If/when Kidney goes, who will we get?

lurtz

not sure if Schmidt will stay past this year,his wife really wants to go back to nz and a few other family matters. That said his young lad is in 5th year so leaving no would be a bit awkward

errlloyd

Paddy power have put Ewen McKenzie in at 10/1 - He wasn't there at all yesterday. I'm tempted to bet in hope.

CIARAN_BOYLE

lurtz wrote: »

not sure if Schmidt will stay past this year,his wife really wants to go back to nz and a few other family matters. That said his young lad is in 5th year so leaving no would be a bit awkward

Schmidt is contracted till the end of the 2013/2014 season with Leinster when his son Tim sits his leaving cert. I reckon he will leave Ireland then.

[Jackass]

Yeah Leinster have Schmidt under contract until the end of next season...however, this is the IRFU we're talking about, and we had Conway under contract for 2 more seasons....

I don't trust the IRFU to make this decision, and I unfortunately think whoever they get, they will be another abject failure and a yes man. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong however.

CIARAN_BOYLE

[Jackass] wrote: »

Yeah Leinster have Schmidt under contract until the end of next season...however, this is the IRFU we're talking about, and we had Conway under contract for 2 more seasons....

Yeah I know that if the IRFU wanted him Schmidt could be transferred across.

I was explaining to the previous poster who stated that Schmidt might want to leave at the end of this year that Schmidt had another year here

bilston

I expect it will be Ruddock. Maybe not the best outcome but far from the worst. Ideally they will go for a SH man but money may be an issue

con1421

George Hook :-)

Clegg

Gerry Thornley is pushing for Les Kiss. He always mentions him in his articles.

In todays Times Gerry talks about the Irish squad needing new ideas and a fresh start. How are we supposed to get that from someone who's been on the backroom staff for five years? He's part of a coaching staff that has sen us drop to 9th in the IRB rankings ffs.

Thornley is a terrible journalist these days.

ScissorPaperRock

Clegg wrote: »

Gerry Thornley is pushing for Les Kiss. He always mentions him in his articles.

In todays Times Gerry talks about the Irish squad needing new ideas and a fresh start. How are we supposed to get that from someone who's been on the backroom staff for five years? He's part of a coaching staff that has sen us drop to 9th in the IRB rankings ffs.

Thornley is a terrible journalist these days.

He said in today's article that Schmidt is the obvious choice to take Ireland forward, but sounded uncertain about whether he would want it. He also said on Against the Head last night that Schmidt would be his first choice.

I really hope the IRFU find a way to make this happen. It would be such a refreshing change and so exciting to see what he could do with these players. I can't see how he could turn down the opportunity, to be honest, if the IRFU make the right offer.

Clegg

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

He said in today's article that Schmidt is the obvious choice to take Ireland forward, but sounded uncertain about whether he would want it. He also said on Against the Head last night that Schmidt would be his first choice.

I really hope the IRFU find a way to make this happen. It would be such a refreshing change and so exciting to see what he could do with these players. I can't see how he could turn down the opportunity, to be honest, if the IRFU make the right offer.

Schmidt would be the ideal choice but most people seem to think that he's heading back to New Zealand when his contract expires with Leinster.

It's just the little mentions of Kiss that are concerning. Thornley tries to mention him as often as he can. And he's always praising him when in reality he's done nothing worthy to receive it.

jm08

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

interim coach for north america(Ruddock maybe) from within, let kidney finish up, or if McKenzie has a backs coach in mind make him caretaker

Kiss was his assistant at the Waratahs for 5/6 years.

The year the Reds won the Super Rugby title, they were the team that kicked the most in the whole competition.

Clegg

I suppose there's no chance of getting Jake White is there?

Robbo

Google maps says it takes 2 Hours 4 Minutes but I know he'll be there in half that. You know it makes sense.

ssaye

ROR on LF has this to say, usually inside track

"My understanding is Rudduck effectively has the job. They will want to keep the most non athletic player ever to play involved, possibly keeping Kiss. So this is what will happen. Kidney will "decide" not renew his contract. He will be thanked and praised from a height for delivering Eddies grand slam. He may be elevated to the Director of Rugby Man management with specific responsibility with developing talent for the "unseen" work....
So they will do appoint Ruddock on a interim basis much like Lancaster, converting to full-time coach when we win a couple of games in the summer. This is in sharp contrast to how kidney was appointed, he choose to sidestep the first couple of games v All blacks so as not to get off on the wrong foot."

ScissorPaperRock

Aussie media are quoting an unnamed senior IRFU official as having said that Ewen McKenzie will be the next Irish coach. Possibly tabloid-style nonsense, but it's interesting, especially with the timing of the whole thing.

I wonder how he would shape the Ireland team's approach to the game. Would there be any concerns that he was a prop and mightn't therefore know a lot about back play? Apparently an influential ARU official said that McKenzie would not be the next Wallabies coach for this reason.

