Rent late - landlord over-reacting - what can I do?

cookie1977

djimi wrote: »

In an ideal world no payment would ever be late. Im not sure if youve noticed but we dont live in an ideal world...

I agree but I was primarily referring to Joe Hart's comment:

...cant handle periods of non-payment then he is a mickey mouse landlord

StillWaters

Joe Hart wrote: »

A month late, it doesn't matter. If he can't handle periods of non-payment then he is a mickey mouse landlord. The risks are that you get a tenant that goes a year without paying and you can't sue them. That's the game. Don't like it then get out.

Why can't you sue them? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

djimi

cookie1977 wrote: »

I agree but I was primarily referring to Joe Hart's comment:

Hes right though. The law is such that a landlord must give 14 days notice in writing before they can persue a tenant further for late payment of rent, and if the rent is paid in full in that time then the matter is closed. As such, a landlord must be aware that there might be the possibility of rent being up to 14 days late in a given month; they need to be able to allow for things like this to happen, for their own sake and for the sake of any outgoings that they might have that would rely on the rent being paid.

hawkelady

djimi wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if the OP is genuine in this and had a good excuse for the delay then where exactly do you expect them to get the rent money from? Pull it out of thin air? If they havent got it then they havent got it; no amount of whinging and screaming (or in this case aggressive lawbreaking bullying) is going to change that. The law is not on the landlord side here; they can whinge all they want but the bottom line is if the rent is only two days late, and assuming its the first time something like this has happened, then there isnt a damn thing they can do about it. Its a fact of life with the way the Irish tenancy laws are.

I agree with you but you are forgetting that if we are to believe op then the ll had no problem in waiting two days for his rent. Why in gods name would he barrel on over to shout and scream to the tenant. I would bet my own rent money that we ain't hearing the full story here,

djimi

StillWaters wrote: »

Why can't you sue them? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

You can sue (or take legal action against) them of course, but the system in Ireland being what it is it might take a year to get a judgement against a tenant, and even at that there is no guarantee of getting payment out of them. Its a risk that a landlord takes when renting a property out.

Joe Hart

StillWaters wrote: »

Why can't you sue them? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

I think I'm one of the few people that I nkow what I'm talking about. Most late and non-payments of rent would be from poorly chosen welfare tenants. Check out irishlandlord.com for some horror stories.

You can sue them but you will not see a cent of money.

djimi

hawkelady wrote: »

I agree with you but you are forgetting that if we are to believe op then the ll had no problem in waiting two days for his rent. Why in gods name would he barrel on over to shout and scream to the tenant. I would bet my own rent money that we ain't hearing the full story here,

Perhaps we are not, but whats the point in speculating on facts that we dont have? Theres little point in responding to a thread if you are not going to take it at face value (unless its very obviously BS); reading between the lines to find something that might not exist doesnt help matters. If the OP is looking for genuine advise then give it to them. If they are leaving something out then its them that suffers for it.

Youre also taking a massive leap of faith that the landlord is not just some plank who doesnt know the first thing about tenancy laws and that he is not one of these geniuses who thinks that they can take every matter into their own hands. Of course, the majority of landlords are not like that, but sadly there are a lot out there who are just like what I have described. Its entirely possible that the OP is dealing with one of them.

djimi

Im afraid you cant say something like this

Joe Hart wrote: »

I think I'm one of the few people that I nkow what I'm talking about.

and then follow it up with a wildly sweeping generalization like this

Joe Hart wrote: »

Most late and non-payments of rent would be from poorly chosen welfare tenants.

P. Breathnach

makeorbrake wrote: »

... I said it before and I will say it again...
No sane landlord would take this action for 2 days late payment which he had already agreed to!

On that we can agree.

The speculation that OP is withholding relevant facts is another matter - well, two other matters: 1. the supposition that there is more to the story; and 2. that the suspected "more" in some way might justify the landlord's actions.

I can offer speculations that are less flimsy than those already made here (they are based on what OP said in his opening post): 1. the rent was late because OP was away for the holiday weekend, and it might not have been easy to get to get to a bank to deal with the rent; 2. the incident took place at the end of a holiday weekend when many people drink a lot, so the landlord might have had a skinful.

