A fourth major - Chicago 2013

drquirky

Peckham wrote: »

Tuesday 10th September

I am absolutely knackered, shattered, over-trained...call it what you like. Another aborted run this evening. Plan was 20 miles including 8 x 5 minutes at T-pace. Outcome was 9 miles with 1 x 5 minutes at T-pace. Just couldn't get into it - lots of excuses, but what do they matter.

Taking tomorrow off. Maybe a few very easy miles on Thursday/Friday. Not sure what to do about Athlone - a failed attempt at sub-80 could destroy all confidence. Maybe take it at PMP.

Feeling fairly down, and Mrs P says I look terrible. Need to regroup for the few weeks that are left. Lots of work done, need to make sure it doesn't go to waste.

Peckham. We have similar time goals and ran fairly similar times in the Nat HM. I've been looking at your training over the last few weeks and it just hasn't contained anywhere near the amount of "easy" running that you need to recover from your tough sessions. That 20 miles w/ 8x5 mins at T pace just sounds ridiculous in the context of what you've been doing and I think even attempting it in the week of a HM you intend on racing is insane.

I reckon I've been doing close enough to the amount of milage you've done but I'd say about half the intensity- and I still just took three days off w/ a calf niggle and the first time I've run a temperature in like 3 years. I don't know if you are following Daniels but tbh imo he is excessive and a promoter of an American system that I've seen firsthand destroy good University athletes at home I'd cut seriously back on the over the top sessions- its pretty clear you aren't recovering from them. You've done excellent work there so far. Very little time left and I would imagine if you just keep the easy running/ lsr/ occasional PMP stuff going you'll find yourself in better shape at the start line than if you continue to hammer.

I have no doubt that you are in significantly faster HM shape than what you ran at the Nat HM but in your current state- you may not be able to run that this weekend. If it were me I'd back wayyyy off for the next 5 or 6 days or so and let your body heal and recover. Sorry to be offering so much critique but it just looks like you're at a fairly critical stage here- imo if you back off a bit and let your body take the gains from all your super tough sessions you'll absolutely smash Chicago. If you don't back off and continue to push- I THINK you'll wind up overtrained and possibly injured. Tell me to **** off if you think otherwise but it just really struck me reading your log how tough your session/ long run combos/ races have been and how wrecked you see. Anyway good luck with whatever you decided to do- you've done a ton of good work just keep remembering that and be sensible!

ThePiedPiper

Few days of easy running will do you the world of good Peckham. Very hard to know whether the less is more approach or hitting all the mileage targets is the way to go at this stage. My body has been trying to tell me to go easy on itself for a couple of weeks now, but I'm not sure if I'm losing conditioning. This 2:50 target really is a bit of a step into the unknown, we might not even figure out until 13th October if the approaches we've taken have worked.

Looking forward to meeting up Saturday anyway, and take it as it comes.

TRR

Definitely take a couple of handy days. If your mrs says you look awful maybe you're a little run down. Have you checked iron or red blood cell count? Whatever you decide to do regards racing training etc is your own choice and something you'll have to decide on.

The one thing I'll say is there is nothing wrong turning up to the start line with 80-90% of all planned sessions completed but feeling fresh and ready to roll. Worst thing you can do is hit 100% of sessions and feel like crap on the start line. From experience I know which camp I'd rather be in.

Peckham

Thanks all. Some sage advice there which I'm taking on board. Seriously, this must be one of the most supportive and helpful forums on this website!

Have put a lot of thought into things over the past 24 hours, and two decisions have been made.

1) No trip to Athlone this weekend. Nothing to be gained from that trip, but lots could be lost

2) Bye bye Jack Daniels. Really a decision that should have been made a few weeks ago, but time to go back to the trusty Pfitzinger plan (which looking at the first post in this thread was what I had planned on doing in the first place). Will jump in to the final weeks of the 18/70 plan, whilst being pretty flexible with next week.

drquirky wrote: »

If it were me I'd back wayyyy off for the next 5 or 6 days or so and let your body heal and recover. Sorry to be offering so much critique but it just looks like you're at a fairly critical stage here- imo if you back off a bit and let your body take the gains from all your super tough sessions you'll absolutely smash Chicago. If you don't back off and continue to push- I THINK you'll wind up overtrained and possibly injured. Tell me to **** off if you think otherwise

**** off! :P No, seriously - thanks for your long post. Backing wayyy off for the next 5 or 6 days is exactly what I'll be doing.

