A bouncer question

Iang87

Hi I'm just wondering could someone tell me when it becomes legally acceptable for bouncers to tackle a person to the ground and punch them.

I put the query here because if I put this in after hours it would turn into a series of stories about bouncers.

ResearchWill

Iang87 wrote: »

Hi I'm just wondering could someone tell me when it becomes legally acceptable for bouncers to tackle a person to the ground and punch them.

I put the query here because if I put this in after hours it would turn into a series of stories about bouncers.

A bouncer has no more power than any other person. On the face of it tackling a person to the ground and punching him is a section 2 more than likely section 3 assault. Of course the bouncer can and may raise one of a number of defences including self defence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0018.html#sec18

Sets out defences for any person using force.

Iang87

What is classed as self defence? I actually didnt lay a finger on any of them, we were in a public street and one came from behind and caught me by the throat while the others dragged my to the ground

bidiots

Iang87 wrote: »

What is classed as self defence? I actually didnt lay a finger on any of them, we were in a public street and one came from behind and caught me by the throat while the others dragged my to the ground

Out of the blue, someone came up behind you and grabbed your neck, unprovoked? Something is not right here

Corkbah

OP you are probably leaving out loads of other details .... but probably best to chat with a solicitor and get advice from them.

Ps. did you or they contact the Gardai at the time ?

SB2013

Self defense is basically the protection of person or property.

There is also a citizens arrest that can be exercised in some circumstances.

Iang87

I was standing at the door asking why they told me to leave the bar (i since found out from the bouncer that I was being loud). Loud, in a bar, in Ireland, on St Patricks day. I was told to leave I got my coat and walked out. Outside I was questioning there decision and I wasn't screaming or shouting but all I was getting was blank looks. Eventually they tackled me after the guy got me from behind then while I was on the ground being held down by 3 of them another guy felt the need to start punching me.

I will be going to the guards soon though to make a complaint against them. I am only asking because I didnt provoke them and I didnt threaten them and I didnt insult them but I was still treated like that. I didnt lay a finger on any of them even after they let me back up. The guards were called at the time and they guard told my friend to **** off away who wanted to tell him what happened and went straight to the bouncers. Another guard asked me what happened I told him and he said sure go on up to a different bar altogether

BRAIN FEEDs

well done Ian. go to the guards. no point in going to the guards when drink is so to speak. best of luck.

SB2013

Iang87 wrote: »

I was standing at the door asking why they told me to leave the bar (i since found out from the bouncer that I was being loud). Loud, in a bar, in Ireland, on St Patricks day. I was told to leave I got my coat and walked out. Outside I was questioning there decision and I wasn't screaming or shouting but all I was getting was blank looks. Eventually they tackled me after the guy got me from behind then while I was on the ground being held down by 3 of them another guy felt the need to start punching me.

I will be going to the guards soon though to make a complaint against them. I am only asking because I didnt provoke them and I didnt threaten them and I didnt insult them but I was still treated like that. I didnt lay a finger on any of them even after they let me back up. The guards were called at the time and they guard told my friend to **** off away who wanted to tell him what happened and went straight to the bouncers. Another guard asked me what happened I told him and he said sure go on up to a different bar altogether

I somehow doubt that their version would be so rosey. Neither will that of the cctv most likely. If you want to make a criminal complaint about them then go to the Gardaí when sober or you can make a complaint to the owner or PSA.

Iang87

There version will be exactly like that and the cctv will tell the same story. Thats what happened

SB2013

Iang87 wrote: »

There version will be exactly like that and the cctv will tell the same story. Thats what happened

I'll just recap your story. You were asked to leave for being too loud (an accomplishment in itself on Paddys Day) and had a reasoned discussion with them outside, where you definitely didn't shout at them. For no reason at all, four of them attacked you out of the blue. The Gardaí arrived and despite the sober and calm nature of your friend he was told to get lost. You were told to go away also whcih you did without question.

I will guarantee you the bouncers will not tell the same story. I will guarantee you that the cctv will show more than you remember. And I guarantee you the Gardaí will not remember two good natured fellas who were hard done by. But like I said, you have many avenues to pursue if you believe your memory of something that happened after a day of drinking is accurate.