Can I prove any of this? Not at all. Can those suggesting that OP is a bad tenant prove a case? Not at all. But it is quite possible that in this case the landlord was totally in the wrong.

StillWaters

djimi wrote: »

You can sue (or take legal action against) them of course, but the system in Ireland being what it is it might take a year to get a judgement against a tenant, and even at that there is no guarantee of getting payment out of them. Its a risk that a landlord takes when renting a property out.

I know you can sue. I was challenging the poster who stated only Micky mouse landlords cannot sustain that sort of loss. I don't take that risk letting property out. I'm very careful selecting tenants and would act quickly with the first late or non payment.

Joe Hart

djimi wrote: »

Im afraid you cant say something like this



and then follow it up with a wildly sweeping generalization like this

Yes you can. I operate in the real world. People with the least money most likely to have trouble paying bills shocker.

Joe Hart

StillWaters wrote: »

I know you can sue. I was challenging the poster who stated only Micky mouse landlords cannot sustain that sort of loss. I don't take that risk letting property out. I'm very careful selecting tenants and would act quickly with the first late or non payment.

If you let you take that risk. You try and minimise but the risk is always there. If you are going to be sunk after a month of non-payment then you are an amateur.

djimi

StillWaters wrote: »

I know you can sue. I was challenging the poster who stated only Micky mouse landlords cannot sustain that sort of loss. I don't take that risk letting property out. I'm very careful selecting tenants and would act quickly with the first late or non payment.

You can be as careful as you like when selecting tenants; no matter who you are dealing with there is always the risk of getting burned.

What exactly do you propose by "acting quickly" at the first late or non-payment? You either follow the system or you carry out an illegal eviction; the former will take months to sort out; the latter could end up costing you thousands in damages.

Im not suggesting that a landlord should be able to sustain a loss of a years rent; not many could do that even if they wanted to. What I am saying is that in the case of late payments at least, the law is such that there is a small amount of leniency allowed on the part of the tenant, and as such a landlord should be aware of this, and be able to plan for it. It would not make a lot of sense to have your own mortgage payment coming out the day after the rent was due for example, as this would just be asking for trouble.

djimi

Joe Hart wrote: »

Yes you can. I operate in the real world. People with the least money most likely to have trouble paying bills shocker.

People on welfare actually get money to pay their rent with. I work full time and am probably in more risk of not being able to afford my rent than someone who is on rent suppliment.

Unless you mean that there is more of a risk of someone on rent suppliment not actually paying their rent? How is the risk any greater than someone in full time employment deciding not to pay their rent?

Youre making a sweeping an unfair generalization.

Joe Hart

They have less money. They are scum. Stop being an idealist.

makeorbrake

Joe Hart wrote: »

A month late, it doesn't matter.

Ok, great. So now we have established a couple of things in relation to a number of posters on here - and specifically yourself.

i.e. You believe that it's ok NOT to pay your bills.

Joe Hart wrote: »

If he can't handle periods of non-payment then he is a mickey mouse landlord.

Ah sure, he's a mickey mouse landlord. Tenant doesnt pay up so if he was 'professional', he should just suck it up, right?

Joe Hart wrote: »

The risks are that you get a tenant that goes a year without paying and you can't sue them. That's the game. Don't like it then get out.

Well, your wrong about not being able to evict within a year - although there are major loopholes in the law that very much favour low life scum who consciously set out to NOT pay their bills! If you find that acceptable, that says a lot about you as an individual. Personally, I find it reprehensible.

cookie wrote:

Rent should never be late.

Thank you cookie. Rent should NEVER be late or go UNPAID.

Joe Hart wrote:

If somebody is late with the rent you give them a chance.

According to who? - You!? It's a judgement call on the part of the landlord as to whether he does or does not do this....a judgement based on whether your dealing with a low life scumbag or an honourable decent individual.

Joe Hart wrote:

Head over the irishlandlords.com and you will find a few pros who agree with me.

So a forum of landlords would agree with your assertion that it's acceptable not to pay your rent? I think not. That they may agree that there are low life scumbags out there that consciously set out not to pay their rent - I'm sure they would agree.

