Formula 1 2013: Round 2 - Malaysian Grand Prix

BostonB

if red bull don't support webber then he should ignore team orders too. if that leads him taking out his teammate then that's the seed thats been sown today.

mickdw

Mental Mickey wrote: »

What? By having the desire to win???

No. By being a dickhead. Happy to ask to have webber pushed aside to let him through earlier on but not happy about sticking to the common agreement re racing to the final pit stop and then holding position even if he has benefitted from this same agreement in the past.
He even claimed he didnt realise they were supposed to hold position.

Infoanon

Mental Mickey wrote: »

What? By having the desire to win???

You seem to be missing the point that both drivers were told to turn down their engines and save their tyres - Webber was 5 seconds ahead at this stage - even when Vettel was sitting on Webbers rear wing Red Bull assured Webber that team orders were in place thus didn't turn his engine up.

Vettel 'desire to win' has resulted in a complete breach of trust within the team - Christian Horner has said that he believes Seb purposely ignored team orders and even Helmut Marko was none to happy with Seb.

If that Renault engine blows later in the season costing him the championship I for one wont be shedding any tears.

The backdrop to the story is the rumours of Seb & Ferrari alliance hit the headlines again over this weekend so perhaps Red Bull already know that Seb is leaving - which would explain the universally disapproval of his actions by the team today.

ratedR

Very underhanded by Vettel today. I'm not his biggest fan either but I think I just feel let down by the sport today more then anything. The way the tyres and fuel are dictating the racing is terrible. The teams deciding after the last pit-stops that the racing is done is just tripe.

But, fair is fair, these decisions are made before the race and the drivers presumably agree to them. To ignore them is just sneaky and unsporting.

It was interesting to hear the likes of Ted Kravitz say that he had lost a bit of respect for Vettel, and also Martin Brundle was talking about how Vettel was booed on the podium in Australia (Mark Webbers back yard though, probably not that surprising). I suppose Vettel won't care though if he's liked or not, it's just about winning races.

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything comes of this at Red Bull. Webber sort of hinted at a weak link in the team in interviews and how Vettel will be protected. Presumably he's talking about Helmut Marko ?

paddy147

Typical Germans.

They dont listen to anyone and think they own the track.

Infoanon

ratedR wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything comes of this at Red Bull. Webber sort of hinted at a weak link in the team in interviews and how Vettel will be protected. Presumably he's talking about Helmut Marko ?

Helmut Marko was interviewed on Sky and was none too happy - made the comment that Christian (Horner) told the drivers to hold position and that the team will have to have a word as they must control the drivers.

Also added that 'unlike Mercedes were there is a clear number 1 driver, we treat are drivers eually'

Max_Charger

Infoanon wrote: »

Also added that 'unlike Mercedes were there is a clear number 1 driver, we treat are drivers eually'

Stupid numbered hats say otherwise

ratedR

Infoanon wrote: »

Helmut Marko was interviewed on Sky and was none too happy - made the comment that Christian (Horner) told the drivers to hold position and that the team will have to have a word as they must control the drivers.

Also added that 'unlike Mercedes were there is a clear number 1 driver, we treat are drivers eually'

I saw that. Took it with a pinch of salt though. Sounded like Marko was just towing the company line. He obviously clearly favours Vettel and couldn't give a toss about Webber.

Mental Mickey

paddy147 wrote: »

Typical Germans.

They dont listen to anyone and think they own the track.

Are you British?

Mental Mickey

oceanman wrote: »

team orders are there for a reason, if nobody obeys them whats the point in having any rules at all!!!!

Team "orders" are a load of crap. It's racing ffs.

Lawlesz

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Team "orders" are a load of crap. It's racing ffs.

Yes but the point is, that Vettel was quite happy with team orders up until now. He even told Red Bull to tell Webber to move over ffs.

So to people defending him and saying its racing - is it only racing when it suits Vettel??

If it is racing, why did he ask the team to tell Webber to move over? If its racing, then surely he should either over take him by himself (with no help from the team) or just sit tight if he is unable to pass.