Would he be likely to get more passing and offloading going on with our forwards? (There certainly couldn't be any less!)

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Paddy power have put Ewen McKenzie in at 10/1 - He wasn't there at all yesterday. I'm tempted to bet in hope.

6 hours later and he's 3/1 and now favourite. Someone said earlier in the thread that the bookies always seem to know best, maybe they slashed the odds because of people betting, or maybe they know something we don't.

dtpc191991

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Aussie media are quoting an unnamed senior IRFU official as having said that Ewen McKenzie will be the next Irish coach. Possibly tabloid-style nonsense, but it's interesting, especially with the timing of the whole thing.

I wonder how he would shape the Ireland team's approach to the game. Would there be any concerns that he was a prop and mightn't therefore know a lot about back play? Apparently an influential ARU official said that McKenzie would not be the next Wallabies coach for this reason.

Would he be likely to get more passing and offloading going on with our forwards? (There certainly couldn't be any less!)

Watching clips of the Reds on youtube. They have a pretty creative attacking game and look to offload in the tackle as well as running good angles in the backline etc. He certainly looks a better ticket than Kidney.

RoundBox11

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Watching clips of the Reds on youtube. They have a pretty creative attacking game and look to offload in the tackle as well as running good angles in the backline etc. He certainly looks a better ticket than Kidney.

Thats more down to the backs coach tho really. Who is the reds backs coach anyway?


Also, why is everyone suddenly adopting this Thornleyesque "coaching ticket" stuff

dtpc191991

This quote from wikipedia would point to him being exactly the kind of guy we need!!

"The Reds had had several poor seasons and had not won back to back matches for several seasons but were transformed under McKenzie, playing an entertaining, expansive style which led them to a 5th place finish in 2010, narrowly missing out on playoff qualification, before making and then winning the Super Rugby Grand Final in 2011".

dtpc191991

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Thats more down to the backs coach tho really. Who is the reds backs coach anyway?


Also, why is everyone suddenly adopting this Thornleyesque "coaching ticket" stuff

Just a nice easy phrase to use. Nothing to do with Thornley. XD

Maybe if we are lucky the IRFU will let him bring some of his own staff in if they are interested. Plus he has a good name down South so I'm sure there would be backs coaches, scrum coaches etc. who may not have been sure of joining an Irish coaching team in the past who may be more interested if they were to be given an opportunity to work with him.

fryup

Matt Williams anyone??

i mean he wants to be irish anyway talking about "us" and "we" when refering to Ireland on Setanta

yimrsg

The Reds were abject last weekend against a very limited Force, didn't look anything like a top super XV side. They've stagnated a bit this year.

dtpc191991

yimrsg wrote: »

The Reds were abject last weekend against a very limited Force, didn't look anything like a top super XV side. They've stagnated a bit this year.

I'd still be willing to give him a shot. He is a Southern hemisphere coach with reasonably good credentials and has never been involved with Irish Rugby before and therefore he should not be subject to bias.

PhatPiggins

.ak wrote: »

Jake White is probably a good candidate.

He's turned the Brumbies powder puff pack into a serious scrummaging unit, far worse options than him but he plays a fairly boring game.

PhatPiggins

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Aussie media are quoting an unnamed senior IRFU official as having said that Ewen McKenzie will be the next Irish coach. Possibly tabloid-style nonsense, but it's interesting, especially with the timing of the whole thing.

I wonder how he would shape the Ireland team's approach to the game. Would there be any concerns that he was a prop and mightn't therefore know a lot about back play? Apparently an influential ARU official said that McKenzie would not be the next Wallabies coach for this reason.

Would he be likely to get more passing and offloading going on with our forwards? (There certainly couldn't be any less!)

Tosh have you seen how the Reds play! He won't be the next Aussie coach mainly because he's only had one very good super rugby season and a lot of average ones.

A guy who needs more experience before getting the Aussie job.

irishbucsfan

yimrsg wrote: »

The Reds were abject last weekend against a very limited Force, didn't look anything like a top super XV side. They've stagnated a bit this year.

Ewen McKenzie is no longer their coach. He moved aside and became a director at the franchise. They have a different coach this season.

subfreq

I like McKenzie, and players seem to really like McKenzie which is part of why he gets so much out of them. He has a very good relationship with Kiss which I have no problem with. Ireland should be proud of their defensive record at the national level. The big missing element has been continuity style play and real attacking smarts.

I see no reason to get rid of him.

If McKenzie does come I would like to see Eddie Jones involved as technical/attacking advisor as well as ROG being involved in the coaching and tactical planning for the backs.

CIARAN_BOYLE

To be honest I liked Kiss when he was just our defence coach. Since he started trying to be backs coach things have been going to pot.

