Paying to keep a case out of newspaper

Going Forward

I was told by a friend that he paid to keep his traffic offence out of the local newspaper about 25 years ago.

I never knew it could be done . Does this practice still exist?

mickdw

Going Forward wrote: »

I was told by a friend that he paid to keep his traffic offence out of the local newspaper about 25 years ago.

I never knew it could be done . Does this practice still exist?

Its very possible if you are in any way connected but I dont know about paying.
You could probably pay to make the offence go away though.

ResearchWill

Going Forward wrote: »

I was told by a friend that he paid to keep his traffic offence out of the local newspaper about 25 years ago.

I never knew it could be done . Does this practice still exist?

Sounds more like a bribe, wink wink, nudge nudge here's a brown envelope.

Going Forward

The discussion was spurred by the fining of a local "entrepeneur" in court recently.

Local papers carried details of ALL the other cases bar his one, for no motor insurance. He is a bus operator, and money is no object......

ResearchWill

Going Forward wrote: »

The discussion was spurred by the fining of a local "entrepeneur" in court recently.

Local papers carried details of ALL the other cases bar his one, for no motor insurance. He is a bus operator, and money is no object......

He more than likely advertises with said paper. In any event being a local issue I imagine everyone knew who he was. I would assume if he paid to keep it out of the paper then there would have been no mention of it at all.

Going Forward

ResearchWill wrote: »

He more than likely advertises with said paper. In any event being a local issue I imagine everyone knew who he was. I would assume if he paid to keep it out of the paper then there would have been no mention of it at all.

There was no mention in either local newspaper, the only reason anyone knows about it is one of his drivers spilled the beans!

ResearchWill

Going Forward wrote: »

There was no mention in either local newspaper, the only reason anyone knows about it is one of his drivers spilled the beans!

I misunderstood your post.

coylemj

When a prominent person gets a court case kept out of the local paper it's usually a hollow victory because the absence of the court case in the paper usually generates more talk than if the case had been reported i.e. the tactic is totally self-defeating.

The court staff, the Gardai and all the local solicitors are there to see what's going on so it's not like it's not going to leak out.

It also means that malicious gossip rather than an accurate report of the court proceedings will gain currency in the locality so the individual won't get his side of the story into the public domain as would be the case if the newspaper printed a report prepared by a court reporter or local journo. It really is a stupid and short-sighted tactic to attempt to bury a court case by having it not reported in the local paper.

Agree with Researchwill, he probably advertises in the paper so is flexing his financial muscle.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Peregrinus

Going Forward wrote: »

I was told by a friend that he paid to keep his traffic offence out of the local newspaper about 25 years ago.

I never knew it could be done . Does this practice still exist?

It's corrupt, obviously, but corruption happens.

As to whether it happens often, I suspect not that often in the form of an actual, explicit cash bribe. Probably it more often takes the form of favours done, influence exerted, quiet words that advertising revenues might be affected, etc, etc.

Going Forward

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's corrupt, obviously, but corruption happens.

As to whether it happens often, I suspect not that often in the form of an actual, explicit cash bribe. Probably it more often takes the form of favours done, influence exerted, quiet words that advertising revenues might be affected, etc, etc.

In my friends case his solicitor just asked him outright if he wanted it kept out of the papers for a fee.
Not a businessman, private individual, so lost advertising revenues were not an issue with that one.

In the other case, the defendant would be locally `connected' to an extent, but advertising revenue to the papers would be negligible.

But the reporting of the case would probably have been damaging to his business and I suspect a payment was made to ensure it wasnt published.

jimmycrackcorm

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's corrupt, obviously, but corruption happens.

As to whether it happens often, I suspect not that often in the form of an actual, explicit cash bribe. Probably it more often takes the form of favours done, influence exerted, quiet words that advertising revenues might be affected, etc, etc.

How is it corrupt? There is no requirement for a newspaper to report any cases. Newspapers choose and pick what stories they want to report and what they report has nothing to do with the judicial process unless a judge requires something to be published such as a retraction.