It cant be "racing" just when it suits Vettel, its either all racing (in which case nobody obeys orders) or we accept that orders are a part of F1 and people stick by them.

What he did today lacked class, to stab Webber in the back like that, a guy who played no small part in Vettel previous championship wins. Its hardly fair racing, when Webber has turned his engine down and is racing at 80% and Vettel is still going at 100%.

I don't normally join in with the Seb bashing that goes on here; he is a talented guy, but after today I lost a lot of respect for him. To me, what he did is indefensible.

Rascasse

ratedR wrote: »

I saw that. Took it with a pinch of salt though. Sounded like Marko was just towing the company line. He obviously clearly favours Vettel and couldn't give a toss about Webber.

It will be interesting to see how much influence he has. Brundle said something interesting in that Seb was booed at Melbourne (something that will only increase after today) and then made a reference to Schumacher's popularity, or lack thereof.

That got me thinking and I reckon it could well suit Red Bull and Vettel to part company at the end of the year. Schumacher became increasingly unpopular during he Ferrari years but it didn't matter. Ferrari will always have the tifosi and they are marketing a product only a tiny fraction of the F1 followers can afford. Red Bull, however, are marketing a product that costs €2 and perhaps you don't want the goodwill your F1 marketing creates to be poisoned by increasing antipathy to your main driver and your team becoming the one everyone loves to hate.

Red Bull (right now) are king makers. There are a few drivers that could have swapped with Vettel to win those championships. Perhaps it's time to give someone else a go. Vettel to Ferrari or McLaren for 2014 after walking away with the 2013 title.

Mental Mickey

Lawlesz wrote: »

Yes but the point is, that Vettel was quite happy with team orders up until now. He even told Red Bull to tell Webber to move over ffs.

So to people defending him and saying its racing - is it only racing when it suits Vettel??

If it is racing, why did he ask the team to tell Webber to move over? If its racing, then surely he should either over take him by himself (with no help from the team) or just sit tight if he is unable to pass.

It cant be "racing" just when it suits Vettel, its either all racing (in which case nobody obeys orders) or we accept that orders are a part of F1 and people stick by them.

What he did today lacked class, to stab Webber in the back like that, a guy who played no small part in Vettel previous championship wins. Its hardly fair racing, when Webber has turned his engine down and is racing at 80% and Vettel is still going at 100%.

I don't normally join in with the Seb bashing that goes on here; he is a talented guy, but after today I lost a lot of respect for him. To me, what he did is indefensible.

It's not racing when stupid team orders are in effect. They(the FIA) need to do away with them. It's become too predictable - too boring.

Sitec

Great race. The Pit Crews must have been on the piss last night. So many mistakes!

Mental Mickey

Sitec wrote: »

Great race. The Pit Crews must have been on the piss last night. So many mistakes!

Lol. Hamilton needs an eye test too.

_rebelkid

What was interesting about todays multiple pit stop failures was Force India.

They have a technical knowledge agreement with McLaren; get to use their simulator, wind tunnel, and CFD computers. But the one new part they introduced into the pit procedure was the wheel nut "in the wheel", which is a part that McLaren invented and developed. But FI didn't use a McLaren system, they made their own. Which failed.

Why make a part that you (more than likely) have access to?

paddy147

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Lol. Hamilton needs an eye test too.

Specsavers next TV ad perhaps???:D

Mental Mickey

Mental Mickey wrote: »

It's not racing when stupid team orders are in effect. They(the FIA) need to do away with them. It's become too predictable - too boring.

There's too much at stake these days. Crazy amounts of money involved. Plus, it is almost impossible to police team orders. How could you tell the difference between a teammate deciding to help out the other off their own back, or a prearranged agreement?

F.J.

Can understand why Vettel did what he did.Alonso his main challenger from last year had crashed out and he wanted to maximise his advantage.The difference between 1st today and 2nd could be telling come the end of the season.

Though the way he went about it wasn't the best especially after the orders being given out.

