Unfinished Estates - Group

KevIRL

Hi All

I live on an Unfinished Housing Estate and was wondering firstly does any national grouping or association exist for residents of Unfinished Housing Estates or Developments exist?

If not, I think it might be a good idea to get one going. We all face a lot of the same issues and are probably fighting similar individual battles with developers, local and national authorities etc. It would be good to share information and also a unified voice could help to put pressure on authorities to assist us in resolving our many issues.

I should point out I have no political affliliation, and also worth noting I have no idea on how to get this off the ground if it doesnt already exist. I guess this an effort to a)find out if something already exists and b)to sense check if others feel it would be worthwhile

Le_Dieux

KevIRL wrote: »

Hi All

I live on an Unfinished Housing Estate and was wondering firstly does any national grouping or association exist for residents of Unfinished Housing Estates or Developments exist?

If not, I think it might be a good idea to get one going. We all face a lot of the same issues and are probably fighting similar individual battles with developers, local and national authorities etc. It would be good to share information and also a unified voice could help to put pressure on authorities to assist us in resolving our many issues.

I should point out I have no political affliliation, and also worth noting I have no idea on how to get this off the ground if it doesnt already exist. I guess this an effort to a)find out if something already exists and b)to sense check if others feel it would be worthwhile

Kev

I'm in Newbridge. I was heavily involved in our RA up to last year when I stood down.

But I would support You in the drive here. Please keep me informed, and feel free to PM me, if You wish.

KevIRL

The latest in the farcial situation continues. I got a notification from our local Authority today that we are not eligible for a maintenance grant which other finished estates can avail of.

So we have to pay the property tax like everyone else as we are 'finished' but on the other hand when it suits them we are 'unfinished'

KevIRL

I was on Newstalk lunchtime today talking about the situation in our estate

http://www.newstalk.ie/We-feel-so-neglected-and-abandoned

If anyone wants to get in touch re possibly setting up something let me know

Le_Dieux

KevIRL wrote: »

I was on Newstalk lunchtime today talking about the situation in our estate

http://www.newstalk.ie/We-feel-so-neglected-and-abandoned

If anyone wants to get in touch re possibly setting up something let me know

Kev, You get to hear phil the lip on News at one ( RTE 1 radio ) today? Bombastic arrogant f****r if I ever heard one!!! Read here: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/phil-hogan-no-uturn-on-ghost-estate-homeowners-paying-property-tax-29174571.html

anoda_username

I too live in an unfinished housing estate, in co Galway. We like most others are not on the exempt list for the property tax. Our management company is gone we got a letter last autumn stating gone into liquidation...no idea what is going to happen with maintaining the estate. the houses that are empty are gone to nama. We have no residence association. However, there are boards up all around the estate the developer put them up a cheap alternate to fencing, these keep falling down and are an eye sore. I would like to do something about the situation but don't know where to start

LFC Murphy

I'm chair of our RA (technically unfinished, roads, lights etc). I'm willing to lend a hand.

many voices outweigh the single voice.

I north Co Galway by the way

KevIRL

anoda_username wrote: »

I too live in an unfinished housing estate, in co Galway. We like most others are not on the exempt list for the property tax. Our management company is gone we got a letter last autumn stating gone into liquidation...no idea what is going to happen with maintaining the estate. the houses that are empty are gone to nama. We have no residence association. However, there are boards up all around the estate the developer put them up a cheap alternate to fencing, these keep falling down and are an eye sore. I would like to do something about the situation but don't know where to start

LFC Murphy wrote: »

I'm chair of our RA (technically unfinished, roads, lights etc). I'm willing to lend a hand.

many voices outweigh the single voice.

I north Co Galway by the way

Hey Guys

I'm a bit busy this weekend, but will drop you both a PM on Monday.

If we could get a grouping going it would surely be beneficial to us all.

Kev

Cedrus

This is what ACRA were originally founded for, well strictly speaking it was to get the local authorities to take their estates In Charge. They weren't considered cool when we thought we we loaded but they were very helpful when we were setting up our RA.