RunForestRun wrote: »

This 2:50 target really is a bit of a step into the unknown, we might not even figure out until 13th October if the approaches we've taken have worked.

I've a feeling the approach you've taken is more suited to the objective. Sure, whatever happens, the beers will taste good afterwards (before your drunken flight home!)

TRR wrote: »

Have you checked iron or red blood cell count?

Nope, haven't checked either, but I think it's safe to say I probably am run down. Was in bed at 9.30 last night (need to make a point of doing that for the next while - with a 2 year old and a 5 month pregnant wife, things wind down fairly early in this house!). Also bought some Pharmaton today, so will be popping those up until raceday.

menoscemo

Peckham wrote: »

1) No trip to Athlone this weekend. Nothing to be gained from that trip, but lots could be lost

I'm going down to Athlone and running but not racing. Give me a shout if you need me to do any refereeing duties....

Peckham

menoscemo wrote: »

I'm going down to Athlone and running but not racing. Give me a shout if you need me to do any refereeing duties....

I have complete faith that no-one here would try and jeopardise the good spirit of this forum by cheating.

(Keep an eye out for ringers)

pa4

Taking a handy week will do no harm at all. You have built up a good base already, your training up until now will still stand too you once you get back right again. I often have too back off from training every once in a while and I always come back feeling twice as strong. As for pharmaton, I take that myself and find it great.

blockic

Fair play for taking the harder choice and looking at the longer goal, a poor time on Saturday could have knocked you right back, this way you still have weeks and time to rectify it.

I reckon a few days of low and easy mileage and you'll be back much stronger.

The work you have done up to now will stand to you no doubt.

Cheers for organising the Athlone comp, I'll ensure there is no cheating and that I win!

statss

Been reading the log with interest for a while,

I operate at a much lower level than you, but I was away the other weekend, after having been feeling very fatigued beforehand in general from the 18/55 plan. The trip away forced me to have 3 days off / easy...I came back on the Tuesday with a mighty spring in my step feeling great.

Enjoy a few days off/easy for yourself. Good mental break at the very least.

Peckham

The recovery

Took Wednesday, Thursday and Friday off. Got plenty of sleep and felt great heading into the weekend. Got around 9-10 hours sleep on Friday night – can’t remember the last time I did that. By Thursday Mrs P was telling me I looked less yellow, so I suppose that’s a good sign.

Plan for the weekend was two runs totalling 10 miles. A nice sunshine 4.5 mile jaunt around the local roads on Saturday, and then a rain sodden 6 mile run in Phoenix Park on Sunday morning waiting for Amphibian King to open. Didn’t monitor the pace on either run, and was surprised to see Sunday’s average pace of 7:07, given how easy it felt and the howling wind I was running into.

Onto the P&D plan this week. Two sessions scheduled – one session with long intervals at 5k pace and maybe a progressive long run on Saturday. The rest will be easy, easy, easy miles with some strides thrown in.

Peckham

Monday 18th September

6 miles @ 7:04 pace

Didn't get out until 8.30 as Mrs P was working late, so only time for a 45 minute run. Decided to wear the DS Racers in order to get very comfortable in them before race day. Did two laps of the town and really felt the benefit of the rest days. Pace picked up during the run and finished with a 6:40 mile that felt pretty easy. Not exactly easy easy, but easy all the same!

Plan is to do 6x1200 at 5k pace this evening, but I fear work might get in the way and will be postponed until tomorrow.

T minus 26 days.

Peckham

Tuesday 17th September

6 miles @ 7:07 pace

Same route and essentially the same pace as Monday. The only differences were the shoes (Brooks Adrenaline) and the audio (music rather than Alan Partridge). Pace naturally got faster throughout, but felt significantly easier than Monday and was surprised average pace was so fast at the end.

ThePiedPiper

Can't believe we're just three weeks out now.. How you feeling, mentally and physically about 2:50? Getting towards that time I'm starting thinking of race strategy, considering 2:55 pace til about 10-12 miles in the hope of moving it on after that, or hanging on for 2:54 if the wheels come off..

Even splits all the way or you planning negative splitting?