Joe Hart wrote:

If you are stressing over your own costs then you can **** off and blame yourself for being a rubbish business person.

Well that's that well and truly settled then. Landlord - if your reading - if you have not been paid, according to JH, you can "**** off and blame yourself".
How could you possibly stress over paying your own bills. Take JH's advise if you cant beat em join em - leave your bills unpaid. It's totally acceptable behaviour apparently.

djimi wrote:

Just out of curiosity, if the OP is genuine in this and had a good excuse for the delay then where exactly do you expect them to get the rent money from?

Have you ever heard of personal responsibility? I have rented in 4 different european countries over 20 years and have NEVER not paid my rent and NEVER been late with my rent.
If he can't pay, then he needs to move out. If he has nowhere to move to, then he needs to enlist the help of family/friends. If that's not possible, then he needs to go to the community welfare officer and plead his case.
In other countries aside from this banana republic, what do you think happens when you either don't or can't pay your rent?

djimi wrote:

The law is not on the landlord side here

Damn straight it's not - and it's patently evident that many who have posted on this thread are aware of that.

djimi wrote:

The law is not on the landlord side here; they can whinge all they want but the bottom line is if the rent is only two days late, and assuming its the first time something like this has happened, then there isnt a damn thing they can do about it. Its a fact of life with the way the Irish tenancy laws are.

Once again, no sane landlord would act as he did (and nobody condones what he did) ONLY because the rent was 2 days late - when he had already agreed to that being acceptable! NOBODY believes that.

Joe Hart

If you've gone to a multiquote of that length then you've already lost.
You haven't actually read my posts.

P. Breathnach

makeorbrake wrote: »

... NOBODY believes that.

I do.

I believe it as much as I believe anything I read on boards. That means that I take it as being true for the purposes of discussion.

makeorbrake

Joe Hart wrote: »

If you've gone to a multiquote of that length then you've already lost.

lol - I've already 'lost'? I've lost nothing. This is a discussion forum where people discuss stuff and exchange their views.

Joe Hart wrote: »

You haven't actually read my posts.

Kind of hard not to - and I'd hardly address your points - point by point - if I hadn't read them?

makeorbrake

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I do.

I believe it as much as I believe anything I read on boards. That means that I take it as being true for the purposes of discussion.

Good for you. We'll agree to differ on that then as I maintain it is highly unlikely.

StillWaters

Joe Hart wrote: »

They have less money. They are scum. Stop being an idealist.

Now you are trolling.

Joe Hart

I don't do multiquote battles. I take a sample and we can assume I'm right on the rest.

i.e. You believe that it's ok NOT to pay your bills.

I never said that. I said it happens and a landlord has to deal with it legally. 14 day notices etc.

Gatling

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I do..

I do

Some people actually speak for every body else on the internet

djimi

makeorbrake wrote: »

Have you ever heard of personal responsibility? I have rented in 4 different european countries over 20 years and have NEVER not paid my rent and NEVER been late with my rent.
If he can't pay, then he needs to move out. If he has nowhere to move to, then he needs to enlist the help of family/friends. If that's not possible, then he needs to go to the community welfare officer and plead his case.
In other countries aside from this banana republic, what do you think happens when you either don't or can't pay your rent?

Good for you; pat yourself on the back. Ive never missed a rent payment either; doesnt mean that I could never see any situation ever arise where I might stuggle financially some month. I had to make some doctors visits last month; cost me over €200 that I didnt see coming. Made things kind of tight. These things happen you know.

And just so were clear; the time frame in question is two days. Noone is talking about weeks or months, or indefinitately being unable to afford rent. At face value, its one late rent payment of two days. Your reaction is way over the top. In fact, you are coming across about as rational as the landlord described in the OP.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Once again, no sane landlord would act as he did (and nobody condones what he did) ONLY because the rent was 2 days late - when he had already agreed to that being acceptable! NOBODY believes that.

