The mishandling of Lori, Andrea & michonne ....

PhiloCypher

.... borders on misogyny , two seasons running now they have turned a core female character into a pariah to the point that Sarah Wayne Callies and Laurie Holden have been accosted in the streets by fans . Now one could make an argument that perhaps its an all male writing staff who simply don't know how to write female characters but then how come Maggie and Carol are written competently. This to me leaves two options which are either gross incompetence or they have actively set out to make both characters pariahs so that either a)they can be redeemed or b)the excitement and anticipation of their death will drive the ratings up . Its a pretty sad state of affairs when a core female character has been written so poorly and made so unlikable you're looking forward to her death more then the season villain.

As for Michonne after defending her initial standoffishness I too became tired of the perma scowl and was glad to see her open up in the episode Clear but it should never have taken 12 episodes for her to string more then 2 words together, I just hope they can turn her around like they did Carol.

I wonder which character they will mangle next .

thoughts ?

Nervous Wreck

It doesn't help that Galles and Holden are annoying in general.... But Lori was always gonna be annoying. From the very start, we see her as kind of a dick. I mean, the show starts off following Rick and portraying him as the embodiment of a hero. We're endeared to him immediately. Then we see Lori and she's having an ongoing affair with his best friend and partner after what can only be a matter of weeks of him being in a coma/presumed dead. We didn't hate Lori for this in the comics because

it wasn't an ongoing thing. It was a one time slip that she regretted.

Also, in the comics, Lori is really seen as a source of strength for Rick. In the show, she kinda doesn't seem to know what way she's looking half the time...

PhiloCypher

What amazes me is that Kirkman hasn't thrown any Alan Mooresque strops and disowned the project but instead has towed the company line the entire time. He surely can't honestly think this show is actually doing justice to his comics , but then i suppose in these harsh economic times he can't really throw his toys out of the pram and turn down a paycheck. I hope at least the turnover in showrunners is down to him fighting his corner over the mishandling of characters he created , that mistakes have been recognized, and that this isn't just typical amc behind the scenes botchjob.

Jason Todd

PhiloCypher wrote: »

What amazes me is that Kirkman hasn't thrown any Alan Mooresque strops and disowned the project but instead has towed the company line the entire time. He surely can't honestly think this show is actually doing justice to his comics , but then i suppose in these harsh economic times he can't really throw his toys out of the pram and turn down a paycheck. I hope at least the turnover in showrunners is down to him fighting his corner over the mishandling of characters he created , that mistakes have been recognized, and that this isn't just typical amc behind the scenes botchjob.

I read somewhere that a lot of direction can come from Kirkman, and that a lot of what keeps him so involved with the TV show is that he has a second chance with the characters and finds it interesting to 'redo' things he regretted doing in the comic. I'll try dig out where I read that if I get a chance.

PhiloCypher

Jason Todd wrote: »

I read somewhere that a lot of direction can come from Kirkman, and that a lot of what keeps him so involved with the TV show is that he has a second chance with the characters and finds it interesting to 'redo' things he regretted doing in the comic. I'll try dig out where I read that if I get a chance.

So basically this is Kirkman pulling a Lucas with Lori Andrea and Michonne being the equivalent of greedo shooting first, Darths nooooooo and Hayden"rapist leer"Christensen being superimposed over Sebastian Shaws reformed Anakin. Shane extended run and the introduction of Daryl being the visual touch ups and removal of matte lines that we were ok with.

Jason Todd

PhiloCypher wrote: »

So basically this is Kirkman pulling a Lucas with Lori Andrea and Michonne being the equivalent of greedo shooting first, Darths nooooooo and Hayden"rapist leer"Christensen being superimposed over Sebastian Shaws reformed Anakin. Shane extended run and the introduction of Daryl being the visual touch ups and removal of matte lines that we were ok with.

Good analogy, but yeah, that was my reading of it!

tommy2bad

I think the problem is American TV's obsession with 2 guys one girl, Lost and True Blood both suffer from this guys fighting over a girl thing.

krudler

Jason Todd wrote: »

I read somewhere that a lot of direction can come from Kirkman, and that a lot of what keeps him so involved with the TV show is that he has a second chance with the characters and finds it interesting to 'redo' things he regretted doing in the comic. I'll try dig out where I read that if I get a chance.

