Formula 1 2013: Round 2 - Malaysian Grand Prix

Max_Charger

Did Seb just say he didn't realise there were orders in place?!

Dcully

Dcully wrote: »

Dead right not to , any true racing fan would applaud him for it instead of pulling the respect and fair play card.

What is Vettel apologising for?

Dcully

Dcully wrote: »

Dead right not to , any true racing fan would applaud him for it instead of pulling the respect and fair play card.

Lets not forget that if it was any other driver, Webber could have run him off the road when he let him past

Grim.

Silverstone 2011 Mark didn't obey team orders and was applauded at the time, same old ****e on this forum again.

Sparks43

Deleted User wrote: »

What is Vettel apologising for?

For being childish hopefully

Dcully

Deleted User wrote: »

What is Vettel apologising for?

most likely playing team orders when it doesnt hurt him, gotta love a racer willing to win at any cost

McBauer

Dcully wrote: »

So all you guys giving Vettel a lashing ill ask you this,

Do you like,condone team orders?

For once a driver gives two fingers to team orders and he is ridiculed for it and by the same people ive seen on here give out fcuk like me about team orders.
Call him whatever you like,atleast he is man enough to say fcuk team orders and race, he is a born racer, his record proves this yet so called F1 race fans ridicule him for it?
As an avid F1 fan of 30+ years i think its great to see Vettel ignore team orders,a natural born racer doesnt give two flying fcuks what people think of them, their only desire is to race bloody hard and WIN!!
Ofcourse im being greedy here as i want to see racers race hard @ 100% before any team orders, crucify me for it if you will but im a racing fan before anything else and its against what i believe in racing terms to not applaud a guy man enough to give two fingers to team orders.

Its only unfortunate Mark was on the receiving end, i feel for the guy , he never get the rub of green ever!

Come on, have a bit of common sense here. Most people are against team orders. But Vettel isnt saying fcuk teams orders. Earlier in the race he wanted Mark to be ordered to let him pass.

Bullseye1

Deleted User wrote: »

What is Vettel apologising for?

Probably to massage some bruised egos and fans of F1 who like team orders.

Myrddin

Dcully wrote: »

Dead right not to , any true racing fan would applaud him for it instead of pulling the respect and fair play card.

Come off it, his body language in the post-race room & on the podium tells me everything I need to know about how he feels about it

counterlock

Post race comments
Vettel:

"I don't care about the criticism. I owe an explanation to Mark and the team and that's it. For sure it's not a victory I'm very proud of because it should have been Mark's."

Webber:

I turned the engine down and was reassured twice that we would not use the cars against each other.

alastair_doom

Deleted User wrote: »

What is Vettel apologising for?

Sounds like he didnt know Webber had turned his engine down, rather than apologizing for disobeying team orders

recyclebin

Why is Vettel apologising if he didn't hear the team orders?

I don't like team orders but you either have them or you don't and you can't chose to ignore them if it suits you. That is why most people on here are bashing Vettel. You can't defend him for what he did.

Myrddin

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Probably to massage some bruised egos and fans of F1 who like team orders.

Because Vettel never benefited from team orders in the past?

Goldstein

Vettel shouldn't have sucker-punched Weber but Weber should have fought Vettel to the end. If Vettel chose to throw team orders out of the window that knife could have cut both ways but Mark threw in the towel as soon as Vettel got past. How seriously Red Bull now deal with the infraction determines how much authority their team orders deserve to carry. If it's just a tut-tut Sebastien then their orders don't hold much weight at all when it comes down to it.

What Mercedes did to Rosberg was a farce.

Ghost Train

Grim. wrote: »

yeah and when's the last time they've won a manufacturers championship

98? but team orders were banned for a good few years and have lack of team orders really hurt the team in the manufacturers championship, team orders mainly used to help win a drivers championship in any case unless drivers running each other off the road.

Bullseye1

EnterNow wrote: »

Because Vettel never benefited from team orders in the past?

Are you for team orders or not? I'm against any team orders. Racers should be allowed race. Webber defended his position.

Myrddin

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are you for team orders or not? I'm against any team orders. Racers should be allowed race. Webber defended his position.

Whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant, they are legal at the moment so are something we have to accept. And nevertheless, Vettel is perfectly happy to benefit from them but doesn't like following them it seems

Bullseye1

Goldstein wrote: »

What Mercedes did to Rosberg was a farce.

