Can my boss force me to go outside in the rain?

WhatNowForUs?

What is with a load of people in this country. We're raising a bunch of pu**ies. Rain is water we drink the stuff. It does not make us sick. Viruses make us sick.
People open the windows on the buses when it raining / cold and we will see allot less sickness.
Air needs to circulate.
Fresh air is good.
Get out and don't be so precious.

jkrowling

Unless you're a disprin and will dissolve when wet you aint got a leg to stand on!

tatli_lokma

I think more likely the rain is an excuse not to attend boring meetings! What excuse will there be on bright sunny days???

Irish_Elect_Eng

My contract states that I can be asked to work at any branch of our company, worldwide. I doubt that they would pay for my sunscreen in California :-)

We had a similar issue with staff walking between two buildings <1 min apart.
Employees complained about having to buy their own rain gear,so the company provided gear for them, bright yellow because the EH&S manager put her oar in, and made it mandatory to wear the gear at all time when moving between the buildings. After a couple of weeks they wished that they had not asked.

therewillbe

ellybabes wrote: »

It's not as simple as buying an umbrella, even with that my trousers get soaked walking across.

I do plan most of my days so that I group my meetings into one end of the campus or another, and head out well in advance when there's a break in the showers, but today the rain / snow didn't let up for 2 hours straight.

Today's meeting is a "mandatory" one for my team, and when I expressed that I didn't want to go outside in the current weather, I was told I had no choice.

Get your butt down to a queue outside a dole office in the rain!

looksee

I spent the last 8 years working in a place where the only way to anywhere else was to go outside, in any weather. This generally happened every hour. In fact, although we get a lot of rain, it is really not very often heavy and persistent. A brolly, a coat, waiting a couple of minutes for the worst to be over sorted pretty well every situation. I think on the scale of issues with jobs, this is a non-issue.

Mrs OBumble

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

The legal position is you have to work in the Offices they provide, and be prepared to travel to other offices of the company across the country and world within reason if your job demands it.

I doubt that having to relocate to anywhere in the world would be legal.

But there is a reasonable-ness test somewhere in there. I've seen posts from people being transferred from one side of Dublin to the other, asking if the employer is allowed to do that. The general consensus was that it is legal provided the new and old locations are within Xkms of each other. (Maybe 50kms ... I'm not sure if there's anything in that figure, though, or if I'm just making it up.) On that basis, I'm picking that a five-minute walk would be a problem.

OP, do you have any possible solutions? If everyone else had to come to your building, the problem would be the same, they would get wet instead of you. So - is there a reasonable way that everyone who ever has to meet face to face can be in the same building? This may be a more productive line of thinking than the "you can't make me" approach.

And while I agree that there can be short periods of torrential rain in the summer monsoon season (I'm not kidding, it's happened each summer that I've been in the country!) .... the rain lasts for minutes, not forever. Time your journeys and you'll hardly ever get wet. (I work on an industrial estate, now about 10 mins walk from the bus-stop. I don't own a car. And I've only got soaked once in five years, due to a combination of a common sense, umbrella use, taxis, and a little but of luck.

PizzamanIRL

Get a grip its only a bit of bad weather. Prepare yourself and wrap up well. Asking after hours was a good start.

PizzamanIRL

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Get a grip its only a bit of bad weather. Prepare yourself and wrap up well. Asking after hours was a good start.

Dude, shhhh, you're not in after hours!

Eoin

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But there is a reasonable-ness test somewhere in there. I've seen posts from people being transferred from one side of Dublin to the other, asking if the employer is allowed to do that. The general consensus was that it is legal provided the new and old locations are within Xkms of each other. (Maybe 50kms ... I'm not sure if there's anything in that figure, though, or if I'm just making it up.) On that basis, I'm picking that a five-minute walk would be a problem.

There's no figure set out in law, last time I had a look - but that applies to relocation, not "travelling" as part of work which is more what this is about.

It'd be a sad day for common sense if this sort of thing had to be spelt out in law IMO.

ellybabes - I suppose you could go through your contract with a fine tooth-comb and get legal advice about making a stand if there's nothing there about "carrying out other duties as requested" etc. But I think you should let common sense prevail and have some sort of basic protection against the rain if you need to walk for a few minutes.

ResearchWill

ellybabes wrote: »

Not part of the question I am asking, not relevant to the discussion.

Well in your OP you stated "Driving is not realistic, as by the time I've walked to my car, I'm half way there" so in fact if it is raining when you arrive or leave work you have half the journey to complete to get to work or car. So I don't understand the issue you have.

ResearchWill

ellybabes wrote: »

The car is 3-4 mins walk away. If it's pissing down, I stay late in work instead of walking in the rain. In the mornings, the car is 30 secs away from my house, and if it's raining (not drizzling, but raining), then I wait in the car for it to stop before heading into the office.