Iang87

SB2013 wrote: »

I'll just recap your story. You were asked to leave for being too loud (an accomplishment in itself on Paddys Day) and had a reasoned discussion with them outside, where you definitely didn't shout at them. For no reason at all, four of them attacked you out of the blue. The Gardaí arrived and despite the sober and calm nature of your friend he was told to get lost. You were told to go away also whcih you did without question.

I will guarantee you the bouncers will not tell the same story. I will guarantee you that the cctv will show more than you remember. And I guarantee you the Gardaí will not remember two good natured fellas who were hard done by. But like I said, you have many avenues to pursue if you believe your memory of something that happened after a day of drinking is accurate.

A lady from the local newspaper was at the table behind me when I was asked to leave and saw it all happen, she followed me to the next bar to let me know she would be writing about what went on about how I was thrown out for nothing and assaulted when I kept questioning them. It needs to be remembered it was paddys day and it was only half 8 in the evening so there was plenty of sober people around.

I wasn't thrown out for being drunk thats why I remember it so perfectly, so much so that another bar across the way saw what happened and when I walked there to go in after all this they just let me in, doesn't really sound like tha actions of doorstaff to a drunk aggressive person now does it.

chops018

Iang87 wrote: »

A lady from the local newspaper was at the table behind me when I was asked to leave and saw it all happen, she followed me to the next bar to let me know she would be writing about what went on about how I was thrown out for nothing and assaulted when I kept questioning them. It needs to be remembered it was paddys day and it was only half 8 in the evening so there was plenty of sober people around.

I wasn't thrown out for being drunk thats why I remember it so perfectly, so much so that another bar across the way saw what happened and when I walked there to go in after all this they just let me in, doesn't really sound like tha actions of doorstaff to a drunk aggressive person now does it.

So you had just been assaulted, and you then decided that your next decision would be to go to another pub and keep drinking?

Iang87

The guards advice was to go home or go to another bar because nothing would be done about it that night so yes I did indeed

Iang87

I dont exactly want a debate on what I should or should not have done after the fact.

My real issue is they will claim self defence however they attacked me first. Its also been established I wasn't thrown out of the bar for being drunk and disorderly, he said I was being loud. The guard that came must surely feel I didnt do much wrong because why else wouldn't he just arrest me, why would he let me move on so freely.

Something isn't quite adding up for me thats why I'm asking, also apologies if i'm taking a tone with people I dont mean to be but i've played this in my head constantly since and ended up waiting 7 hours for an x ray last night so Its a fairly sore subject for me you know.

Peregrinus

What you need is a witness who hadn't been drinking and who is not connected with you, and who will confirm your version of events when it conflicts - as it unquestionably will - with the version of events told by the bouncers.

Without that, all you have is your own testimony - the testimony of a person who had been drinking on the night in question, whose behaviour was considered disruptive enough to ask them to leave, and who didn't make a formal complaint about assault until several days afterwards. In the event of a conflict of evidence, this evidence will not be preferred.

To answer your original question, what you describe the bouncers as having done to you would be a criminal assault. But the guards will not prosecute unless they are satisifed that they can prove the assault in court beyond reasonable doubt. Your evidence alone, if contradicted by the bouncers, will not be enough to do this.

godtabh

Iang87 wrote: »

ended up waiting 7 hours for an x ray last night so Its a fairly sore subject for me you know.

I thought you went to the pub next door?

Either way drink was involved (regardless of the amount) and as a result the Gardai are less likely to entertain you

Iang87

godtabh wrote: »

I thought you went to the pub next door?

Either way drink was involved (regardless of the amount) and as a result the Gardai are less likely to entertain you

the following day went to the hospital, didnt feel the pain til the following day as happens so often with anything that happens (injury wise).

Its ridiculous that they wont entertain me because there was drink taken. If they tell me that is the case I will hypothetically put it to the guard that if me and some of my friends drink and hold one of them down and punch him I wonder what will happen us. Drink taken just roles reversed but the bouncer will be protected again, how does that work

Melion

Why do people continuously believe that they have been targetted unfairly by bouncers? You were doing something wrong, no doubt in my mind. I absolutely 100% do not believe you were just standing outside "talking" to them.