I've always admired Hamilton as a racing driver and would hope he has not got some clause in his contract that he is number 1. Let the guys race and see who is better.

youreadthat

Goldstein wrote: »

Vettel shouldn't have sucker-punched Weber but Weber should have fought Vettel to the end. If Vettel chose to throw team orders out of the window that knife could have cut both ways but Mark threw in the towel as soon as Vettel got past. How seriously Red Bull now deal with the infraction determines how much authority their team orders deserve to carry. If it's just a tut-tut Sebastien then their orders don't hold much weight at all when it comes down to it.

What Mercedes did to Rosberg was a farce.

So telling Lewis to push 100% for an entire stint and then making him save fuel for the rest of the race is called what exactly?

Simply evened up their own error imo.

Bullseye1

EnterNow wrote: »

Whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant, they are legal at the moment so are something we have to accept. And nevertheless, Vettel is perfectly happy to benefit from them but doesn't like following them it seems

Actually no as fans we don't have to accept them at all. How can you be a fan of motor racing and accept team orders? Senna said it best when he described carting as "pure driving". Personally I've seen enough politics in the sport and would like to see "pure driving".

counterlock

If the situation were reversed, how do you guys think Vettel would be handling it? Of course, its a rhetorical question because we all know exactly how he would take it.

Another point is that Mark was racing until the final pitstop, he knew it was a two horse race and probably had planned on doing everything to get out in front after his last stop - knowing that he would/should not have been challenged by Vettel.

Goldstein

youreadthat wrote: »

So telling Lewis to push 100% for an entire stint and then making him save fuel for the rest of the race is called what exactly?

A gamble that didn't pay off.

Rascasse

Did anything happen to Chilton to excuse him finishing a lap behind GvdG? Or is it becoming obvious that it's a case of far more money than talent?

Myrddin

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Actually no as fans we don't have to accept them at all. How can you be a fan of motor racing and accept team orders? Senna said it best when he described carting as "pure driving". Personally I've seen enough politics in the sport and would like to see "pure driving".

Team orders have always been there, even when illegal they were there..."Fernando is faster than you". There is absolutely nothing we can do to change that, so yes, yes we do have to accept them.

And again, Vettel has no problem with team orders, once they favour him.

Bullseye1

counterlock wrote: »

If the situation were reversed, how do you guys think Vettel would be handling it? Of course, its a rhetorical question because we all know exactly how he would take it.

Another point is that Mark was racing until the final pitstop, he knew it was a two horse race and probably had planned on doing everything to get out in front after his last stop - knowing that he would/should not have been challenged by Vettel.

I don't think anyone is having a go at Webber or how he handled his disappointment at not winning.

errlloyd

Rascasse wrote: »

Did anything happen to Chilton to excuse him finishing a lap behind GvdG? Or is it becoming obvious that it's a case of far more money than talent?

Was he involved in a pit lane incident.

Bullseye1

That was hilarious Hamilton entering the McLaren pit area.

deecaz

For anyone else who watched Setanta and didn't see the podium interviews Sky have them up here http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/formula-1/8594186/heated-podium

Not a Lewis fan but he looks pretty embarrassed to have beaten Rosberg because of team orders, unlike Vettel.

Also, is Brundle doing them all this year? I'm pretty sure he did Australia too.

Rascasse

errlloyd wrote: »

Was he involved in a pit lane incident.

I've no idea. Sky haven't mentioned him, not even during Ted's Notebook. Must be a case of less said about it the better.

hoodwinked

deecaz wrote: »

Not a Lewis fan but he looks pretty embarrassed to have beaten Rosberg because of team orders, unlike Vettel.

it was all for show, its easy to be humble and apologetic when you have the points you need!

he could teach Vettel a thing or two in garnering public support and handling PR while being a cutthroat racer on track!

deecaz

hoodwinked wrote: »

it was all for show, its easy to be humble and apologetic when you have the points you need!

he could teach Vettel a thing or two in garnering public support and handling PR while being a cutthroat racer on track!

Well, at least he had the decency to look uncomfortable unlike Vettel!

Any word if it was the team or Alonso who made that stupid decision to stay out?

Ghost Train

deecaz wrote: »

Well, at least he had the decency to look uncomfortable unlike Vettel!

Any word if it was the team or Alonso who made that stupid decision to stay out?

Team should have overruled Alonso if he wanted to stay out, unless he ignored the team but would imagine it was team who ultimately made wrong call. Seemed to be the spray from the overtaking Redbull which eventually broke the wing, wonder would it have lasted longer if he fell back a bit and avoided close racing

v3ttel

Dcully wrote: »

So all you guys giving Vettel a lashing ill ask you this,

Do you like,condone team orders?

