Drilling above sockets

TouchingVirus

You could possibly use a small strip of metal as a bracket. Make it long enough to straddle the chase, small enough to fit under the clock. Paint it black. Screw it to the wall on both sides of the chase. Drill a hole in the bracket, put in a screw, hang the clock off that.

karlitob

TouchingVirus wrote: »

You could possibly use a small strip of metal as a bracket. Make it long enough to straddle the chase, small enough to fit under the clock. Paint it black. Screw it to the wall on both sides of the chase. Drill a hole in the bracket, put in a screw, hang the clock off that.

Thats actually a great idea - thanks very much for the input - I knew it would be a problem when we bought the clock but sure we loved it.

Cheers

2 stroke

Karlitob. I symphatise, but have no advice to offer on drilling, other than you can not always trust cable detectors to pinpoint a cable exactly. In my job I regularly have to drill near electrics but I refuse to drill within 2 inches of an indicated cable without taking extra precautions, including the client accepting responsibility for rewiring if necessary
It's about time that there were rules restricting where electricians and plumbers run services. I regularly see services run through ideal places to hang pictures, clocks, mirrors, curtain poles, ect. In this case it's power cables centered on a 1800 wall, in another house they're centered in the alcoves beside the chimney or within 1 foot of windows or doors. Personally I think most power cables should be within 1 foot of a corner, and the remainder never centered on a wall.

karlitob

2 stroke wrote: »

Karlitob. I symphatise, but have no advice to offer on drilling, other than you can not always trust cable detectors to pinpoint a cable exactly. In my job I regularly have to drill near electrics but I refuse to drill within 2 inches of an indicated cable without taking extra precautions, including the client accepting responsibility for rewiring if necessary
It's about time that there were rules restricting where electricians and plumbers run services. I regularly see services run through ideal places to hang pictures, clocks, mirrors, curtain poles, ect. In this case it's power cables centered on a 1800 wall, in another house they're centered in the alcoves beside the chimney or within 1 foot of windows or doors. Personally I think most power cables should be within 1 foot of a corner, and the remainder never centered on a wall.

Hi thanks for the comment - my next problem would be the cables centred in our alcove for both shelving and tv brackets etc. It does seem to be like a silly thing not to have a set structure but im only learning. I took lots of pics but probably not enough to fully determine where all cables etc are. Hindsight is great.

Thanks again.

karlitob

karlitob wrote: »

Hi thanks for the comment - my next problem would be the cables centred in our alcove for both shelving and tv brackets etc. It does seem to be like a silly thing not to have a set structure but im only learning. I took lots of pics but probably not enough to fully determine where all cables etc are. Hindsight is great.

Thanks again.

Hi there,

I actually found a picture of the chase. It looks like its not in the centre. Im inclined to think I could drill straight through the middle, as the lid point is in line with the middle of the socket and the middle of the over head beam. Any thoughts?

Thanks

karlitob

karlitob wrote: »

Hi there,

I actually found a picture of the chase. It looks like its not in the centre. Im inclined to think I could drill straight through the middle, as the lid point is in line with the middle of the socket and the middle of the over head beam. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Bumping this - thoughts welcome.

TouchingVirus

I reckon you'll be grand judging from that picture of the chase. Do check with a wire finder to be double sure

meercat

karlitob wrote: »

Bumping this - thoughts welcome.

19th march when you posted first

think enough info has been posted here already to get the job done safely

a decision has to be made at some point
you are the only one that can do that
go for it;)

mikehammer67

2 stroke wrote: »

Karlitob. I symphatise, but have no advice to offer on drilling, other than you can not always trust cable detectors to pinpoint a cable exactly. In my job I regularly have to drill near electrics but I refuse to drill within 2 inches of an indicated cable without taking extra precautions, including the client accepting responsibility for rewiring if necessary
It's about time that there were rules restricting where electricians and plumbers run services. I regularly see services run through ideal places to hang pictures, clocks, mirrors, curtain poles, ect. In this case it's power cables centered on a 1800 wall, in another house they're centered in the alcoves beside the chimney or within 1 foot of windows or doors. Personally I think most power cables should be within 1 foot of a corner, and the remainder never centered on a wall.

there are rules

DublinDilbert

To be honest if your really worried about it use an old screw driver and knock some plaster out. The chase is probably filled with bonding should be quite easy to tell if your in it or not...

Your putting a clock over it so knocking a little hole won't matter...

2 stroke

mikehammer67 wrote: »

there are rules

Sorry. Let me rephrase. It's about time that there were better rules restricting where electricians and plumbers run services.

2011

2 stroke wrote: »

It's about time that there were better rules restricting where electricians and plumbers run services.

This would of course result in customers being further restricted in where they can have sockets, wall lights, light switches etc. installed.

Following many years of installing shelving, pictures and clocks I have yet to have a problem.

