How realistic is this?

bookshop101

I'm looking to develop an ecommerce site for our family bookshop business online. The type of site I am aiming for would be very similiar to the following:
http://www.easonschoolshop.com/School-Books/Primary
http://www.faganschoolbooks.ie/

These sites look reasonably simple (albeit very professional looking).

To summarise what I'm hoping for:

• Clear, easily navigated interface
• 2000-3000 product catalogue (basic info on each product; name, publisher, ISBN)
• I'd imagine we'd be using the standard payment gateways (Realex), hosting (Amazon cloud) and encryption (SSL).

What I'm really wondering is how long should it take to develop a site like this (from day 1 to go live)?
We have a budget of approximately €10-12k.

Is it realistic to hope to stay within this budget and get it completed in 10 weeks or so?


Would really appreciate any advice or pointers anyone can offer as I'm fairly clueless to be honest!

KonFusion

Are those products in any existing database?

bookshop101

Not currently in a database but I'd be able to get details, pictures, etc of the majority of those products from our suppliers. The designer I was speaking to said it would simply be a question of putting the details for each product into an excel doc for him and he could put them up from there.

Would it be possible (or even legal) to copy the basic product details from another website?

Kenny Logins

bookshop101 wrote: »

Not currently in a database but I'd be able to get details, pictures, etc of the majority of those products from our suppliers. The designer I was speaking to said it would simply be a question of putting the details for each product into an excel doc for him and he could put them up from there.

Would it be possible (or even legal) to copy the basic product details from another website?

From your competitors?

KonFusion

bookshop101 wrote: »

Not currently in a database but I'd be able to get details, pictures, etc of the majority of those products from our suppliers. The designer I was speaking to said it would simply be a question of putting the details for each product into an excel doc for him and he could put them up from there.

From previous experience of doing eCommerce sites (using Zencart & Magento - Recently moved to Shopify which fyi is so nice to use) with a lot of unique products, I remember we had 6 of us in the office for an entire day which consisted of purely inputting products and their details (or product matrices I believe their called?)

So that was super time consuming as you can imagine. If you could get the products already in a database which the designer could just import into whatever platform he's using, that'd cut down time by a lot.

So having that already done, built upon an existing platform such as OScommerce, Magento, Shopify etc, yup it could be gotten for roughly 10-12k. Maybe a bit more (or less) as the scope develops.

Assuming you've a decent dev and you both meet all the deadlines with required info, sign-offs and milestones etc, then yup 10 weeks would be possible. If it was me, I'd push you for 12, based on previous similar projects.

Edit: As for the legality of that, I've no idea, but I'm going to say it's probably not legal.

Also I'd consider getting a separate quote for SEO too. If you'd like recommendations for an SEO specialist, I'd be happy to recommend someone. Alternatively just google SEO and see which Irish company comes up first

bookshop101

KonFusion wrote: »

From previous experience of doing eCommerce sites (using Zencart & Magento - Recently moved to Shopify which fyi is so nice to use) with a lot of unique products, I remember we had 6 of us in the office for an entire day which consisted of purely inputting products and their details (or product matrices I believe their called?)

So that was super time consuming as you can imagine. If you could get the products already in a database which the designer could just import into whatever platform he's using, that'd cut down time by a lot.

So having that already done, built upon an existing platform such as OScommerce, Magento, Shopify etc, yup it could be gotten for roughly 10-12k. Maybe a bit more (or less) as the scope develops.

Assuming you've a decent dev and you both meet all the deadlines with required info, sign-offs and milestones etc, then yup 10 weeks would be possible. If it was me, I'd push you for 12, based on previous similar projects.

Edit: As for the legality of that, I've no idea, but I'm going to say it's probably not legal.

Also I'd consider getting a separate quote for SEO too. If you'd like recommendations for an SEO specialist, I'd be happy to recommend someone. Alternatively just google SEO and see which Irish company comes up first

The designer we're talking says we should go with opencart. How does this compare to other platforms do you think?

He has quoted us 2.5k for 6 months SEO and adword management. Is this a bit steep? I'm not obsessed with the idea of becoming one the top 5 search results for "bookshops ireland" or anything like that. It's really the local market that we're targeting this year. I'd definitely be interested in getting some recommendations for an SEO specialist, if you could PM that'd be great, thanks.

bookshop101

Kenny Logins wrote: »

From your competitors?