Hoboo

Melion wrote: »

Why do people continuously believe that they have been targetted unfairly by bouncers? You were doing something wrong, no doubt in my mind. I absolutely 100% do not believe you were just standing outside "talking" to them.

Obviously you must have witnessed the incident from start to finish to have no doubt in your mind:rolleyes:

Perfect example why people should be mentally examined before jury duty.



To the original poster, get as many witnesses as you can, even go and speak to the bouncers again with your iphone on record, you never know, most of them are thick as **** and would love to boast in your face. And dont let it drop.

Wasnt in Dicey Reillys / Krystle by any chance ? Best rep in town for assaults.

Melion

Hoboo wrote: »

Obviously you must have witnessed the incident from start to finish to have no doubt in your mind:rolleyes:

I have worked on doors for long enough to have absolutely no doubt in my mind about what i said.

Hoboo wrote: »

To the original poster, get as many witnesses as you can, even go and speak to the bouncers again with your iphone on record, you never know, most of them are thick as **** and would love to boast in your face. And dont let it drop.

Anything to back up this claim of yours?

Iang87

Melion wrote: »

I have worked on doors for long enough to have absolutely no doubt in my mind about what i said.




Anything to back up this claim of yours?

I dont suppose you were working a door in limerick sunday night Melion were you.

I started talking to them but they're sniggering and attempts to humiliate me outside angered me.

Regardless how I acted do you deem it acceptable for me to not lay a hand on you and you tackle me hold me down while another "security" guard punches me while i'm being restrained

Melion

Iang87 wrote: »

I dont suppose you were working a door in limerick sunday night Melion were you.

I started talking to them but they're sniggering and attempts to humiliate me outside angered me.

Regardless how I acted do you deem it acceptable for me to not lay a hand on you and you tackle me hold me down while another "security" guard punches me while i'm being restrained

No i wasnt.

When you got angry what did you do? Did you just keep talking calmly?

Curly Judge

Do you have form for this sort of thing?
I mean, are you by any chance on some kind of list?

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

Iang87

stayed relatively calm for another minute or two then one particularly pleasant guy came and told me to **** off that I was thrown out then I told him to **** himself he pushed me back and before I even raise a hand 3 of them have me on the ground.

Only to land a few punches on me and let me back up. Thats what baffles me why take me down to let me up, can only have been to land a few because contrary to what you believe the vast majority of these guys work in these jobs because they're not made for thinking.

Just like the little weasel thats the head of security stood behind them, see he does think.

IrishHomer

Curly Judge wrote: »

Do you have form for this sort of thing?
I mean, are you by any chance on some kind of list?

Any bouncer or doorman is offside if they touch any person on the street! They are only covered within the boundary of the licensed premises.

I worked on doors for 14years and I saw plenty of bouncers get sacked for running onto the footpath and street to intervene in trouble and then be immediately sacked the following day.

Iang87

Curly Judge wrote: »

Do you have form for this sort of thing?
I mean, are you by any chance on some kind of list?

No man, I've never been arrested in my life and never been thrown out of any bar in my life and i've been going to this bar for years

Melion

Iang87 wrote: »

stayed relatively calm for another minute or two then one particularly pleasant guy came and told me to **** off that I was thrown out then I told him to **** himself he pushed me back and before I even raise a hand 3 of them have me on the ground.

He pushed you back? Did you push him first? I thought he grabbed you by the throat?

Iang87 wrote: »

Just like the little weasel thats the head of security stood behind them, see he does think.

Icon?

Iang87

IrishHomer wrote: »

Any bouncer or doorman is offside if they touch any person on the street! They are only covered within the boundary of the licensed premises.

I worked on doors for 14years and I saw plenty of bouncers get sacked for running onto the footpath and street to intervene in trouble and then be immediately sacked the following day.

all of this was on the street, when initially asked to leave I got my coat and said can i talk to you outside only to be blanked and made a mockery of outside.

