, the crooked kind that are held bent on destroying this country. if i was in charge he would be the first against the wall but i would settle for a 15 year jail sentence for him to be made an example of

mikemac1

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

It is obviously hard for somebody outside of Tipperary Dublin to understand local politics and the choice of the people.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Bertie and Haughey were local

See what I did there?

National issue is right

FixdePitchmark

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

its politicians like lowry who are the problem in this country. hes part of an old generation of politician, the crooked kind that are held bent on destroying this country. if i was in charge he would be the first against the wall but i would settle for a 15 year jail sentence for him to be made an example of

But we vote in the politicians - is it a wider social issue. Beat the system.

A bit like McSavage there - we can blame the English in some way.

FixdePitchmark

mikemac1 wrote: »

See what I did there?

National issue is right

big changes in Dublin - look at FF in last National. Things change fast in a city maybe. But 1 seat - only 1 (I think).

Amazing drop for FF.

Dwork

soo, absolutely no chance of anyone slandering lowry within this thread anyway..:D

the emperors innuendo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But we vote in the politicians - is it a wider social issue. Beat the system.

A bit like McSavage there - we can blame the English in some way.

thats the problem with democracy. boards.ie is a good example. there are many intelligent views here on how we should run the country but at the end of the day its the electorate who decide and the electorate have a proven track record of electing incompetent people. what we need is a man who will rule with an iron fist. sometimes a dictatorship is necessary to get a country back on its feet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1363561230

political corruption shouldn't be tolerated in ireland. penalties similar to treason should be dished out to those who abuse their positions

FixdePitchmark

Dwork wrote: »

soo, absolutely no chance of anyone slandering lowry within this thread anyway..:D

BTW - would not want anyone to get in trouble - But there is plenty on public record - but best avoided.

This is more about Irish People - what they are thinking when voting.

Dwork

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

BTW - would not want anyone to get in trouble - But there is plenty on public record - but best avoided.

This is more about Irish People - wtf are they thinking when voting.

fyp.

FixdePitchmark

Dwork wrote: »

fyp.

So - should we blame ourselves.

not clever quote "you get the ..................."

Maybe Politics was the thread anyway - if RTE is not covering this , it is a bad place to go.


MODS help.

Dwork

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

So - should we blame ourselves.

not clever quote "you get the ..................."

Maybe Politics was the thread anyway - if RTE is not covering this , it is a bad place to go.


MODS help.

Ohhh it's no good looking for mammy now, you're in this sonny, like it or not, now man up and start calling people names.:D I'd throw in a "sheeple" or two -top tip.

FixdePitchmark

Maybe, people who Post on Boards and forums are not a very good range of the Irish people.

That is why there seems to be a dissconnect between online discusion and general and local opinion. Sorry that is another days work.

Anyway - I'll leave it now. See what people think.

FixdePitchmark

Dwork wrote: »

Ohhh it's no good looking for mammy now, you're in this sonny, like it or not, now man up and start calling people names.:D I'd throw in a "sheeple" or two -top tip.

That is another issue - people in fear of talking about it. WTF has happened to the Irish Media - fair play TV3 and VB.

It is nearly Italy at this stage.

tommy2bad

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

This is more about Irish People - what they are thinking when voting.

Self interest. N.Tipp isn't all that different from anywhere else, Lowry has a good rep for getting things done in and for his area, whether that rep is justified or not is something the voters decide.
He dose attach his name to anything that might garner votes from bottle banks to white house casinos, and this enhances his profile, believe it or not some vote for a 'name' even if thats all they know about the candidate.
In fairness he is approachable and like a lot of old school politicians will work his ass of for someone who asks.
Anyway I'm not sure anyone would bother voting if they thought the elected would put national interest above their personal request.

bleg

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

judging by how people voted in north tipp in the last election lowrys position should be secure considering the more controversy he generates the more popular he becomes. he should be in for a landslide victory come next election

It depends. TN and TS are being merged into a 5 seater. Nobody safe I reckon. Lowry might do OK in the northern towns but will get nothing in the south.

FixdePitchmark

tommy2bad wrote: »

Self interest. N.Tipp isn't all that different from anywhere else, Lowry has a good rep for getting things done in and for his area, whether that rep is justified or not is something the voters decide.
He dose attach his name to anything that might garner votes from bottle banks to white house casinos, and this enhances his profile, believe it or not some vote for a 'name' even if thats all they know about the candidate.
In fairness he is approachable and like a lot of old school politicians will work his ass of for someone who asks.
Anyway I'm not sure anyone would bother voting if they thought the elected would put national interest above their personal request.

I WOULD.

Hijpo

The people have to vote for someone, the candidates promise the sun moon and stars, if they lie well enough they get a seat and shout and heckle in the Dail until there pensions are secured, realistically none of them have the power to contest anything. Dont forget to factor in the situation that not one party allow there TD's to exercise there true opinions with out the risk of consequences because of the party whip system.

tommy2bad

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I WOULD.