If Kiss was to stay on as defence coach and a backs coach came in I wouldn't mind that at all

yimrsg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ewen McKenzie is no longer their coach. He moved aside and became a director at the franchise. They have a different coach this season.

The title, Director of Rugby can mean anything, it could be like Quins were O'Shea is still in charge or that he's just there to oversee the transition of coaching regime. He's done well in the past, but at present the Reds are faltering and he's associated with them.

It could be that he recognises that he's gone as far as he can with the players and is moving on and there's a definite drop in the Reds, at the moment. I think he'd be a good appointment as he's outside the IRFU, but after watching their last game my doubts have increased.

irishbucsfan

yimrsg wrote: »

The title, Director of Rugby can mean anything, it could be like Quins were O'Shea is still in charge or that he's just there to oversee the transition of coaching regime. He's done well in the past, but at present the Reds are faltering and he's associated with them.

It could be that he recognises that he's gone as far as he can with the players and is moving on and there's a definite drop in the Reds, at the moment. I think he'd be a good appointment as he's outside the IRFU, but after watching their last game my doubts have increased.

Hes not a director of rugby, its some other role.

It was precisely to distance himself and prepare the club for him moving on.

Dunno how good he'd be, but I wouldn't judge him on this season if someone else is head coach.

Jim McKay is their backs coach I think. He's highly rated, I'd love him to move up.

yimrsg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hes not a director of rugby, its some other role.

It was precisely to distance himself and prepare the club for him moving on.

Dunno how good he'd be, but I wouldn't judge him on this season if someone else is head coach.

Jim McKay is their backs coach I think. He's highly rated, I'd love him to move up.

Your right he's not director of rugby but in the tv buildups and game previews of the Reds he's listed as picking the team and head honcho: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3824_8544913,00.html

Faingaa is one of three changes made by Director of Coaching Ewen McKenzie with scrum-half Nick Frisby earning his first Super Rugby starting role and Jono Lance coming into full-back.

It could be that the new coach is the fall guy much like Redpath/Diamond at Sale. It's not an ideal situation though and looks to be affecting the team.

DeDoc

Just throwing it out there

In last years 6N we scored 13 tries and 121 points - top, by a distance, in each category in the 6N. In this years we created (and took) plenty of opportunities against Wales, and created lots against Scotland. England and France games were in terrible conditions, and Italy.....well fin de siecle.
Without knowing exactly what Kiss' remit was and where it stopped, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to jetison him. Selection, injury (this season) and overall tactics have been our biggest failings IMO in the last few years. A lot of the consitituent elements have done ok given what players we have and injuries etc.

In that regard I think we could do a lot worse than letting the backroom boys take charge for the summer and take our time in making a decision on a longer-term replacement.

LeeroyJones

I hope Kiss is part of the next regime, just not as head coach.

Lapin

Joe Brolly !

Oops, too late.

downthemiddle

subfreq wrote: »

I like McKenzie, and players seem to really like McKenzie which is part of why he gets so much out of them. He has a very good relationship with Kiss which I have no problem with. Ireland should be proud of their defensive record at the national level. The big missing element has been continuity style play and real attacking smarts.

I see no reason to get rid of him.

If McKenzie does come I would like to see Eddie Jones involved as technical/attacking advisor as well as ROG being involved in the coaching and tactical planning for the backs.

Brilliant

.ak

Tbh I really don't rate Kiss as anything more than a defence coach, the tries we scored last year relied on an awful amount of opportunistic moments, same the welsh game. We haven't looked like a threatening team since 2007 tbh.

Swiwi

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Schmidt is contracted till the end of the 2013/2014 season with Leinster when his son Tim sits his leaving cert. I reckon he will leave Ireland then.

I wouldn't put too much store on Tim's leaving cert being a deciding factor in Schmidt staying or going. No-one has the foggiest what a leaving cert is in NZ, so unless Joe is wanting Tim to show he can knuckle down to his studies, there will be little academic benefit to returning to NZ with "leaving cert" on his CV...maybe it is recognised by NZ universities though to gain entrance without a NZ school qualification, but I'd be a little surprised.

Swiwi

jm08 wrote: »

Kiss was his assistant at the Waratahs for 5/6 years.

The year the Reds won the Super Rugby title, they were the team that kicked the most in the whole competition.

Really? I remember the Reds season that year for being the Will & Quade show. Have you got stats to back that statement up? I assume your not referring to conversions for all the tries they scored that year, in which case they might have kicked the most.

But I'm happy to stand corrected!

Swiwi

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Aussie media are quoting an unnamed senior IRFU official as having said that Ewen McKenzie will be the next Irish coach. Possibly tabloid-style nonsense, but it's interesting, especially with the timing of the whole thing.