SO yes all of this happened outside with no scene being made in the bar

Miike

Iang87 wrote: »

stayed relatively calm for another minute or two then one particularly pleasant guy came and told me to **** off that I was thrown out then I told him to **** himself he pushed me back and before I even raise a hand 3 of them have me on the ground.

Only to land a few punches on me and let me back up. Thats what baffles me why take me down to let me up, can only have been to land a few because contrary to what you believe the vast majority of these guys work in these jobs because they're not made for thinking.

Just like the little weasel thats the head of security stood behind them, see he does think.

I know exactly where you're on about now and I've filed a complaint about the establishment my self, secondary to an assault. From my first hand experience the things you have in your favor are: (A) Gaurds arrived on the 'scene' and (B) You've gotten medical assistance after the assault (For the official paper work)

I suggest visiting a Gaurda station about the topic and contacting the PSA directly as speaking the 'manager' in this establishment is p*ssing against the wind.

Iang87

Nail on the head with location melion but it was the bar not the club. All this took place at like half 8 sunday night.

One guy had come from behind catching my throat as the other guy grabbed my arms, to be honest whichever on came first I'm not sure because we're talking split seconds of a difference. Either way there was 3 or 4 of them that took me down so you can imagine how many arms were on me

Iang87

Miike wrote: »

I know exactly where you're on about now and I've filed a complaint about the establishment my self, secondary to an assault. From my first hand experience the things you have in your favor are: (A) Gaurds arrived on the 'scene' and (B) You've gotten medical assistance after the assault (For the official paper work)

I suggest visiting a Gaurda station about the topic and contacting the PSA directly as speaking the 'manager' in this establishment is p*ssing against the wind.

I have spoken to a guard I went to henry street on monday evening, he said he was going to view the cctv and would get back to me so i'm waiting for his call since last night.

Also learned under the data protection act I have a right to see the video if I ask

Miike

Iang87 wrote: »

I have spoken to a guard I went to henry street on monday evening, he said he was going to view the cctv and would get back to me so i'm waiting for his call since last night.

Also learned under the data protection act I have a right to see the video if I ask

I'm unsure of the legislation regarding the viewing of CCTV however, BUT request that you see it and see how it pans out. Unless you push for this, that gaurd isn't going to do anything (it's a fact...) it took me WEEKS to get anywhere on this and that's even pulling a few internal strings in the bar.

Peanut2011

Ok OP, having read trough your replies here are few that really make no sense!

Iang87 wrote: »

I was standing at the door asking why they told me to leave the bar (i since found out from the bouncer that I was being loud). Loud, in a bar, in Ireland, on St Patricks day. I was told to leave I got my coat and walked out. Outside I was questioning there decision and I wasn't screaming or shouting but all I was getting was blank looks. Eventually they tackled me after the guy got me from behind then while I was on the ground being held down by 3 of them another guy felt the need to start punching me.

Given a reason for being kicked out as "being loud" means that you were too obnoxious, rowdy, loud and disrupting everyone else in the bar. They have duty to other people there too so they asked you to leave.

Once on the outside, there is no way in hell any bouncer would attack you as you described as that is assault and they could lose their licence and therefore their job apart from facing charges.

When people are kicked out of the place, their version of "Outside I was questioning there decision and I wasn't screaming or shouting" is quite different from anyone else's.

Iang87 wrote: »

A lady from the local newspaper was at the table behind me when I was asked to leave and saw it all happen, she followed me to the next bar to let me know she would be writing about what went on about how I was thrown out for nothing and assaulted when I kept questioning them.

Was this lady not there when Garda came around and could she not given her name and statement to them as a independent witnesses? Surely they would have listened to and recorded that in incident report and would also taken all the details in case you decided to proceed with assault claim?

Iang87 wrote: »

The guard that came must surely feel I didnt do much wrong because why else wouldn't he just arrest me, why would he let me move on so freely.

Reason you were not arrested was the fact that you were only kicked out for being loud and they wanted you gone, which you chose to do. Had you stayed you would have been arrested.

They probably judged that you were not too drunk and decided was better if you left.