Yeah and so would I but I know a lot of people who wouldn't.
A big problem with democracy is the 'whats in it for me?' factor, we get politicians who know how to play on this desire to get one over on the system, not just here but everywhere a democracy works. When politicians run with the 'whats in it for me?' you get tribal politics, end result African states, American style rhetoric, and Healy-Ray, Michale Lowrys.
Were not the worst or the best at democracy.

dxhound2005

the emperors innuendo wrote: »

thats the problem with democracy. boards.ie is a good example. there are many intelligent views here on how we should run the country but at the end of the day its the electorate who decide and the electorate have a proven track record of electing incompetent people. what we need is a man who will rule with an iron fist. sometimes a dictatorship is necessary to get a country back on its feet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1363561230

political corruption shouldn't be tolerated in ireland. penalties similar to treason should be dished out to those who abuse their positions

Penalties similar to treason? The penalty for treason is life imprisonment with a minimum term of 40 years. How similar to that would you like?

Mick ah

We could do away with all of the gombeen TDs and save a fortune if we were just ruled directly from Berlin. Cut out the middle man so to speak.

dxhound2005

Mick ah wrote: »

We could do away with all of the gombeen TDs and save a fortune if we were just ruled directly from Berlin. Cut out the middle man so to speak.

Have you worked out how much that "fortune" would be? It sounds to me like an idea which would be costly to implement initially, the devil is always in the detail so to speak.

My name is URL

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

In fairness to Mattie McGrath - whilst he put himself forward as a local man, he has performed very well on national issues , helping people all over the county.

And he has just as many vowels in his name as any other, which can hardly be held against him. A great man.

Mick ah

TDs gone. TDs' pensions gone. TDs' staff gone. Costly elections gone. Expenses gone. Dail bar gone. Seanad gone.

Hmm, come on folks, brainstorm with me.

Just have the Germans install an administration. Being efficient there'll be less of them. Plus, if we tell them that they're competing with other powers to run the country they'll keep costs down for fear of being replaced.

dxhound2005

Mick ah wrote: »

TDs gone. TDs' pensions gone. TDs' staff gone. Costly elections gone. Expenses gone. Dail bar gone. Seanad gone.

Hmm, come on folks, brainstorm with me.

Just have the Germans install an administration. Being efficient there'll be less of them. Plus, if we tell them that they're competing with other powers to run the country they'll keep costs down for fear of being replaced.

I think you have it all worked out, I withdraw my previous reservations. I can see absolutely no faults with your idea. Well done.

Pandora2

So, completely cut the Irish people out of our governance........not sure that would get much support but as we are almost incidental to the whole debacle except in the event of an election, post which they promptly forget us again, you might be onto something there!!

BuilderPlumber

Ireland is not a democracy. Just because we don't have the death penalty does not make a country democractic. Ceaucescu seldom if ever used death penalties either - he kept his people down via mostly if not all non-violent means. And Ireland does the same.

The government sells this belief we have to expect less in life, that unemployment is normal, that you have to pay through the roof for common services that are FREE in many other countries, that people pay more tax and get less back. Worse, that we voted AGAINST this in 2011 and it was ignored.

My view is Ireland is run by drug dealers who laundered money in Irish banks and propped up the property boom. Now, the government are in their hands. Watch Love/Hate and you see the fear these can instill in people so the government are then less afraid of the people than the gangsters they got involved with (dating to the Good Friday agreement of 1998 which is around the same time the building boom was launched).

The people need to stand up to this and say no to politicians who bed gangsters and banks who will take money from any scumbag. We need a revolution but we do not want to see it hijacked by organised crime like those in Iran, Russia and the like were. That's what we already have and tried to vote out of office in 2011.

ANY politician who cuts back on the people, reneges on election promises, tries to shift the blame to someone else (all too often, the Troika are handy to blame for Irish dictators who want to impose undemocratic unpopular rules) and keeps a fine salary does not deserve our vote and should instead be imprisoned for corruption, treason, lying, protecting the crime world and manslaughter (for suicides caused by their policies). When you see Lowry top the poll, it is very distressing that they can STILL fool an angry people.

Madam_X

mikemac1 wrote: »

What saints did you elect for your area?

Much as you'd like it to be so, I'm afraid few public representatives are as corrupt as Lowry. Bertie and Haughey yadda yadda - still only one area of Ireland.

seanl77

As a north tipp man, would like to point out one thing about the last election. Lowry got 14,000 votes, so that means there was a total of 34,000 people that didnt vote for him!! We are not all fooled by him down here............

keano_afc

seanl77 wrote: »

As a north tipp man, would like to point out one thing about the last election. Lowry got 14,000 votes, so that means there was a total of 34,000 people that didnt vote for him!! We are not all fooled by him down here............

This post cheers me up a bit. I would love someone to have the balls to launch a motion in the Dail for his expulsion - one that would actually be adhered too. Say what you want about the UK, but if someone as dispicably hideous as Lowry was in parliament they'd have been hounded out by now. His mere presence in Leinster House is a throwback to the brown envelope days.

Chips Lovell

keano_afc wrote: »

I would love someone to have the balls to launch a motion in the Dail for his expulsion - one that would actually be adhered too. Say what you want about the UK, but if someone as dispicably hideous as Lowry was in parliament they'd have been hounded out by now. His mere presence in Leinster House is a throwback to the brown envelope days.