Im guessing youve never met someone with anger issues then? Scary thing when you come across someone who is not capable of acting rationally; its a lot like what the OP described actually. You think that every landlord in Ireland is perfect; that there isnt a chance that maybe this guy really is a nutjob? Theres no screening needed to be a landlord you know; no license or piece of paper to say that you are fit for the job. Plenty of landlords are nowhere near fit for the job...

Joe Hart

Good to know that Makeorbrake believes that the 200k people in mortgage arrears should start knocking around and asking friends if they can use their couch.

makeorbrake

djimi wrote: »

the time frame in question is two days. Noone is talking about weeks or months, or indefinitately being unable to afford rent.

Ok, fair enough. Despite the fact (given that he consented to the two days) that I have contended (as have others) that this is highly unlikely to be about a 2 day delay in payment, if that's all it's about, then fine. Is there anyone here that would take dramatic action (lawful or unlawful) on the basis to 2 days late payment which they had already consented to?

djimi wrote: »

Good for you; pat yourself on the back. Ive never missed a rent payment either; doesnt mean that I could never see any situation ever arise where I might stuggle financially some month. I had to make some doctors visits last month; cost me over €200 that I didnt see coming. Made things kind of tight. These things happen you know.

Yes, things happen. However, rent (a roof over your head) would have to come pretty high in the list of priorities, would it not? However, even in such circumstances, there is no right to impose non-payment on a landlord who has his own bills to pay.

djimi wrote: »

Im guessing youve never met someone with anger issues then? Scary thing when you come across someone who is not capable of acting rationally; its a lot like what the OP described actually. You think that every landlord in Ireland is perfect; that there isnt a chance that maybe this guy really is a nutjob? Theres no screening needed to be a landlord you know; no license or piece of paper to say that you are fit for the job. Plenty of landlords are nowhere near fit for the job...

Re-read my posts. I have already covered that. The ONLY other explanation for the landlords actions is that of a psychological disorder of some sort or other.

Joe Hart wrote:

Good to know that Makeorbrake believes that the 200k people in mortgage arrears should start knocking around and asking friends if they can use their couch.

Delighted that you brought it up Joe - as it was exactly this I was thinking of. You know how many landlords are up to their eyeballs in arrears, negative equity, etc? You think - just maybe - said landlord needs the income he is contractually entitled to - to try to cover same? Is that a possibility?.....or are all landlord gazillionaires...?

Joe Hart wrote:

I take a sample and we can assume I'm right on the rest.

Assume your right? lol...hey, whatever floats yer boat.

I never said that. I said it happens and a landlord has to deal with it legally. 14 day notices etc.

Great - against all odds, it looks like we agree on something then.

lukesmom

I'm going to take a wild guess here.

I would say the OP is a lot later than two days and knew by posting the correct length of days he is in arrears, he would get told it was his own fault and the responses would be less sympathetic.

He is angry that the landlord tried to enter the propery, and rightly so in that regard. However, it would take quite a lot to push somebody over the edge to act in this way so I'd imagine the landlord is highly frustrated. Landlords have bills and mortgage repayments to keep up too!

cookie1977

lukesmom wrote: »

I'm going to take a wild guess here.

I would say the OP is a lot later than two days and knew by posting the correct length of days he is in arrears, he would get told it was his own fault and the responses would be less sympathetic.

He is angry that the landlord tried to enter the propery, and rightly so in that regard. However, it would take quite a lot to push somebody over the edge to act in this way so I'd imagine the landlord is highly frustrated. Landlords have bills and mortgage repayments to keep up too!

Yes but that's all hypothetical. If we just take the facts as the OP has described them then the landlord has way over reacted in this case (and in fact I would have called the gardai). Every thing else is pure speculation.

Victor

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

You have a fishy smell about you.

How do you like those apples?

Constructive posts only please.

Moderator

michael999999

djimi wrote: »

People on welfare actually get money to pay their rent with. I work full time and am probably in more risk of not being able to afford my rent than someone who is on rent suppliment.

Unless you mean that there is more of a risk of someone on rent suppliment not actually paying their rent? How is the risk any greater than someone in full time employment deciding not to pay their rent?

Youre making a sweeping an unfair generalization.

Why are you even replying tothis guy, he's in another thread boasting about how he dodges paying he's car tax. He's trolling everyone!