I know there's definitely one character moment that he regrets, and I doubt they'll bring it into the tv show or they would have done it by now.

Jason Todd

This one?

Comic Book

http://mimg.ugo.com/201008/55841/cuts/issue27_288x384.jpg

krudler

Ha that'd be it alright.

giggii

I think the extended presence of Shane definitely had a massive part to play in the portrayal of Laurie in the show... In the comic,

They had a once off thing, Shane caused some conflict and was dead by the time they got the Hershall's farm

so we actually got to see Laurie as a character that regretted her past actions, and started with a fresh slate. We had none of this "you have to/can't kill Shane" crap. And she was a lot stronger and more likeable as a result.

Michonne is growing on me I must admit. I was initially disappointed by her lack of emotion and badassary in the first half of the show, but I've come around to her, and she's beginning to act like the Michonne of the comics. I think the major fault with the portrayal is the absence of the pivotal Michonne scene (for me anyway...)

Where after several days of being brutally raped, she gets her revenge on the Gov by mutilating him in several ways

The absence of this scene is obviously down to censorship worries, but I think the way the substituted similar-ish storylines fell a little bit flat...

Andrea for me is the biggest disappointment. She is one of my favourite characters in the comics and the TV portrayal has been nothing but a let down. At this stage in the show she should have a couple of scars and using a gun like it's her own arm, not some idiot who hops into bed with the first man who has a little bit of authority. Fine, comic book andrea has had a few men too, but it's more of a side story at all times, not her whole character!! The TV portrayal of her was redeemed a little in the last few episodes, but it's too little too late for me, I sincerely hope they kill her off by the end of this season...

PhiloCypher

giggii wrote: »

I think the extended presence of Shane definitely had a massive part to play in the portrayal of Laurie in the show... In the comic,

They had a once off thing, Shane caused some conflict and was dead by the time they got the Hershall's farm

so we actually got to see Laurie as a character that regretted her past actions, and started with a fresh slate. We had none of this "you have to/can't kill Shane" crap. And she was a lot stronger and more likeable as a result.

Michonne is growing on me I must admit. I was initially disappointed by her lack of emotion and badassary in the first half of the show, but I've come around to her, and she's beginning to act like the Michonne of the comics. I think the major fault with the portrayal is the absence of the pivotal Michonne scene (for me anyway...)

Where after several days of being brutally raped, she gets her revenge on the Gov by mutilating him in several ways

The absence of this scene is obviously down to censorship worries, but I think the way the substituted similar-ish storylines fell a little bit flat...

Andrea for me is the biggest disappointment. She is one of my favourite characters in the comics and the TV portrayal has been nothing but a let down. At this stage in the show she should have a couple of scars and using a gun like it's her own arm, not some idiot who hops into bed with the first man who has a little bit of authority. Fine, comic book andrea has had a few men too, but it's more of a side story at all times, not her whole character!! The TV portrayal of her was redeemed a little in the last few episodes, but it's too little too late for me, I sincerely hope they kill her off by the end of this season...

Same here , for me they have botched her beyond repair and personally I would rather they cut their losses at this stage , maggie and/or Carol can fill in the kickass sniper role that Andrea filled in the comic.

giggii

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Same here , for me they have botched her beyond repair and personally I would rather they cut their losses at this stage , maggie and/or Carol can fill in the kickass sniper role that Andrea filled in the comic.

Maggie in particular, she's the only one who got a shot in during the prison shootout with the gov and co...
Carol has been a big improvement on her comic book character, she's become a great character in the show, whereas in the comics she just irritated me and frankly I was delighted when

she made a conscious decision to become walker bait...

DeepBlue

I'd argue that only Andrea's character has been mis-handled. And to call it misogyny is a bit of a stretch.
Holden is miscast anyway in the role. Andrea would seem to be mid to late twenties in the comics and Holden is too old to play her and too rigid to boot.
Andrea would have been a comic book favourite for many but I'd say the TV show version would probably rank below Merle and the Governor :pac: and everyone else. Her arrogant self-importance alone would piss anyone off.

Lori was a pain in the ass in the comics as much as the show so they got that right. They've also greatly improved the characters of Maggie and Carol as they are far more baddass in the TV show than they ever were in the comics.