Iang87 wrote: »

the following day went to the hospital, didnt feel the pain til the following day as happens so often with anything that happens (injury wise).

If you did sustain the injury from the assault the injury at that point will have to be undeniably caused by the punches and not anything else. The fact that you already had drink taken and continued to drink elsewhere, could mean that the injury came afterwards.

You did not, as far as I can see, report to the Garda on the night that you had any injury as a result of the assault therefore a bit late to complain unless as mentioned it is undeniably from the punches.

Iang87 wrote: »

I started talking to them but they're sniggering and attempts to humiliate me outside angered me.

Regardless how I acted do you deem it acceptable for me to not lay a hand on you and you tackle me hold me down while another "security" guard punches me while i'm being restrained

And here it is!! It would seem the fact that they did not want to rise up to your "calm and normal" questioning got you worked up and I'm guessing got you to puff up your chest at them in threatening manner. They will argue they felt threatened and acted accordingly.

If that was not the case the Garda on scene would have taken a whole lot of a different approach.

The scene like this and why door staff get such a bad rep is way too common!

Iang87

and its people accepting bouncers pulling people onto the ground and punching them while there down that makes them feel they're above the law.

the being loud question you asked, i only found out a while later thats why I was thrown out. The lady thats saw it all unfortunately was told the same by the guards as my friends that they had drink taken so they wouldn't listen to anything any of them had to say. I believe **** off are the words the guard used to my friends.

I didnt puff my chest out and get aggressive until I was told to **** off by a bouncer who wasn't even there when the incident took place, he took a step towards me and pushed me and then I was tackled.

Did I claim I was an angel during all this, I did not, however can I be dragged and punched on the ground by this people no I most certainly can not.

If you want me to get very technical, none of them were wearing any ID badges or anything distinguishing them as security which means they shouldnt have even thrown me out.

It truly is astonoshing that having never been thrown out of a bar in my life, having never been in a fight where alcohol has been taken in my life that people take the you must have been threatening you must have been this and that attitude towards me. I got annoyed outside yes and did raise my voice with them but only after I got blanked repeatedly by them while they made little smart comments and remarks. If these scumbags had any interest in defusing the situation then surely they wouldn't act like that now would they.

Iang87

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Ok OP, having read trough your replies here are few that really make no sense!



Given a reason for being kicked out as "being loud" means that you were too obnoxious, rowdy, loud and disrupting everyone else in the bar. They have duty to other people there too so they asked you to leave.

Once on the outside, there is no way in hell any bouncer would attack you as you described as that is assault and they could lose their licence and therefore their job apart from facing charges.

When people are kicked out of the place, their version of "Outside I was questioning there decision and I wasn't screaming or shouting" is quite different from anyone else's.




Was this lady not there when Garda came around and could she not given her name and statement to them as a independent witnesses? Surely they would have listened to and recorded that in incident report and would also taken all the details in case you decided to proceed with assault claim?



Reason you were not arrested was the fact that you were only kicked out for being loud and they wanted you gone, which you chose to do. Had you stayed you would have been arrested.

They probably judged that you were not too drunk and decided was better if you left.



If you did sustain the injury from the assault the injury at that point will have to be undeniably caused by the punches and not anything else. The fact that you already had drink taken and continued to drink elsewhere, could mean that the injury came afterwards.

You did not, as far as I can see, report to the Garda on the night that you had any injury as a result of the assault therefore a bit late to complain unless as mentioned it is undeniably from the punches.



And here it is!! It would seem the fact that they did not want to rise up to your "calm and normal" questioning got you worked up and I'm guessing got you to puff up your chest at them in threatening manner. They will argue they felt threatened and acted accordingly.

If that was not the case the Garda on scene would have taken a whole lot of a different approach.

The scene like this and why door staff get such a bad rep is way too common!

3 or 4 lads holding a person down while one more punches him while he's down. Would you call that acting accordingly?

SB2013

I suggest you don't threaten to hold the Garda down and beat him. This would be a serious error in judgement on your part and would not end well.