I wonder how he would shape the Ireland team's approach to the game. Would there be any concerns that he was a prop and mightn't therefore know a lot about back play? Apparently an influential ARU official said that McKenzie would not be the next Wallabies coach for this reason.

Would he be likely to get more passing and offloading going on with our forwards? (There certainly couldn't be any less!)

The good old "unnamed official" rears its head. The dumb prop cliché too (apologies to any front row forwards out there).

I doubt McKenzie has commited to anything, he will wait and see how Robbie fares v the Lions, as I reckon McKenzie would be a shoo-in for the job if Deans goes. I don't see them taking another non-Aussie coach, if they did only Jake White would be in the frame.

Edit: to quote the man himself "''You guys love conspiracy theories,'' McKenzie said of the speculation tying him to the Ireland set-up"

ScissorPaperRock

Swiwi wrote: »

The good old "unnamed official" rears its head. The dumb prop cliché too (apologies to any front row forwards out there).

I doubt McKenzie has commited to anything, he will wait and see how Robbie fares v the Lions, as I reckon McKenzie would be a shoo-in for the job if Deans goes. I don't see them taking another non-Aussie coach, if they did only Jake White would be in the frame.

I hope you're not insinuating that I was implying a prop would be too 'dumb'.

I would like to see Ireland play a game based on inventive back play (a la what Schmidt has Leinster doing) and was merely inquiring as to whether people thought McKenzie would have the required knowledge given that he played as a forward.

Swiwi

PhatPiggins wrote: »

He's turned the Brumbies powder puff pack into a serious scrummaging unit, far worse options than him but he plays a fairly boring game.

He did with SA. But the Brumbies have been scoring fine tries this season. Regardless, whether SA or the Brumbies he has had success, which I guess should be the first criterion for a coach: proven track record, and the style is an optional extra...

Wexfordboy89

who can the Irfu afford to get????

Zyzz

George Hook or Jedward apparently..

Swiwi

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

I hope you're not insinuating that I was implying a prop would be too 'dumb'.

I would like to see Ireland play a game based on inventive back play (a la what Schmidt has Leinster doing) and was merely inquiring as to whether people thought McKenzie would have the required knowledge given that he played as a forward.

Not at all. I played in the backs, and as we all know forwards are more intelligent than backs, who are just show ponies.

McKenzie is a good coach, and the Reds have been hammered with injuries since their 2011 triumph, losing Genia & Horwill is a bit like Ireland without POC & BOD - it's just not the same!

Podge_irl

Where does this idea that the IRFU are broke come from? Even if they were it makes far more financial sense to spend a bit extra on a better coach given the potential benefits. I'm pretty sure they are sitting in quite a lot of cash reserves though.

jm08

Swiwi wrote: »

Really? I remember the Reds season that year for being the Will & Quade show. Have you got stats to back that statement up? I assume your not referring to conversions for all the tries they scored that year, in which case they might have kicked the most.

But I'm happy to stand corrected!

It was one of those end of season stat reports that I saw it in - can't find it now. It stayed in my mind because there was much discussion about Ireland kicking the ball away too much at the time.

I did find a stat though for the Super Rugby final in 2011 - the reds kicked 36 times from hand against the Crusaders (compared to Ireland making 26 kicks against England in the 6Ns the same year).

DeDoc

Swiwi wrote: »

I wouldn't put too much store on Tim's leaving cert being a deciding factor in Schmidt staying or going. No-one has the foggiest what a leaving cert is in NZ, so unless Joe is wanting Tim to show he can knuckle down to his studies, there will be little academic benefit to returning to NZ with "leaving cert" on his CV...maybe it is recognised by NZ universities though to gain entrance without a NZ school qualification, but I'd be a little surprised.

Quite the opposite actually
Universities around the world regularly communicate and share information about this sort of thing, so there are typical equivalencies for various national qualifications. His alternative would be leaving school here without any qualification and then either staying like that or trying to reintegrate into the NZ system for a year - which would put him at a huge disadvantage.

[Jackass]

fryup wrote: »

Matt Williams anyone??

i mean he wants to be irish anyway talking about "us" and "we" when refering to Ireland on Setanta

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I actually think Williams is a top coach. Maybe not as a soul head coach, but would have zero complaints with him being involved.

I know he had a terrible stint with Ulster, but much like Penney now, he was trying to get a team to play a style that didn't suit them. But with the right players, he can do a cracking job imo. Was very good at Leinster.

duckysauce

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

who can the Irfu afford to get????

steve staunton

Swiwi

[Jackass] wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I actually think Williams is a top coach. Maybe not as a soul head coach, but would have zero complaints with him being involved.

I know he had a terrible stint with Ulster, but much like Penney now, he was trying to get a team to play a style that didn't suit them. But with the right players, he can do a cracking job imo. Was very good at Leinster.

Trying to imagine the lads singin the blues. Not sure I'd have him as a sole head coach either.