Also I note some newspapers give extra coverage to their advertisers. The mistake is in thinking that newspapers are something to do with the upholding of law when in fact they are there to make money

Peregrinus

"Corrupt" does not necessarily mean "illegal". (Though in fact in this case there may well be a breach of legal obligations.)

Ask yourself this question. Would the reporter who accepts a bung to "lose" his notes about a particular case be happy to tell his editor that he has done so? Would he expect this to advance his career, or to cost him his job? Or, if it's the editor who is on the take for suppressing stories, do you think he'd be happy to tell the board of the publishing company that he is doing this?

Journalism - hard to believe, but it's true - journalism has its professional ethics, and accepting bribes to suppress stories embarrassing to the persons named in them is contrary to those ethics. Solicitity money to do something which you know to be wrong is corrupt.

Going Forward

Peregrinus wrote: »

"Corrupt" does not necessarily mean "illegal". (Though in fact in this case there may well be a breach of legal obligations.)

Ask yourself this question. Would the reporter who accepts a bung to "lose" his notes about a particular case be happy to tell his editor that he has done so? Would he expect this to advance his career, or to cost him his job? Or, if it's the editor who is on the take for suppressing stories, do you think he'd be happy to tell the board of the publishing company that he is doing this?

Journalism - hard to believe, but it's true - journalism has its professional ethics, and accepting bribes to suppress stories embarrassing to the persons named in them is contrary to those ethics. Solicitity money to do something which you know to be wrong is corrupt.

It clearly shows the power and partisan nature of press coverage at a very local level.

One's 'punishment' apart from fines etc. is generally accepted to be the publication of one's errors and the reputational damage that that causes.

Its obvious that some arrangement was made in this case as the court reports for that day were covered by two competing local papers in fair detail and both left the case out.

I dont think most people know that this can be arranged at all and would be uncomfortable with the idea.

Yes there is no requirement to publish ANY cases, but something is amiss if papers can be bought off like this.

Grolschevik

Going Forward wrote: »

Yes there is no requirement to publish ANY cases, but something is amiss if papers can be bought off like this.

Just to also point out that many papers' subeditors will cut copy from the bottom up if it's too long. If a case is heard late in the day, its report might fall victim to this.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Corkbah

Going Forward wrote: »

In my friends case his solicitor just asked him outright if he wanted it kept out of the papers for a fee.
Not a businessman, private individual, so lost advertising revenues were not an issue with that one.

In the other case, the defendant would be locally `connected' to an extent, but advertising revenue to the papers would be negligible.

But the reporting of the case would probably have been damaging to his business and I suspect a payment was made to ensure it wasnt published.

Sounds to me like your friends solicitor is the one tipping off the local media !! or possibly even writing stories for the local media.

Court reporters will report the facts of a case if it is heard in open court, chances are if your friend is a private individual then its possible that there was little or no public interest in the story, or maybe there was no court reporter in court at the time, not all court cases are reported on, not all court cases have a public interest.

coylemj

Corkbah wrote: »

Sounds to me like your friends solicitor is the one tipping off the local media !! or possibly even writing stories for the local media.

Court reporters will report the facts of a case if it is heard in open court, chances are if your friend is a private individual then its possible that there was little or no public interest in the story, or maybe there was no court reporter in court at the time, not all court cases are reported on, not all court cases have a public interest.

District Court cases fill lots of column inches in provincial newspapers, it's grist to the mill for local gossip, the material costs very little to gather beyond the salary of a junior reporter and you're immune from a defamation case provided you stick to the facts as outlined in evidence and legal submissions. I suspect there is always a local reporter present for the criminal list in small and medium size towns when the District Court is sitting.

In the Dublin courts the volume of cases means that you'd expect the odd case to slip through the cracks but I've always suspected that there are people among the court staff or the Gardai who scan the lists and tip off the Herald and other tabloids when a celebrity person of note is up on a summons.

Fred Swanson

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moon_man

Going Forward wrote: »

I was told by a friend that he paid to keep his traffic offence out of the local newspaper about 25 years ago.