What if it does not stop raining, this is Ireland.

Sacksian

ellybabes wrote: »

I am a permanent employee and my contracts were signed well before this new building existed. Do I have any rights to refuse to go outside when it's lashing down / snowing?

As far as I know, under European Council Directive 2000/78/EC of 27 November 2000 establishing a general framework for equal treatment in employment and occupation, you have an absolute legal right to (or a reasonable expectation of) "one-out all-out rain refusal", whereby you can refuse to go outside when it's raining or snowing, unless all employees are forced to go out - in which case, you will have to suck it up. I understand there's a legal loophole whereby this does not apply in cases of sleet or drizzle.

Can't remember the specific legislation, so might be mistaken.

Cedrus

I have to go out several times a day, and sometimes stay out, in whatever the weather is. The campus I work on is about 3km x 2.5km, it can take 25 minutes to get from the northernmost building to the store at the south end. Meetings, canteen, photocopier, colour printer and toilets are all in different buildings to me. My employer provides raingear but the weather is rarely bad enough (even in Ireland) to wear the overtrousers, the coat is warm and effective at this time of year but is a misery on warm wet summer days.

The worst of days doing all of this, is a million times better than the one day a month I had to queue for hours outside the Department of Social Protection.

You may have a case to get your employer to provide Personal Protective Equipment, but without a definite medical condition, I doubt that you have any grounds to refuse to move between buildings on company time when you are able to do it on your own time.

Cedrus

Sacksian wrote: »

As far as I know, under European Council Directive 2000/78/EC of 27 November 2000 establishing a general framework for equal treatment in employment and occupation, you have an absolute legal right to (or a reasonable expectation of) "one-out all-out rain refusal", whereby you can refuse to go outside when it's raining or snowing, unless all employees are forced to go out - in which case, you will have to suck it up. I understand there's a legal loophole whereby this does not apply in cases of sleet or drizzle.

Can't remember the specific legislation, so might be mistaken.

I can't see anything in that directive

ballsymchugh

it's times like this that i wonder if everyone was technically self employed, would there be a better workforce, where you only got paid for the work that you did.
ie, waiting for rain to stop would mean losing out.

solas111

ellybabes wrote: »

I work on a very large campus, where all the office buildings, except one, are joined by internal corridors. I have recently been moved to the one building not joined to the others, that is a 5-7 min walk away from the rest. My manager is insisting on me going from this building to the others for specific meetings, even in the most inclement weather. Driving is not realistic, as by the time I've walked to my car, I'm half way there, and there's no guarantee of parking near the other building.

I am a permanent employee and my contracts were signed well before this new building existed. Do I have any rights to refuse to go outside when it's lashing down / snowing?

I have not read all of the posts here so apologies if I am repeating what someone else has said.

In my opinion this boils down to what can be reasonably be expected of you. Your boss is obliged to provide you with safe working conditions and the equipment to do the job. This may mean providing suitable protective clothing so that you can get from one place to another without getting wet.

It would be reasonable of your boss to expect you to get to and from this building as required, providing that suitable personal protective equipment is provided for that purpose. If you have a medical condition that makes it difficult or dangerous for you to carry out the required duties perhaps you could discuss that calmly with your boss, providing proof by way of a letter from the doctor if necessary. If this is a major problem to you I am sure that some solution can be found, providing that there is willingness on both sides.

In these days of high unemployment it is good to have a job and while it would be wrong to let people walk all over you, it is no harm to compromise a little. Calm talking, without reference to who is right or wrong should yield positive results.

chris85

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I doubt that having to relocate to anywhere in the world would be legal.

But there is a reasonable-ness test somewhere in there. I've seen posts from people being transferred from one side of Dublin to the other, asking if the employer is allowed to do that. The general consensus was that it is legal provided the new and old locations are within Xkms of each other. (Maybe 50kms ... I'm not sure if there's anything in that figure, though, or if I'm just making it up.) On that basis, I'm picking that a five-minute walk would be a problem.

OP, do you have any possible solutions? If everyone else had to come to your building, the problem would be the same, they would get wet instead of you. So - is there a reasonable way that everyone who ever has to meet face to face can be in the same building? This may be a more productive line of thinking than the "you can't make me" approach.

And while I agree that there can be short periods of torrential rain in the summer monsoon season (I'm not kidding, it's happened each summer that I've been in the country!) .... the rain lasts for minutes, not forever. Time your journeys and you'll hardly ever get wet. (I work on an industrial estate, now about 10 mins walk from the bus-stop. I don't own a car. And I've only got soaked once in five years, due to a combination of a common sense, umbrella use, taxis, and a little but of luck.