If in doubt, DublinDilbert's suggestion is very good. It is also possible to feel the difference when drilling bonding than masonry.

Bruthal

2 stroke wrote: »

Sorry. Let me rephrase. It's about time that there were better rules restricting where electricians and plumbers run services.

And what would such better rules achieve? If you speed on the road, you get points and fines. Does it stop speeding?

Therefore, no rules will enable blindly drilling into walls by assuming all rules were followed.

karlitob

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I reckon you'll be grand judging from that picture of the chase. Do check with a wire finder to be double sure

Thank you very much. Appreciate your help.

karlitob

meercat wrote: »

19th march when you posted first

think enough info has been posted here already to get the job done safely

a decision has to be made at some point
you are the only one that can do that
go for it;)

Thanks but I disagree. I'm very scared of electrics and haven't done much DIY so I wanted to show a pic which I didn't put up previously to get a more informed comment.

karlitob

DublinDilbert wrote: »

To be honest if your really worried about it use an old screw driver and knock some plaster out. The chase is probably filled with bonding should be quite easy to tell if your in it or not...

Your putting a clock over it so knocking a little hole won't matter...

Good idea - thank you.

meercat

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks but I disagree. I'm very scared of electrics and haven't done much DIY so I wanted to show a pic which I didn't put up previously to get a more informed comment.

yes safety first at all times
i was just pointing out that nearly 2 months later the clock hasnt been fitted
some good advise has already been posted so a decision needs to be made
take care and post an update when you get around to doing it
cheers

2 stroke

2011 wrote: »

This would of course result in customers being further restricted in where they can have sockets, wall lights, light switches etc. installed.

Brilliant! Several generations will live in a house, all wanting to put their own mark on the place.
Who wants a light or a switch hidden behind a curtain? A visitor would spend the whole day trying to figure out how to turn on the light, and the curtains would just be ruined from dirty hands.

2011 wrote: »

Following many years of installing shelving, pictures and clocks I have yet to have a problem.

Shelving, pretty easy, you can generally adjust the spacing/number of brackets. Clocks and pictures, a little more difficult as centering and spacing is more important. Curtain poles are a bigger problem, today I had to tell a lady that she couldn't have curtains as she wanted in her sitting room, due to the layout of her electrics. I needed to fit 12 brackets and every single place that I needed to drill, had sockets, switches or lights underneath. I'll drill one or 2 holes near electrics, not 24.

2011 wrote: »

If in doubt, DublinDilbert's suggestion is very good. It is also possible to feel the difference when drilling bonding than masonry.

Yes, I agree that with experience, one can tell the difference drilling into different material. I do it all the time. The op does not appear to have that experience.

Bruthal wrote: »

And what would such better rules achieve? If you speed on the road, you get points and fines. Does it stop speeding?

Therefore, no rules will enable blindly drilling into walls by assuming all rules were followed.

My problem is that some electricians blindly run cables in the most rediculous places, never considering that somebody else might have to drill there. An example, a light switch or socket near an inward opening french door. The curtain needs to pull back enough for the door to open fully. Depending on the type of curtain chosen,(and curtains will be changed over the years), the brackets may need to be drilled upto 1 foot out from the door.

Yes, I do know this thread is about hanging a clock and there is usualy a very prominent place crying out for such an item, with very centrally placed sockets underneath.

Bruthal

2 stroke wrote: »

Brilliant! Several generations will live in a house, all wanting to put their own mark on the place.
Who wants a light or a switch hidden behind a curtain? A visitor would spend the whole day trying to figure out how to turn on the light, and the curtains would just be ruined from dirty hands.

Ever wired any houses? I have seen a few ask for switches in such locations. After a few years of wiring, you might see it from several points of view.

Shelving, pretty easy, you can generally adjust the spacing/number of brackets. Clocks and pictures, a little more difficult as centering and spacing is more important.

Shelves, clocks, pictures. For some, none would present much difficulty with regards to possible wiring, for others, a shelf on a wall with no wiring would prove difficult. Thats life.

Curtain poles are a bigger problem, today I had to tell a lady that she couldn't have curtains as she wanted in her sitting room, due to the layout of her electrics. I needed to fit 12 brackets and every single place that I needed to drill, had sockets, switches or lights underneath. I'll drill one or 2 holes near electrics, not 24.

Curtains for anyone drilling in that house so.

Yes, I agree that with experience, one can tell the difference drilling into different material. I do it all the time. The op does not appear to have that experience.

Without experience, lots of things are difficult.

My problem is that some electricians blindly run cables in the most rediculous places, never considering that somebody else might have to drill there.

If we were to consider someone else might "have" to drill there, a house would have to be wireless. No matter where cables are, someone might drill or nail.

An example, a light switch or socket near an inward opening french door. The curtain needs to pull back enough for the door to open fully. Depending on the type of curtain chosen,(and curtains will be changed over the years), the brackets may need to be drilled upto 1 foot out from the door.