I never knew it could be done . Does this practice still exist?

offically no , off the record , it can be done , a neighbour of mine hit a car while drunk, had the guards chasing him for ten mile yet it was kept off the paper , he was good friends with a td who was in office at the time , that was more than a decade ago

the editor of any paper will vehemently deny it happens but they are lieing

moon_man

coylemj wrote: »

When a prominent person gets a court case kept out of the local paper it's usually a hollow victory because the absence of the court case in the paper usually generates more talk than if the case had been reported i.e. the tactic is totally self-defeating.

The court staff, the Gardai and all the local solicitors are there to see what's going on so it's not like it's not going to leak out.

It also means that malicious gossip rather than an accurate report of the court proceedings will gain currency in the locality so the individual won't get his side of the story into the public domain as would be the case if the newspaper printed a report prepared by a court reporter or local journo. It really is a stupid and short-sighted tactic to attempt to bury a court case by having it not reported in the local paper.

Agree with Researchwill, he probably advertises in the paper so is flexing his financial muscle.

you make it sound like the newspaper report will provide context and backround detail in a report , the bullett points of the story will be published , many cases you read about in the local papers give but a shallow description of what really happened

coylemj

moon_man wrote: »

you make it sound like the newspaper report will provide context and backround detail in a report , the bullett points of the story will be published , many cases you read about in the local papers give but a shallow description of what really happened

I simply meant that the gist of the defence will usually be quoted, nothing more.

studdlymurphy

I had a case kept out of the paper years ago. Just called the paper and they didnt run it, simple.

kingtut

Where do the papers get the information from anyway ? Surely anyone going to court has a right to keep it private no ?

coylemj

kingtut wrote: »

Where do the papers get the information from anyway ? Surely anyone going to court has a right to keep it private no ?

No, unless the case is heard in camera, it's open to the public and the press and TV have absolute privilege (from an action for defamation) when reporting the case provided they stick to an accurate account of the proceedings.

There is no absolute right to privacy when you go to court, the proceedings are required under the constitution to be heard in public except for stated exceptions which these days include family law cases and cases where commercially sensitive data may be heard in evidence.

Bunreacht na hEireann 34.1

Justice shall be administered in courts established by law by judges appointed in the manner provided by this Constitution, and, save in such special and limited cases as may be prescribed by law, shall be administered in public.

ResearchWill

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

How is it corrupt? There is no requirement for a newspaper to report any cases. Newspapers choose and pick what stories they want to report and what they report has nothing to do with the judicial process unless a judge requires something to be published such as a retraction.

Also I note some newspapers give extra coverage to their advertisers. The mistake is in thinking that newspapers are something to do with the upholding of law when in fact they are there to make money

If a person pays money to stop reporting of certain facts not only may it be corrupt, it may be criminal

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0043.html#sec43


Corruption is not defined in the act.

ResearchWill

kingtut wrote: »

Where do the papers get the information from anyway ? Surely anyone going to court has a right to keep it private no ?

No. You have hear of the constitution here is an important quote.

Article 34
1. Justice shall be administered in courts established by law by judges appointed in the manner provided by this Constitution, and, save in such special and limited cases as may be prescribed by law, shall be administered in public.

coylemj

ResearchWill wrote: »

If a person pays money to stop reporting of certain facts not only may it be corrupt, it may be criminal

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0043.html#sec43


Corruption is not defined in the act.

Impossible to prove. The reporter can just say that there was 20 criminal cases that day and he only bothered to type up five of them when he went back to the office, or the editor can say he made the decision to only run with five cases in that edition of the paper.

ResearchWill

coylemj wrote: »

Impossible to prove. The reporter can just say that there was 20 criminal cases that day and he only bothered to type up five of them when he went back to the office, or the editor can say he made the decision to only run with five cases in that edition of the paper.

Many criminal cases are impossible to prove, yet defendants give statments every day. BTW my comment was in response to a specific statment, a matter may not be proved but still illegal. Example I kill someone there is no evidence it is still murder.

michael999999

Something along these veins happened recently. A prominent sportsperson appeared in court on serious driving charges.