Iang87

I wont dont worry, just its a fairly annoying and embarrassing situation you know, As you can tell by my anger when some suggestions are made that I'm not used to being involved in these situations so when I try to do the right thing and am met with you probably deserved it then I get a little annoyed

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Peanut2011

Iang87 wrote: »

the being loud question you asked, i only found out a while later thats why I was thrown out.

The lady thats saw it all unfortunately was told the same by the guards as my friends that they had drink taken so they wouldn't listen to anything any of them had to say. I believe **** off are the words the guard used to my friends.

I didnt puff my chest out and get aggressive until I was told to **** off by a bouncer who wasn't even there when the incident took place, he took a step towards me and pushed me and then I was tackled.

Did I claim I was an angel during all this, I did not, however can I be dragged and punched on the ground by this people no I most certainly can not.

If you want me to get very technical, none of them were wearing any ID badges or anything distinguishing them as security which means they shouldnt have even thrown me out.

It truly is astonoshing that having never been thrown out of a bar in my life, having never been in a fight where alcohol has been taken in my life that people take the you must have been threatening you must have been this and that attitude towards me. I got annoyed outside yes and did raise my voice with them but only after I got blanked repeatedly by them while they made little smart comments and remarks. If these scumbags had any interest in defusing the situation then surely they wouldn't act like that now would they.

Let me answer the highlighted parts:

1. Found out later, well if you want to be technical every place has their own policy and they all contain that they all have grounds to refuse entry or eject people at their discretion. It is the private premisses and their choice who they have. They never had to give you the reason why they did not want you there.

2. If that is what the Guard used to your friend you could have taken their number and make a complaint against them if you feel hard done by.

3. So you puffed your chest!! They saw that as a threatening manner and restrained you. Did you expect that they will wait until you have swung for one of them or actually hit one of them??

4. You being dragged on the ground by 3 of them was believe it or not for your and their protection. When you are restrained like that there is very little you can do. And the fact they called the Guards would tell me they wanted you away from there. You could have waked away in the first instance and make a complaint to the establishment after, or better yet, never use them. If they don't want your money someone else will.

5. If they did not wear their licences as they are required to do you can make the complaint to the PSA. It is an offence not to wear or have one if working as security and them and the premises can be seriously fined.

6. As you say, you did that only after they refused to interact with you. Could you not have walked away?? You started aggression from what I can gather from your own posts.

Iang87 wrote: »

3 or 4 lads holding a person down while one more punches him while he's down. Would you call that acting accordingly?

You seem to have confusing recollection about other events, are you sure they punched you or was that just the shove that took you to the ground??

After all you spoke nicely to them when outside only to admit you started puffing your chest when they refused to interact and told you to F off....

Now did they drag you to the ground when you were talking politely to them or was it after you started puffing your chest?


Don't get me wrong I am not saying anyone deserves to be assaulted, the problem is that people are very quick to play the victim card without looking at their own actions first.

Melion

Iang87 wrote: »

and its people accepting bouncers pulling people onto the ground and punching them while there down that makes them feel they're above the law.

Nobody accepts it.

Iang87 wrote: »

the being loud question you asked, i only found out a while later thats why I was thrown out. The lady thats saw it all unfortunately was told the same by the guards as my friends that they had drink taken so they wouldn't listen to anything any of them had to say. I believe **** off are the words the guard used to my friends.

You didnt know why you were asked to leave? Not believing that im afraid.

Iang87 wrote: »

I didnt puff my chest out and get aggressive until I was told to **** off by a bouncer who wasn't even there when the incident took place, he took a step towards me and pushed me and then I was tackled.

Why get aggressive at all? What was that going to achieve? Did you expect them to be impressed by you turning into a big hard man and they would just let you back into the bar? If you are asked to leave then just walk away.

Iang87 wrote: »

If you want me to get very technical, none of them were wearing any ID badges or anything distinguishing them as security which means they shouldnt have even thrown me out.

More lies, they all wear security IDs either around their neck or on their arm.

Iang87 wrote: »

It truly is astonoshing that having never been thrown out of a bar in my life, having never been in a fight where alcohol has been taken in my life that people take the you must have been threatening you must have been this and that attitude towards me. I got annoyed outside yes and did raise my voice with them but only after I got blanked repeatedly by them while they made little smart comments and remarks. If these scumbags had any interest in defusing the situation then surely they wouldn't act like that now would they.