At the end of the day though, you do have to get a bunch of people who are dedicated enough to put in the effort to run a RA. There isn't a monster amount to do but when it needs doing it can't be put off.

I'm interested in this maintenance grant somebody mentioned?

EDIT Looking at their shiny new website a few years after my initial dealings with them, I'm not sure about recommending them, they seem to have degenerated into a blame everyone else, pay nothing yourself group instead of the positive group they used to be.

A2LUE42

Find out who your reciever is. Get all issues in writing to them. Get HSA in to do an audit and report of all issues.
Arrange meeting with residents association and relevant council reps( Planner. County engineer. Etc) and reciever.
Get residents association working. As per Dail questions asked by Ml McNamara last year for our residents association. If you get a majority of residents in estate to put request to council to take over estate, they have to take it in charge.
Refer to unfinished housing estate guifelines

A2LUE42

Cedrus wrote: »

I'm interested in this maintenance grant somebody mentioned?

Look up the Council website for your county and see what you can apply for grants for. Hurry with this, it may be close to cut off dates.

A2LUE42

Question Nos. 432 and 433


Chun an Aire Comhshaoil, Pobail agus Rialtais Áitiúil:
To the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government:

To ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if the conditions of an An Bord Pleanála planning decision are not met and the development is in the hands of a liquidator, who then does the local planning enforcement office enforce the conditions to; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
To ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if the conditions of an An Bord Pleanála planning decision are not met and the development is in the hands of a receiver, who then does the local planning enforcement office enforce the conditions to; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

- Michael McNamara.

For WRITTEN answer on Tuesday, 14th February, 2012.

Ref Nos: 7843/12 and 7844/12
REPLY

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Mr. P. Hogan)


I propose to take Questions Nos. 432 and 433 together

The developer of, for example, a residential estate is statutorily required to complete the development in accordance with the terms of the planning permission. A development which has not been completed in accordance with the planning permission is unauthorised development. Enforcement of planning control is a matter for the planning authority, which can take action where a development requiring planning permission has not obtained this permission or where permission has not been complied with.

Planning authorities have substantial enforcement powers under the Planning and Development Act 2000. A planning authority may issue an enforcement notice, non-compliance with which is an offence, in connection with unauthorised development (which includes failure to comply with planning conditions) requiring such steps as the authority considers necessary to be taken within a specified period. If an enforcement notice is not complied with the planning authority may itself take the specified steps and recover the expense incurred in doing so. A planning authority may also seek a court order requiring any particular action to be taken or not to be taken.

The Planning Acts also place clear statutory obligations on planning authorities in relation to unauthorised development. A planning authority must issue a warning letter in relation to written complaints regarding unauthorised development or other unauthorised development it becomes aware of (except in the case of trivial or minor development). The planning authority must then carry out an investigation and where it establishes following such an investigation that unauthorised development (other than development that is of a trivial or minor nature) has been or is being carried out, and the person who has carried out or is carrying out the development has not proceeded to remedy the position, the planning authority must issue an enforcement notice or make an application for a court order unless there are compelling reasons for not doing so.

The 2000 Planning Act also contains other relevant provisions in relation to the completion of housing estates:
· Sections 34(4)(g) and 180(2)(b) of the Act provide that a planning authority may attach a condition to a planning permission requiring the giving of adequate security for the satisfactory completion of a development, and, if the development is not subsequently completed satisfactorily, may apply the security to that satisfactory completion.
· Section 160 of the Act provides that a planning authority may apply to the Circuit Court or the High Court for an order requiring that a development be carried out in accordance with the permission.

Accordingly, planning authorities have very substantial powers to compel the completion of housing estates by developers in accordance with the terms of the planning permission.

