Selling tax discs

rebel.ranter

demanufactured wrote: »

No its not legal.

Which law precisely makes selling expired tax discs illegal? Or is it just your opinion?

MarkR

Latest thing in Germany. All the young guys have Irish Style licence plates, with Irish Tax discs on the screen.

Kenny Logins

MarkR wrote: »

Latest thing in Germany. All the young guys have Irish Style licence plates, with Irish Tax discs on the screen.

Mondello stickers on the boot lid.

scamalert

always wondered how easy is to forge tax disc,as pointed out colors change every couple months,but having discs of couple years id say one could easily find one similar in color,then scan it,find correct shrift in Photoshop,erase background dates,print ,add text position and voila .
But risk it on the road,if the guards would be behind you straight away you would get, not only fine and points,but court and most likely huge fine,house raid,confiscation of pcs printer or even jail.So not worth it :cool:

CiniO

scamalert wrote: »

always wondered how easy is to forge tax disc,as pointed out colors change every couple months,but having discs of couple years id say one could easily find one similar in color,then scan it,find correct shrift in Photoshop,erase background dates,print ,add text position and voila .
But risk it on the road,if the guards would be behind you straight away you would get, not only fine and points,but court and most likely huge fine,house raid,confiscation of pcs printer or even jail.So not worth it :cool:

But while driving Irish car in UK, where Irish tax in not needed, but some Police officers might not be aware of this, having a properly forged tax disc might save a lots of hassle.

scamalert

CiniO wrote: »

But while driving Irish car in UK, where Irish tax in not needed, but some Police officers might not be aware of this, having a properly forged tax disc might save a lots of hassle.

smart.

Kenny Logins

scamalert wrote: »

always wondered how easy is to forge tax disc,as pointed out colors change every couple months,but having discs of couple years id say one could easily find one similar in color,then scan it,find correct shrift in Photoshop,erase background dates,print ,add text position and voila .
But risk it on the road,if the guards would be behind you straight away you would get, not only fine and points,but court and most likely huge fine,house raid,confiscation of pcs printer or even jail.So not worth it :cool:

I do know with bank notes there is a pattern embedded within the design that will lock up scanners, printers and even Photoshop. Could tax discs have the same protection...? I really don't know.

One way to find out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

MarkR

CiniO wrote: »

But while driving Irish car in UK, where Irish tax in not needed, but some Police officers might not be aware of this, having a properly forged tax disc might save a lots of hassle.

Your Irish Tax has to be up to date if driving an Irish registered vehicle. In the north anyway. Saw a news report on it, they were towing away the vehicles if I remember correctly.

scamalert

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I do know with bank notes there is a pattern embedded within the design that will lock up scanners, printers and even Photoshop. Could tax discs have the same protection...? I really don't know.

One way to find out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

last time i checked tax disc, it had water marks and small threads that shine under uv light and some shinny ink on some parts of text,maybe theres more under UV light never tried :rolleyes: ,
but,if one was to try to manufacture fake tax disc only small area would be needed to crop out,one number for example instead of having 03-13 making it 03-14 so by cropping out 3 one would need just to pick out small area and blank it out with same color and reprint on the top,even in the tax office they have tickets blank in the middle and once you say period that you are going to tax the car they print on to the blank ticket.
Security wise id say 5 euro note has twice as much security compared to tax disc.
but the risk involved getting caught with fake one isn't worth the cost ,even if abroad :cool: .

flutered

back in the day the label from a danno bottle, often came in handy.

CiniO

MarkR wrote: »

Your Irish Tax has to be up to date if driving an Irish registered vehicle. In the north anyway. Saw a news report on it, they were towing away the vehicles if I remember correctly.

We discussed it here many times, and no one ever was able to quote any UK regulations which would require foreign vehicles to be taxed in home country, when driven in UK.

I strongly believe they don't exist.
And fact that someone's vehicle was towed, doesn't confirm it was done legally.
Most likely owner could fight for his right in court in NI or UK.
But most likely it wouldn't be worth the hassle, as it's just cheaper to pay for towing and releasing the car, and probably even cheaper just to have your car taxed.

But it doesn't change a fact, that Irish motortax is not required in UK.

Gosub

Here in Spain a foreign registered car must be fully road legal in it's home country or there is a €300 fine. This includes tax, insurance and NCT (or DOE TUV etc.) Cars can also be confiscated.

That said... the amount of illegal foreign cars here (mostly British) is unreal! But they are now clamping down and a lot of British cars are now sporting nice new Spanish reg plates. The Spanish now need the money dontcha know.

CiniO

Gosub wrote: »

Here in Spain a foreign registered car must be fully road legal in it's home country or there is a €300 fine. This includes tax, insurance and NCT (or DOE TUV etc.) Cars can also be confiscated.

Could you quote any regulations stating those facts (especially about the tax) - can be in spanish.

That said... the amount of illegal foreign cars here (mostly British) is unreal!

What do you mean by illegal?
Without all paperwork from home country (tax, insurance, MOT), or just foreign registered driven by residents?

dilallio

Spotted a fiesta in Lidl carpark in Galway January last year with 12-03.
It was a different colour also, but would be perfect if stopped by a dyslexic, colour-blind Guard.

Gosub

CiniO wrote: »

Could you quote any regulations stating those facts (especially about the tax) - can be in spanish.