3ndahalfof6

My take is that Vettel is number 1 driver, and if both cars are that close coming to the end of the race the number 1 driver should get the nod, as he is proven to be the more likely driver to turn that decision into an end of season result,

while I do feel for Mark this time around, he knows where he sits in the team and needs to drive harder and gain a considerable lead so as not to be in a place of being told to let his team mate past,

Vettel will be closer to the top position at the end of the season (most times), so he would make better use of the team orders, team orders were not introduced for the number 2 driver, they are there to help the number 1 driver get to the finish line first,

someone said he is the best driver out there, well I think not, he is the best driver out of 2 drivers in that car, Alonso is probably the best driver with a shiit getting better car,

take your stilettos of before attacking.

se conman

A couple of points are being missed I think, first of all, F1 is by no stretch of the imagination a "sport" it is business, and big business at that.Team orders are there for one thing and one thing only, and that is to allow the team owners to exert their will over the drivers in any way they see fit. I am under no illusion that Seb will get a right royal bol****ing from Christian and what is more is Seb will take it. What else is he going to do ? Throw his toys out of the pram and walk ? To where mid/early season. Christian comes across as a nice guy but the bottom line is, he gave an employee an order and that employee thought he was bigger than the boss and Christian will have no problem re exerting his authority and putting Seb back in his place which is one of two employee's employed to promote a product and image what ever way the boss wants it done. Seb forgets that RedBull does not exist to serve him, he is there to serve RedBull.

Infoanon

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

while I do feel for Mark this time around, he knows where he sits in the team and needs to drive harder and gain a considerable lead so as not to be in a place of being told to let his team mate past,

Mark was 5 seconds clear of Vettel when he followed team instructions to turn back the engine and perserve the tyres - same instruction,including a hold position was given to Vettel.

Vettel disobeyed repeated team orders simple as.

Mech1

Vettel's a c*nt, simples.

BostonB

F.J. wrote: »

Can understand why Vettel did what he did.Alonso his main challenger from last year had crashed out and he wanted to maximise his advantage.The difference between 1st today and 2nd could be telling come the end of the season....

Webber not playing ball once or twice might make the difference in him losing it too. I can't see Webber agreeing to team orders ever again. Indeed I can see one of them taking both out if they are fighting for position again.

Mental Mickey

Basil3 wrote: »

There's too much at stake these days. Crazy amounts of money involved. Plus, it is almost impossible to police team orders. How could you tell the difference between a teammate deciding to help out the other off their own back, or a prearranged agreement?

You can tell when a driver backs off and the following driver makes up a huge gap very quickly! I've seen it happen loads of times watching F1 races over the years.

superoil

Hey everyone.
As a fan of f1 for over 20 years I've recently begun to get an itch to go to a grand prix.
I'm interested to hear if anybody hereas been to a grand prix and if so, whats it like?
My main dilemma is that there is a large cost involved in a f1 weekend, and I'm not sure if it is worth it to see 20+ cars whizz by every couple of mins. Any advice would be great.
Ps sorry if I've posted this in the wrong thread.
Superoil

_rebelkid

superoil, try the General Thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056815836

Sitec

Didn't see this after the race...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykG06ixh92c

Andrew76

Sitec wrote: »

Didn't see this after the race...

Jeebus bit dangerous that. Had to laugh at Webbo giving Vettel the finger after he finally gave up the battle - only saw it on pixelated replays after the race.

EvilMonkey

BostonB wrote: »

Webber not playing ball once or twice might make the difference in him losing it too. I can't see Webber agreeing to team orders ever again. Indeed I can see one of them taking both out if they are fighting for position again.

Well i would like to think if i was a team boss and a driver didn't follow a team order they would be the reserve driver for the next race. If that driver was a my no 1 driver and a 3 time world champion in what is likely to be a massively competitive season, i would have a big decision to make. But if it was my number 2 they would be out.

Do people calling for team orders to be banned by the FIA not realise team orders happen in every race by every team. The only way to get rid of them would be to have 1 car teams and no constructor championship.