Local papers reported it in a small section half way through the paper, misspelt he's second name even though its one of the most famous in the country. And never mentioned that he was a national sporting icon in he's sport.

If you read the piece you would think they were talking about joe anonymous.

Going Forward

Grolschevik wrote: »

Just to also point out that many papers' subeditors will cut copy from the bottom up if it's too long. If a case is heard late in the day, its report might fall victim to this.

AFAIK this was one of the first of the day, maybe too early for both reporters!!!!

Crooked Jack

Id be careful about that. any time anyone rings our paper to keep stories out we make a point of putting them somewhere prominent.

coylemj

michael999999 wrote: »

Something along these veins happened recently. A prominent sportsperson appeared in court on serious driving charges.

Local papers reported it in a small section half way through the paper, misspelt he's second name even though its one of the most famous in the country. And never mentioned that he was a national sporting icon in he's sport.

If you read the piece you would think they were talking about joe anonymous.

Some cases never even make it to court. Many years ago a prominent person in a national sports organisation had an alcoholic wife who regularly wrapped her car around lamp posts. When the Gardai arrived on the scene and discovered who she was, they typically drove her home in the patrol car and the husband got the car removed the following day. There was never a court case, let alone an account of the incident in the papers.

jd80

It is not just what is said in 'open court' that makes it into the papers.

The courts Service prints off a list of all the cases including name, address, age, charge (as recorded on charge sheet)

If you ever attend court, you will notice that apart from the name and charge the other details are usually not mentioned (though charge is not mentioned on procedural dates)

This is NOT the 'normal' list of cases, which is usually available in the court on the day - they show only name, prosecuting Garda, no. of offences

Heaven forbid the court reporter should actually have to strain her ears or do any investigations herself.

jimmycrackcorm

ResearchWill wrote: »

If a person pays money to stop reporting of certain facts not only may it be corrupt, it may be criminal

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0043.html#sec43


Corruption is not defined in the act.

Don't see anything there of relevance. Newspapers can choose what to print.

ResearchWill

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Don't see anything there of relevance. Newspapers can choose what to print.

Of course they can, but if a editor or a journalist accept a payment so as to refrain from doing an act that maybe corruption.

Johnny Utah

jd80 wrote: »

It is not just what is said in 'open court' that makes it into the papers.

The courts Service prints off a list of all the cases including name, address, age, charge (as recorded on charge sheet)

If you ever attend court, you will notice that apart from the name and charge the other details are usually not mentioned (though charge is not mentioned on procedural dates)

This is NOT the 'normal' list of cases, which is usually available in the court on the day - they show only name, prosecuting Garda, no. of offences

Heaven forbid the court reporter should actually have to strain her ears or do any investigations herself.

Is a court reporter legally entitled to have access to this sheet printed by the Courts Service?

jd80

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Is a court reporter legally entitled to have access to this sheet printed by the Courts Service?

Good question.

I put this to the Data Commissioner - though not as a formal complaint.

The response I received was as follows

"As previously advised, information contained in a charge sheet as to the
identity of an accused may be expected to be made public in the course of
criminal proceedings, such proceedings being required by law to be
administered in public.

As it is the intention that such information be made public we do no
consider that there is a data protection matter to be investigated."

I do not consider it correct though.

It is one thing to report it if it is said in open court

It is another for the media or anyone to be facilitated with this data (which comes from the charge sheets) in extended form as stated in my previous post #34.

opinions?

Fred Swanson

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jd80

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, you cannot

Get your local paper. Pick a name from a Court report of someone who was in court the previous week

Ring the Courts Service with that name and ask for age, address and charge details

You will not receive them.

The 'list' you may be referring to is the short list, which is printed out and available in the Courtroom on the day but it 'only' shows name, prosecuting Gaurd and no of offences or similar.

It is printed out to give those present an idea when the case will come up whereby (and is this contravening Data protection?) solicitors receive this list usually the day before per e-mail
Is this what you mean?

Fred Swanson

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