Who cares if they blank you? They told you why you were ejected from the bar, they are under no obligation to talk to you outside.

Iang87

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Let me answer the highlighted parts:

1. Found out later, well if you want to be technical every place has their own policy and they all contain that they all have grounds to refuse entry or eject people at their discretion. It is the private premisses and their choice who they have. They never had to give you the reason why they did not want you there.

2. If that is what the Guard used to your friend you could have taken their number and make a complaint against them if you feel hard done by.

3. So you puffed your chest!! They saw that as a threatening manner and restrained you. Did you expect that they will wait until you have swung for one of them or actually hit one of them??

4. You being dragged on the ground by 3 of them was believe it or not for your and their protection. When you are restrained like that there is very little you can do. And the fact they called the Guards would tell me they wanted you away from there. You could have waked away in the first instance and make a complaint to the establishment after, or better yet, never use them. If they don't want your money someone else will.

5. If they did not wear their licences as they are required to do you can make the complaint to the PSA. It is an offence not to wear or have one if working as security and them and the premises can be seriously fined.

6. As you say, you did that only after they refused to interact with you. Could you not have walked away?? You started aggression from what I can gather from your own posts.

1. Fair enough on that aspect, a bit ridiculous but fair enough.
2. My friend only told me this afterwards.
3. I was told to **** off and pushed, then i "puffed up my chest", what should I have done?
4. punching me on the ground is also for my own protection is it. They only held me down for maybe 20 seconds so I fail to see the own protection part, if anything I was more annoyed when I got up.
5. I will be making that complaint.
Could you have walked away? Been going to that bar since I was maybe 19, i'm 26 in a weeks time, was never thrown out or never caused trouble before why should I have walked away without at least an explanation.

Peanut, I felt the punches and my girlfriend who had just arrived from work saw him punching me. It wasn't the force of being pulled down.

Iang87

Melion wrote: »

Nobody accepts it.



You didnt know why you were asked to leave? Not believing that im afraid.



Why get aggressive at all? What was that going to achieve? Did you expect them to be impressed by you turning into a big hard man and they would just let you back into the bar? If you are asked to leave then just walk away.



More lies, they all wear security IDs either around their neck or on their arm.



Who cares if they blank you? They told you why you were ejected from the bar, they are under no obligation to talk to you outside.

I found out later thats why I was asked to leave,

from the start outside I said I didnt want to go back in I just wanted an answer from them

They weren't wearing id's none of them were, now I was there and i've established you weren't but you can tell me that its definite lies.

Your last point shows you must be one of those ignorant assholes we were talking about earlier, thats why doormen have a bad name, any decent person would answer a calm question being asked by someone who feels wronged but not doormen because theres no obligation. Christ above thats plain ignorance and could have ended the situation immediately with an answer.

Melion

Iang87 wrote: »

They weren't wearing id's none of them were, now I was there and i've established you weren't but you can tell me that its definite lies.

Ive been there plenty of times over the last few years to know that they all wear them around their neck(dangerous but whatever) or on their arms.

Iang87 wrote: »

Your last point shows you must be one of those ignorant assholes we were talking about earlier, thats why doormen have a bad name, any decent person would answer a calm question being asked by someone who feels wronged but not doormen because theres no obligation. Christ above thats plain ignorance and could have ended the situation immediately with an answer.

You were told why you were ejected from the bar, what did you want answered? They are under no obligation to talk to you anymore just because you fancy a chat and want to act big in front of your mates. You have said yourself that you werent calm and were getting aggressive. At a guess there was 200 people in the bar at the time and for some reason you think that you are above all of them and deserving of the attention of the doormen?

Peanut2011

Iang87 wrote: »

1. Fair enough on that aspect, a bit ridiculous but fair enough.
2. My friend only told me this afterwards.
3. I was told to **** off and pushed, then i "puffed up my chest", what should I have done?
4. punching me on the ground is also for my own protection is it. They only held me down for maybe 20 seconds so I fail to see the own protection part, if anything I was more annoyed when I got up.
5. I will be making that complaint.
Could you have walked away? Been going to that bar since I was maybe 19, i'm 26 in a weeks time, was never thrown out or never caused trouble before why should I have walked away without at least an explanation.