FlyingIrishMan

Carol is so much better in the TV show compared to the comics, I hated her in the comics. She doesn't do a whole lot in the show, but she doesn't give me any reasons to dislike her.

I also kinda like TV show Hershel better, he isn't as angry all the time.

Maggie is far better in the tv show too.

Really I think character wise they've ****ed up some characters, and improved others. Andrea is definitely the biggest disappointment in my opinion, Michonne barely said anything in the comics up until they left the prison really except for a few moments where she was involved in conflict. So I'm hoping they'll improve on her in season 4, she has already started to get better since the episode 'Clear'

PhiloCypher

DeepBlue wrote: »

I'd argue that only Andrea's character has been mis-handled. And to call it misogyny is a bit of a stretch.
Holden is miscast anyway in the role. Andrea would seem to be mid to late twenties in the comics and Holden is too old to play her and too rigid to boot.
Andrea would have been a comic book favourite for many but I'd say the TV show version would probably rank below Merle and the Governor :pac: and everyone else. Her arrogant self-importance alone would piss anyone off.

Lori was a pain in the ass in the comics as much as the show so they got that right. They've also greatly improved the characters of Maggie and Carol as they are far more baddass in the TV show than they ever were in the comics.

Lori was merely flawed in the comics , in the midst of the chaos and despair and thinking she had lost her husband she sought comfort in her husbands best friend , beyond that I can't really remember anything else to make her all that unlikable certainly nothing on the level of her machiavellian antics in the show where she hints at Shane that the baby is his(setting him on coarse for his attempt on Ricks life), tells Rick Shane is a threat and then has the nerve to go mental at him when he deals with the threat she instigated.

Yes Maggie and Carol are marked improvements on their Comic counterparts, and an argument could be made that the males in the show haven't been greatly served by the writers in this show either but there is a big difference between giving T-Dog & Tyreese nothing to do and two seasons running turning core female characters into pariahs . It may not be intentional misogyny but to me it seems like they save all the poor life choices for the women.

IronE Singleton would have killed to have had enough screen time to be hated :P

tommy2bad

IronE Singleton would have killed to have had enough screen time to be hated

This +1

Nervous Wreck

Against the grain here: Carol annoys me on the show and I thought she was great in the comics. She bores me in the show and suddenly she's a 'badass'. Apart from her cringey interaction with Axel ("I'm not a lezzer but you still got no chance![/sass]") and her over the top strange interaction with Andrea ("Ride his balls off and slice him up![/deviant]), she's been a wet blanket since the show started. In the comics, she at least had something interesting about her. She was the first character (from what I remember) who became so unhinged by everything that happened that she just gave up. That was interesting to me and I think they missed an opportunity there in favour of having a 'sassy' character and a frankly unbelievable background love story with Daryl.

PhiloCypher

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Against the grain here: Carol annoys me on the show and I thought she was great in the comics. She bores me in the show and suddenly she's a 'badass'. Apart from her cringey interaction with Axel ("I'm not a lezzer but you still got no chance![/sass]") and her over the top strange interaction with Andrea ("Ride his balls off and slice him up![/deviant]), she's been a wet blanket since the show started. In the comics, she at least had something interesting about her. She was the first character (from what I remember) who became so unhinged by everything that happened that she just gave up. That was interesting to me and I think they missed an opportunity there in favour of having a 'sassy' character and a frankly unbelievable background love story with Daryl.

What annoys me about carol is why in the midst of a zombie apocalypse she continues to take the time to maintain her blade 4 buzz cut. Same with T-Dog when he was still of this world.

Nervous Wreck

Could be argued that her haircut is to a) keep some semblance of the person she used to be and/or b) avoid getting grabbed by the hair by zombies. In reality though, it's just an actress unwilling to commit to the role and let herself look stupid with stupid scraggly hair! How unprofessional! :pac:

Jason Todd

Just my two cents, but Lori in the comic was a nothing character for me, she was just there to give Rick something to fight for and protect. At least in the show she got about (so to speak ) and made you think something about her one way or the other.

On Carol, I don't think she's a badass as such, but she lost her husband, lost her daughter and is still going, and I find the relationship with Daryl sweet, I much prefer her in the show. Jacqui was the charcater in the show who gave up, although

how she went out was nowhere near as cool as how comic-book Carol does.

As as for the hair thing... there is definite growth!