The Oireachtas has no power to expel members. You'd need to change the constitution in order to be able to make this happen.

The most they can do is pass of motion of censure, which is essentially a slap on the wrist.

Hijpo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The Oireachtas has no power to expel members. You'd need to change the constitution in order to be able to make this happen.

The most they can do is pass of motion of censure, which is essentially a slap on the wrist.

More of the same from the broken system, you have to ask, is it really broken or secure?

Dempsey

keano_afc wrote: »

This post cheers me up a bit. I would love someone to have the balls to launch a motion in the Dail for his expulsion - one that would actually be adhered too. Say what you want about the UK, but if someone as dispicably hideous as Lowry was in parliament they'd have been hounded out by now. His mere presence in Leinster House is a throwback to the brown envelope days.

True, they all use paypal now

Chips Lovell

Hijpo wrote: »

More of the same from the broken system, you have to ask, is it really broken or secure?

As it happens, there would be strong arguments against changing the constitution in this respect. There would be some concern about it being abused. And a lot may feel that the only people who should be allowed send a TD packing are the electorate.

Pawwed Rig

Democracy has never worked in Ireland. We seldom vote for the best person for the job preferring to vote for the likeable cute hoor.
Lowry is a case in point. The tribunals were damning of him but he still gets huge amounts of first preference votes. I think he is seen as 'sticking it to those lads in Dublin' similar to Healy Ray, Cooper Flynn, Mick Wallace et al.

So yeah we get the government we deserve. Everyone knew that FF were mis-manageing the economy but as long as the money kept rolling in noone cared. I don't think I would agree with a dictator as a previous poster mentioned but I would agree with corruption being made a capital offence with guaranteed prison time for even low level corruption (such as sorting out planning permission or bumping names on lists).

kevthegaff

Mick ah wrote: »

We could do away with all of the gombeen TDs and save a fortune if we were just ruled directly from Berlin. Cut out the middle man so to speak.

german politicians are quite corrupt speaking to a friend in the UN

FixdePitchmark

seanl77 wrote: »

As a north tipp man, would like to point out one thing about the last election. Lowry got 14,000 votes, so that means there was a total of 34,000 people that didnt vote for him!! We are not all fooled by him down here............

14000, is a very large vote for an independent.

sfwcork

Mattie mcgraths comments on drink driving last yr showed him for what exactly he is

A clueless backward fool who only got in from fixing the potholes

cson

Proportional Representation Democracy and the split up of the electoral regions are the problems at play here imo.

You don't fix the local potholes in a village of 3k people and instead focus on building a motorway that benefits a region of maybe ten times that many and quite simply you don't get in next time. It's a vicious circle that puts local issues in the way of national issues and the greater good of the Irish community as a whole.

Transportation is a brilliant example of this at work; look how much money was pissed away on the likes of Galway Airport in subsidies etc and when push came to shove the local community just ignored it. Money that would have been far better spent ensuring the full length of the Limerick to Galway motorway was completed which would have put people in around Galway Airport catchment area between 45m - 1.5hrs of a purpose built International Airport with direct links to Boston for example which would be attractive to the folks in Boston Scientific or is a preclearance flight away from a short hop domestic to Minneapolis which I'm sure the Medtronic people wouldn't mind having as an option. Door to door from Galway, Ireland to Fridley MN in something like 12hrs or less.

But sure the greater good can go **** itself if we can skim a bit off the top for ourselves in expenses and pensions because I took care of the road outside Bridie's house.

Sponge Bob

cson wrote: »

Transportation is a brilliant example of this at work; look how much money was pissed away on the likes of Galway Airport in subsidies etc and when push came to shove the local community just ignored it. Money that would have been far better spent ensuring the full length of the Limerick to Galway motorway was completed which would have put people in around Galway Airport catchment area between 45m - 1.5hrs of a purpose built International Airport with direct links to Boston for example which would be attractive to the folks in Boston Scientific or is a preclearance flight away from a short hop domestic to Minneapolis which I'm sure the Medtronic people wouldn't mind having as an option. Door to door from Galway, Ireland to Fridley MN in something like 12hrs or less.

This is all very true, and Knock has just demanded €75m over 5 years to balance the subsidy pot out for themselves ( only recently)


I am minded to reduce the Dáil to 120 TDs from 10 seat constituencies x 12 nationally and then to reduce the cabinet and junior ministerial ranks to no more than 12 EACH out of that 120 and reintroduce the parliamentary secretary role for each department ( TD + €12k supplement) ....so that is 36 posts out of the 61 in a majority that dominates the Dáil.

Oh and Abolish the Seanad, I really don't know what is worse...subsidising Galway Airport or subsidising Fidelma Healy Eames...and please note I live in Galway.

Duggys Housemate

Madam_X wrote: »

Much as you'd like it to be so, I'm afraid few public representatives are as corrupt as Lowry. Bertie and Haughey yadda yadda - still only one area of Ireland.

Surely Bertie, Burke and in particular Haughey put Lowry in the ha penny place. Dublin produced most of the corrupt politicians in the last few decades.