Ya from our competitors sites, the details (name, isbn, pictures etc) would be the same on all the 10/15 irish booksellers sites. Would it be fairly straight forward for a developer to lift the details of 2000 products or so from another site, is it something they'd even be willing to do (I'm thinking probably not)?

The alternative would be to get the details from our suppliers (shouldn't be too difficult).

I'm really just wondering would the large amount of products (approx. 2500) make it very difficult to get the site fully operational within 10 weeks?

KonFusion

bookshop101 wrote: »

The designer we're talking says we should go with opencart. How does this compare to other platforms do you think?

He has quoted us 2.5k for 6 months SEO and adword management. Is this a bit steep? I'm not obsessed with the idea of becoming one the top 5 search results for "bookshops ireland" or anything like that. It's really the local market that we're targeting this year. I'd definitely be interested in getting some recommendations for an SEO specialist, if you could PM that'd be great, thanks.

Opencart is fine. I'd just let your guy go with whatever he's most comfortable working with tbh.

As for the 2.5k, I don't know if that's good or bad. Don't do any SEO myself and every site is different in its aims/requirements, just as all designers/developers are not equal in skill, I'm sure it's the same for SEO, so pricing is not really relative.

I'll pm you the person we use for SEO now.

bookshop101

What do people think of these 2 websites:
http://www.easonschoolshop.com/School-Books/Primary
http://www.faganschoolbooks.ie/

Do ye think it would be feasible to develop something similiar for a budget in the region of 10k and within a 10 week timeframe?

ChRoMe

bookshop101 wrote: »

What do people think of these 2 websites:
http://www.easonschoolshop.com/School-Books/Primary
http://www.faganschoolbooks.ie/

Do ye think it would be feasible to develop something similiar for a budget in the region of 10k and within a 10 week timeframe?

Timeline seems a bit tight, but its doable.

bookshop101

Thanks for the replies guys.

Which platform do ye think would be best? I'm undecided whether to get the developer to use Opencart, Presto or Magento.

I can't decide which would be better for me; I need to be able to add/change categories and products myself easily once the developer is finished. I've heard opencart is good where there is a large number of products (2000/3000 in our case). Any thoughts?

devildriver

bookshop101 wrote: »

Ya from our competitors sites, the details (name, isbn, pictures etc) would be the same on all the 10/15 irish booksellers sites. Would it be fairly straight forward for a developer to lift the details of 2000 products or so from another site, is it something they'd even be willing to do (I'm thinking probably not)?

The alternative would be to get the details from our suppliers (shouldn't be too difficult).

I'm really just wondering would the large amount of products (approx. 2500) make it very difficult to get the site fully operational within 10 weeks?

Outside of the legality of taking the information from another site it's not really that feasible from a technical point of view. You can "scrape" infromation from another site but it can be quite messy and prone to errors.

You will ideally need all of the information in a "clean" format, like a csv file or xml file.

Getting the information from the suppliers is a much better idea. They will almost surely have Excel sheets of all their stock with all of the relevant information. If you have multiple suppliers there may be differences in the way their stocklists are formatted but with a little tweaking you should be able to import it all and map to the fields in your CMS.

You have a realistic budget which is nice to see for a change. But you might want to add an extra couple of weeks to the timeline.

OpenCart would probably be fine for the job. You should really base the choice of CMS on the features that you need. For instance if coupons and customer loyalty features are important they will probably be better implemented in some CMSs than others. So weight those options up carefully before making that choice. Magento does have a poor reputation with a lot of developers though as it can be unwieldy, difficult to skin and uses a lot of server resources.

To be honest 2500 isn't a huge amount of products - if the source data (the csv or xml file) is correctly formatted and matched to your CMS there will be little difference in importing 2500 products or 10,000 products.

Best of luck with it.

bookshop101

Cheers again for the feedback lads.

Another question - how important would it be to make the website mobile friendly? Are online consumers really more likely to buy on a mobile optimised e-commerce site over a non-optimised site? As a non-smart phone user it's something I've no experience in.

In terms of cost, would it be cost much more to make the site mobile friendly?

KonFusion

bookshop101 wrote: »

Another question - how important would it be to make the website mobile friendly?

Extremely important.

bookshop101

KonFusion wrote: »

Extremely important.

Really? To the extent that it would affect a smart phone using consumer's choice of online shop?