Peanut, I felt the punches and my girlfriend who had just arrived from work saw him punching me. It wasn't the force of being pulled down.

Ok

3. You should have walked away and complained to the management of the unfair treatment and of the unprofessional behaviour of their door staff.

4. No, I don't agree it is. I've worked many years on doors and not once did I have to punch someone. Furthermore, if you walked away as per previous answer they would have never gotten the chance to do this.
As you knew you were never going to get back in there why stay and argue. I never understood anyone who does that.

It does not matter how long you were going to that place, you should have walked away cos they are not obliged to give you a reason. Not saying they could not have handled it better but what were you hoping to achieve by staying there and arguing?

I'm not saying they did not punch you, if they did than report it as an assault. Write to the management of the club and request the CCTV footage and explain that you are taking legal action against the bar and security member than assaulted you.

However be it right or wrong, the fact the Guard did not take your statement and told you to get lost, you have very little chance of this having any sort of a result for you.

Unless you were injured and you will have any sort of a damage as a result I would take it as a life lesson and move on. But that is just me.

SB2013

Iang87 wrote: »

Could you have walked away? Been going to that bar since I was maybe 19, i'm 26 in a weeks time, was never thrown out or never caused trouble before why should I have walked away without at least an explanation.

This is where you will encounter an issue. A person who was thinking straight would have walked away instead of getting themselves worked up and angry. Bouncers will generally ignore someone putting it up to them like this. But they will only do this for a certain amount of time. And from the way you just spoke to Melion I think it's clear that you are not the most calm person at the best of times so one can only imagine how you were on te night.

You've already been told what you can do.

1. You can make a criminal complaint to the Gardaí. Be aware that if you do you will also be liable to a counter complaint from the staff as well as public order charges, depending on what the cctv and witnesses say.

2. You can make a complaint to the PSA about the security staff.

3. You can make a complaint to the owner of the premises.

4. You can consult a solicitor with regard to a civil action.

As to your friends. Gardaí don't open up with the phrase "**** off". It's reserved for the over excited, often hard of hearing, who will not let the Garda do his job.

chops018

Write a complaint on their facebook page, all the cool kids do that these days.

Iang87

ok peanut and melion,

peanut you said I should have walked away instead of acting the big man in front of my mates. My mates weren't outside when I was initially walked outside, they finished their drinks then came out, also i'm not one of those twats that requires his mates to be around to stand up for myself, as a matter of fact I sent a few on to the next pub as to make sure it didnt turn into a stand off because there was 7 of us. Lets not forget it is half 8 on sunday this took place, this is not a drinking all day session and its now 2 in the morning we went out around 4 and this is half 8. I was after having 5 pints thats all. Not exactly an amount to get you drunk. Either way you feel i'm wrong and I feel i'm right we'll just have to leave it at that.

Melion you wern't there, they weren't wearing badges. It really is that simple. You've also decided i'm wrong and thats fine its your opinion however you need to realise that you find it acceptable that people can be tackled and punched while being held down. I'd worry if I were you but thats fine.

Thanks people for their opinions but just going to leave this thread its become what i feared it would become. I will be taking legal action against them because i'm certain if me and my friends done it to one of them, we'd all have been arrested by now.

chops018

Iang87 wrote: »

Thanks people for their opinions but just going to leave this thread its become what i feared it would become. I will be taking legal action against them because i'm certain if me and my friends done it to one of them, we'd all have been arrested by now.

Good.

castie

I worked in nightclub for 8 years.
Ive seen worse.

Anyone saying 100% bouncers could not have done this is delusional.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coroner-sends-nightclub-death-case-back-to-dpp-26044534.html

While unproven the above shows exactly what can happen.
Bouncers should never put their hands on anyone outside the premises.
If four of them felt "threatened" by one guy (even if he was shouting at them) then they are not suited to handle security of a venue.