For once a driver gives two fingers to team orders and he is ridiculed for it and by the same people ive seen on here give out fcuk like me about team orders.
Call him whatever you like,atleast he is man enough to say fcuk team orders and race, he is a born racer, his record proves this yet so called F1 race fans ridicule him for it?
As an avid F1 fan of 30+ years i think its great to see Vettel ignore team orders,a natural born racer doesnt give two flying fcuks what people think of them, their only desire is to race bloody hard and WIN!!
Ofcourse im being greedy here as i want to see racers race hard @ 100% before any team orders, crucify me for it if you will but im a racing fan before anything else and its against what i believe in racing terms to not applaud a guy man enough to give two fingers to team orders.

Its only unfortunate Mark was on the receiving end, i feel for the guy , he never get the rub of green ever!

+1 on this. Racers are there to race. I feel bad for Webber, but it should be a tough fair fight for the win without any team orders. Those 8 points could be the difference between Vettel winning the championship or not. He should have the right to go for it.

_rebelkid wrote: »

So Alonso does have a sense of humour:

Via twitter:
Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial
Today that I'm not in the podium I'm missing a good moment..! I will try not leave them alone again ... )) #goodMood

I think it would be better for Alonso to keep his mouth shut after what Massa did for him in Texas last season.

antomorro-sei

Rooney10 wrote: »

I think it would be better for Alonso to keep his mouth shut after what Massa did for him in Texas last season.

He didn't say anything bad there, did he!?

antomorro-sei

Devastated that Alonso crashed out so early. Why didn't he just pit after Lap 1?

Bar all the pit mistakes then, I'm not sure I actually enjoyed that GP much tbh.

Have to feel sorry for Webber. Looking forward to seeing how the next few races pan out between the Red Bull drivers!

Myrddin

Very bad call from either Alonso or Ferrari to stay out with the broken wing. Alonso may not have been able to see how badly damaged it was, but the team certainly should have. Unless he ignored instructions to pit? Either way, whoever made the call it cost him a haul of points in all likelihood.

Bad start from Massa, did well to claw back up though.

Vettel, good drive from him up until the drama. It all looked very reckless from there on though. Oh and regards the "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way" comment...if you can't overtake a slower moving car with two DRS straights & KERS...he's obviously not that slow. I don't think his actions today painted him in a very good light, he screwed his wingman over by ignoring a team order...maybe the racer thing to do, but not the right thing to do.

Webber, prob driver of the day for me. Given the psychological pummeling he's had for two years, coupled with a tirade of bad starts, it was nice to see him ace the start & control the race up until the Vettel drama.

Hamilton, good drive, very good drive from both Mercs really. I don't buy into the favoritism talk though, I'd wager that if the roles were reversed then Hamilton would have been told to back off. Brawn is far too experienced to allow the drivers to risk a haul of points. I think it was just whoever was in the lead at the end of the last pit stops was gonna be protected by a team order...that just happened to be Hamilton. Nice humility showed on the podium too I thought.

Rosberg, as I said above...great driving from both the Merc drivers. The form showed by Rosberg lately paints Schumacher in a very good light too. Again though if he couldn't get past Hamilton by using KERS & the two DRS zones then Hamilton wasn't that much slower. Whining about it over the radio doesn't look good considering.

Kimi, ugh...didn't go well at all. Was definitely expecting more from Lotus.

Button showed some good promise...but the McLaren pit stops blackened the day for the team.

Perez looked middling, I can only assume the car is a real handful.

Killinator

Why do people assume if you criticize Vettel for today you're for team orders,
I'd be surprised if there was even one person on here who wanted team orders and not flat out racing.

Vettel wasn't giving the finger to the calls and being a rebel for the cause of great racing, if he was he wouldn't have called for Webber to be hauled aside to let him pass because he was slow(despite Webber immediately pulling away from him) in this very race.

He evidently only wants team orders when they suit him( like most other drivers) the difference being he doesn't want to follow them when they suit Webber.

I like Vettel, I didnt like the booing he got in Australia and hes a triple champion because hes world class

But

He mugged Webber today, he undermined his team and has surely destroyed any trust between him and Mark.

The extra points he gained today is one thing and may be the difference in winning number 4, equally the points he may miss out on in future races because Webber decides to ignore the team and not hold position/let Vettel pass could also be telling down the line.

I wont argue that this conflicts forming aren't entertaining and it's a pity we gotta wait 3 weeks for a continuation....

shamwari

Even though the circumstances then were different, what happened in Sepang today may be on par with happened between Prost & Senna in Imola '89. I reckon all trust between Webber and Vettel will be irreparably damaged following today's events. I have a great deal of respect for Vettel as a driver and admire him for his enormous talent, but what he did today, in my mind, calls his integrity into serious question.

firemansam4

Rooney10 wrote: »

+1 on this. Racers are there to race. I feel bad for Webber, but it should be a tough fair fight for the win without any team orders. Those 8 points could be the difference between Vettel winning the championship or not. He should have the right to go for it.