I've never browsed using a smart phone, is it very difficult to use a site that's non-mobile friendly?

Kenny Logins

bookshop101 wrote: »

Really? To the extent that it would affect a smart phone using consumer's choice of online shop?

I've never browsed using a smart phone, is it very difficult to use a site that's non-mobile friendly?

Yes, it can be very off-putting when you have to scroll about to see the page. Have a look here for an example of iPhone browsing a non-responsive site - http://screenqueri.es/ih1Be

Now go to http://www.irishtimes.com/ and try resizing your browser window (narrower), watch what happens to the page layout and menu.

MyBusinez.com

bookshop101 wrote: »

Really? To the extent that it would affect a smart phone using consumer's choice of online shop?

I've never browsed using a smart phone, is it very difficult to use a site that's non-mobile friendly?

It would definitely affect their willingness to buy if you didn't have a mobile or responsive website. Users can't get the full view of what is going on with the website if they have to scroll left, right and centre just to see important parts of the website. Viewing compatibility is paramount these days. In order to buy users have to trust the buyer and feel comfortable with your website. But if they can't navigate properly this would give them a negative view of the site.


More and more people are buying online and, from talking to internet users, I personally believe that some Irish people are becoming online shopping Junkies. The main reasons being:
1. Prices are often cheaper because you don't need to open a premesis to sell online.
2. It's is easier to research a product or service before buying.
3. Less hassle from sales people when buying a product.
4. Easier and quicker to shop around.
5. There is more variety in online shopping than ever before.


Today, there are more mobile devices than computers. The vast majority of people are online through smart phones and tablets. InsideIreland.ie recently had an article claiming that the Irish are amoung the top 10 buyers in the world. I notice the article is missing now so not sure why that is. But, in my daily life, I can definitely see a noticible increase in friends and family buying online and also talking about it online via Facebook etc...


Online shopping facts
1. 2.6 million Irish spend €116 per month shopping online - TheJournal.ie
2. The Irish spend €4bn per year online. - IrishIndependent.ie & Irishpressreleases.ie
3. 50% of Dubliners have shopped online - Insideireland.ie
4. More and more Irish shoppers are using their mobile phone to research products before buying - Purplepatch.ie/ irishpressreleases.ie
5. Retail giant, Argos, recently closed 75 bricks and mortar stores to open new online stores. - Telegraph.co.uk


I don't think anyone can deny that there is a definite upward trend of online buying and it is all starting on the mobile device which the often the most accessible device connected to the internet. So it's very important that your website visitors can view your site on their mobile phone and tablets.

B1gft

I love the online shopping facts information MyBusinez.com.

MyBusinez.com

B1gft wrote: »

I love the online shopping facts information MyBusinez.com.

Call them facts or shmacts but their is definitely truth in them and it's also true that online shops are the future. I have a number of clients who are doing very well by moving their businesses online. The more time, money and effort you invest in your online presence, the more return your will get on that investment... if it's done right obviously.

Kenny Logins

MyBusinez.com wrote: »

Call them facts or shmacts but their is definitely truth in them and it's also true that online shops are the future. I have a number of clients who are doing very well by moving their businesses online. The more time, money and effort you invest in your online presence, the more return your will get on that investment... if it's done right obviously.

You're doing well with no contact page...

MyBusinez.com

Kenny Logins wrote: »

You're doing well with no contact page...

If you're talking about Mybusinez.com I haven't touched it since 2009 and never had time to finish it or rebuild the design. I'm too busy working on other people's websites.

But if you like I can PM my portfolio to you so you can see what I've been working on for the last 3 years.
It includes financial management systems, document sharing, Mobile Apps, customised eCommerce systems, customer rewards, GPS systems, txt messaging systems, web design, automatic Route planning and driving directions based on bookings as well as time management systems for Transport companies and other customised CMS systems.

ChRoMe

MyBusinez.com wrote: »

GPS systems

Heh you might want to rephrase that one!

MyBusinez.com

ChRoMe wrote: »

Heh you might want to rephrase that one!

I would, but I'm sure you'd find something else to pick at on my posts. So I won't bother.

ChRoMe

MyBusinez.com wrote: »

I would, but I'm sure you'd find something else to pick at on my posts. So I won't bother.

Eh? Thats a bit defensive, I was merely pointing out that saying you created a GPS system, I'd imagine its not what you meant.