Section 180 of the 2000 Planning Act provided that where estates have not been completed to the satisfaction of the planning authority and enforcement proceedings have not been commenced within the relevant period, the planning authority must, if requested to do so by the majority of the residents of the estate, initiate the procedures for taking the estate in charge. A further provision has been added in the 2010 Act to provide that a planning authority may take in charge an unfinished estate, at the request of the owners of the housing units, at any time after the expiration of the planning permission, in situations where enforcement actions have commenced or where the planning authority consider that enforcement action will not result in the satisfactory completion of the estate by the developer. Planning authorities have also been empowered to take in charge part of an estate or some, but not all, of the facilities in an estate.

The decision as whether to take an estate is taken in charge is ultimately one for the elected members of a local authority.

Legislation and issues arising in the context of company law are a matter for my colleague, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. However, in general the liquidation of a company is the process under which assets are collected and disposed of and the resulting proceeds are applied, if there are sufficient funds, in discharging the company’s liabilities. The balance, if any, which remains after paying the costs and expenses of a liquidation is distributed among the members of the company according to their rights and interests or as set out in the company’s constitutional documents.

Michael McNamara, T.D.
Dáil Éireann,
Leinster House,
Kildare Street,
Dublin 2

tel (01) 6184879

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012021400283?opendocument

Le_Dieux

A2LUE42

Many thanks for the above post. I am particularly interested in the piece You highlighted........MOST interesting. As I am living in Newbridge, would Kildare County Council be our planning authority?


I am meeting with someone from a daily national paper this Saturday, and hoping to line up a reporter to do a story on our case. I accept we are only one of many in this country. But we must start somewhere.

GREAT WORK!

G

LFC Murphy

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Find out who your reciever is. Get all issues in writing to them. Get HSA in to do an audit and report of all issues.
Arrange meeting with residents association and relevant council reps( Planner. County engineer. Etc) and reciever.
Get residents association working. As per Dail questions asked by Ml McNamara last year for our residents association. If you get a majority of residents in estate to put request to council to take over estate, they have to take it in charge.
Refer to unfinished housing estate guifelines

Regarding the point of the majority vote resulting in the estate being taken in charge... we conducted a plebacite a few years ago but nothing came of it. The taking in charge application was rejected by the council... and all we have issues with it top layer of tarmac and two sites out of 200 not finished.

So my point is that if we are struggling then no one has a hope in this country...

mrwhite2

Any update on this. I know I might sound stupid but if the majority of the residents vote to get the estate taken in charge what is the downside. I am guessing that maybe the council fix the problems and bill the residents for work

Lex Luthor

Please PM me if anybody has any further progress with this
I am also being held liable for the LPT and the revenue has now stopped any tax rebate that I am due for 2014 as I have been trying to get the CoCo to put the development on the unfinished list under Exemption D for over 2yrs but falling on deaf ears

LFC Murphy

Hi Lex,

You will not strong arm the council in this, and revenue will ignore these issues.

Just be mindful of penalties etc

Lantus

There is a huge tract of people who don't have any real voice or central point they can go to for advice or representation. Residents Associations, unfinished estates, receivers, management companies, taking in charge processes and so on. Many of these are intertwined and overlapping and often complicated and highly specific to each development. Makes it very easy for local authorities and other state bodies to ride rough shod over property owners because of the complexity and fragmented nature of the system.

The PSRA made very small inroads towards addressing this problem but its core function is regulating estate agents and managing agents. I also have not heard or seen of any agent being fined or prosecuted and there are serious questions being asked about this agency as to whether it is even capable of doing what it should be as a minimum. (The generally held view is that it cannot.)

Although I'm no fan of quangos there is a gaping hole here that needs to be plugged that brings together all legislation and creates a one stop shop for all property issues like this with solid powers to back it up. The issues of receivers in particular is critical as it was almost certainly never intended they control estates especially as their legal obligations are almost zero. scary stuff is yet to come out of the wreckage of the last property bubble.

Lex Luthor

ended up paying the 2012 charge with an additional €100 penalty
Guy in revenue just said keep persuing them and if they put it on the list I will get a refund
small consolation but at least I have the revenue off my back and my med1 claim was released