What do you mean by illegal?
Without all paperwork from home country (tax, insurance, MOT), or just foreign registered driven by residents?

http://www.andalucia.com/living/vehicles_foreignplates.htm

This is a site that advises, mainly UK, expats on their legal requirements in Spain, among other things. Spanish official bodies are not big on having legislation easily accessable online, unlike Ireland, but I'm sure the actual law is online somewhere. All I know is that fines are being handed out locally and foreign car owners are being pressured to re-register on Spanish plates or lose the car. The Guardia Civil started to clamp down about a year ago. However, I'm not convinced that the they're too well up on what paperwork should be displayed in each European country.

By Illegal, I mean.... well, all of the above, really. No tax, no insurance, no test, in the country for years, etc. There is one beautiful BMW 850 CSI that has been here for at least 12 years... reg HOT 52.

scamalert

isn't there a law in EU that allows car in the country only for 3 months including insurance ? Especially if its not left/or right hand drive depending on country you stay or visit ?

Gosub

scamalert wrote: »

isn't there a law in EU that allows car in the country only for 3 months including insurance ? Especially if its not left/or right hand drive depending on country you stay or visit ?

The regulations in Spain are: you can have a foreign plated car in the country for up to 182 days in any 12 months. If you intend to import it, (yes there is an import tax here) you have two months to start the paperwork. The process must be complete within six months. The car must be road legal at all times, either in Spain or in the country of registartion.

Source: I've imported three vehicles into Spain, two from Germany and one from Ireland.:D

CiniO

Gosub wrote: »

http://www.andalucia.com/living/vehicles_foreignplates.htm

This is a site that advises, mainly UK, expats on their legal requirements in Spain, among other things. Spanish official bodies are not big on having legislation easily accessable online, unlike Ireland, but I'm sure the actual law is online somewhere. All I know is that fines are being handed out locally and foreign car owners are being pressured to re-register on Spanish plates or lose the car. The Guardia Civil started to clamp down about a year ago. However, I'm not convinced that the they're too well up on what paperwork should be displayed in each European country.

By Illegal, I mean.... well, all of the above, really. No tax, no insurance, no test, in the country for years, etc. There is one beautiful BMW 850 CSI that has been here for at least 12 years... reg HOT 52.

Indeed in article there is a statement:

Spanish Law permits a foreign car to drive on Spanish roads as long as the car is road legal in its own country.

But it's just an article.

What they mean "road legal" is that car is registered in home country and has got insurance and valid test cert. There are certain provision to be fulfilled for cars in international traffic, and it's outlined in Vienna convention on road traffic from 1968. Additional requirement (like valid test) are regulated by EU directives.
But nowhere is mentioned that cars must be taxed in home country.
That's entirely revenue thing, and has nothing to do with road traffic and accepting vehicles abroad or not.

CiniO

scamalert wrote: »

isn't there a law in EU that allows car in the country only for 3 months including insurance ? Especially if its not left/or right hand drive depending on country you stay or visit ?

No.
Many countries have no limitations at all in regards how long a foreign vehicle can drive there, as long it is insured and tested.

Gosub

CiniO wrote: »

Indeed in article there is a statement:

But it's just an article.

What they mean "road legal" is that car is registered in home country and has got insurance and valid test cert. There are certain provision to be fulfilled for cars in international traffic, and it's outlined in Vienna convention on road traffic from 1968. Additional requirement (like valid test) are regulated by EU directives.
But nowhere is mentioned that cars must be taxed in home country.
That's entirely revenue thing, and has nothing to do with road traffic and accepting vehicles abroad or not.

So, is a car road legal in Ireland if it isn't taxed?

The cops here seem to think that tax is required. This from the lips of a member of the Guardia... but I will admit that he was a bit drunkie at the time. I will further admit to some blame for him being in that state, yer honour.

CiniO

Gosub wrote: »

So, is a car road legal in Ireland if it isn't taxed?

From "Road traffic act" and "Road traffic regulations" point of view - yes.
Car is legal when it's insured and NCTed.

It's the "Finance act" which required vehicles to be taxed when used on "public roads in Ireland".

The cops here seem to think that tax is required.

Because it is required when someone is using Irish registered vehicle on public road in Ireland. And garda are fully empowered to enforce it.

This from the lips of a member of the Guardia... but I will admit that he was a bit drunkie at the time. I will further admit to some blame for him being in that state, yer honour.

No foreign authority will look for if Irish registered car fulfils requirement of Irish finance Act.
If car is registered (holds a number plate and registration documents), had insurance and valid test, it's all what's needed to travel abroad.

Gosub

CiniO wrote: »

From "Road traffic act" and "Road traffic regulations" point of view - yes.
Car is legal when it's insured and NCTed.

It's the "Finance act" which required vehicles to be taxed when used on "public roads in Ireland".


Because it is required when someone is using Irish registered vehicle on public road in Ireland. And garda are fully empowered to enforce it.






No foreign authority will look for if Irish registered car fulfils requirement of Irish finance Act.
If car is registered (holds a number plate and registration documents), had insurance and valid test, it's all what's needed to travel abroad.

Just got a text back from my drunkie friend. It seems you're right, no tax is required. However he did say that if the car is UK plated and doesn't have a tax disc, he will find some reason to impose a fine or lift the car. He's not a big fan of UK registered cars. I'm paraphrasing, of course...quoting his broken English here would probably get me permabanned.

CiniO

Gosub wrote: »

Just got a text back from my drunkie friend. It seems you're right, no tax is required. However he did say that if the car is UK plated and doesn't have a tax disc, he will find some reason to impose a fine or lift the car. He's not a big fan of UK registered cars. I'm paraphrasing, of course...quoting his broken English here would probably get me permabanned.

Heh surely if he wants to find something he will.
That's not a problem for any police force in any country