Peckham

RunForestRun wrote: »

Can't believe we're just three weeks out now.. How you feeling, mentally and physically about 2:50? Getting towards that time I'm starting thinking of race strategy, considering 2:55 pace til about 10-12 miles in the hope of moving it on after that, or hanging on for 2:54 if the wheels come off..

Even splits all the way or you planning negative splitting?

Not feeling 100%, but who does at this stage?! The many abandoned sessions of the past few weeks are really playing on my mind, and I look at your log and worry about my lack of PMP miles. 2:49 feels like a longshot, but I don't feel motivated by 2:5X. Have a progressive run this weekend and will be aiming to finish faster than 6:25 pace. Guess I'll know more after that.

You should be brimming with confidence.

ThePiedPiper

don't know about brimming with confidence but trying to make sure I get back the spark I had a few weeks ago.. It took me four proper efforts to run sub 3 so I'm not taking 2:4x for granted for a second.. Blockic could end up stealing the show on the lot of us the way he's going!

TRR

RunForestRun wrote: »

don't know about brimming with confidence but trying to make sure I get back the spark I had a few weeks ago.. It took me four proper efforts to run sub 3 so I'm not taking 2:4x for granted for a second.. Blockic could end up stealing the show on the lot of us the way he's going!

In my experience if a Cork boyo beats you he won't let you forget about it. Just saying lads, your life will be ruined if you let that junior cert student beat ye.

blockic

TRR wrote: »

In my experience if a Cork boyo beats you he won't let you forget about it. Just saying lads, your life will be ruined if you let that junior cert student beat ye.

Some langer! ..Off with ye lads to run yere race, I'll be watching on from behind!

Ye both should be feeling good, Peckham with the amount of 20+ long runs in the bag and RFR with all those PMP miles that you cruised! I've no intention of seeing 2:4X, but I'll be ready to pounce on blow-ups!

Krusty_Clown

Peckham wrote: »

Not feeling 100%, but who does at this stage?! The many abandoned sessions of the past few weeks are really playing on my mind, and I look at your log and worry about my lack of PMP miles. 2:49 feels like a longshot, but I don't feels motivated by 2:5X. Have a progressive run this weekend and will be aiming to finish faster than 6:25 pace. Guess I'll know more after that.

You should be brimming with confidence.

Worth bearing in mind that you did the guts of a 12 mile pmp run with me in the park. That's as much as you would have done had you been following the P&D plan, as per your original strategy. I guess it comes down to whether it's worth taking the risk of a blow-up to hit your 2:50 goal. Easy to say, but if I were in your shoes, I'd go for it.

Peckham

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I guess it comes down to whether it's worth taking the risk of a blow-up to hit your 2:50 goal. Easy to say, but if I were in your shoes, I'd go for it.

That’s the mindset I’m in too. It’s likely to be another few years before I do my next marathon or any serious training, and probable that my fitness will decline to the extent that I won’t get into sub-2:50 shape again (sure I’ll be over 40 at that stage! ). If 2:58 is to be my lifetime PB, then so be it.

However, I’m only willing to take this risk if the numbers are in my favour. The way I look at it, you’re never 100% guaranteed a particular time in a race as there are all those things out of your control, and at best you’re probably 85% likely to hit the time if everything has gone your way in training. I don’t think I’m at that level, but would be willing to take the risk of a blow-up if I had a 40-50% chance of hitting the target.

Peckham

Another pretty poor week. Frustrating that the summer went so well but it’s ending as a bit of a damp squib (I went too hard too soon). Had two key sessions last week that I needed to hit – 6 x 1200 @ 5k pace and 2 hour run with 1 hour PMP.

Didn’t do the first session – well, I started it and the battery died on the Garmin during the first rep. Started the second rep but didn’t have a clue of pace, distance and was doing it all in the dark so abandoned it. Postponed it until the following evening and then got stuck in work rather late, so session never happened.