Some multinationals state you may be asked to move to any of their offices in the world. They generally pay all your expenses when away so all is covered on that front. I view it has good experience to get to live abroad with work.

As for the OP, get a umbrella and you will be grand. I dont see how a short 3 minute walk in the rain makes you stay late in work waiting for the rain to stop. Invest in a big umbrella which is big and sturdy. Worth the money. WIll keep you dry.

Bob the Builder

Avasa wrote: »

Buy an umbrella...

And then bill the company for it...

NIMAN wrote: »

There's about 430,000 people who would love to swap places with you and get a good soaking if they could get a permanent job out of it.

No there's not. Just because there's 430,000 on jobseekers allowance, it doesn't mean there's 430,000 looking for a job.

D1stant

I think you have a definite case. There is no mention of this building in your contract and forcing you to commute between buildings to mandatory meetings in the rain is a health and safety issue. If you are as specialised as you maintain - they will have to compromise. I would advise that you consult with your union if you have one and talk to a good employment lawyer







Or else leave the public service and see what life is like in the real world

ballsymchugh

Bob the Builder wrote: »

And then bill the company for it...

No there's not. Just because there's 430,000 on jobseekers allowance, it doesn't mean there's 430,000 looking for a job.

if she bills the company, then it would need to stay in the offices while she runs through the rain to the car on the way home.

Mrs OBumble

Bob the Builder wrote: »

No there's not. Just because there's 430,000 on jobseekers allowance, it doesn't mean there's 430,000 looking for a job.

Yawn. That's because lots of unemployed people have partners who are working and earning too much for them to qualify for JSA.

So actually there are more than 430,000 people looking for a job. No one knows quite how many more.

But that's not what this thread is about.

So, 10 years of problems relating to the amount of sick leave taken, and now a refusal to walk to another building when it's raining. Also, you can happily stay in the car in the morning until it stops raining...

Has to be in the Public Service? Possibly some sort of admin work? I can't imagine that kind of attitude going over anywhere other than somewhere incompetence is protected. What an embarrassing way to earn a living.

ballsymchugh

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yawn. That's because lots of unemployed people have partners who are working and earning too much for them to qualify for JSA.

So actually there are more than 430,000 people looking for a job. No one knows quite how many more.

But that's not what this thread is about.

don't forget people who left the country who'd jump at the chance to come home!

satstheway

I get wet when it rains boo hoo.
I better not go out in the sun in case I get too hot.
fluf my life

monkeypants

Get a big umbrella, preferably a large, golf one and give yourself an extra couple of minutes after the walk to dry off if still needed. Problem solved.

Wanderer2010

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Has to be in the Public Service? Possibly some sort of admin work? I can't imagine that kind of attitude going over anywhere other than somewhere incompetence is protected. What an embarrassing way to earn a living.

Not really, mate. I work in the private sector and I work with some of the most precious, lazy and entitlement-riddled employees you could imagine. The merest sniff or cough and they are out sick for 2 weeks at a time, the women refuse to do work which involves bending down to pick up rubbish or lean forward when filing. It would actually shock you to see how much sick leave these people take and I blame this on poor management in my case. Its an old cliche that its only the Public Service that contain deadwood looking to get the most benefits for the least work, plenty like that in private sector.

marknine

ellybabes wrote: »

I work on a very large campus, where all the office buildings, except one, are joined by internal corridors. I have recently been moved to the one building not joined to the others, that is a 5-7 min walk away from the rest. My manager is insisting on me going from this building to the others for specific meetings, even in the most inclement weather. Driving is not realistic, as by the time I've walked to my car, I'm half way there, and there's no guarantee of parking near the other building.

I am a permanent employee and my contracts were signed well before this new building existed. Do I have any rights to refuse to go outside when it's lashing down / snowing?

OMG I just cant believe that some one would moan about such a small thing. Wear a hat or a coat. Mind you, I kind of get the feeling that there are other work issues going on in the back ground, like bullying or unfairness from the manager. Would I be correct?

Mrs OBumble

This is a moderator reminder to please keep your posts civil.

You don't have to agree or sympathize with the OP, but you do need to be polite to him/her. Ideally offer constructive advice or perspectives.

And refrain from the "public sector" jibes. They're not helpful, and there are both waster and workers on both sides of the fence. Public sector workers face different challenges that private sector workers sometimes don't appreciate (eg having to deal with all clients, no matter how difficult/dangerous).

Whiplashy

The car park where I work is about a 5 min walk from the entrance. By your logic any morning it's raining my boss couldn't possibly expect me to get out of the car. I must try ringing the office the next morning it happens to see what I'm told. I would imagine I'd be told to go back home and wait for my P45 in the post!