Completely disagree with this.

I am not 1 for team orders and wish there were none there at all!!

But how many times has Webber had to toe the team line and follow team orders where Vettel has gained?

All being fair then vettel and Webber should have been allowed to race to the end, but Webber had already followed team orders and turned down his engine ect - to witch Vettel took full advantage of. He had no right to go for anything in that case. Like I said i would have liked to see them both race to the end with no team orders, but its hardly fair in this case where Vettel obviously gained an advantage from Webber following team orders.

Myrddin

firemansam4 wrote: »

But how many times has Webber had to toe the team line and follow team orders where Vettel has gained?

This point has been made & ignored several times. The only defense against it, is that usually Vettel was in a championship winning position at times & that team orders in that sense are understandable. This is race two for God sake, & he's burned a very important bridge now I reckon. I wouldn't however, expect Webber to go out of his way to benefit Vettel again in a hurry.

deecaz

Just saw this on twitter,

‏@andrewbensonf1 15m
Ferrari say the decision to leave @alo_oficial out was their call. Not the first time in recent years they've messed up their strategy

deecaz

EnterNow wrote: »

This point has been made & ignored several times. The only defense against it, is that usually Vettel was in a championship winning position at times & that team orders in that sense are understandable. This is race two for God sake, & he's burned a very important bridge now I reckon. I wouldn't however, expect Webber to go out of his way to benefit Vettel again in a hurry.

I've got to agree, with the teams looking so close this year Vettel is surely going to need Mark to tow the line somewhere near the end of the season, like Massa and Alonso last season. I wonder if he hasn't cut off his nose to spite his face.

vectra

Breaking away from the vettel farce.
What in the name of god were Lotus thinking when Kimi was stuck behind the Hulk?
They should have pitted Kimi and gave him clear air. He would have had the jump on a few cars if they did.

EvilMonkey

EnterNow wrote: »

Vettel, good drive from him up until the drama. It all looked very reckless from there on though. Oh and regards the "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way" comment...if you can't overtake a slower moving car with two DRS straights & KERS...he's obviously not that slow. I don't think his actions today painted him in a very good light, he screwed his wingman over by ignoring a team order...maybe the racer thing to do, but not the right thing to do.

Webber, prob driver of the day for me. Given the psychological pummeling he's had for two years, coupled with a tirade of bad starts, it was nice to see him ace the start & control the race up until the Vettel drama.

He was following team orders to stay back and save the tyres, Webber was backing him into the Mercs and could have cost him a podium. He didnt know at that point the mercs would fall back.

Myrddin

EvilMonkey wrote: »

He was following team orders to stay back and save the tyres, Webber was backing him into the Mercs and could have cost him a podium. He didnt know at that point the mercs would fall back.

Maybe so, but RB are masters of strategic calls & number crunching. I'm sure if that were the case, Webber would have been told to respond to the Mercs

deecaz

deecaz wrote: »

Just saw this on twitter,

I reckon I would be a better tactician than the Ferrari team

EvilMonkey

EnterNow wrote: »

This point has been made & ignored several times. The only defense against it, is that usually Vettel was in a championship winning position at times & that team orders in that sense are understandable. This is race two for God sake, & he's burned a very important bridge now I reckon. I wouldn't however, expect Webber to go out of his way to benefit Vettel again in a hurry.

Weber has ignored team orders in the past Silverstone 2011 one example.

EvilMonkey

EnterNow wrote: »

Maybe so, but RB are masters of strategic calls & number crunching. I'm sure if that were the case, Webber would have been told to respond to the Mercs

Maybe he wanted seb to get caught?

Myrddin

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Weber has ignored team orders in the past Silverstone 2011 one example.

But he obeyed that order

SniperSight

I love the posters acting like Senna was completely against team orders and the epitome of fair racing....
Now I hold Senna as a personal hero, but if people would care to read a book or actually know his history they'd be well aware that on more than one occasion Senna dictated who his team mates would or wouldn't be so that he'd get priority in "his" team.

For the record I don't like team orders, I'd prefer the all out racing, but they've always been there, wether legal or not.
I like Vettel, but he screwed Webber, I find it hard to believe someone as obviously sharp as him didn't know what was going on and that a team order was supposed to be ib effect as he claimed when interviewed by Pinks.
Webber was screwed by Vettel, Nico was screwed by Merecedes not Hammy.