That put all the focus on yesterday’s progressive long run. Was up in Donegal for the weekend, and got back home mid-afternoon. Guessed the roads would be quiet during the match, so headed out at halftime. Plan was 45 minutes easy, 1 hr PMP, 15 minutes easy. The first segment took me up and over a hill to a nice flat stretch along by the coast to do most of the 1 hr PMP. Having had easy miles all week, legs were effectively as fresh as they could be so pace should be easily handled. Found the 45 minutes easy to be very easy, and pace was comfortably ticking along around the 7 minute pace, despite efforts to bring it down a bit. After 45 minutes, I stopped, took a gel and water and ploughed into the PMP. After half a mile I was cruising at around 6 minute pace and eased off. After a mile I was still ahead of target, but was working harder than I should be. An hour at this pace (on fresh legs) was going to prove difficult, a marathon at this pace was now incredibly unlikely. Decision made, the sub-2:50 target is gone. Pulled up at the side of the road, and to be honest quite relieved.

Took some water and started back to easy pace, but was naturally gravitating towards 6:45 pace. Did a decent few miles at that pace, and rounded off as a total of 15 miles at 6:56 pace.

So, that’s that. Feeling very positive about it all now, and back to where I started with the focus now firmly set on that 2:58 PB and finishing Chicago with a smile (rather than a blow up and some Cork youngster coming flying past me somewhere around the 16 mile point ). Exact race target/strategy still to be decided.

Sorry, RFR – you’re on your own on race day.

BeepBeep67

Enjoy the taper, don't write anything off yet.
Maybe head out at 2:55 pace and play it by ear for the 2nd half.

ThePiedPiper

Its such a fine line, and very hard to pinpoint if you're overtraining but you're probably making a good decision.. 2:55 of any interest?

Peckham

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Enjoy the taper, don't write anything off yet.
Maybe head out at 2:55 pace and play it by ear for the 2nd half.

RunForestRun wrote: »

Its such a fine line, and very hard to pinpoint if you're overtraining but you're probably making a good decision.. 2:55 of any interest?

I'd say this is likely to be the plan. Will head off at that sort of pace and see what happens. Maybe stick with blockic and then outkick him over the final few hundred metres as he has flashbacks to Rotterdam!

TRR

Peckham wrote: »

I'd say this is likely to be the plan. Will head off at that sort of pace and see what happens. Maybe stick with blockic and then outkick him over the final few hundred metres as he has flashbacks to Rotterdam!

Good plan but be careful, he's from Cork. If there is an on course referee he will probably impede you in some way. The Cork hurlers have been getting that preferential referee treatment all year

blockic

Peckham wrote: »

I'd say this is likely to be the plan. Will head off at that sort of pace and see what happens. Maybe stick with blockic and then outkick him over the final few hundred metres as he has flashbacks to Rotterdam!

TRR wrote: »

Good plan but be careful, he's from Cork. If there is an on course referee he will probably impede you in some way. The Cork hurlers have been getting that preferential referee treatment all year

I thought today was good samaritan day TRR after your thoughtfulness in the Bros Pierce thread! Obviously not! Great to kick people while they are down! :pac:

Tough decision Peckham but the fact that you are relieved may result in it being the correct one, you should knock off that PB with ease, but by just how much is your dilemma!

Even with your readjustment I reckon I will still be behind ya though, no decisions made yet..

Peckham

Monday 23rd September

6 miles @ 7:25 pace

Kind of tapering, but not really as I’ve effectively been doing that for the last two weeks so need to ramp up the intensity a little this week. Late enough heading out, so it was two laps of my normal 3 mile loop. I was warned to stay out for 45 minutes so as not to distract Mrs P as she paid homage to the latest episode of Breaking Bad! Right calf was a little tight after Sunday, so was mindful of this but pace felt easy even though it was drifting into 7:0X. Eased off a good bit on the pace and home just under the 45 minute mark, even though my return wasn’t even acknowledged as it was into the final 5 minutes of Breaking Bad!

Calf still a little tight today (tighter than yesterday). Will probably take a rest day today and get some dry needling done on it tonight.

Peckham

Tuesday 24th September

Rest and dry-needling session. Lying in the sitting room floor with Mrs P sticking needles into my leg whilst she watches Great British Bake Off. Doubt her insurance covers that! Worked well though.


Wednesday 25th September

6.4 miles @ 7:31 pace

Had scheduled a session today, but calf still a little tight so rather than risk something major, I pushed that out to tomorrow. Really enjoyable run from Blackrock into town. Felt like I was floating along for most of it.