Looks like the door installers failed to think of the curtain hangers.

Yes, I do know this thread is about hanging a clock and there is usualy a very prominent place crying out for such an item, with very centrally placed sockets underneath.

There is no doubt, some wiring can be thrown in, and cause problems. But the fact remains, if a hole is to be drilled, other services have to be considered, regardless of what rules or electrical perfection is in place.

Solair

The other option would be to require metal ducts. They use flexible metal ducts like shower hoses in some parts of the US. It's pretty hard to accidentally hit one with a drill and not notice.

It's make sense where wiring was in unexpected area.

mikehammer67

Solair wrote: »

The other option would be to require metal ducts. They use flexible metal ducts like shower hoses in some parts of the US. It's pretty hard to accidentally hit one with a drill and not notice.

It's make sense where wiring was in unexpected area.

dunno about that tbh-the rules are clear enough on drops
dunno is there need for additional protection and you have the issue of earthing then(m cebee here btw)
-there are already rules in place relating to your point re:swa and steel conduit for random drops

the problem is that some of these fitters aren't in at the planning stage where they can raise these issues with contractors

if they are involved at an early stage stage well it's their fault tbh for not making it clear to electricians

that is the way my former main contractors would look at it

Bruthal

Solair wrote: »

The other option would be to require metal ducts. They use flexible metal ducts like shower hoses in some parts of the US. It's pretty hard to accidentally hit one with a drill and not notice.

It's make sense where wiring was in unexpected area.

They would probably be easy enough to drill through un-noticed by the diy man when bonded into chases.

But again, it wont eliminate having to check for services when drilling. In any given house, there is no way to guarantee there is no unprotected cable in a given position just by looking, regardless of what rules or whatever is in place.

mikehammer67

http://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/categories/16002-steel-galvanised-capping-channeling


there is that capping they use in the uk
but it's prob not the issue here really

2011

2 stroke wrote: »

Yes, I agree that with experience, one can tell the difference drilling into different material. I do it all the time. The op does not appear to have that experience.

If a person does not have suitable experience to perform a task, then they should not take it on.
End of story.

My problem is that some electricians blindly run cables in the most rediculous places, never considering that somebody else might have to drill there.

In some cases you are correct, some electricians would run cables anywhere.
There are already regulations stating where cables can not be installed, but some choose to ignore this.
More regulations will not turn these people into contentious workers.

An example, a light switch or socket near an inward opening french door. The curtain needs to pull back enough for the door to open fully. Depending on the type of curtain chosen,(and curtains will be changed over the years), the brackets may need to be drilled upto 1 foot out from the door.

That is known as a lack of coordination.
If the job was planned and organised correctly this would not be an issue.

Electricians generally install switches where they are told to.
If they are not told they put them where they think best.
If the customer wants something different this should be agreed and marked up on a drawing before work starts.

This may sound over the top for a domestic installation, but Google SketchUp (powerful 3D modeling software) is free and if I was building a house I would use this to ensure that everything was thought out and coordinated.



I was on a job recently where the electrical contractor did not issue a completion certificate for his work, the work was clearly in breach of basic electrical regulations (I have photos and a report). When the inspector (form the governing body) turned up and tested the installation it even failed an earth fault loop impedance test. No action was taken against the contractor. My point is that there would be no chance that new regulations along the lines suggested would be enforced.

Further restrictions on where cables can be run would also be very unpopular with customers. Some are still upset because they can't have a 13A socket beside their bath.

To be honest 2 stroke I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

dolittle

i think it may be easier to phone the talking clock
or have the time on your mobile
or buy a watch
or buy 2 watches
or get a cooker with a clock on it
or if your stuck for space a microwave with a clock
or indeed a nice mantle clock

meercat

dolittle wrote: »

i think it may be easier to phone the talking clock
or have the time on your mobile
or buy a watch
or buy 2 watches
or get a cooker with a clock on it
or if your stuck for space a microwave with a clock
or indeed a nice mantle clock

or make one;)

Solair

If its original wiring (most wiring), there won't be any difference between the materials in the wall as it would have been installed before the plaster was put on the wall!

Checking for bonding is not a reliable method of finding cables, ducts or pipes.

You can use a cable finder but they're not always accurate, especially on block and plaster walls.

Bruthal

meercat wrote: »

or make one;)

There is always that alright.

paddy147

3M command strips are pretty good and holding heavythings onto walls.

No drilling required.

Bruthal

Solair wrote: »

If its original wiring (most wiring), there won't be any difference between the materials in the wall as it would have been installed before the plaster was put on the wall!

Checking for bonding is not a reliable method of finding cables, ducts or pipes.

You can use a cable finder but they're not always accurate, especially on block and plaster walls.

Very simple to tap out as bit of the surface plaster and check it out. This whole thing is being made out to be a major ordeal.