Thursday 26th September

14 miles @ 7:05 pace (including 4-3-2-1 PMP)

A decent session. After a series of missed/abandoned sessions I needed this one to go well. Particularly as it was a PMP session (based on a slower PMP), and I was hitting it on pretty fresh legs. Plan was to do it on way home from work, but things got off to a bad start when I was delayed in the office by about 2 hours. This meant heading out on the run at the same time I had planned to be home and eating my dinner. Was dark and grim out, and had developed a bit of a headcold over the previous day or so. Whilst I wanted to nail the session I didn’t want to worsen the headcold, so was keeping a close monitor on breathing, chest etc.

Plan was a tergat session (4-3-2-1 miles at marathon pace with 2 minutes recovery between each). Time permitted a one mile warm-up/cooldown which would bring it to a 12-13 mile session with a total of 10 miles at marathon pace.

The watch signalled the end of the warm-up mile in Blackrock Park and I upped the pace. Legs responded nicely, and pace ticking along well. First 3 miles went very easily, and I realised why when I turned around to run back on myself and I felt the wind that had been at my back. After that it was reps up and along Sandymount Strand, facing into the wind on the first half of each rep and with wind at my back on the second half. Decided to hammer the final mile to replicate race conditions as I try to outkick/overtake blockic in 16 days time

Summary of marathon pace segments as follows:

4 miles – avg. 6:30 (6:31, 6:39, 6:29, 6:22)
3 miles – avg. 6:37 (6:46, 6:39, 6:26)
2 miles – avg. 6:38 (6:43, 6:34)
1 mile – 6:17
Overall average: 6:32

I was targeting an average of 6:40, so that was a little better than I hoped for. Nice confidence booster if nothing else. A mile or so to Connolly station and then another 1.5 miles home from Lusk station, brought the total run up to 14 miles.

Maybe a few easy miles today/tomorrow. Hopefully 20 miles on Sunday with a fast finish.

TRR

BOOM, nice one. Ye nailed that session. Good to see you back on the upward curve.

Peckham

Friday 27th September
Rest. Had hoped to get out for 30 minutes, but things didn't work in my favour. Wasn't really bothered. Watched Spirit of the Marathon to get myself in the Chicago mindset.


Saturday 28th September

6.2 miles @ 7:10 pace

After a busy morning involving Ikea and grocery shopping I got out for 45 minutes whilst Junior napped. Enjoyable. Lots of leaves on the ground - the autumnal feel makes the marathon even closer!


Sunday 29th September

20 miles @ 7:10 pace

The last big one. Really wanted this to go well, so headed out nice and early before other stuff had a chance to get in the way. My race strategy is likely to involve starting slower than target pace and gradually speeding up during the race, so wanted to replicate this in training. Had a thought of doing 3 x 3 mile at gradually increasing pace, but realised last night that this might be a bit too much at this stage, so changed the plan to 3 x 2 miles at increasing pace (6:50-6:40-6:30).

Firstly needed to get 12 miles at easy pace done, and bounced my way out of the estate looking forward to a good run and a few episodes of Marathon Talk. Bad start when my MP3 player beeped after 1.5 miles to tell me the battery was dead. Stashed it in a hedge and continued along.

Two other parts of race practice were to wear the shoes that I plan to wear on race day (freshly out of the box for yesterday's run), and the race shorts with the gels pinned to them to get used to the feeling of the gels on my ass cheeks (does digger read my log?!) and then consuming said gels having been warmed up by said ass cheeks. All worked out well.

Miles ticked along nicely before getting to the stage when it was time to push the pace along a little. First two miles in 6:50? Nope, felt too easy (6:43, 6:46). Okay, so lets revise things a little and do the next two in just under 6:40 - nope, again felt too easy (6:32, 6:29). Had to really rethink things now. Four miles at that pace in the latter stage of a 20 mile run with only two weeks to go is a bit too rich for my liking, so dropped back to easy pace again. Finished strongly though with final two miles just under 7:10 pace.

So, that's that. Easy road to Chicago now. Probably 6 x 1 mile at LT pace on Wednesday, 13 miles next weekend and a few easy miles for a c.40 mile week.

Weekly totals
52 miles (50-55 planned)
5 runs (6 planned)
1 session
Long run: 20 miles

ThePiedPiper

Great to see you cruising again Peckham.. Great to get the hard part of the training finished with. See you in couple of weeks on the PB plane.